Author Topic: Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again  (Read 12103 times)

Offline Rhansen

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #15 on: May 17, 2007, 02:58:20 PM »
I had looked into scientology in the 90's but was turned off by their incessant need for money. It came across like a sales job. FWIW when reading through the wave I was struck by the similarities between the amygdala and (Hubbard's) "reactive mind".
Maybe Xenu was a lizzie ;)
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Offline PopHistorian

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #16 on: May 17, 2007, 03:19:52 PM »
Back to the topic of this thread.  We guess that Scientology is a scam and a diversion (beyond its 3D coping and calming techniques), and that Hubbard never actually believed in Xenu, alien souls, bases on Venus, aliens coming, and all the rest.  Clearly, with all their lawyers and front companies and now construction projects, they've accumulated quite a bit of wealth.  So, what is this big compound in the wilderness for?  

If it is truly a fortified vault and a survivalist camp, it sounds like Scientologists also believe in some kind of catastrophic scenario.  Thus, they may be taking pains to preserve Hubbard's writings and stockpiling survival gear in readiness to assert control over others on the post-apocalypse Earth.  Lot of that going around, I guess.  Anyone know anything about Scientology "beliefs" about end-times-like scenarios?
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Offline j0da

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #17 on: May 17, 2007, 05:04:34 PM »
Let's keep in mind they regard Hubbard's writtings as an "exportable spiritual liberation technology", which when the time is right will be transfered/shared with other races/planets/systems, with whole universe finally. Those folks belive it's most precious thing of all creation, which will bring "spiritual freedom" to the Earth and to the stars, thus they do many strange thins, like casting it in stone or metal plates.

Apart from some very veiled remarks from fringe scientologists I have never heard or read about impending cataclysm. What they belive is rather mass landing of alien space ships, decisive visit from the various factions inhabitting the universe. They suspect Hubbard's come back as well, probably in company of other "Loyal Officers" (kind of guardians of freedom) from Galactic Patrol. I think "Landing Zone Earth" is part of their "preparations".

Of course, all the above is what I remember from the period of sitting in Scientology books. What is REAL motivation behind CofS management decisions - it's hard to tell. They are no stupid and are probably connected with secret service organisations. They dig the vaults? Well, who doesn't nowadays? :D
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Offline mugatea

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #18 on: September 16, 2007, 12:14:10 AM »
I just feel that scientology is one of those things where people can pick on it because it's not yet immoral to do so, the same as picking on redheads or other things.  Dr phil (that guy from oprah) quizzed a scientology centre on a prank show.  But dare he do it to a christian or jewish centre?

I dont know nothing about scientology tbh.

Jamie

Offline Russ

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #19 on: September 16, 2007, 03:49:23 AM »
People say "Scientology" is very dangerous, but I think its our society in general which is very dangerous. If people weren't so stupid, things like Scientology wouldn't pose much of a threat. And I don't mean stupid as in, people should know better by default, but that they are programmed to be stupid, and things like Scientology just pick them up - if the two things exist (stupid people and organisations like Scientology), its inevitable, osit.
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Offline Heimdallr

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #20 on: September 16, 2007, 04:02:53 AM »
Quote from: Russ
If people weren't so stupid, things like Scientology wouldn't pose much of a threat.
But it does.  Therefore, your point is essentially moot.  It's like saying "If psychopaths didn't run the world, humans wouldn't be in the position they are in."  But they do.  And Scientology is an issue which deserves contemplation and discussion.  You can't just avoid that because of the reasons that Scientology enjoys popularity.
Do or do not.  There is no try.  - Yoda

Online Renaissance

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #21 on: September 16, 2007, 07:23:11 AM »
Quote from: mugatea
I just feel that scientology is one of those things where people can pick on it because it's not yet immoral to do so, the same as picking on redheads or other things.  Dr phil (that guy from oprah) quizzed a scientology centre on a prank show.  But dare he do it to a christian or jewish centre?

I dont know nothing about scientology tbh.

Jamie
Would you say the same about those who 'pick on' George Bush?  Scientology, like Christianity and Judaism, has all the hallmarks of a psychopathic institution.  Comparing it to something as benign and natural as 'redheads' denies its destructive and abnormal activities.  It abuses not only the people involved but also anyone who has a relationship with its members.  It's pretty odd that you'd make your statement while also saying you know nothing about Scientology.  Have you read this thread on opinions?  I think it could be of help if you haven't.  I also wonder from your comments if you have read Political Ponerology?  If not, I doubt there's much I could say about it that you haven't already come across - but just in case: IT'S THE MOST AWESOME BOOK EVER!!
Conscious faith is freedom. Emotional faith is slavery. Mechanical faith is foolishness. - Gurdjieff

Offline j0da

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2007, 08:16:29 AM »
It's easy to say people are stupid if they are joining the ranks of Scientology, but only when you are not familiar with the breadth and depth of information provided in Scio materials - partly in books written by Hubbard, but most importantly in ones written by his once close associates.

These were scio materials I read before/during my Scientology period (apart from Hubbard's "source" materials which were mandatory during courses):

-"Excalibur Revisited. The Akashic Book Of Truth" Geoffrey C. Filbert, 1982
-"SCIENTOLOGY. More Than A Cult ? From Crusade To Rip-Off; vol1" L.Kin, 1991 Edition Scien Terra
-"SCIENTOLOGY. A Handbook For Use; vol2" L.Kin, 1992 Edition Scien Terra
-"The Pied Pipers Of Heaven. Who calls the tune?; vol3" L.Kin, 1994 Edition Scien Terra
-"From the Bottom to the Top (The Way Out); vol4" L.Kin
-"Super Scio" Ken Ogger aka The Pilot, 1996
-"SELF CLEARING. A handbook for self enlightment" Ken Ogger, 1997
-"The Ghost Danse Articles" Ouran, 2001
-"How To Choose Your People" Ruth Minshull

What kind of ideas have I found therein?

-multiple universes arranged "vertically" in order of their density/complication/number of rules governing them
-multiple/alternative realities arranged "horizontally"existing besides each other
-"the fall" from higher universes
-reality manipulation by technological means as sensed during deja-vu

-past lives/alternative lives in paralell universes
-physical/"spiritual" implants and programs
-false/screen memories; false "past lives" memories
-spirit attachments
-activity monitoring attachments

-UFOs, non-terrestial beings of different kinds with different aims/purposes
-Earth planet control mechanisms maintained by superior, higly intelligent, spiritually and technologically advanced non-terrestial beings
-alien 3d presence/underground & undersea bases
-alien/black government cooperation

-control and manipulation of media/science/education
-corporate/banking/religious cartels
-falsification of history

-utterly evil entities/humans
-souled & not-souled human beings

-recapitulation/search and discovery of early traumas and experiences in order to become psychologically healthy
-gradual developement of human being starting with basics, through out more advanced techniques, ending with most profound understanding


Etc, etc - the list goes on and on. Looks pretty much like what we are all discussing here, ech? The point I want to make is that Scientology and it's ofshoots is NOT for the stupid, to the contrary - it's especially designed to con those most courageous and intelligent seekers. The trick in this case lies in providing MOST of factual/probable information/working techniques and presenting a FALSE KEY to making sense of all this stuff. Therefore, you get a twisted understanding of what really is going on and what to do about it. Classic COINTELPRO at it's best implementation.

It was very difficult for me to "empty my cup" upon my arrival here, for I had seemingly "working hypotesis" about almost everything I could think of. Only after a year or so of my being here and LOTS of reading I've been able to "reverse engineer" Scientology materials and put various pieces of data in places they really belong to.
"Only as a warrior can one survive the path of knowledge, because the art of a warrior is to balance the terror of being a man with the wonder of being a man." Carlos Castaneda's Don Juan's Teachings

Offline Russ

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #23 on: September 16, 2007, 08:41:23 AM »
I don't agree that its like saying "If psychopaths didn't run the world, humans wouldn't be in the position they are in." I mean stupidity/ignorance can be cured in a sense, or prevented, but you can't really cure a psychopath. Maybe I should have said, if people are educated properly, these kinds of things they would be less of a threat. Of course our schooling systems leave this kind of stuff out because they are designed to, a lot of them even encourage religions, but IMO it doesn't hurt to say it once in a while :)

I agree Scientology deserves contemplation and discussion, but I thought it was relevant to state why I thought these things start and why they are perpetual.
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Offline Russ

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #24 on: September 16, 2007, 09:10:43 AM »
j0da, I know what you are saying, but with the right knowledge/education can't you read the books and not "fall" for it? I know it isn't as easy as it sounds and that it is even implemented from the day we are born, but most intelligent seekers are still ignorant about a lot of things, else they wouldn't be seekers, and thats the way we're supposed to be. So you have people out there who are unaware of what is the best way to think and act, they are ripe for manipulation. They want information but don't know how to tell what is disinfo, don't know how to experiment rather than indulge in belief. By stupid, I don't mean not intelligent, I think intelligent people can be stupid, because they can be ignorant like anyone.
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Offline Laura

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #25 on: September 16, 2007, 10:56:08 AM »
Quote from: j0da
It's easy to say people are stupid if they are joining the ranks of Scientology, but only when you are not familiar with the breadth and depth of information provided in Scio materials - partly in books written by Hubbard, but most importantly in ones written by his once close associates.



 Looks pretty much like what we are all discussing here, ech? The point I want to make is that Scientology and it's ofshoots is NOT for the stupid, to the contrary - it's especially designed to con those most courageous and intelligent seekers. The trick in this case lies in providing MOST of factual/probable information/working techniques and presenting a FALSE KEY to making sense of all this stuff. Therefore, you get a twisted understanding of what really is going on and what to do about it. Classic COINTELPRO at it's best implementation.
I have to agree.  

Something I don't talk much about is the fact that, before we left Florida, I was contacted by several Scientologists who were interested in my work after reading the St. Pete Times article about me, and then reading The Wave.  What is interesting is that these people were really high level... I mean, like "OT 8".  It was all very hush hush.  I made an agreement that I would never reveal their names, and I haven't and won't because they were very decent to me.  

Anyway, the upshot of the whole thing was that they had doubts that Hubbard had "the whole banana" after all and they really wanted to know what was the "deepest level secrets" kind of thing.  They kept pointing out that what the Cs say was so similar - in some ways - to things that Hubbard had come up with in his periods of "enlightenment" or whatever.   They just felt that the organization had started to go down hill at some point, had lost its way, and the highest level stuff was being restricted and/or twisted for some nefarious purposes.

It was pointed out to me that Scientology has a very good record of getting people off the streets, off drugs, cleaning up their bodies, working diligently, and so on, and I agreed that this was a very worthy activity.  What was missing, as far as I could see based on the data,  was the element of free will.  People were just exchanging one form of bondage for another.  

Well, these people agreed with that assessment more or less, and pointed out that most people need a strong structure and leader.  

Well, they have a point, don't they?  If 50 % of the people on the planet might be OPs, yeah, they need structure.  But the structure they need would be an STO one - if that is even possible, which I don't think it is.  Maybe a better way to put it would be "utilizing STS to move in the direction of STO aims."  

But that is not entirely what scientology is doing, I don't think.  Based on information I was given by the above mentioned individuals, the church has some really dark affiliations at this point and you can bet that whatever structure and leadership is there has nefarious intentions, ultimately.

Anyway, to make this story a bit shorter, what ended up happening is that this group of people actually paid me (they would not take my time without paying me) to instruct them.    They very much wanted to leave the church but they could not because of family considerations (they would have been separated from their children who were lifetime members and totally inculcated, etc), yet they wanted to know more, to BE more.  So, I instructed them, we had a very satisfactory relationship; I had a lot of respect for them and they for me, and when we were getting ready to leave the U.S., they brought me a beautiful farewell gift and thanked me profusely for enriching their lives.

Never, at any point, did any of them try to persuade me that Scientology was "the way."  In fact, they knew that, ultimately, it petered out and could not take people to higher levels of knowledge and awareness, that it was basically a dead end.  They also began to think that Scientology was really a structure for OPs and that the new "head" was most definitely a psychopath.  But of course, they had to keep all this to themselves.

In the end, I concluded that Scientology is no better and no worse than most any other church and if a person who is taken in by it has that "spark" within, as the people I was dealing with obviously did, it will direct them to a "way" at some point just as happens with anyone in any other social/cultural/religious trap.
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Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
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Offline mugatea

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #26 on: September 16, 2007, 12:07:44 PM »
ok maybe my anaology with redheads wasnt the best but scientology (whether its a good thing or not is not my point) gets knocked down by folks and religions cause its an easy target.  I'm not saying that they are wrong, just why dont they do it to other religions - they dont cause they are cowards.

Jamie

Offline Laura

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #27 on: September 16, 2007, 04:02:03 PM »
Quote from: mugatea
ok maybe my anaology with redheads wasnt the best but scientology (whether its a good thing or not is not my point) gets knocked down by folks and religions cause its an easy target.  I'm not saying that they are wrong, just why dont they do it to other religions - they dont cause they are cowards.

Jamie
They don't do it to those "other religions" because they are old and most of the power structure is oriented to using them to control people and that control is crucial to those in power.

I actually think there is a lot to Scientology and that is why it was so regularly attacked in the early days.  However, it survived ... and it has now, I believe, been co-opted.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline 3D Resident

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #28 on: September 17, 2007, 01:13:30 PM »
I did a lot of research into the methods of Scientology earlier this year. I watched several very long online videos that expose the ways that Scientology attempts to brainwash people, and I can say it was VERY disturbing. There's an online book you can read about one woman's account of being taken in by Scientology (revealing her incredible naivete) and how she was forced to divorce herself from her family for "eternity". Tens of thousands of dollars later, and many years, she finally escaped. However it damaged a large part of her for life, I believe. The link to this book unfortunately eludes me now. During the account that was given, it was revealed how children were treated as nothing more than "small adults" and were not given any love or attention. They were placed in a horrible run-down building with absolutely NO stimulation whatsoever and just given food and clothes and shelter. They didn't even have proper beds. Any child with that kind of "upbringing" is going to become a seriously disturbed adult.

Now I know that this account was probably one of the worst cases, and most Scientology "camps" are probably nowhere near this bad, but it does give a glimpse into what is POSSIBLE when certain ideas are hijacked and ponerized by the psychopaths, which definitely includes Hubbard himself. Basically, to have those defenceless children treated in that manner was nothing less than evil, or pure STS behaviour if you like.
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Offline Russ

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Scientology compound/airstrip/vault/landing site in the news again
« Reply #29 on: September 19, 2007, 05:55:55 AM »
Quote from: Laura
Well, they have a point, don't they?  If 50 % of the people on the planet might be OPs, yeah, they need structure.  But the structure they need would be an STO one - if that is even possible, which I don't think it is.  Maybe a better way to put it would be "utilizing STS to move in the direction of STO aims."
Maybe thats what OPs need, STS structure to learn about STO, maybe they aren't ready for an STO scructure? To operate without a heirarchy might be incompatable with it.

Quote from: Laura
But that is not entirely what scientology is doing, I don't think.  Based on information I was given by the above mentioned individuals, the church has some really dark affiliations at this point and you can bet that whatever structure and leadership is there has nefarious intentions, ultimately.
Who knows how these things start, even. L Ron Hubbard might not have had any intention of setting up Scientology until influenced in some way. So these people could have been there from the beginning. Maybe they realised that the current world religions are losing followers, and they needed to come up with something more "upbeat" and "modern" quickly, before there was nothing left to take over the jobs of Christianity etc. Who knows what might happen if people don't have religion forced onto them when they are younger?

Quote from: Laura
They very much wanted to leave the church but they could not because of family considerations (they would have been separated from their children who were lifetime members and totally inculcated, etc), yet they wanted to know more, to BE more.
That "rooting" effect in Scientology is scary, its like being on a sticky surface where if you want to take a step forwards you have to rip your legs off and fall flat on your face and die. Ok maybe thats a bit harsh... a bit... but its something they seem to be doing to ensure Scientology is forced into a family scructure (which as I'm sure you know all families have quite a high potential to turn into a more STO orientated structure than a business etc). Forcing it in this way establishes a STS structure even to families, because they are operating under Scientology's rules, and since every child is born into this situation, this structure and system can only grow. Which reminds me a lot of how the other world religions have prospered.

Quote from: Laura
In the end, I concluded that Scientology is no better and no worse than most any other church and if a person who is taken in by it has that "spark" within, as the people I was dealing with obviously did, it will direct them to a "way" at some point just as happens with anyone in any other social/cultural/religious trap.
Yeah if they want to alienate themselves from the friends and families they have in scientology. Fair enough this can happen in any church/religion but it seems to be one of the stronger variants of trapping people. Its not that relaxed, it pulls people in, further and further. I think it is one of the worst religions to fall into, from the perspective of freedom.
Discontentment is the first step towards progression.