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Announcer: This is radio free Signs of the Times...broadcasting into the heart of occupied America.Henry (H): Welcome to this edition of the Signs of the Times podcast. Tonight, joining Scotty and me, we have Laura Knight-Jadczyk. Many of you come to the podcast through the Signs of Times page and following the links from the Signs page you will have seen that the Signs is part of a larger network of websites that includes cassiopaea.org and quantumfuture.net. The Signs of the Times website covers mostly current events, political information, world affairs, earth changes - information that we think people need to know if they're going to be able to look at the world objectively.Our Signs of the Times is in a sense the result of many years of previous work by Laura and Ark. Laura's life is pretty well detailed in the cassiopaea.org website and Ark's work is available for people to read on the quantumfuture.net website. So, for our listeners who may only know the Signs of the Times, this week we wanted to sit down with Laura and talk about her other work; the work that made it all happen that's part of the cassiopaea.org site. Because those who come because we have a very strong position about what is happening in the world, and who may have a political background, we know that some of our readers are a little surprised by some the topics that are discussed on our other websites and so we wanted to get into this in a little more detail to show you that the same critical spirit that's brought to the Signs of the Times informs all of the work of the Quantum Future Group. You can't really separate Signs of the Times from this other work that's proceeded it and that is going on at the same time. The Cassiopaean experiment is unique as far as we know in its approach to science and mysticism. At the same time, it can lead to some misconceptions because of the way certain terms have been co-opted and used by New Age people. So, we'd like to get into a little discussion with Laura tonight about what makes the Cassiopaean experiment unique.Scott (S): So Laura, what makes the Cassiopaean experiment unique?Laura (L): Probably, pure unadulterated cussedness on my part.[Laughing]That's said with a little bit of humor, but it's actually, in a certain sense, true. I probably ought give a little background on how it came about. Many people write to me and tell me, oh, we're going to go out an buy a ouija board, or we've already bought a ouija board and we're going to sit down, or I'm going to sit down, and I'm going to attempt to contact the Cassiopaeans or my spirit guides or whatever, and I generally have a very mixed reaction to such questions or declarations. On the one hand, I don't want to give the impression that I think that I'm the only one who can do it, but on the other hand I very much want people to understand exactly what it is they're getting into and to be properly prepared and to have the skills that are necessary for engaging in any such so called spirit communication. And in this case, I'm not even sure that spirit communication is entirely accurate.H: Well, as I understand your work over the last, let's say thirty years, you were fascinated by the human unconscious and human intuition, and you were attempting to find a way to tap into those 'aha!' moments that we have, but to do it in a way that was more regular; something that wasn't kind of haphazard as answers to questions appearing in dreams and that kind of thing. You were trying to find a way where the link to this part of ourselves that produces these unexpected answers to questions that we have, could be stabalized and some sort of a permanent link could be formed to it.L: Well, that's part of it. I think what really stimulated me was that I had read so much literature, so much material that indicated strongly that there was certainly another reality that interacts with our own in mysterious ways. The problem seems to be, of course, that it was very unstable, it was iffy, it was not subject to being put under a microscope or weight or measured, it was like mercury; you see it there and it's glistening and vibrating like a little liquid ball on a table, and then you go to try to pick it up and it breaks into a thousand pieces and scatters in all directions.Probably the best way to explain the kinds of things that I was thinking many years ago, oh, twenty... fifteen, twenty years ago, was an incident that occurred at the time of the explosion of the space shuttle... Challenger was it? H: Yeah.L: Where all of the astronauts, including the school teacher, were killed. And of course, I lived in Florida at the time and I'd had an interesting dream that night, and I had had many prophetic dreams throughout my life, and sometimes the absolute mundane nature of these prophetic dreams was really puzzling. It was like, why would the subconscious bother to send a signal about something so ordinary, something that portended nothing and just simply happened as it was dreamed. A specific example was I dreamed one night about seeing a particular dog lying in a particular way in a hole he had dug, in a sandy driveway, and the next day I visited a friend and next door was a sandy driveway with the exact same dog lying in the hole he had dug in the sand. Nothing extraordinary happened, there was no mysterious experience, there was no significant event of any sort. It was dream a night before about a specific dog in a specific position, in a specific type of hole and there it was.H: So, its meaning was really nothing more than just showing that there was something more to this reality than we're used to accepting in our day-to-day life.L: Yeah. Assuming... Yeah, that's the only meaning I can give to it because that sort of thing happened so frequently; that produced in me a powerful curiosity about what kind of reality it was that was interacting with our own that could give these kinds of clues and hints or previews even. And getting back to the time of the shuttle disaster, once again I had a dream: I'd dreamed about being in a place where it was a very mysterious background - like trees without leaves on them, cold and dreary - and there was kind of like a voice over that indicated to me that the scenery belonged to the Edgar Allen Poe story, The Fall of the House of Usher. The next part of the dream was... I was standing with my children looking over the tops of these winter bare trees and in the distance we saw a curling tornado type of cloud - a curling cloud - coming down from the sky, and I knew as I was watching it that it was death, and that's the only way I can explain it. And I said to my children, in the dream, what we're seeing is death. People are dying, but don't worry, it can't touch us. And then I woke up.Having dreamt about what I perceived to be as a tornado, I had no other associations to interpret a curling cloud coming down from the sky that portended death, other than a tornado, so I wondered if there had a been a tornado in the night somewhere that had killed other people at some distance. So, I got up and turned on the radio to listen to the news, and the first thing I heard was that the shuttle launch was in its final countdown. So I hurried up and called my children, and got the binoculars, and went out into our yard to watch in a proper direction to see if we could catch a glimpse of the shuttle going up. And we went out there, and it was of course winter, and we were surrounded by oak trees which were bare and none of that made any real impression on me at the moment, it was only when I saw - I had the binoculars and I was watching in the right area - and I saw the flash and I immediately tried to steady the binoculars to see what had happened because I thought it was the staging of the rocket booster; when the bottom part of the rocket falls off. And I got the image in the binoculars and there was the exact curling cloud that I had seen in my dream, and I had a very strange sensation. And the next thing that happened was we were listening to the radio through the window and the announcer came on and began to talk about the problems that were happening with the shuttle, and then I knew right then that there was a serious problem. What didn't occur to me was the meaning of the Fall of the House of Usher until later, and it was only later when there were many discussions about what may or may not have happened - and there was a lot of speculation that they were still alive when the shuttle itself plunged into the ocean, and they may not have died until some period of time had passed. And of course, the theme of the Edgar Allen Poe story, The Fall of the House of Usher, is premature burial; being buried alive.So this event, which was really quite shocking and it was... a number of people died violently, it was pretty horrible, it was shocking to the country, it was shocking to me, it was shocking to my children. There I was standing with my children when we saw the space shuttle blow up and people died. That was not what you'd call a really pleasant experience. But what really drove me crazy was, well, here I had this dream that gave me some very accurate symbols, although I had no tools with which to interpret them. I didn't have a dictionary that said, oh, that curling cloud means space shuttle and I didn't have a dictionary that says, oh, when you get the voice over that says Fall of the House of Usher, it means somebody's going to fall into the ocean and a shuttle, and they're going to die slowly. So, I didn't have a dictionary, I didn't have any interpretation manual, but I had accurate symbols. So I asked myself myself, what is the point? Is this some mysterious prophetic ability? Do people have these mysterious prophetic abilities and are they generally like this? Is it that we really can't interpret them? What is the point of having such an ability if it doesn't do anybody any good? If I called NASA on the phone - if I had had a dictionary that told me the Space Shuttle is going to blow up, the people are going to die - and I got on the phone and I called NASA, I mean, can we imagine what would have happened.H: You probably would have been taken as a crank call until it exploded and...L: And then I would have been arrested.[Laughing]H: And then you would have been arrested.L: For knowing something they didn't know. So that sort of thing, it makes you think of the, what is it? Cassandra? ...issue, which is, somebody who can prophesi but they're doomed to no one ever believing them [H: Yeah] which would have to be terribly frustrating. But nevertheless, I realized that despite the fact that many so-called scientists that say that there is no such thing as psychic ability or sci phenomena etc, that it's all fake, or it's just totally coincidental, my own experience has shown me that this is absolutely not true because throughout my life I'd had these kinds of dreams, and here finally at this one point in time there was one that meant something significant, and it meant significant in a big way. It wasn't just a dog in a hole dug in sandy driveway. It was a space shuttle blowing up. So the question I had was, okay, this is real, it really happens, it really exists, now, what's the point and what can we do with it? Well of course, I'm not the first person that has ever asked those questions. There are departments in universities that have been set up to study those questions. There have been elaborate experiments created and carried out over long periods of time with lots of volunteers and probably people a whole heck of a lot more psychic than I am. Nevertheless, it was a very powerful question inside me, so I wondered if just on my own, if I could do something, some little experimentation, find out something about it, could I strengthen it, could I enhance it, could I do something within safe parameters that would produce something that was useful, not only for myself, but perhaps for other people.So I decided first of all, before I even tried to do anything like that, I ought to gather some data. I wanted to just find out what the parameters were and I wanted to do things that were more or less blind, and at the same time I wanted to do things that didn't have any emotional connection to them because I didn't want any emotional issues to come into play. So, what I devised at the very beginning was something where you could have an immediate feedback which was in this case, dog races. The reason is that, they have dog races in Tampa every day. Probably every day of the year. At least every week I'm sure, but there's a season for dog races and there is always a column in the paper where the dogs are listed and when the races are going to run and the odds that are on them and so on and so forth. So, I wanted to see if I could pick the winning dogs in dog races and of course it had nothing to do with betting anything because I certainly wasn't going to go to the dog races and place any money on them, I was just going to keep track of the names of the dogs and I was going to select winners and I was going to do it over a long period of time and keep records. So I did that. I did it, oh, for probably six months I predicted dog races and then I graduated to horse races and never at any time did I ever bet on a race, but I picked dogs and I picked horses.H: And did you end up having a better than statistically probable...L: No.H: No.L: No. If I had just randomly picked them, because I did also go through a period just to see what the difference would be - I went through a period where I randomly selected dogs and horses and it just seemed to be six of one, half a dozen of the other. I mean, I did as well randomly picking them as I did deliberately picking them and trying to see if there was any feeling or sensation I got from reading the name of the dog, which was what I was going for, to see if there was anything about symbolism that came through in that way. It basically was a complete flop.[Laughing]But, I was not discouraged because I continued to have dreams that were... [Laughing]H: But not about the dog races.L: Oh no, well actually at one point I did dream about a lottery number and it did win and I did bet...[Laughing]So, I was pretty happy about that. But even that dream was very strange. I dreamed that... in my dream I asked someone to go to the store and buy me a pack of cigarettes. In the dream they went to the store, they came back with the pack of cigarettes and they said, the cigarettes cost something like 3.79, or something like that. I don't remember the exact number. And I said, well, that's outrageous, and that was the end of the dream. H: That was a long time ago, huh?L: That was... Yeah, it was a long time ago. That was absolutely the whole dream. There was nothing else to it. It was just a request for somebody to buy me cigarettes. They went to get the cigarettes, came back, and told me what they had cost. Well as it happened, that very morning when I woke up right after having this dream, I discovered that I only had two cigarettes left in my pack in the house. So, I asked my then husband to go to the store and get me a pack of cigarettes, and he dutifully went out the door to go get me a pack of cigarettes, and as he was backing out of the driveway I suddenly remembered the dream and I ran to the door and I said, "Play these three numbers on the daily." They had a pick three game. I said, "Play these three numbers," and I shouted them out across the driveway and then I forgot about it because, I mean, you're talking about a dollar, and you're talking about like a daily win that's not going to be an enormous amount of money anyway, so it's certainly not something to get stressed out over and as it turned out later that evening I was sitting at the television watching the news and they announced the winners for the pick three game, and it was my three numbers but in a different order.[Laughing]So I ran to ask my husband, "Did you play my numbers?" because I was thinking, oh god, I had my fingers crossed. I hope you boxed this bet. So I found him and I asked him, "Did you play them?" He said, "Yes, and I boxed them and bought three tickets." So I said "Yes!" So I had a nice little chunk of change out of three tickets of boxed bets. So these kinds of things were part of my normal life, and we're not talking about any kind of major, from my point of view, major psychic experiences. We're not talking about somebody going into a shivery state and their eyeballs rolling up in their head and they have some kind of vision and say, "Oh, I see you going to a foreign land. There you're going to meet a talk dark stranger and...", anything weird like that, which I would consider to be a really outstanding psychic experience. I wasn't having anything like that. I was having phones ring and know who was calling. I was thinking about somebody and having them show up at the door even if I hadn't seen them for six months. I was having dreams about extremely mundane things that happened exactly as I dreamt them the next day. That sort of thing. So I knew that there was something puzzling and I discovered, as I said, from my experiments with picking dogs and picking horses that that sort of thing just really didn't go anywhere, and that was very puzzling to me.H: Well, there are two things you've said so far that we said earlier - something about scientists and scientists disregarding these things - but I think we should also point out, because psychic phenomena, this kind of thing, is really seen by most people as being completely unscientific, but there are scientists who are studying it. There are scientists who take it very very seriously. And there are also scientists who talk about these other realities that you have mentioned being perhaps the source of these experiences. So just to clarify for our listeners, yes there is scientific interest in this.L: Absolutely. My husband is a scientist and he's definitely interested in it, and he definitely listens to me when I have dreams. [Laughing]H: But this gets into what makes the Cassiopaean experiment unique is this blend of the science on the one hand, and the openness to these strange experiences, anomalies, intuition, psychic experiences on the other, and attempting in the long run to understand these things that we consider to be completely weird today, to eventually understand them scientifically.L: Yes, and that was another thing that I was doing; another line of work that I was following at the same time, because there I was on the one hand; it took me, what, ten minutes a day to do my little scientific experiment with the dogs or the horses. I had a lot of time left in the day obviously, aside from my normal duties as mother of children and keeper of the house and chief cook and bottle washer and so forth. So, I was of course reading a lot and I had been reading this kind of literature literally since I was about twelve or thirteen years old. Back when I was thirteen there was an elderly gentleman who was a friend of the family; his mother had died and all of her furniture and books and things had been shipped to him, which he then set up in his Florida style of veranda type home out in the woods on the Gulf of Mexico. And it was really kind of interesting, because the mother had had all of this very ornate Victorian type hand carved furniture with horse hair upholstery and bookcases with glass doors that opened with little brass keys and so forth, and these book cases were full of proceedings of the British Society for Psychical Research: an extraordinary collection of rare books on all kinds of psychic phenomena. She must have been a real enthusiast, because I think everything that had ever been printed up to that point in time that was available, she had in her collection, and I was given full access to it when I was thirteen years old. I read every book. So this was something that had been going on for many years. So there I was, studying and reading and also at the same time I was doing hypnotherapy which was another interesting line of development because I was curious at some point if using hypnosis could enhance psychic ability. Of course, I was curious of using hypnosis to enhance a lot of things. I remember back in college a girlfriend and I wondered if we could use hypnosis to change eye color or increase bust size.[Laughing]H: And...L: Yes we tried it. No it didn't work. But nevertheless, we tried all kinds of different variations of suggestion techniques and guided meditation techniques. We did a lot of experimentation along that line and we found a lot of things about hypnosis through these kinds of experiments. And of course, we had friends and family that volunteered to be subjects for some of these experiments, and we basically had a lot of fun even if on occasion we were dealing with some fairly serious issues for some people. Looking back on it now, at my excitement with this very novel tool, I mean, I was very young, I was very excited about having something that was so much fun. And I will tell you that one of the very first hypnosis sessions I ever did was a past life regression. A friend of mine in college wanted to find out about his past lives. One of the reasons he wanted to find out was of course he was in love with a young lady who did not return his affections, so this was the setup from a start, but it was really funny. So, he wanted to know if she had been his true love in another life because naturally he was going to produce this information as his opening gambit. [Laughing]H: You may not remember me but...L: Yeah, but I was your husband last time around, so you want to give it another go here? So I agreed, because this was going to be fun and we had two or three other friends sitting around in the living room as we did the session and the guy was a very good subject. Probably one of the best I've ever worked with. He later went on to bigger and better things but he went under very quickly, very deeply, and very easily, and I gave him the suggestions to go back to that point in space time that was of particular significance. I can't remember the exact suggestions I made at the time, but basically I got him back to a past life and I asked him, "Where are you and what do you see?" which is generally one of the first things I ask somebody is, "Where are you and what do you see?" first, and then try to find out where the person is and he said, "Well, I'm waiting for this fire to get started," and I said, "Where are you?" "Well, I'm in my cabin," and I said, "Where is your cabin?" And then he acted a little impatient, like who am I and why am I asking such stupid questions. [Laughing] Obviously his cabin is in New Brunswick. I was such an ignorant person at the time you know, I didn't... New Brunswick where? [Laughing] There are several places named New Brunswick. Which one? Well, obviously at that point in time there was only one New Brunswick, so this went on with a few exchanges and I found out that he was like a fur trapper; lived all alone in this cabin in the woods and I kept asking questions. He kept getting more and more irritated with me and finally I asked him, "Why do live you all alone, don't you like people?" and he says, "No! And as a matter of fact, I wish you'd go away." [Laughing] And everybody in the room was just holding their sides trying not to make any noise because they're all just dying Laughing at this really, really funny exchange that I was having with this guy. So, it was pretty funny. We never did find his lost love in the past life and he didn't marry her anyway, he married someone else, but that was just a funny example of how enthusiastic I was with this tool and trying to find out what it could do and what it couldn't do.As I grew older, of course, I became much more serious about it and later when I was working with actual clients I was not so light-hearted about it because, of course, they would come to me because they had problems - they didn't come to me because they wanted to snag a chick. So, it was quite different. But in any event, there I was doing hypnotherapy and the thing I noticed about people under hypnosis was that they didn't seem to be a whole heck of lot more psychic than they where when they were awake either. So, I was really striking out on all my little experiments trying to find the source and the well spring of psychic ability; the well spring of this bleed through of this other reality. I wasn't getting anywhere, but then I was continuing to have dreams. I was convinced from mountains of literature that many unusual things had occurred to many people down through space and time and I wanted to pin this thing down darn it. So, that was where I was and then something rather unusual happened.H: We're going to take a short break.[Musical interlude]H: So, you were just talking about this experience many years ago when you were beginning hypnotherapy with someone who was interested in going back to his past lives in order to seduce somebody. [Laughing] The question of past lives is of course very controversial because we have part of the planet that insists that we live once and after that it's finished, and then we have vast, probably of billions of people, who also think we live many times and believe in reincarnation, and it's very difficult for somebody who is in the here and now and has no recollection of past lives to kind of decide one way or another on the topic. And one also assumes that because we're dealing with death it's not really something that we can have an easy answer for, but what are your thoughts on past life from your experiences with hypnosis?L: Well, first of all I have to say that I was... even though I had read all of this vast amount of literature and I'd had psychic experiences, and I was convinced that there was something to what we'd call psi phenomena, I wasn't yet going to decide what it was. I needed more information, more data and I didn't believe - and I use the term believe deliberately. I didn't believe in reincarnation, I was very curious about it. There was a lot of material that suggested that it was a reality and then there was at the same time a lot of material, particularly written by religious types who would go to great lengths to debunk it and to try to prove it was a deception of the devil, so to say. And then there were the scientific types who go to great lengths to debunk and try to prove that the individual who may have shown some knowledge of another time, that they shouldn't have known, that they could have gotten it some other way. So, you had the deception of the devil and then you had unconscious assimilation of knowledge that later came out under hypnosis, and then the people of course who said it was definitely a reality and they believed it no matter what either of these two groups said.H: And for you as an American, I would think that being raised American, most Americans, the vast majority of Americans being Christian will have a priori that reincarnation doesn't exist. Just because it's part and parcel of the culture.L: Well, I didn't have too much of a firm opinion in that respect, because like I said, I started reading about these things when I was thirteen. Thirteen is a fairly impressionable age, so at the age when I could have gone either way, instead of reading Catholic missals I was reading the proceedings of the British Society of Psychical Research, so I had a little bit different imprinting at that period of my life when interests and opinions about certain things do get a lot of input. But still, I was also influenced on the other side by the religious teachings and I was also influenced by the scientific teachings, because my grandfather was an engineer. He's very scientific and in our family science was considered to be a very respectable point of view, and actually was a little more respectable than religion. Although religion in some members of the family was more respectable than science. Yeah, a little conflict, not unlike any other family. But as far as reincarnation went, I decided at some point that I was going to try to find out.So once again, I turned to my pool of subjects which was, oh, twenty people maybe, and then here I'm talking about in the earlier days and doing a lot of past life regressions, and at that time of course I was using more or less the same formula that was used in the Bridy Murphy experiments. It was not a very refined formula but it was good enough, and fairly effective. And what I found was, that there were people who at one session would describe a past life and give many details. They would give names, they would give places, they would give relationships, they would talk about their experiences and so on and so forth, and then six months later I would hypnotise the same person and I would go for another past life. There'd been probably other sessions in between and I would go for another one and they would come up with another life time that just happened to be at the same time period or overlapping the time period where they had described a first past life, which of course, is absolutely impossible - well, not absolutely impossible depending on what theory you're relying on, but under the theory of the normal idea that say a soul incarnates into a body and then it incarnates into another body, then into another etc etc, it would be a little bit difficult for this person to be having two lives simultaneously. Well then of course, along came Seth and multiple realities, so that problem was supposedly solved, but I still wasn't quite convinced of that because I would have a subject who was a maid in one life, female, and then at the same time she was a soldier in an army somewhere at the same time period.H: In your work with the Cassiopaeans have you ever posed the question to them, whether one can incarnate in two bodies in overlapping time periods?L: Yes, because... and their answer came back that it depended on what you called reincarnation and how you define time and how you define realities. [Laughing] But that's getting way ahead of us because remember we're still back in the seventies right now and I was still experimenting trying to get information. I wanted to find something that was... Frankly, I wanted to find something that was convincing to me and didn't find anything. That was the thing, I didn't find anything that convinced me that any of it was real. I still felt that there was a possibility and I was leaving it open, but my own experimental work did not convince me.H: Back then, were you using this past life regression in a therapeutic way or was it....L: No, no, this was being done purely for information gathering. Purely for... I'm sure it was therapeutic accidentally. At the time nobody... If there was anybody doing past life as a therapy it wasn't widely known. I think maybe Edith Fiore was possibly beginning her work in that sort of thing at that point, but it wasn't widely known. Such books hadn't been produced and so basically past life regression was more done for the sake of curiosity or to provide data for researchers to try to determine if reincarnation was or was not a fact. So, I didn't get anything that convinced me, but I continued to leave it open. So that was why, when Edith Fiore came along with her past life therapy, I was quite interested in using it as a therapeutic tool. There was also a psychiatrist, I believe in Toronto, Canada, Joel... well I don't remember his name.H: We'll find it out and put it on the Signs page for those people who might be interested.L: Yeah. But anyway, he was a psychiatrist and he was using past life therapy very effectively. So, I was reading this material and I was realizing that there was more that could be done with past life work than I had at that point imagined. And I began to incorporate it as a therapeutic tool, because by this time the only time I was doing past life therapy or past life work was when somebody specifically requested it. It was more for, as you would say, it was more for entertainment purposes. It was not being done therapeutically. So, most of at my work with hypnosis was people who had problems, people who had allergies; they were stressed or they had different kinds of problems that were very annoying to them and there were techniques that had been developed to deal with those. Desensitization techniques or guided imagery techniques to help them to overcome fears or phobias and so on and so forth. So now, we had the introduction of past life therapy and I thought, geeze, this is the greatest thing since sliced bread. This is really cool, let me try this. So, I began to experiment with that and the results were really nothing short of amazing. A person who had a, for example, a phobia that I had worked with several times trying to desensitize them through standard guided imagery techniques, could be regressed to a past life where an event had occurred that initiated the phobia which they then carried over into the current life, and once you'd taken them to the past life, walk them through the process, walk them through the therapeutic modality of dealing with the issue, they came back and presto, phobia was gone. You didn't have to spent several sessions of guided imagery. But then, as I thought about it, what was past life therapy if it wasn't guided imagery, except that as the therapist I was no longer doing the guiding or creating the images or even assisting in the images; I was letting the client do that.H: It was coming from the client or the patient himself or herself.L Yeah. So my idea was that, well obviously, this is probably why this is working so well. It may not be because a past life actually occurred and the incident actually occurred, but that the individual is being allowed to create their own drama, their own scenario to work through, their problem themselves from what's inside them, and that's what's making it more effective.So essentially, I didn't care if past lives were real or not. At this point I no longer cared if reincarnation was real or not. I had gotten to the point where I really didn't care anymore. I only cared that what I was doing was helping these people I was working with.H: And when you were able to, in a sense, cure people's phobias of things, was this long lasting as far as you know?L: It was done.H: It was done.L: It was done. I mean they might get a new thing later on down the road, [Laughing] but that one was gone, or... and I mean, it's like body work. You start getting a little body work done, you have places that hurt that you didn't know hurt, and once they start fixing those then the other places start feeling jealous. They want to get work done too. [Laughing]And then you become so accustomed to feeling perfect that anytime any little thing comes along, you gotta go back to the therapist. Hey, do some body work on me quick, I've got a glitch. So, it was kind of like that. So I didn't care whether past lives actually existed or not, whether it was a reality or not. I only cared it helped these clients and it was interesting and I wasn't going for data anymore. I had long ago lost any interest in that because I'd found so much data that was conflicting. I just didn't see any point in it. So, I was just going for helping the person to create the drama that - or facilitating them to create the drama that helped them work through their issue. And that was that. And whether or not this scenario that they described was or had been true was immaterial to me. But then something really strange happened.S: Well unfortunately, that's all the time we have for this week. But tune in next week and Laura will continue her fascinating story.So, tune in next week for the strangest reincarnation story you'll ever hear. And as always, if you'd like to read some more about the topics we discussed today you can visit our page at www.signs-of-the-times.org. And thanks for joining us, and we'll see you next week.