The Real World > History
Fomenko's "New Chronology"
turing_machine:
Hi all,
Newbie tryng to "relaunch" this thread, here!
I propose a statistical analysis of Homer's Illiad.
But I'm no statistician, and no historian. If that has any use here, I'm a biology PhD.
Reading Iman Wilken's "Where Troy Once stood", I felt very unsettled. Is this guy laughable, saying Troy is in England, or are we all mistaken since so many millenia? I'm open-minded but frustrated, because:
Wilkens followers may say "he's right, of course, let's move on from that accepted starting point", but why blindly trust strangers who're not scholars stating 100% of the scholars are wrong (just don't ask why, we have no time for that).
Wilkens arguments do convince me, they're logical and compelling, but maybe his facts are wrong, or cherry-picked. Or maybe other logical and compelling arguments prove Troy is even more likely in Turkey, but Wilkens did not mention these.
It takes a specialist to sift through those two possibilities.
The scholar experts I contacted refused to counter Wilken's arguments or facts, but invariably insisted he is wrong (just don't ask why, we have no time for that).
Wilkens himself refuses to answer my (well-intended) e-mails since years.
So I thought of this:
Let's do some stats.
I don't have the time for that ;D but maybe you do, please let me know. I have a way to produce an OBJECTIVE assessment of the Troy in UK hypothesis. No need to trust someone's word, no need to even have an opinion beforehand, and -yieeha!- no need to know anything about history or archeology or esoterism ... But you need time, googlemaps and stats.
I first post this to probe if anybody has any interest in this out there (while typing the rest offline)
My next post will explain the method exactly.
bye
Vulcan59:
Hi turing_machine,
Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, how they found the cass material, and how much of the work here they have read. Thanks.
Nomad:
--- Quote from: turing_machine on October 31, 2009, 11:02:30 PM ---Reading Iman Wilken's "Where Troy Once stood", I felt very unsettled. Is this guy laughable, saying Troy is in England, or are we all mistaken since so many millenia? I'm open-minded but frustrated, because:
Wilkens followers may say "he's right, of course, let's move on from that accepted starting point", but why blindly trust strangers who're not scholars stating 100% of the scholars are wrong (just don't ask why, we have no time for that).
Wilkens arguments do convince me, they're logical and compelling, but maybe his facts are wrong, or cherry-picked. Or maybe other logical and compelling arguments prove Troy is even more likely in Turkey, but Wilkens did not mention these.
It takes a specialist to sift through those two possibilities.
The scholar experts I contacted refused to counter Wilken's arguments or facts, but invariably insisted he is wrong (just don't ask why, we have no time for that).
Wilkens himself refuses to answer my (well-intended) e-mails since years.
So I thought of this:
Let's do some stats.
I don't have the time for that ;D but maybe you do, please let me know. I have a way to produce an OBJECTIVE assessment of the Troy in UK hypothesis. No need to trust someone's word, no need to even have an opinion beforehand, and -yieeha!- no need to know anything about history or archeology or esoterism ... But you need time, googlemaps and stats.
I first post this to probe if anybody has any interest in this out there (while typing the rest offline)
--- End quote ---
First of all, I don't think you should rely on someone else doing what you suggest. nobody has enough time. Everyone is working flat out, to the max (it should be pretty obvious from the huge amount of background work that goes into producing the material here), so suggestions are always welcome, but if you have some burning questions and really want something doing... y'know, you'll probably have to do it, or at least start it, and present your line of thinking, and what you might intend to do. Which I don't think is unreasonable. and maybe someone else who is able and sees it as a relevant use of limited energy, may offer their help. and who knows what might happen.
Second, you may want to go and check out the Gog Magog hills in Cambridgeshire. Apparently the area in question is something to behold.
Third, I don't think your reaction is particularly unusual. yup, Wilkens' hypothesis may be rather disturbing, because he turns the accepted reality on its head. But he puts together a very strong case. I would guess he has had his life made extremely difficult because of his work, by those who resist thinking out of the box (ie most almost everybody, especially within academic circles). So you may find him frustrating, but if you consider it from his point of view, he probably has had a huge amount of negative experience from 'crazies' who have homed in on him specifically because what he says is controversial, so I would imagine he has a certain resistance to freely discussing his work with anyone who comes along.
btw, welcome to the forum. I hope you are not too disappointed by my suggestions, I'm just trying to point out the value of personal initiative, and committing one's own energy:
--- Quote from: J. W. von Goethe ---Until one is committed, there is hesitancy, the chance to draw back, always ineffectiveness. Concerning all acts of initiative (and creation), there is one elementary truth the ignorance of which kills countless ideas and splendid plans: that the moment one definitely commits oneself, then providence moves too. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A whole stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one's favour all manner of unforeseen incidents and meetings and material assistance, which no man could have dreamed would have come his way. Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.
--- End quote ---
turing_machine:
--- Quote from: Nomad on November 01, 2009, 12:10:15 AM ---First of all, I don't think you should rely on someone else doing what you suggest. nobody has enough time.
--- End quote ---
I don't, you obviously don't, but maybe someone else does (it should be pretty obvious from the huge amount of background work that goes into producing the material here !)
I will exactly present my line of thinking soon,
FYI, it took me years to articulate it, no lazy daisy here, rest assured
--- Quote from: Nomad on November 01, 2009, 12:10:15 AM ---Second, you may want to go and check out the Gog Magog hills in Cambridgeshire. Apparently the area in question is something to behold.
--- End quote ---
Check. I read the book's both editions many times over, google-earthed the place (very beautiful and obviously an artifact), and went there solely to see the Gog Magog hills in Cambridgeshire, although I don't live in Great Britain, had little time, little money, and was not sure what to think of Wilkens ! Result: I feel immensely privileged to have been there.
--- Quote from: Nomad on November 01, 2009, 12:10:15 AM ---Wilkens' hypothesis may be rather disturbing, because he turns the accepted reality on its head. But he puts together a very strong case. I'm sure he has had his life made extremely difficult because of his work, by those who resist thinking out of the box (ie most almost everybody, especially within academic circles).
--- End quote ---
Agreed. Strangely, Felice Vinci's book, "The Baltic Origins of Homer's Epic Tales" is praised by some scholars, although it also puts the accepted reality on its head. That's even more confusing, now!
“It is hard to overstate the impact, both scholarly and imaginative, of Vinci’s compellingly argued thesis. . . . Scholars will be rethinking Indo-European studies from the ground up and readers of Homer’s epics will enter fresh realms of delight as they look anew at the world in which Homer’s heroes first breathed and moved.”
(Professor William Mullen, department of classics, Bard College )
Anyway, I'll post the method as soon as I've translated it in English, and see what happens.
anart:
--- Quote from: turing_machine on November 01, 2009, 12:33:17 AM ---
--- Quote from: Nomad on November 01, 2009, 12:10:15 AM ---First of all, I don't think you should rely on someone else doing what you suggest. nobody has enough time.
--- End quote ---
I don't, you obviously don't, but maybe someone else does (it should be pretty obvious from the huge amount of background work that goes into producing the material here !)
--- End quote ---
I think you missed Nomad's point - if you want to gather statistics, then gather statistics. Don't expect others to do it for you. There are too many other very, very pressing things to do here!!
--- Quote from: t ---I will exactly present my line of thinking soon,
FYI, it took me years to articulate it, no lazy daisy here, rest assured
--- End quote ---
Is this supposed to be a 'tease'? If you have something to say, please just say it. Also, it would be greatly appreciated if you would introduce yourself in the Newbie's section so we have some idea of how you found us. Thanks - and welcome to the forum. :)
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