Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti

Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Dirk said:
Btw, one thing I must add and what makes me think is that Tolle's work is greatly inspired by 'A Course in Miracles'.

One of the things that ACIM teaches is that all evil is an illusion. "Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists."

I'd rather believe that, then Laura ;D.

Food for thought :).

I saw your reply where you addressed this already but, the question to ask yourself is not would you rather believe this but is it true. I assume you want to believe what is true. Maybe you would rather something be true, but that is subjectivity. It's not up to us to tell the universe how things should be.

BTW, I appreciate your civility in this discussion, a lot of people get aggravated when sacred cows (we all have them!) are challenged.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

parallel said:
Dirk said:
Btw, one thing I must add and what makes me think is that Tolle's work is greatly inspired by 'A Course in Miracles'.

One of the things that ACIM teaches is that all evil is an illusion. "Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists."

I'd rather believe that, then Laura ;D.

Food for thought :).

Hi Dirk

I don't quite understand what you are saying here, could you explain?

As Gurdjieff said, pseudo-esoteric systems play a part in awakening, as they may have preserved grains of thruth which may inspire the discerning and conscientious seeker to keep searching, the naked truth is not applicable to the still slumbering person, so increments are needed. Yet it is important in our mapping of this realm of lies to see what influences are at work to eventually treat the predicament. Even if those grains of thruth are what brings a few closer, they are still embedded in lies which need to be sorted.

As for the ACIM statement, you migth want to check this. The statement of "Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists." may be true in a non-3D STS world but hardly objectively true in our circumstance, in a context of soul and physical life combined. I remember reading that line and others in ACIM and using it as a tranquilizer, pretending that I had the book of rules to be true and forgiving of the illusory 'sins of the world', which was not the case, luckily I found flaws in it and moved on. This is not the case with most practicioners of that course (that I have been acquainted with), they seem to be wrapped and trapped in the sweet religious poetry and 'easy fix', it carries.

These systems which start us out, may have some useful tools however blunt, but they loose their relevance and usability when further lies are shed and deeper truth is discovered, ie. the Work, OSIT.


ISOTM said:
"But such pseudo-esoteric systems also play their part in the work and activities of esoteric circles. Namely, they are the intermediaries between humanity which is entirely immersed in the materialistic life and schools which are interested in the education of a certain number of people, as much for the purposes of their own existences as for the purposes of the work of a cosmic character which they may be carrying out. The very idea of esotericism, the idea of initiation, reaches people in most cases through pseudo-esoteric systems and schools; and if there were not these pseudo-esoteric schools the vast majority of humanity would have no possibility whatever of hearing and learning of the existence of anything greater than life because the truth in its pure form would be inaccessible for them. By reason of the many characteristics of man's being, particularly of the contemporary being, truth can only come to people in the form of a lie— only in this form are they able to accept it; only in this form are they able to digest and assimilate it. Truth undefiled would be, for them, indigestible food.
"Besides, a grain of truth in an unaltered form is sometimes found in pseudoesoteric
movements, in church religions, in occult and theosophical schools. It may be preserved in their writings, their rituals, their traditions, their conceptions of the hierarchy, their dogmas, and their rules.

It is comforting to believe ACIM. And to not believe Laura.

Statements like "Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists." do make me suspicious, especially in the light of what I am reading here.

So, to clarify, I see what you mean with it an attempt of the PTB to keep people asleep.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Mr. Premise said:
Dirk said:
Btw, one thing I must add and what makes me think is that Tolle's work is greatly inspired by 'A Course in Miracles'.

One of the things that ACIM teaches is that all evil is an illusion. "Nothing real can be threatened, nothing unreal exists."

I'd rather believe that, then Laura ;D.

Food for thought :).

I saw your reply where you addressed this already but, the question to ask yourself is not would you rather believe this but is it true. I assume you want to believe what is true.

Eventually yes.

But something I am jealous of the people completely asleep. How they are just ignorantly pursuing material goals without concern for what is outside. What a great life that would be sometimes.

Anyway, not possible for me anymore :cry:.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Dirk said:
Eventually yes.

But something I am jealous of the people completely asleep. How they are just ignorantly pursuing material goals without concern for what is outside. What a great life that would be sometimes.

Anyway, not possible for me anymore :cry:.

Are you sure about that? You certainly seem to argue for sleep a lot - in fact, most of your posts have been arguing in favor of sleep and comfort and passively jabbing that the information on this forum is not believable. Perhaps it's time for you to make a choice? If you truly are not interested in what is discussed here that is fine, you can join any number of other forums that will make you 'comfortable' - that is, after all, why they are there.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

anart said:
Dirk said:
Eventually yes.

But something I am jealous of the people completely asleep. How they are just ignorantly pursuing material goals without concern for what is outside. What a great life that would be sometimes.

Anyway, not possible for me anymore :cry:.

Are you sure about that? You certainly seem to argue for sleep a lot - in fact, most of your posts have been arguing in favor of sleep and comfort and passively jabbing that the information on this forum is not believable. Perhaps it's time for you to make a choice? If you truly are not interested in what is discussed here that is fine, you can join any number of other forums that will make you 'comfortable' - that is, after all, why they are there.

As Gurdjieff put it, the worst scenario is to be sitting on two stools, it's better to make a choice (choose one stool to sit on) - one way or the other.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

I just finished Tolle's 'A New Earth' and for the first half of the book I'd say I'm impressed with it if Tolle had never read any Gurdjieff. I thought to myself through it that Tolle is just taking things G said and saying them a little differently and adding some things. The skeptic in me thinks this what he did.

I didn't like how Tolle related the ego as pathological. I can see where he is coming from in that someone that reacts and lives off of programs that play and rule their lives are damaged, but to call them diseased is going in the wrong direction. He doesn't address the reasons that society is diseases - psychopathology and that the results of society that influence individuals that creates their ego is based off of this pathology. And so it is like blaming the vicitm and missing totally the real disease in the system.

Tolle also recommends to not identify with anger, anxiety and other emotions and to just observe them and let them go. A person that is even half paying attention to the present situation would be experiencing these and basically what Tolle is pushing is to don't worry be happy. Tolle never mentions gaining knowledge or actually learning about the reasons for why the world is the way it is now. He is basically saying that the world is going to change in a big way and the people that have had a glimpse of waking up to or working to wake up from the sleep of the false personality are going to be the ones to run the show in the new reality. I kept thinking how the hell is this going to happen from the present situation to then unless a person sees the world for what it is now and acts accordingly.

In all I could see this book being a stepping stone type of book where if a person read it and then read ISOTM or ran into this forum that they might find a deeper examination of the subject of working on the self and the related issues of the world the next step.
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Bear wrote."Tolle also recommends to not identify with anger, anxiety and other emotions and to just observe them and let them go. A person that is even half paying attention to the present situation would be experiencing these and basically what Tolle is pushing is to don't worry be happy."

To build on that remark, and, hoping I am not repeating anything already stated in this long thread...

Bear in mind that Mr. Gurdjieff and a group of his students >FLED< Russia when it became apparent that the Revolution was upon them. You can read an account of this in "Our Life with Mr. Gurdjieff" by the De Hartmanns. (Thomas DeHartmann was the musician who worked with Mr. Gurdjieff on the music and wrote it down.)

The thing is that Mr. Gurdjieff read the 'signs' of what was happening and LEFT. Sometimes anger and anxiety are telling me something useful. "Don't worry be happy" leaves me where I am - which could well be in the way of danger. THis is something I have to 'work with' every day - at what point to go, and where to go?
 
Re: Oprah & Eckhart Tolles book \

Read the books of Jiddu Krishnamurti if you want to do some more waking up and be mindful of what's going on in the computer above your shoulders. Some similarity to Tolle, but so much more depth, more comprehensive. Observance, watching your thoughts, what goes on in your mind at all times is the theme in his talks.
 
I find the teachings of Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti very interesting. Especially speeches about silence and awareness. They don't give the impressions of some new age gurus. They are funny, intelligent, warm and ordinary, You now, like somebody with whom you easily talk just about anything. In there speeches I didn't find anything about the lizzies and stuff and they talk a lot about non identification with thinking and awereness, but somehow i have the feeling that IS the connection with C's knowledge and wisdom, just the point of view is different. Or maybe is that just my wishful thinking because I enjoyed very much in there's view of life. I really like to hear some opinion about this. Any clue ?

ps.
You can find the videos on Youtube and on the link : _http://www.adyashanti.org

_http://www.eckharttolle.com/
 
Emmanuel said:
I find the teachings of Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti very interesting. Especially speeches about silence and awareness. They don't give the impressions of some new age gurus. They are funny, intelligent, warm and ordinary, You now, like somebody with whom you easily talk just about anything. In there speeches I didn't find anything about the lizzies and stuff and they talk a lot about non identification with thinking and awereness, but somehow i have the feeling that IS the connection with C's knowledge and wisdom, just the point of view is different. Or maybe is that just my wishful thinking because I enjoyed very much in there's view of life. I really like to hear some opinion about this. Any clue ?

ps.
You can find the videos on Youtube and on the link : _http://www.adyashanti.org

_http://www.eckharttolle.com/

Hi Emmanuel, please search the forum for Tolle. There are several discussions about him, and, yes, your wishful thinking is active again. ;)
 
Hi Emmanuel,
Here is a thread that discusses Tolle in some detail.

Based on biographies available on the internet, Adyashanti aka Steven Gray studied Zen Buddhism with a teacher in California. Zen buddhism comes from Japan. This guy left the tradition and apparently struck out on his own taking up the name "Adyashanti" (primordial peace), a Sanskrit word. He is very popular and on the web, his teachings often get grouped together with Advaita (non-dual) Vedanta, a school of thought coming out of India. Just a note that Advaita and Buddhism hold different irreconciliable views regarding reality - both cannot be true together (from a logical standpoint). New Age circles have adopted some concepts from Advaita Vedanta in their own way and it is a huge crowd-puller as are teachers with Indian/Sanskrit names. Zen people are usually more conservative, disciplined and their ways are hard on the body and mind - consequently they usually do not top the metaphysical charts.

One "interesting" snippet in Adyashanti's biography from _http://www.kktanhp.com/adyashanti.htm

He was born to a great family with two sisters, one older and one younger than he. His parents were good people. His childhood was extraordinarily happy. Although his family was not particularly religious, one of his grandparents was very spiritual, and thus spirituality and religion were often part of the discussion. As a child he did not partake of any of the talks, but he merely listened with fascination. So there was this early attraction to spirituality and religion.

As a child he used to experience some mystical phenomena. A ball of white light used to visit him at the end of his bed. He found it intriguing but not unusual. He would find himself merging with his dresser drawer. Again, he found it pleasurable and intriguing but not unusual.

During his teens, ‘in one of those days’, he would wake up and find that everything that he sensed was one thing. And sometimes it felt like something different was looking through his eyes. This mysterious something was very ancient and eternal. He had to be careful not to look at people too closely, as this power through his eyes would shock the people he was looking at. The other people became afraid and looked away. This phenomenon would last one to three days, during which he felt eternal and timeless. These episodes would occur three to five times a year. He never talked to his parents or teachers about them.

At one time a thought would push a child aside in the playground. It felt like his eyes were that of eternity: it was ancient and yet young and innocent. This was really startling and it lasted for a day. He was about eight or nine years old then. The experiences were foretastes of awakening, glimpses of certain aspects of awakening.

He was a loner and quite different from other children, although he played on the bars and always had a few friends. When he was in grade school, he was diagnosed with dyslexia. He could not concentrate very well, but had a lot of energy. His mother had a great sense of humour. She used to tell him that the whole family was weird, and being weird is wonderful.

This may not be the official version of his biography but if what is written is factual, I would not take the signs in bold above as a "foretaste of awakening".


I did go through some of his writings, which as these types of writings go, mixes in elements of truth with a lot of vagueness.

From _http://www.adyashanti.org/
[quote author=Adyashanti]

Everything Comes Back to Nothing
................

The incarnation is nothing more than a thought. A thousand incarnations are but a thousand thoughts. And this amazing miracle of a mirage we call the world reappears as it was before, but now you know. That’s why you usually have a good laugh, because you realize that all your struggles were made up. You conjured them up out of nothing—with a thought that was linked to another thought, that was then believed, that linked to another thought that was then believed. But never could it have been true, not for a second could it have actually existed. Not ever could you have actually suffered for a reason that was true—only through an imagination, good, bad, indifferent. The intricacies of spiritual philosophy and theologies are just a thought within Emptiness.

And so at times we talk, and I pretend to take your struggles seriously, just as I pretended to take my own seriously. You may pretend to take your own struggles seriously from time to time, and although we pretend, we really shouldn’t forget that we are pretending, that we are making up the content of our experience; we are making up the little dramas of our lives. We are making up whether we need to hold on or surrender or figure it out or pray to God or be purified or have karma cleansed—it’s all a thought. We just collude in this ridiculous charade of an illusion pretending that it’s real, only to reveal that it’s not. There is no karma. There is nothing really to purify. There’s no problem. There is only what you create and believe to be so. And if you like it that way, have at it!

But we cannot continue this absolute farce indefinitely. We cannot continue to pretend this game we play, indefinitely. It’s impossible. Everything comes back to nothing.

And then it’s a bit harder to hold a straight face consistently for the rest of your life.
[/quote]

Sounds good for self-calming; lacks any substance imo which is not surprising since "it is all illusion" after all.

Here is a link to someone's critical reflections after attending Adyashanti's retreat in person.

_http://integral-review.org/documents/McGonagill,%20Appreciatively%20Critical%20Reflections,Vol.4%20No.1.pdf

Some snippets
Despite the pretensions of his name, (Sanskrit for “primordial peace”) Adyashanti encourages people to call him “Adja.” He reports with amusement that his audience tripled when he switched from his given name (Stephen Gray). He trained for many years as a Zen Buddhist with Arvis Joen Justi, a (female) student of Taizan Maezumi Roshi of the Zen Center of Los Angeles. But he left this tradition and has gone out on his own. His retreats are now in such demand that access is by lottery. There were 350 people at this retreat.

Part of his appeal results, I think, from his presenting himself as a kind of “regular guy,” one who enjoys playing cards, riding his motorcycle, and watching sports on TV. He sits in a comfortable chair rather than on a traditional mediation cushion. And he says he does not like burning incense or doing other conventionally “spiritual” things—all in all, a very “nonspiritual” spiritual teacher, in his own words.

Consistent with this image, he disdains many of the formalities and rigors of Zen practice, such as maintaining a rigid posture even to the point of intense pain (he reports that such practice led him to do serious damage to himself by tearing a ligament). And he has little patience with the hair-splitting ideological wars within different schools of Buddhism or among other religions.
.....................................

But although there were a number of exchanges that seemed productive and some that I found personally helpful, at many other times I felt troubled by the interaction between Adyashanti and the people who came forward. Many described their problem in such abstract terms that it was hard for me to understand what they were asking, and equally hard for me to imagine that he understood them either. Sometimes the description didn’t go beyond metaphors, e.g., “I’m like a dog that won’t let go of a bone, and the bone that I’m chewing on is my own leg.” In this instance Adyashanti deftly invited the speaker to consult his own inner wisdom, which seemed to work very well, and didn’t require that the teacher understand the literal content of the metaphor.

However, in most cases he began offering commentary, often without asking questions, or very many questions. Rarely did he ask for concrete examples. Instead he tended to move quickly to dispensing advice, sometimes even before a question had been posed. I often found the advice to be quite abstract and as unclear as the questions. People usually reached a point where they seemed satisfied, but I wondered whether they felt too embarrassed to say that they, like me, didn’t get it. (I recognize that these critical observations would carry more weight if they were supported by concrete examples, but I failed to note any at the time and couldn’t recollect any later. I recognize that others might have interpreted the interactions differently).
............................

Although I liked his approach to meditation, I was less fond of his name for it: “true” meditation. Doesn’t this name imply that other approaches are not true, or less true? And if so, isn’t Adyashanti doing precisely what he criticized others of doing when they declare their approach to be “better”? To his credit, he more than once said, following the Buddha, “Don’t take my word for anything. Try it out in your own experience.” But some of his teachings are so abstract that I find it hard to imagine how I, or anyone, would test them out. E.g., his definition of “true meditation” contains a number of sentences like the following:
“Silence is the non-state from which all states arise and subside.” I have no idea how I would find out through my own experience whether silence is a “non-state.”
How indeed could I determine whether/how a nonstate is different from a state?

Most troubling of all, one person asked him whether his approach depended on beliefs. Among the things he said in response was: “beliefs are about things that you aren’t certain are true. If you know they are true (for which he gave the example, ‘that I am speaking into this microphone’) then they aren’t beliefs, rather they are ‘truths’.” I found this a deeply disturbing assertion. Apparently he would have us see his approach to spirituality as consisting of “truths” rather than “beliefs.” This suggests that he regards his own approach as self-evidently true and beyond dispute, presumably in contrast to other systems, which are based on “beliefs” that can be challenged. If I heard him correctly, he would seem to be taking a selfrighteous stance not unlike that for which he had mocked other traditions.

Persons with pathologies are also known to pronounce "truths" which are to be taken as self-evident. Laura's post here which has extensive quotes from Political Ponerology may be useful reading in this context.
 
It's appealing to believe that we become enlightened or spiritual by just flicking off a little switch in our heads, no work, no facing the reality of who we are required… But if you think about it, whatever promotes that and in whatever form, has to have an alarm bell ringing, because such things don't happen in reality, and when they do (or appear to do), it's probably a good idea to dig a bit deeper. The way I see it is it's more like we're a long string with a whole bunch of knots all tangled up on itself, there's no magic knot that unties all the others, it's more a case of untying one after another. BTW I'm referring more to Tolle's life and ideas, I'm not familiar with Adyashanti, but from what Obyvatel dug up, appears to be a similar case.

Edit: clarity
 
anart said:
Emmanuel said:
I find the teachings of Eckart Tolle and Adyashanti very interesting. Especially speeches about silence and awareness. They don't give the impressions of some new age gurus. They are funny, intelligent, warm and ordinary, You now, like somebody with whom you easily talk just about anything. In there speeches I didn't find anything about the lizzies and stuff and they talk a lot about non identification with thinking and awereness, but somehow i have the feeling that IS the connection with C's knowledge and wisdom, just the point of view is different. Or maybe is that just my wishful thinking because I enjoyed very much in there's view of life. I really like to hear some opinion about this. Any clue ?

ps.
You can find the videos on Youtube and on the link : _http://www.adyashanti.org

_http://www.eckharttolle.com/

Hi Emmanuel, please search the forum for Tolle. There are several discussions about him, and, yes, your wishful thinking is active again. ;)

Thank You for info Anart. And thanx that You confirmed my suspicions about my way of thinking, when i like something. ;D
 
obyvatel said:
Hi Emmanuel,
Here is a thread that discusses Tolle in some detail.

Based on biographies available on the internet, Adyashanti aka Steven Gray studied Zen Buddhism with a teacher in California. Zen buddhism comes from Japan. This guy left the tradition and apparently struck out on his own taking up the name "Adyashanti" (primordial peace), a Sanskrit word. He is very popular and on the web, his teachings often get grouped together with Advaita (non-dual) Vedanta, a school of thought coming out of India. Just a note that Advaita and Buddhism hold different irreconciliable views regarding reality - both cannot be true together (from a logical standpoint). New Age circles have adopted some concepts from Advaita Vedanta in their own way and it is a huge crowd-puller as are teachers with Indian/Sanskrit names. Zen people are usually more conservative, disciplined and their ways are hard on the body and mind - consequently they usually do not top the metaphysical charts.

One "interesting" snippet in Adyashanti's biography from _http://www.kktanhp.com/adyashanti.htm

He was born to a great family with two sisters, one older and one younger than he. His parents were good people. His childhood was extraordinarily happy. Although his family was not particularly religious, one of his grandparents was very spiritual, and thus spirituality and religion were often part of the discussion. As a child he did not partake of any of the talks, but he merely listened with fascination. So there was this early attraction to spirituality and religion.

As a child he used to experience some mystical phenomena. A ball of white light used to visit him at the end of his bed. He found it intriguing but not unusual. He would find himself merging with his dresser drawer. Again, he found it pleasurable and intriguing but not unusual.

During his teens, ‘in one of those days’, he would wake up and find that everything that he sensed was one thing. And sometimes it felt like something different was looking through his eyes. This mysterious something was very ancient and eternal. He had to be careful not to look at people too closely, as this power through his eyes would shock the people he was looking at. The other people became afraid and looked away. This phenomenon would last one to three days, during which he felt eternal and timeless. These episodes would occur three to five times a year. He never talked to his parents or teachers about them.

At one time a thought would push a child aside in the playground. It felt like his eyes were that of eternity: it was ancient and yet young and innocent. This was really startling and it lasted for a day. He was about eight or nine years old then. The experiences were foretastes of awakening, glimpses of certain aspects of awakening.

He was a loner and quite different from other children, although he played on the bars and always had a few friends. When he was in grade school, he was diagnosed with dyslexia. He could not concentrate very well, but had a lot of energy. His mother had a great sense of humour. She used to tell him that the whole family was weird, and being weird is wonderful.

This may not be the official version of his biography but if what is written is factual, I would not take the signs in bold above as a "foretaste of awakening".


I did go through some of his writings, which as these types of writings go, mixes in elements of truth with a lot of vagueness.

From _http://www.adyashanti.org/
[quote author=Adyashanti]

Everything Comes Back to Nothing
................

The incarnation is nothing more than a thought. A thousand incarnations are but a thousand thoughts. And this amazing miracle of a mirage we call the world reappears as it was before, but now you know. That’s why you usually have a good laugh, because you realize that all your struggles were made up. You conjured them up out of nothing—with a thought that was linked to another thought, that was then believed, that linked to another thought that was then believed. But never could it have been true, not for a second could it have actually existed. Not ever could you have actually suffered for a reason that was true—only through an imagination, good, bad, indifferent. The intricacies of spiritual philosophy and theologies are just a thought within Emptiness.

And so at times we talk, and I pretend to take your struggles seriously, just as I pretended to take my own seriously. You may pretend to take your own struggles seriously from time to time, and although we pretend, we really shouldn’t forget that we are pretending, that we are making up the content of our experience; we are making up the little dramas of our lives. We are making up whether we need to hold on or surrender or figure it out or pray to God or be purified or have karma cleansed—it’s all a thought. We just collude in this ridiculous charade of an illusion pretending that it’s real, only to reveal that it’s not. There is no karma. There is nothing really to purify. There’s no problem. There is only what you create and believe to be so. And if you like it that way, have at it!

But we cannot continue this absolute farce indefinitely. We cannot continue to pretend this game we play, indefinitely. It’s impossible. Everything comes back to nothing.

And then it’s a bit harder to hold a straight face consistently for the rest of your life.

Sounds good for self-calming; lacks any substance imo which is not surprising since "it is all illusion" after all.

Here is a link to someone's critical reflections after attending Adyashanti's retreat in person.

_http://integral-review.org/documents/McGonagill,%20Appreciatively%20Critical%20Reflections,Vol.4%20No.1.pdf

Some snippets
Despite the pretensions of his name, (Sanskrit for “primordial peace”) Adyashanti encourages people to call him “Adja.” He reports with amusement that his audience tripled when he switched from his given name (Stephen Gray). He trained for many years as a Zen Buddhist with Arvis Joen Justi, a (female) student of Taizan Maezumi Roshi of the Zen Center of Los Angeles. But he left this tradition and has gone out on his own. His retreats are now in such demand that access is by lottery. There were 350 people at this retreat.

Part of his appeal results, I think, from his presenting himself as a kind of “regular guy,” one who enjoys playing cards, riding his motorcycle, and watching sports on TV. He sits in a comfortable chair rather than on a traditional mediation cushion. And he says he does not like burning incense or doing other conventionally “spiritual” things—all in all, a very “nonspiritual” spiritual teacher, in his own words.

Consistent with this image, he disdains many of the formalities and rigors of Zen practice, such as maintaining a rigid posture even to the point of intense pain (he reports that such practice led him to do serious damage to himself by tearing a ligament). And he has little patience with the hair-splitting ideological wars within different schools of Buddhism or among other religions.
.....................................

But although there were a number of exchanges that seemed productive and some that I found personally helpful, at many other times I felt troubled by the interaction between Adyashanti and the people who came forward. Many described their problem in such abstract terms that it was hard for me to understand what they were asking, and equally hard for me to imagine that he understood them either. Sometimes the description didn’t go beyond metaphors, e.g., “I’m like a dog that won’t let go of a bone, and the bone that I’m chewing on is my own leg.” In this instance Adyashanti deftly invited the speaker to consult his own inner wisdom, which seemed to work very well, and didn’t require that the teacher understand the literal content of the metaphor.

However, in most cases he began offering commentary, often without asking questions, or very many questions. Rarely did he ask for concrete examples. Instead he tended to move quickly to dispensing advice, sometimes even before a question had been posed. I often found the advice to be quite abstract and as unclear as the questions. People usually reached a point where they seemed satisfied, but I wondered whether they felt too embarrassed to say that they, like me, didn’t get it. (I recognize that these critical observations would carry more weight if they were supported by concrete examples, but I failed to note any at the time and couldn’t recollect any later. I recognize that others might have interpreted the interactions differently).
............................

Although I liked his approach to meditation, I was less fond of his name for it: “true” meditation. Doesn’t this name imply that other approaches are not true, or less true? And if so, isn’t Adyashanti doing precisely what he criticized others of doing when they declare their approach to be “better”? To his credit, he more than once said, following the Buddha, “Don’t take my word for anything. Try it out in your own experience.” But some of his teachings are so abstract that I find it hard to imagine how I, or anyone, would test them out. E.g., his definition of “true meditation” contains a number of sentences like the following:
“Silence is the non-state from which all states arise and subside.” I have no idea how I would find out through my own experience whether silence is a “non-state.”
How indeed could I determine whether/how a nonstate is different from a state?

Most troubling of all, one person asked him whether his approach depended on beliefs. Among the things he said in response was: “beliefs are about things that you aren’t certain are true. If you know they are true (for which he gave the example, ‘that I am speaking into this microphone’) then they aren’t beliefs, rather they are ‘truths’.” I found this a deeply disturbing assertion. Apparently he would have us see his approach to spirituality as consisting of “truths” rather than “beliefs.” This suggests that he regards his own approach as self-evidently true and beyond dispute, presumably in contrast to other systems, which are based on “beliefs” that can be challenged. If I heard him correctly, he would seem to be taking a selfrighteous stance not unlike that for which he had mocked other traditions.

Persons with pathologies are also known to pronounce "truths" which are to be taken as self-evident. Laura's post here which has extensive quotes from Political Ponerology may be useful reading in this context.


[/quote]

Thank You obyvatel for Your point of view and I agree that some statement from him can be interpreted like "his own truth us the only truth".
However I personally didn't have this impression, because I didn't find in myself any pressure from him to believe what he wants. I also investigate before what was his path in life and since I am pretty familiar with the Zen philosophy and meditation ( I practice martial arts and zazen for 10 years ) I didn't find nothing unusual and manipulative in his words.
But, is always very insightful and refreshing when You hear a different point of view and then take a new approach to the same thing. :cool:
 
alkhemst said:
It's appealing to believe that we become enlightened or spiritual by just flicking off a little switch in our heads, no work, no facing the reality of who we are required… But if you think about it, whatever promotes that and in whatever form, has to have an alarm bell ringing, because such things don't happen in reality, and when they do (or appear to do), it's probably a good idea to dig a bit deeper. The way I see it is it's more like we're a long string with a whole bunch of knots all tangled up on itself, there's no magic knot that unties all the others, it's more a case of untying one after another. BTW I'm referring more to Tolle's life and ideas, I'm not familiar with Adyashanti, but from what Obyvatel dug up, appears to be a similar case.

Edit: clarity

Like everything in life we can turn and twist every word like we please. I would not take Adyashanti and his words so lightly and put him in a box with others before I investigate first and then make a opinion. ;
However I appreciate Your point of view alkhemst. :cool2:
 

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