Exposing Online Predators & Cyberpaths

[jumpinjack2011]

It's what makes you a good detective. You DO check!

[RedFox]

In short, if what they are writing is messing with your head/heart/causing your to doubt yourself, you've given them too much rope to tug at.
After a few examples of them doing this, your 'defences' should be on high alert, and nothing they say should be 'allowed in'.
It might be worth pondering that for a moment (that your letting in their crud), rather than sticking with trying to wrap your mind around them (have your mind moulded by them):

I've seen psychopaths do this kind of thing dozens of times, but it NEVER gets any easier to wrap my mind around.

I kinda feel like I'm in between a rock and a hard place on this one.  I HAVE to give them the benefit of the doubt.. at least at first, and keep rechecking my data, because I do make mistakes occasionally.  I try REALLY hard not to, but I still do...I can mix up names, or dates in my head, so I HAVE to go to my notes, screenshots, etc..

When someone claims I've got a fact wrong, I've GOT to recheck it, just to satisfy their claim in my own mind... 'cause I know I can be wrong.  Just 'cause I think I know something, it doesn't mean I do.  So yeah, they get to run me around in circles for awhile, but I'd rather chase my tail than falsely accuse someone.

I apologise for any confusion guardian, I understand the fact checking and absolutely agree that you have to be certain that you're right/have the facts straight.
What I was attempting to point out (and may not have done so clearly - so may be mistaken   ) was it seemed that you where giving too much benefit of the doubt after several examples of them lieing/twisting things.....you where allowing them to run you in circles internally (letting them in) whilst re-checking the data/facts....when you should already have your armour on, and can still check the facts with it on - thus not letting them run your in circles internally.
Hope that makes a little more sense.

[Guardian]

I apologise for any confusion guardian, I understand the fact checking and absolutely agree that you have to be certain that you're right/have the facts straight.
What I was attempting to point out (and may not have done so clearly - so may be mistaken   ) was it seemed that you where giving too much benefit of the doubt after several examples of them lieing/twisting things.....you where allowing them to run you in circles internally (letting them in) whilst re-checking the data/facts....when you should already have your armour on, and can still check the facts with it on - thus not letting them run your in circles internally.
Hope that makes a little more sense.

Actually, I kinda appreciate the confusion, because it's made me realize that I'm constantly kicking myself for something I really have to do.  Psychopaths OFTEN mix truth with lies, to make the lies more believable.  I can't KNOW they're lying, until I look.  I don't EVER believe them, but I do realize that they could be telling a truth THIS TIME....if the truth serves their purpose.

I good example was the claim that Mary Mcgrannahan had won all the Motions that had been ruled on in the Kester v. Mcgrannahan case.  I knew they were waiting for the Judge to rule on several Motions, and I knew Kester is in California, so I knew it was POSSIBLE for the Judge to have ruled on the Motions and the Plaintiff (Kester) not know yet.  Is the 'path telling the truth this time?  I can't know unless I look. 

As it turned out, she was lying, and I was pretty sure she was lying while I was registering for a PACER account...but I had to KNOW.  So then I beat on myself for wasting time confirming something I already knew, but really didn't KNOW.

[Psalehesost]

I just love how you guys analyze psychopaths and have book references for them an all that.  I have a hard time getting past "These women are freak'in nuts"

My logical mind knows what they're doing, but my emotions just don't want to believe it.  I had to read Mary Mcgrannahan's "There was no subpoena" post three times, then go look at my screenshots to be SURE I remembered what I remembered, before I could accept what she'd done.

I've seen psychopaths do this kind of thing dozens of times, but it NEVER gets any easier to wrap my mind around.  It's like trying to learn to write Chinese (if you're not Chinese) ...you can learn the definitions of the symbols, but you can never really get an internal understanding of them like a born Chinese person can.

Honestly, though I can read and think about material analyzing them and see the connections, it's still hard to wrap my mind around the lies they make. When faced with those two screenshots you posted (before her edit and after), it was boggling for a while.

Actually, maybe you could say that when faced with these things, drawing upon analysis of psychopaths and how they work (such as the article I quoted) is something that helps me to stop feeling a bit confused.

[RyanX]

I good example was the claim that Mary Mcgrannahan had won all the Motions that had been ruled on in the Kester v. Mcgrannahan case.  I knew they were waiting for the Judge to rule on several Motions, and I knew Kester is in California, so I knew it was POSSIBLE for the Judge to have ruled on the Motions and the Plaintiff (Kester) not know yet.  Is the 'path telling the truth this time?  I can't know unless I look.

As it turned out, she was lying, and I was pretty sure she was lying while I was registering for a PACER account...but I had to KNOW.  So then I beat on myself for wasting time confirming something I already knew, but really didn't KNOW.

Guardian,

Wasn't the fact that Barbara was posting about the motions just a decoy to hide her own defamatory behavior towards Sandra?  I mean, aren't the technical details of this court case kind of a moot point compared to Barbara's behavior in general?  Barbara seemed to be deflecting from the main issue which was her pathological behavior.  Then again, maybe I'm misunderstanding this whole court case, defamation thing... which is quite likely...

There's a nice little book In Sheeps Clothing by George Simon that talks about ways of dealing with manipulative people.  He talks about the techniques they use and how to counter them.  Keeping the conversation focused on the pathological's behavior is one tip he mentions - because they will always try to deflect from their behavior with whatever they can come up with.  I think you already know this, but we can all use a reminder from time to time.    This is why Anart was so direct with Barbara and banner her when she refused to answer a simple question, osit.

Regardless though, it's important to give the lie the truth, which you did.  But even if Barbara was telling the truth in this one instance, her behavior was still pathological no matter how you slice it.  Also, many have said this already, but I'm going to say it again: Thank You Guardian for all your hard work in this case!

[jumpinjack2011]

Barbara Camwell and Mary McGrannanhs behavior is keep anything and everything a moving target. When she was asked repeatedly why she would pay to view someone else's court papers online she dodged it by asking why I was interested instead of just answering. Any topic Barbara Camwell Barbara Camwell Ness brings up is to keep people responding to this allegation, then that allegation, to deflect, to keep a sand storm moving about. 

[jumpinjack2011]

Regarding Barbara Camwell Barbara Camwell Ness and Mary McGrannanhans motives, I think Vaknin describes the pathology at play best when he said : Language is a weapon of self defense. It's used to fend off, hide and evade, avoid, disguise, shift semantics, say nothing at length, use evasive syntax, disguise the source of information, talk 'at' others and lecture, use their own private language, emphasizes their conspiracy theories, rumors and phobias. Language is not to communicate but obscure, not to share but to abstain, to disagree without incurring wrath, to criticize without committment, agree without appearing to do so. Language is a weapon, an asset,  a piece of lethal property, a mistress to be gang-raped. Language is a lover, composition but not content.'  Thanks Sam! I think that about covers it.     

[Guardian]

Wasn't the fact that Barbara was posting about the motions just a decoy to hide her own defamatory behavior towards Sandra?  I mean, aren't the technical details of this court case kind of a moot point compared to Barbara's behavior in general?

Yup, and I went right for it 'cause I just gotta know all the tiny little details.  It's kinda like Psychopath vs. Anal Retentive    

[Guardian]

The more I think about this, the more I realize how incredibly annoying this has to be for the psychopath?  They go to all the trouble of posting all kinds of lies about me, call me terrible names, etc. and I'm MUCH more concerned with the possibility that I might have missed some obscure legal fact.

"Yes, yes yes, I'm Betsy the terrible terrorist tornado, whatever... so do you happen to have a link to a full size scan of that Demand letter?"

hehehehehe ...that's got to get on their nerves.   

[jumpinjack2011]

Yep anytime you just focus on their behavior and the consequences of their behavior there's no where to move. They can try to create a fire storm about someone else but as we saw with Barbara Camwell on here, they never answer the questions about their own behavior. I guess part of the disorder is not being able to tell that you just advertised your disorder to the world through deflecting and blaming others.  Yep, but they wouldn't get it.

[Guardian]

Yep anytime you just focus on their behavior and the consequences of their behavior there's no where to move. They can try to create a fire storm about someone else but as we saw with Barbara Camwell on here, they never answer the questions about their own behavior. I guess part of the disorder is not being able to tell that you just advertised your disorder to the world through deflecting and blaming others.  Yep, but they wouldn't get it.

YES!  Mary Mcgrannahan just did it again.  She gave away the fact that she's in this for the money.  She's now claiming that I'm "employed" by Sandra Brown ...which is another flat out lie.  Sandra Brown has never given me a penny for anything I've done for her, including fixing her computer.  She's offered to pay me for my WORK, more than once....and I refused her offer, more than once, because I want to support her WORK.  The only thing Sandra Brown has ever given me is copies of her books (way before the Barbara Camwell stuff started)  because that is all I would accept!  I wanted to read her books, they're good.

Furthermore, I have never been paid a penny for exposing ANY of the perverts and predators on Problematic Pagans  I have never asked for, or accepted "Donations" or payment of any kind.  You can look for yourself, our web pages are archived as far back at the Wayback Machine goes.  Over the years, grateful people have even sent me checks, out of the blue, in "Thank You" cards, and I've always torn the check up...but I do keep the cards  

The first thing Mary Mcgrannahan thought was that I'm defending Sandra Brown because Sandra's paying me...which is NOT true, but money is  what motivates Mcgrannahan, so she assumes that's what motivates me.  She simply can not understand that I exist to defend people who are doing WORK like Sandra, Laura, Amy, etc.  I pick my "side" in accordance with who has a list of victims, and who has a list of people they've helped, NOT according to who can pay me.  

Interesting... it appears that they have as hard a time understanding us as we do understanding them?

[Patience]

Interesting... it appears that they have as hard a time understanding us as we do understanding them?

A difference is that they try to force their warped view of humanity on everybody they contact.

[Guardian]

A difference is that they try to force their warped view of humanity on everybody they contact.

Yes, I've noticed that one too!  The vast majority of ordinary people don't give a fat rat's be'hind what their neighbor does or does not believe.  We just want to be left alone to go about our lives....don't care what happens on the other side of the privacy fence unless we hear cries for "help" 

It's ALWAYS the psychos who want the world to march in lock step...to their tune of course. 

[Bluestar]

YES!  Mary Mcgrannahan just did it again.  She gave away the fact that she's in this for the money.  She's now claiming that I'm "employed" by Sandra Brown ...which is another flat out lie.


The first thing Mary Mcgrannahan thought was that I'm defending Sandra Brown because Sandra's paying me...which is NOT true, but money is  what motivates Mcgrannahan, so she assumes that's what motivates me.  She simply can not understand that I exist to defend people who are doing WORK like Sandra, Laura, Amy, etc.  I pick my "side" in accordance with who has a list of victims, and who has a list of people they've helped, NOT according to who can pay me. 

Interesting... it appears that they have as hard a time understanding us as we do understanding them?

There is that mirror thing that she is using, again.  Grasping for straws.  'If this is what Mary M. is doing then Guardian must be doing it as well, BS!'  Obviously this woman has no understanding of what it means to have integrity or for that matter, being human.  She is using the only tools she knows, her own actions to try and accuse you of what she does herself.  She knows no other way.  What you do Guardian is beyond even a simple understanding by the likes of these people.  Doing something for free for the good of all is reproachable to them.  And this I believe is due to that it infringes on their ability to charge for a similar service.  They are threatened of their livelihood.  Corner a psychopath and the only thing they can defend themselves with is lies.  And they do this with no shame!


Not sure if they even bother to try and understand us.  It is not in their play books.  She is on defensive attack mode and will do anything (as we can see) to make herself look as lily white as possible.   At what lengths they go to does boggle the mind.

[jumpinjack2011]

Is it even statistically possible for Barbara Camwell and Mary McGrannahan to be a victim of THAT many people? According to them everyone on the planet has victimized them. Their list just gets longer and longer. How they even draw a breath is remarkable. They should be beatified for being the target of many. With all the evilness in the world that just keeps finding them  they manage to suffer through it to share the gospel of defamation with all. I am amazed at their resilience in the face of being shot at by multitudes of others. They still manage to drag themselves to the computer to blog day and night of the miraculous feats they have overcome each day in fighting all the other women's abuse sites and still delivering their plate of mental illness to any who will partake. Let's give credit where credit is due.