Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or "I, Psychopath"?

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho said:

The reason I have brought up chinese handcuffs is because with the disordered their game is to lock you in. With the disordered, there is what is called "double bind", where you are wrong if you do and wrong if you don't. So if take for instance, you do speak the truth, wonderful, you are standing up and letting others know to be aware, yet how far do you take it? With the disordered, to them you are wrong, you then become their stalker, you are hounding them. Remember in Windsong's post she mentioned getting nasty e-mails, was she stating that people from this forum were bothering her. Now just her saying it does not make it true but the disordered will always try to make it appear that way. So where does that leave you? In a big circle, you say something, they come back at you and accuse you of stuff, it just keeps going and going. And maybe it might lead you to stoop to their level, utilize their own tactics against them.

Is it worth it? That is my question, or do you have another choice?

Yes, you do have another choice. Removing yourself from the situation.

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Ahh, I see the issue here. You are looking at the situation from the point of view of only yourself - what is best for YOU. Whereas, purplehaze and others are looking at the situation from the point of view of how to HELP OTHERS.

This is the crux and the difference. For you, it is playing with Chinese handcuffs - how it affects you only. For others in this discussion it is not about playing with Chinese handcuffs - it is about saving LIVES through the dissemination of objective information. It is about giving a lie and a manipulation what it asks for - the truth.

Interesting.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho, I sure do agree with your Kenny Rogers' quote, but I also agree that innocent people need to be warned and educated. How do we find a balance?

For me, it was very important to understand what I was experiencing and dealing with. I needed to know what kind of creature it was that could look so human and behave so demonic. Of course, I was guilty of the same thing that most victims are guilty of: projecting my own inner nature onto others, assuming that they were good, decent, people inside, and it was all just a misunderstanding. If enough explaining was done, all would be well!

Was I ever wrong! All my efforts were used against me as weapons and it was shocking to see how a simple truth could be so twisted all out of recognition by the stalking pathological.

It was a huge shock to my system to realize that one of my dearest illusions - that all human beings were basically good, only some had "issues" to sort out, all were equal in the sight of God, or whatever - was just NOT applicable to real life. I had to metabolize it. I had gotten myself into a situation which, basically, amounted to taking a big bite of a lesson, and now I had to chew it, swallow it, digest it, extract what good there was from it, and get rid of the rest.

In my case, the pathological involved had victimized others before me (which I found out later when they wrote to me to tell their stories, still afraid of this guy!) and I could see that he already had a line on a few others. Because of the fact that my husband and I do have a sort of "public work", it was absolutely necessary that we be completely transparent about this whole situation because our life's work was being trashed, too.

So, I had to be rather public about chronicling my experiences with the whacko.

Not everybody has to do that. But I do think that these predators should be exposed in some way. The best way that I know is for women who have been victimized to start to learn all they can and share that knowledge with others. They don't have to expose the perp exactly, or by name, but they sure can tell their story and share what they have learned so that others won't be similarly victimized.

In the end, if you suffer a terrible ordeal, it gains a LOT of value if your sharing of what you have learned helps even just one other person.

So, you can run away from the situation if it is too dangerous, but you should never run away from the lesson, from facing the facts - even about your own vulnerabilities that made you a victim - and if you run from talking about it so that others can learn from your mistakes, you lose an excellent chance to turn devaluing into self-esteem.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Laura,

So, you can run away from the situation if it is too dangerous, but you should never run away from the lesson, from facing the facts - even about your own vulnerabilities that made you a victim - and if you run from talking about it so that others can learn from your mistakes, you lose an excellent chance to turn devaluing into self-esteem.

I agree with you. Lessons I have learned:

1. The forums connected to SV are not healthy environments
2. Discernment especially when online

I wanted to post my story and address the unhealthy behaviros of others, not attacking people but their behaviors.

I found the MSN forum linked to SV 2 yrs ago when I was going through everything after I left my ex N husband, my counselor mentioned Nism to me me so I looked into it online. I also bought his book. The MSN forum was a cool place for me, it helped me identify what had happened to me. After a few months of being a member there, they asked me to be a manager, I was so new to the internet, I was not sure what to do but excepted, thought it was a neat opprotunity, to give back.

I started talking to a senior member off of the forum, the next thing I know this member went totally nuts on me. Management seemed to back me up, but I was getting attacks on the forum from what appeared to be that senior members friends. I also talked with a member of management off of the forum, I started to notice that the manager's behavior was starting to drain me, this person was stepping on my boundaries, I tried to step back and then all of a sudden that person went to other members of management and then managemnt was attacking me. I got an e-mail from the meber I was having a problem with that stated that if I did not talk to her I would be very lonely in management, so I better work things out with her. The next thing you know management is posting on the forum to me in passaive aggressive ways, they were also doing this on the managers foirum. I started to get it, per say.

If I wanted to stick around I must take their abuse...it is called Relational Aggression, teenage girls most often use this, but so can adults. The bullying until you either act as they want you to or leave. Well I left, I gave up my management position. I did faulter at one point I considered going back into management but in the end I left management. The next thing you know they are posting up on the MSN forum, not naming me but saying a member of management has been banned because they were stealing IP adresses, and that I was a cyberstalker. How could I steal IP addresses when I had no access to IP address on the MSN forum? Maybe Femfree and Windsong had access to IP's but I did not.

They locked the whole forum so the only way you could post there was for you to apply to be a member, they did this so I could not speak the truth. They posted and posted about how I was this bad cyberstalker. what I learned later and as you can see from Windsongs post that other members of management were the ones doing all that stuff and they blamed me, it was projection and scapegoating. Yes I knew it was not true but what a horrible thing to do to someone, to broadcast on the internet that someone is a cyberstalker.

Windsong, also did it on her other furum, someone asked about me and Windsong said I was a piece of shit cyberstalker, right on her forum for the whole world to see. I know she was again projecting but not a nice thing to do, plain sick....the behavior is just plain cruel. You set up a site for abuse surviros and you target someone, on purpose.

There was some fight between Femfree and Windsong they did it online. Each went to their forums. MSN was closed and another forum was created with Femfree and another manager from MSN. In a way I needed closure, I went to that forum, told them who I was and I was going to post there. I even talked with the other forum manager, I shook hands per say. She said that during that time, when all the stuff was going down at MSN, she was getting bullied, ok, to a point I understand that but standing by and not doing anything is that right? People make mistakes.

I posted for a few months on that new site and then it happen again, the same way, everything starting falling into place, same manager posted a passaive aggressive message to me. This time I got angry, my fault, I triggered. I know she pushed my button on purpose to see how I would react. Then it started, this manager named off everything I was doing wrong, and then told me I had mispercention of her, I was getting it all wrong.

Next thing you know this manager is posting a post about "how not to do do stuff on the forum" a public slap. That is a huge thing with abuse, you publiclly humiliate someone, like the posts about being a cyberstalker, that is saying "I HAVE THE POWEr AND YOU CAN'T DO A THING ABOUT IT"

So I left the forums, again on my own, they banned me again, what the heck? I leave and they ban me. I deleted some of my posts before I left. That is to say again "WE HAVE THE POWER" To then say nasty stuff, blame me when they do something..again I really understand this it is the scapegoating and projection but it is just insane behavior.


ANart,

So to answer you about ME healing me, YES. I have wounds that have let me fall into these situations, wounds from my childhood, abandonment wounds. That is why I felt the need to go back to that insane environment at the forums.

And as Laura stated, there are lessons there...for me many lessons. I may understand those lessons, in my head and be able to get them but until I can heal the wounds emotionally, I will keep falling into those situations. How can I help someone else, when I myself have to heal. That is what I was posting about.

The people, if there are really others that run those forums they all have behaviors that are not healthy as well. I got very nasty e-mails from Windsong, I mean nasty, naming calling ones. When I sent commuincations to them I was wanted to know what was going on, I did not call them pieces of shit, nasty bitches. That is what I got from Windsong and then was told later "That is Windsong, she does that" And that is someone who cares about abuse survivors?

So, I will work on me, stay away from those sites, just posting this I am sure they will all get angry, they are watching this thread I know that. They will show who they are, they are already probably posting stuff and blaming me.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho,

I've had thoughts about the saturation of SV on the internet. I think he bombards the internet with his version of NPD so that other discussions, schools of thought are buried underneath his version, his rhetoric. It seems to me that he (or others like him) just can't stand for a discussion about narcissism to be going on without them, and they would rather host than be a bystander. I saw this when I participated in a long-running thread about narcissism on another site. Links were posted, but none of them about SV. Near the beginning of the thread, one of the unofficial moderators tried to dominate the conversation, but was politely ignored. Ironically, the thread had been revived by a poster that had been the target of his bullying and scapegoating. Periodically, that thread was trolled by "newbies", to distract from the direction the conversation was taking, IMO. It was fascinating to watch. The conversation did veer into antics of narcissists on sites. One of the things I posted was

_http://www.answerbag.co.uk/q_view/476
"In response to this question - "What is the fastest way to build a community on a site forum/discussion board?
Good Q. There are many ways to build a community. I have listed some below. Good Luck.
1. Provide a service that keeps your visitors coming back. This may include free HOSTED services such as Hit Counters or Guestbooks. .....
2. Allow for easy search and navigation. It has been proven that if first time visitors cannot quickly get to where they want to go, they will not come back!. For example, Have a top navigation menu, and a bottom menu at the same time, Just incase.
3. Add your site/forum/community to popular search engines. ....
4. If push comes to shove, Make one or two "fake" accounts and post, post, post! ;) Might sound immoral or bad but if visitors see action, they are likely to participate.."

The traffic at that site had decreased and the trolling was more and more obvious. Discussion about trolling, site endorsed trolling and the possible reasons for it ensued. Shortly after, I had trouble with my pc. I could tell that someone or thing had gotten into my email, and my hard drive crashed not long after that. I was eventually spotlighted by moderation of the forum, with the official site coordinator posting that I was brilliant but paranoid delusional and sick. When I did not respond on the site, other than to say goodbye to a couple of folks, I received angry emails from her- which I did not respond to. Clotho, I'm glad I read your posts. The interesting thing about the public shaming this Site Coordinator tried to heap on me is that only one person stood up for me, calling the SC on shaming tactics. She was banned, too. Most everyone left after that- I think the lesson the SC was trying to teach was learned, but maybe SC took it too far, underestimating the intelligence of a group of people in pain.

From the similarities in our experiences, I wonder if SV or his henchpersons have a hand in running both sites, or if the behaviours are just similar. Deja vu for me -feels just like home.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Filachi,

Deja vu for me -feels just like home.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself.
~Friedrich Nietzsche

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For me what I realized is that all the analyzing in the world, about what SV' and his staff are doing, what they
have done, well that keeps me in the double bind. I voiced what happen. If I continue to analyze, continue to say "Hey they are doing such and such or they did that" well that keeps me under their power and control.

ACCEPTANCE, they are who they are.

Matthew 10:26 "So have no fear of them; for nothing is covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.

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Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Filachi and Clotho, I would highly recommend that ya'll read "Political Ponerology". There are a lot of excerpts here on this forum, used most often when we encounter the very behavior you are describing. Yes, "poltics" is in the title, but if you think about it, about any "power system", even a discussion board, can be "political." So the comparisons are useful.

A forum member sent me a copy of the documentary about Sam, "I, Psychopath," and despite the fact that the film was done in a very annoying style, it was VERY revealing. I've been saying for years that Sam Vaknin is NOT a narcissist in the sense that the therapeutic community thinks of it, but that he is a "successful" or "ambulatory" psychopath. Seems that the experts agree with me.

Apparently, from info I've received from other "insiders", was that Sam had the idea that the film was going to "glorify his work on narcissism." He had the idea that he was going to be tested, of course, and that it would validate his self-diagnosis of NPD. The film maker may have had that idea at the beginning, of course, but it sure morphed.

Anyway, at one point during the testing process, the shrink in charge of that segment makes a comment about Sam's credentials and he got very hostile. I think at that point, he realized that things really weren't going the way he wanted them to go in the filming process. He went on about his thesis, the thing about the library of congress (or whatever), the "realness" of the uni where he got his Ph.D. and so on. All this was on film.

The filmmaker, however, was a bit nonplussed by this demonstration of rage and was sure he remembered Sam saying something else about his credentials on camera. So, he went back through all the footage and, sure enough, there was Sam saying right out that he got his "Ph.D." from a diploma mill, that it was basically fake. So, that clip is included.

I think that Sam was genuinely shocked when the diagnosis came in that he was a real, walking, talking, psychopath and had, in fact, scored higher than a lot of psychopaths in prisons!

In the end, his dream of being lionized as a real narcissist who had the REAL Scoop on narcissism, thus validating all his ranting and writing and whatnot, was crushed with the real diagnosis.

The thing is, Sam Vaknin and his operation is a classic example of "Political Ponerology" though on a much smaller scale. Another thing that is true, I think, is that many so-called Narcissists receiving the "diagnosis" are really just a class of psychopaths.

Sure, narcissism - narcissistic behavior - can be typical of anybody, and not a permanent or pervasive feature of their personality, so care needs to be taken to distinguish between behavior that is not rooted in personality, and a pervasive, unchanging, way of seeing and interacting with the world that is narcissistic.

Well, I went on longer than I planned. Just wanted to suggest reading some of the stuff here on the forum about psychopathy/narcissism, Ponerology, etc. There is a spectrum of psychopathy, I think, and narcissism is on that spectrum.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho,



I agree. Peace came for me when I knew it was time to step off. I still read now and then because, for as far away as I have moved from home, I do have to go back once in a while. I appreciate Laura's reading recommendations. My mother is still alive and kickin and now we are into third generation. Trickle down "N".

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho said:

ACCEPTANCE, they are who they are.

Click to expand...

And they are doing what donkeys do!

kenlee said:

The Goban Saor: 'What Donkeys Do'

Once the Goban was in the Tabhairne (tavern) drinking mead as usual. At the next table a rowdy group - led by Cairbre O Loingsigh, the sea-captain's son - was loudly recapitulating the Goban's various adventures and misadventures.

The stories invariably ended in roars of laughter. The whole idea was to show what a foolish and ridiculous character the Goban was.

They kept glancing gleefully and maliciously in the Goban's direction, but he paid no attention whatsoever. In fact, he seemed completely unconcerned and even gave the impression that the thoughts running through his head were of a pleasant nature.

Gradually - since they were getting no response - the rowdy group's joviality seemed to run down and they became quieter and quieter . Some continued to glance maliciously over at the Goban, but now frustration clouded some faces , others seemed puzzled or annoyed.

At last , Conaill Mac Carthaigh , the tavern-owner - his curiosity aroused - wandered over to the Goban and said : "Goban : did you not hear what those layabouts were saying about you ? Aren't you going to do something about it ?"

Suddenly the whole tavern went quiet, waiting for the Goban's response:

Blinking, as if coming out of a dream, the Goban said: "..Well, now, tavern-keeper, if I'm walking along the road of an evening, minding my own business, and an 'oul donkey leans over a gate and brays at me, I'm not going to get upset, am I? Because that's what donkeys do ..!"

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Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Laura,

Thank you, I have read "Political Ponerology" before. There are power systems everywhere.

I think that Sam was genuinely shocked when the diagnosis came in that he was a real, walking, talking, psychopath and had, in fact, scored higher than a lot of psychopaths in prisons!

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I feel that there are mini Hilters running around this world everywhere, I truly believe that we all have N traits as you stated, good Nism is needed yet I believe that it is a vicious cycle, I believe that parents were abused as children and they do not heal their wounds and they just keep the cycle going with their children. I believe that the parents are the ones that turn their children into pyschopaths. Our childhood experiences are what shape us and mold us into what we become as adults. Hilter was severly abused as a child, he took on his parents hate and anger. For the longest time I wondered "How the heck can someone get all these people to do all these horrible things?"

Like a cult leader, "How do they get all these followers?" Cause they are able to tap into individuals past wounds. Hilter himself denied anything about himself, the bad. Cause Hitler and like many people we go through life living out our pasts, our subconcious is what drives us. Nism is a defense mechie against the past, I believe that being a pyschopath is also a defense mechie, against the past. Hilter had hatred for Jewish people because his family blamed a Jewish family for their misfortune, yes I know it seems such a large scale to go from waging war on one family to millions but look at the world now, you can not turn the TV on without hearing almost every couple of minutes about a murder or murders.

Look at Ted Bundy, look at all the woman he killed or almost killed, he was going after woman that fit a certain look, that was that of a woman in his past who he percieved had rejected him. And I bet if you compared that woman to his mother they probably had huge similarites. And if he would have not gotten caught, think of how many more others he would have harmed. As SV has quoted he was hurt by a woman, so he hates all woman, he takes pleasure in abusing all woman...just like Hitler who took pleasure in torturing and killing all Jewish people. I see this, I see that Hitler and all the pyschopaths of the world are just trying subconsciously to heal their pasts, they subconsciously think that if they can defeat individuals who they project to be their enemies than they will heal. Hard pill to swallow cause, why should I be anyones punching bag?

Well for me, that is where I also see that I myself have tried to heal my past, that is why I married an N, that is why I was drawn to those sites. I have an N/P mother and my father was N/P as well. If those that are like my parents can accept me than my parents accept me.

That is where there is that double bind, you get a pyschopath/disordered person and someone who has had that disorder in their past and WAM you have that cycle continuing. For me, I believe that we all have to go through things, we have chooses, sometimes we do not see those chooses, we maybe clouded with the brainwashing and conditioning and sometimes, there is denial, denial is the the biggest human defense mechie, denial keeps us locked, like when a target of abuse says "I have to stay for the kids sake" or "He will change". Denial is a biggie to work through, the target and the abuser both utilize denial. Like Hitler who denied ever being what we now think of as a monster, well in his mind he was just that little abused boy striking back at what he percieved to be what had made his life so horrible. Again, hard pill to swallow, I do not like the fact that my N/P mother and father abused me, my whole family, yet I am a strong wonderful soul, I am overcoming my past so that I can live in the present, so I DO what my soul was truly meant to do.

That is all I may do, is do for me and in doing that possibly other souls will follow their own paths as well ;)

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Clotho,

Would you please elaborate on this:

good Nism is needed

Click to expand...

It's unclear to me.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Filachi,

I agree. Peace came for me when I knew it was time to step off. I still read now and then because, for as far away as I have moved from home, I do have to go back once in a while. I appreciate Laura's reading recommendations. My mother is still alive and kickin and now we are into third generation. Trickle down "N".

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Everyday, I pick up a book and just open it up and read a few pages, I believe in signs, so whatever page I happen to open it up too, for me I believe that is what I am meant to hear for that day. My favorite is Joseph Campbell's work but today for some reason, I open M. Scott Peck's "The People of the Lie" I read a passage he had quoted from Dr. Erich Fromm:

Our capacity to choose changes constantly with our practice of life. The longer we continue to make the wrong decisions, the more our heart hardens; the more often we make the right decision, the more our heart softens—or better perhaps, comes alive.

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Ahh, this is actually on the lines of what Joseph Campbell writes about, Campbell speaks about "The Hero's call to adventure" and if the hero ignores the call i.e. what the hero's soul is meant to do, than everything seems to dry up, everything seems to go wrong, the hero feels defeated per say in life.

I was curious about Dr. Erich Fromm so I looked him up and found this story I wanted to share with you, I too come from an abusive family, I have N/P parents, I have stepped away from my family, I choose like you have to end the cycle of abuse for a generation, I empathize about working out everything inside you, it is tough, but I am finding so worth it :)

A grandfather and grandson were out hunting one early morning, and they came upon a ridge on the mountain.... over the ridge was a large clearing below, where at a distance, they could see two wolves fighting furiously.

They watched as the wolves attacked each other in battle. The grandfather narrowed his eyes, and said slowly, "Ah, yes.... this is the way with all of us Human Beings, within our hearts, each and every day."

The grandson asked, "What do you mean, grandfather?", to which the old one replied; "Always in our hearts, every day, is a struggling battle, like those two wolves down there.... one is the wolf in us who wishes to do bad things, and the other is the wolf who wishes to do good and honorable things."

The grandson listened more intently now, with a look of slight recognition, and deep concern. The grandfather continued...."Sometimes, the bad one seems to win.... and other times, the good one seems to take a stronger lead. When we see honorable people who do great deeds, and make great sacrifices for the good of others, we know that the good wolf's spirit is strong within his heart, and is the winning spirit in that Human Being. Each good and honorable deed he does gives this spirit more power within him. This in turn, empowers the Human Being to be more honorable."

The boy smiled, as the grandfather continued to speak...."But when we see those people who turn to badness, and hatred, doing terrible and dishonorable things, we can know that the bad wolf within him is strong - and each bad and wrongful deed he does, gives the bad wolf more power over him, until it has won, and has utterly consumed him."

The young one's face fell with a look of slight, shuddering inner fear.

So the boy thought long and hard on these things, as he continued to watch the wolves battling below. They both battled fiercely, giving no quarter - neither one backing down. Seeing this, he looked within himself, and saw the truth of his wise grandfather's words, and it made him very concerned for himself with a great, deep fear.

"But grandfather," said the boy, "How will I know which wolf will win within me??"

The grandfather smiled, looked at him with an understanding eye, and after a moment, told him, " ....the one that you FEED."

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_http://sermons.trinitycoatesville.org/2009/02/jesus-spirit-within-us.html

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Mountain Clown,

Would you please elaborate on this:


good Nism is needed

It's unclear to me.

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Healthy Nism, if you do a search for it you will find out more about. :) We all have Nism in us, it is human nature, we need healthy Nism to have healthy self-confidence, healthy self-esteem. Unhealthy Nism is about hating yourself and using others to feed your self esteem and self confidence. Healthy Nism is truly knowing that everything you need is within yourself, not crushing others, but loving yourself.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

PepperFritz,

That story about the Goban, thank you :)

Trinity: Because you have been down there Neo, you know that road, you know exactly where it ends. And I know that's not where you want to be.
~The Matrix

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The story of the Goban, I feel everyone can emapthize with, everyone has had a situation where they have felt shamed, blamed and outcasted by someone or a group. It is called Relational aggression. I know it all too well, to my family, I was always the outsider, trying so hard to fit in and they utilized tactics just like that. SV's forum projected that same situation, I believe we continue to fall into patterns. for me it was that of trying to gain acceptace, I took things personally, cause I was conditioned too, I see that now, that whole thingy about the cyberstalker thing was a farce, I left the forums and they wanted to pull me back in, what better way than to slam me, then they have me, trying to defend myself..."Got ya locked in"

Well, I got it the second time around, I got my lightbulb, I understand it did not have anything to do with me. And that is why I also see no need in saying bad things about them. No judgements, just acceptance.

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Nism appears to be some kind of net-lingo, found in discussions involving NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) as well as some Psychopathy discussions.
Judging by context, it appears to be a shortened version of the word 'narcissism', by which the user of the word seems to be saying: "a little bit of narcissism is good for you."

Is that correct, Clotho?


References:

The link immediately below is a discussion on NPD with S.V. as a participant: (Posted: Sun Oct 05, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: Narcissism by Proxy, although this quote isn't by S.V.):

It is normal to have healthy Nism in you...the self esteem, the ability to know you are worth so much.
_http://thepsychopath.freeforums.org/anyone-have-fears-of-becoming-like-their-n-t10045.html

...View life like you are the prize and people are working to win it.. nothing wrong with a little healthy Nism if you know your doing it and your not hurting people k?

NARCISSISTIC_PERSONALITY_DISORDER (A closed-down MSN Group)
... fun, compassionte person and I do have a sense of humor. Great thread...keep spreading the love-we all need a bit of healthy Nism! ...

Even healthy Nism is BAD Kyra, you posted healthy Nism makes you sick, of course it does, fear was put into you, the cycle of abuse conditioned you that you will never be healthy.
_http://www.runboard.com/bnarcissisticabuserecovery.f1.t6057%7Coffset=10

Change, IT'S ALL ABOUT YOU...you take care of YOU...healthy Nism is what we need..YOU LOVE YOU.
_http://www.runboard.com/bnarcissisticabuserecovery.f5.t1131

Re: Sam Vaknin - Narcissist or Psychopath?

Buddy said:

Nism appears to be some kind of net-lingo, found in discussions involving NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder) as well as some Psychopathy discussions.
Judging by context, it appears to be a shortened version of the word 'narcissism', by which the user of the word seems to be saying: "a little bit of narcissism is good for you."

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Interesting. It sounds like quite the pathological twist - normalizing pathology. Ultimately it's also basically saying that inner considering is 'good for you' - nothing like priming the populace, especially those already damaged, for the normalization of pathology - it's even 'good for you' now, I mean, come on, everyone's doing it!!! Can't beat 'em, join 'em, right?

In short, if you've been damaged by narcissists, which most psychologically normal human beings have, to one extent or another (ponerization) then the advice is to embrace your narcissism (or become more narcissistic) to prove that one is strong or has self-esteem - - that's really sick. However, that's pretty much the platform for STS isn't it - the hierarchy, the competition, the take what is yours, the look out for number one. Why does the phrase 'the earth benefits from a periodic cleansing' keep coming to mind when such examples of the pathology of modern society rear their ugly heads?

I would like to posit an alternative premise - "a little Nism is assimilation" - "a little Nism is losing your soul" = "a little Nism is denying the core of your humanity" - or even "a little Nism can't get much more STS".

Actually, it really is a great example of ponerization that such a phrase has become so embedded on narcissistic support sites, but that's how 'they' work, isn't it?

[no offense intended to you, Clotho - I'm directly addressing the phenomenon, not you, nor your endorsement of it]