Smoking is... good?

Yupo said:
Did he explain why? If so, could you share the explanation here? Because many testimonies so far indicate that smoking actually protects lung alveolars from damage by substances like asbestos and other.

He did. I don't want to get into a paraphrased explanation here because I can't be sure of accuracy since memory is not perfect and it has been a long time. I will ask around to see if any of my old classmates recorded/transcribed these lectures. I remember seeing lecture slides with different types of fibers in tissues. Some fibers are a lot worse than others (or so I was taught) but details like which ones I can't remember. Call me brainwashed, but I believe this to be true. I am open minded enough to look at contradictory information on this subject, however.

The subject has interested me in a small way since then. I make a note (to self) of patients that report Asbestos related disease and disability to me. It isn't something I ask about specifically. I have ever seen a case of this in which the individual was not also a smoker. Small sample, though. Maybe 2-3 people a year in a 30 year career.

My intention in contributing to this thread is to provide some information for a balanced perspective that many might not have seen or heard about. Just networking. I'm not saying anyone here should quit smoking or that smoking is all bad. Like with most things, there is some good and some not so good is my belief.

Malignancy etiology is probably way more complex than anyone can imagine.

A little late in having a more focused look at what you said, Yupo - I don't have answers, yet fwiw, as per what is in bold above, there are two categories of asbestos (amphibole and serpentin) fibers, such as the blue type (crocidolite) and the brown's (amosite) of which both are of the amphilole family. This family is cited as being scaled worse (for health) than lets say chrysotile fibers, and it is chrysotile that makes up much of the consumer/industrial products (including house building products) where exposures result (the older brake linings, boiler wrapping, textured ceilings etc.). These asbestos types are not always assured in products, depending on where industry sourced the asbestos, yet products are most often associated with these likley types of asbestos. There are other sub asbestos types in the two categories mentioned.

Not sure if you caught it, however, a few pages back there was a link to the study by Berry and Liddel that looked at these smoking issues, and than further it was noted that the rise in glutathione seemed to be consistent with smoking and reduced asbestos related disease of those who were exposed; I was surprised at first, yet the rise in glutathione made some sort of sense. I was surprised, too, because that is what one always hears, so I don't imagine those studies are popular in certain circles; and perhaps they are not all correct either. Nonetheless, from your work, and you see things as said, you likely well know that asbestosis and mesotheliomas are the two most discussed effects of asbestos exposure, with the latter perhaps not so empirical (alleged effects) due to it being more strongly suggestive in publications.

Anyway, so in most discussion one reads on asbestos disease, they seems to always point to smoking as a causative contributor of said diseases (and you said you could see a correlation), yet I'm starting to question that based on the presents of glutathione when smoking, and its ability in coating the lungs in a protective manner from particulates (perhaps even against silica i.e. silicosis, and other particulates too). I'm just speculating here that the studies that are in favor of asbestosis being increased with smoking being the contributor, just may have some flaws of data, as many smoking studies do, yet I've not spent enough time looking deeply at it. Nonetheless, one example could be that those that work with asbestos; workers, may in their lives have been exposed to other toxins that have either directly contributed or weakened their systems to have allowed for it. Another might be that there is generally a 20 - 30 year time delay from initial exposure of asbestos and the development of asbstosis or mesotheliomas. In North America (as a generality) house products containing asbestos stopped that production in the mid 80's. Working with people in trades going back to the pre 80's, there was a high percentage of workers that smoked then. If workers who then developed the above diseases were asked if they smoked, statistically that would be high in a statistically high population of smokers back then. On the other hand, of all those exposed who never developed said diseases and did smoke, did smoking help? Seems to me that there needs to be many questions asked; what were the exposures, over how many years and what types of asbestos - and many more questions.

One other thing to possibly consider is that asbestos fibers from natural sources (depending within what geoclimatic area and season of influence); albeit in lower fibers per cubic centimeter (f/cc), fibers are essentially in the everyday outdoor air we breathe (and of course indoors, especially if asbestos is part of the structure/products), and is continually made airborne by our winds (or indoors by our ventilation systems and disturbances). So outdoors it exists naturally in and on soil surfaces, and is made more prevalent when it drys and becomes aloft. The point being is that humans are constantly being exposed to asbestos, there is no real avoiding it, yet commercial usage or localized product exposures indeed was or in some part of the world is tremendously high.

Concerning data regarding smoking's contribution to disease, I'm often at an impasse a) because there are many benefits that are documented for some people and, b) it seems that there are so many variants in peoples lives and their day to day exposures that are not looked at or not recorded in studies. An asbestos example of this is that in more serious asbestosis cases, it is said to be accompanied with a breakdown in the immune system. Well that would be logical, however, as discussed above, there are a great deal of factors that could help compromise ones immune system, perhaps smoking is somewhere on the list for some people, yet there is much more here than smoking it would seem, and smoking is the red flag they like to use - if you ask they question and they say yes, I smoked, nothing much else is asked; its a done deal.

It's a curious thing at this point, this data relationship with disease and smoking, and hope to learn more.
 
Yupo said:
By casual observation, I have seen many, many times that a lung cancer appears soon after an individual stops smoking. I have never seen a study on the subject (never looked for one either). I suspect that the smoke inhibits growth of the tumor growth in some way.

I don't know if I would call this a "study", but it is interesting. What caught my eye was table 2. This may fit in with the former smokers who develop lung cancer casual observation you made.
I don't know how much to 'believe' what this reports, for example CDC thinks anyone who smoked 5 packs of cigarettes in their life, but no longer smokes, is a 'former smoker' seems ridiculous to me
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5644a2.htm
 
Today was my first encounter with a 'neutral pack' of tobacco :
I asked for FAIRGREEN, the only organic tobacco available in France that I know of (growing in Poland and manufactured in Germany).
A dark-green pack was handled to me, with a picture of a woman splitting blood on a white towel, and the name of the brand hardly visible with nothing more to read.
100% tobacco? Organic? How much nicotine or tar etc.? Nothing!
So that you don't even know any more what you are purchasing.
It seems somehow illegal to me, but what can we do about that?
Any lawyers around , or people in the know, to give advices about how to deal with this situation in order to have basic information written on these new packs?..
 
anarkist said:
Yupo said:
By casual observation, I have seen many, many times that a lung cancer appears soon after an individual stops smoking. I have never seen a study on the subject (never looked for one either). I suspect that the smoke inhibits growth of the tumor growth in some way.

I don't know if I would call this a "study", but it is interesting. What caught my eye was table 2. This may fit in with the former smokers who develop lung cancer casual observation you made.
I don't know how much to 'believe' what this reports, for example CDC thinks anyone who smoked 5 packs of cigarettes in their life, but no longer smokes, is a 'former smoker' seems ridiculous to me
http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5644a2.htm
"**Any smoking related chronic disease" is fishy to me as they are determining what a smoking related disease is, such as cardiovascular diseases, but looking under the row for cardiovascular diseases(ie. coronary heart disease) the rate for smokers is much lower, perhaps compensated by the higher rates for respiratory diseases?

TABLE 2.
Estimated age-adjusted prevalence of current smokers*, former smokers+,and never smokers@ among US adults aged >=18 years, by chronic disease status
National Health interview Survey, United States, 2006

Current smokers* Former smokers + Never smokers @
Disease % (95% Cl~) % (95% CI) % (95% CI)

Any smoking-related chronic disease ** 36.9 (34.2-40.0) 26.0 (23.6-28.5) 37.1 (34.3-40.0)
Malignant neoplasms
Lung 20.9 (9.5-39.8) 61.2 (41.5-77.9) 17.9 (8.0-35.6)
Other cancers ++ 38.8 (32.0-46.1) 33.2 (26.3-40.9) 28.0 (22.2-34.7)

Cardiovascular disease
Coronary heart disease @@ 29.3 (23.2-36.2) 31.8 (25.7-38.6) 38.9 (33.7-44.4)
Stroke 30.1 (22.6-38.8) 23.0 (17.8-29.1) 47.0 (38.4-55.8)

Respiratory disease
Emphysema 49.1 (40.1-58.2) 28.6 (21.8-36.5) 22.3 (13.6-34.3)
Chronic bronchitis 41.1 (37.4-45.0) 20.0 (17.4-23.0) 38.9 (34.9-43.0)

Other chronic disease ^^ 23.0 (21.9-24.1) 23.5 (22.5-24.5) 53.5 (52.2-54.9)
No chronic disease 19.3 (18.4-20.2) 16.4 (15.4-17.4) 64.3 (63.1-65.6)

*Persons who reported smoking at least 100 cigarettes during their lifetimes and who, at the time
of interview, reported smoking every day or some days.
+ Persons who reported smoking at least 100 cigarettes during their lifetimes but who currently did not smoke.
@Persons who reported never smoking 100 cigarettes during their lifetimes.
~ Confidence interval.
** lncludes smoking-related malignant neoplasms, cardiovascular diseases, and respiratory dis-
eases. Cigarette smoking has been identified by the Surgeon General as a cause of these
diseases (US Department of Heath and Human Service the health consequences of smoking:
a report of the Surgeon General. Atlanta, GA, US Department of Health and Human Services,
CDC; 2004).
"++includes cancers of the bladder; cervix; esophagus; kidney; larnyx-windpipe; mouth. tongue. or
lip; pancreas; stomach; and throat-pharynx"
@@includes coronary heart disease, angina pedoris, and myocardal irtarction.
œ^^includes chronic diseases that were not smoking related.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5644a2.htm
 
Thank you very much Anarkist.

At first I was very surprised and chocked to see these results. But then, I tried to see a pattern, something logical but it's not so simple.
Let's try to analyse these datas :

1. Any smoking-related chronic disease report looks like a lie. Smoker and non smoker have the same risk to develop this king of disease.
Maybe some of the non-smokers were passive-smokers but even if we accept this, it's still awesome.
What it appears as a non-sense here is the former smokers percentage. Why is it so low ? Hard to find a logical answer... Tabacco protection, then a stop just in time to avoid any disease ? Chance ?

2. The lung diseases confirm a discussed theory : for many smokers, the fact they stop smoking make them ill. The gap between smokers and formers is huge. I don't see any other explanation for the moment. It's pretty weird... or not.
Then, once again, the difference between smokers and non smokers is really weak.

3. Other cancers. Everything seems to be normal here or rather everything seems to be like we would expect it to be : smoking is more risky than non smoking and some formers were spared. But, to be honest, there is no a big gap between numbers.

4. Cardiovascular diseases. It's a big surprise and a thunder is the sky of anti-smoking campaign... According to these results, you cannot deny that tobacco avoid this kind of issues. But why ?

5. Respiratory diseases : not a surprise. Most of smokers use to say that it can be difficult for them to breath in good conditions while doing some sports. But once again appears a sort of non-sense with an issue called chronic bronchitis. Why the former smokers have such a good result comparing with non smokers ?

6. Other chronic and no chronic diseases : A total misunderstanding from most of people I think. In a general point of view, smoking appears to be a good point for protecting oneself against some diseases and the gap between numbers is pretty awesome and interesting.

I remind you that I never smoked and even if I'm not willing to do it for some reasons, I cannot deny the facts and the medical results as the people's stories.
Moreover, like I use to say, I don't believe in anything but I'm open to everything...

My current point of view is that smoking might be good for some of us but with mostly true tobacco and no with the normal cigarets.
Moreover, I would like to add that this kind of result is very interesting but what about the persons jobs ? We also know that each work brings its own pack of health issues. For example, some industry workers will be more exposed to Any smoking-related chronic disease even if they don't smoke becuase of what they breath all the day.
Then, the diet and general life behaviors is an important factor to pay attention for.

Anyway, these figures are very interesting and confirm a lot of points that have already been debated here.

Thanks again anarkist.
 
There is so much to say about this, much already said in other threads. The single biggest issue for me flows from the fact that there are no diseases which only smokers contract; i.e. there are NO so called "smoking related" diseases. Every one of these diseases has multiple risk factors that could cause them. If a smoker and a non smoker contract the disease, there is no way to prove that the smoker wouldn't have contracted the disease if he didn't smoke. The corollary to that is that most of these "smoking related" diseases are diseases of old age. To explain that, Tobacco Control tell us that there is a 20+ year gap between somebody smoking and the lung cancer (for example) appearing. So how can they be certain that one of the many other risk factors - genetics, diet, radioactivity, pollution, lifestyle. occupation, stress etc - didn't cause the disease. Again there is no way to causally link the disease to smoking.

The other major issue is that all the so called data trotted out by the CDC, WHO and their ilk is based on epidemiological studies, based on the statistical manipulation of data from observational studies based on questionnaires. I can set up a questionnaire to get any result I want based on what questions I ask, how I ask them, what questions I don't ask, and then cherry pick the data according to my biases. How can a questionnaire based study account for all of the multiple risk factors? Frankly it is not possible. Epidemiology as practiced today is a sham science which produced results tailored to the requirements of the funding partner. And when studying diseases with multiple risk factors you cannot establish a causal relationship using epidemiology. At best you can establish correlations, but all that does is provide a basis for clinical trials to test whether the correlation amounts to anything. What we say today is that a test presents some correlation between smoking and say, diabetes, and the study is published wit a headline telling the world that smoking causes diabetes. it is a sickening fraud and a sham.

The other interesting numbers are the deaths attributed to smoking - they are all estimates based on dodgy epidemiological results. There are no death certificates written with smoking as the cause of death. Smoking doesn't kill people, diseases do.
Nobody sits around counting actual deaths because it is too difficult and impossible to know. The numbers are estimates based on CDC or WHO data, which is based on junk science and completely unreliable. Nonetheless, people hear it and accept it as gospel.
 
Hey guys!

I've been feeling the desire to start smoking for some time recently and was not sure whether I should do it.
Btw, I am 30 and have never smoked a cigarette before..until yesterday :cool2: :D
Must be all that stress from work, I was thinking "Cigarette would relax me now for sure.." although I couldn't know that since I hadn't smoked before. It is strange to have urge for something you don't actually know how it feels like, especially since my opinion was a big No to it.
I am planning on getting a natural tobacco, but I read that one should smoke a few packs first before switching to natural tobacco.
Therefore, I bought yesterday Sobranie gold and smoked my first cigarette! It felt strange, unknown and yet satisfying. I smoked the next one today, after lunch and want to limit myself to 1-2 cigarette per day. I don't feel an addiction (yet).

I remember that CS told Laura that there are people who benefit from smoking and that she is the smoker type . :)
I would like to hear an opinion from you, how can one know if he is the smoker type or not?
About genetics.. well neither my father or mother smokes nor have smoked before, but my grandmother and grandfather were smokers. And grandfather was a big smoker although never with cigarettes: just natural tobacco and pipe.
 
Flashgordonv said:
There is so much to say about this, much already said in other threads. The single biggest issue for me flows from the fact that there are no diseases which only smokers contract; i.e. there are NO so called "smoking related" diseases. Every one of these diseases has multiple risk factors that could cause them. If a smoker and a non smoker contract the disease, there is no way to prove that the smoker wouldn't have contracted the disease if he didn't smoke. The corollary to that is that most of these "smoking related" diseases are diseases of old age. To explain that, Tobacco Control tell us that there is a 20+ year gap between somebody smoking and the lung cancer (for example) appearing. So how can they be certain that one of the many other risk factors - genetics, diet, radioactivity, pollution, lifestyle. occupation, stress etc - didn't cause the disease. Again there is no way to causally link the disease to smoking.

The other major issue is that all the so called data trotted out by the CDC, WHO and their ilk is based on epidemiological studies, based on the statistical manipulation of data from observational studies based on questionnaires. I can set up a questionnaire to get any result I want based on what questions I ask, how I ask them, what questions I don't ask, and then cherry pick the data according to my biases. How can a questionnaire based study account for all of the multiple risk factors? Frankly it is not possible. Epidemiology as practiced today is a sham science which produced results tailored to the requirements of the funding partner. And when studying diseases with multiple risk factors you cannot establish a causal relationship using epidemiology. At best you can establish correlations, but all that does is provide a basis for clinical trials to test whether the correlation amounts to anything. What we say today is that a test presents some correlation between smoking and say, diabetes, and the study is published wit a headline telling the world that smoking causes diabetes. it is a sickening fraud and a sham.

The other interesting numbers are the deaths attributed to smoking - they are all estimates based on dodgy epidemiological results. There are no death certificates written with smoking as the cause of death. Smoking doesn't kill people, diseases do.
Nobody sits around counting actual deaths because it is too difficult and impossible to know. The numbers are estimates based on CDC or WHO data, which is based on junk science and completely unreliable. Nonetheless, people hear it and accept it as gospel.

I agree ith most of your words. Facts are facts as I said and we cannot deny it. Nonetheless, in another hand, we cannot say that smoking is totally safe.
It's just difficult to really know the impact on health because of the factors you mentionned.
I think that the additives they put on cigarets is negative at a certain point and especially for some people. Moreover, as we already know, even if we can affirm that smoking can be good for some people, we don't know the quantity to smoke and the way to do it safely and especially how we can identify the persons concerning by the positive effects.

For now, we still search for this kind of answers and we'll do it for a long time because it's pretty good for the system to make people think it's only catastrophic to smoke. But thanks to people around here, we can go on doing our best to discover the truth and find some patterns and interesting informations.

PerfectCircle said:
I remember that CS told Laura that there are people who benefit from smoking and that she is the smoker type . :)
I would like to hear an opinion from you, how can one know if he is the smoker type or not?
About genetics.. well neither my father or mother smokes nor have smoked before, but my grandmother and grandfather were smokers. And grandfather was a big smoker although never with cigarettes: just natural tobacco and pipe.

Personnaly, I don't want to smoke especially because I hate pipes and cigarets since I was a child : smell (mouth, hair, fingers, clothes, room...), taste (I have tested a cigaret once when I was very young), lack of knowledge about all of that but mostly because I simply don't feel that I should do it.

According to your message, you never smoked but you seem to feel the need to do it so maybe you're the "type". try to listen to your inner self and determine what you really want.

FWIW
 
Elohir said:
Flashgordonv said:
There is so much to say about this, much already said in other threads. The single biggest issue for me flows from the fact that there are no diseases which only smokers contract; i.e. there are NO so called "smoking related" diseases. Every one of these diseases has multiple risk factors that could cause them. If a smoker and a non smoker contract the disease, there is no way to prove that the smoker wouldn't have contracted the disease if he didn't smoke. The corollary to that is that most of these "smoking related" diseases are diseases of old age. To explain that, Tobacco Control tell us that there is a 20+ year gap between somebody smoking and the lung cancer (for example) appearing. So how can they be certain that one of the many other risk factors - genetics, diet, radioactivity, pollution, lifestyle. occupation, stress etc - didn't cause the disease. Again there is no way to causally link the disease to smoking.

The other major issue is that all the so called data trotted out by the CDC, WHO and their ilk is based on epidemiological studies, based on the statistical manipulation of data from observational studies based on questionnaires. I can set up a questionnaire to get any result I want based on what questions I ask, how I ask them, what questions I don't ask, and then cherry pick the data according to my biases. How can a questionnaire based study account for all of the multiple risk factors? Frankly it is not possible. Epidemiology as practiced today is a sham science which produced results tailored to the requirements of the funding partner. And when studying diseases with multiple risk factors you cannot establish a causal relationship using epidemiology. At best you can establish correlations, but all that does is provide a basis for clinical trials to test whether the correlation amounts to anything. What we say today is that a test presents some correlation between smoking and say, diabetes, and the study is published wit a headline telling the world that smoking causes diabetes. it is a sickening fraud and a sham.

The other interesting numbers are the deaths attributed to smoking - they are all estimates based on dodgy epidemiological results. There are no death certificates written with smoking as the cause of death. Smoking doesn't kill people, diseases do.
Nobody sits around counting actual deaths because it is too difficult and impossible to know. The numbers are estimates based on CDC or WHO data, which is based on junk science and completely unreliable. Nonetheless, people hear it and accept it as gospel.

I agree with most of your words. Facts are facts as I said and we cannot deny it.

I think the biggest issue is actually knowing what is fact and what is junk science propaganda
 
Flashgordonv said:
Elohir said:
Flashgordonv said:
There is so much to say about this, much already said in other threads. The single biggest issue for me flows from the fact that there are no diseases which only smokers contract; i.e. there are NO so called "smoking related" diseases. Every one of these diseases has multiple risk factors that could cause them. If a smoker and a non smoker contract the disease, there is no way to prove that the smoker wouldn't have contracted the disease if he didn't smoke. The corollary to that is that most of these "smoking related" diseases are diseases of old age. To explain that, Tobacco Control tell us that there is a 20+ year gap between somebody smoking and the lung cancer (for example) appearing. So how can they be certain that one of the many other risk factors - genetics, diet, radioactivity, pollution, lifestyle. occupation, stress etc - didn't cause the disease. Again there is no way to causally link the disease to smoking.

The other major issue is that all the so called data trotted out by the CDC, WHO and their ilk is based on epidemiological studies, based on the statistical manipulation of data from observational studies based on questionnaires. I can set up a questionnaire to get any result I want based on what questions I ask, how I ask them, what questions I don't ask, and then cherry pick the data according to my biases. How can a questionnaire based study account for all of the multiple risk factors? Frankly it is not possible. Epidemiology as practiced today is a sham science which produced results tailored to the requirements of the funding partner. And when studying diseases with multiple risk factors you cannot establish a causal relationship using epidemiology. At best you can establish correlations, but all that does is provide a basis for clinical trials to test whether the correlation amounts to anything. What we say today is that a test presents some correlation between smoking and say, diabetes, and the study is published wit a headline telling the world that smoking causes diabetes. it is a sickening fraud and a sham.

The other interesting numbers are the deaths attributed to smoking - they are all estimates based on dodgy epidemiological results. There are no death certificates written with smoking as the cause of death. Smoking doesn't kill people, diseases do.
Nobody sits around counting actual deaths because it is too difficult and impossible to know. The numbers are estimates based on CDC or WHO data, which is based on junk science and completely unreliable. Nonetheless, people hear it and accept it as gospel.

I agree with most of your words. Facts are facts as I said and we cannot deny it.

I think the biggest issue is actually knowing what is fact and what is junk science propaganda

Of course and to be more accurate I should have said that there are facts we cannot ignore. Besides, in order to help us we can pay special attention towards informations that go against the official point of view.
Then, this is the normal thing to do, search, check, share, discuss, debate, find the truth...
 
PerfectCircle said:
I would like to hear an opinion from you, how can one know if he is the smoker type or not?
About genetics.. well neither my father or mother smokes nor have smoked before, but my grandmother and grandfather were smokers. And grandfather was a big smoker although never with cigarettes: just natural tobacco and pipe.
In my opinion, I think that if you were a "smoker type" then starting smoking would be easy for you; perhaps you would even have started smoking already earlier in life?
I'm not sure. I can speak for my own experience where I found it really difficult to start smoking and it made me feel nauseous and light headed. I've gone through periods where I wold stop smoking for days, sometimes even months at a time with no cravings at all. It was really easy to simply stop. No one else in the generations above me in my family are smokers .
I smoke about 6 or 7 a day now quite easily and I'm finding it very enjoyable and relaxing; it certainly helps to deal with stress FWIW.
 
Nienna said:
Elohir said:
Of course and to be more accurate I should have said that there are facts we cannot ignore.

Which facts are those? Would you elaborate?

When I read your question, I thought "damned she's right, I say that without any exemple but what do I know about that ? Is that clear in my mind ?"
So I thank you for your question :)

In fact, since I read the session when the C's talked about the fact that smoking was not as bad as we thought, I started to be more open minded about that subject. I have always hated cigaretts and I fought against smoking so it was a big deal for me, trust me !

Today, I cannot be 100% sure that smoking is good but several sources and facts bring more and more credits on the false flag theory.

First, we have many arguments from the C's, for example the following one :

10-28-94
Q: (L) Is smoking detrimental to any of our bodies?
A: Not if mild. Not if mind is in right mode.
Q: (L) Does smoking enhance psychic abilities?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Is it true that the government program to stamp out smoking is inspired by the Lizzies?
A: Yes because they know it may heighten psychic abilities.
Q: (L) What is causing the lung cancer they are attributing to smoking?
A: Mental conditioning and subliminal programming to expect it.
Q: (L) So, it only happens if you are convinced that it can and must happen?
A: Correct.
Q: (L) Is there any particular brand of cigarettes to smoke?
A: No.

We stay free to believe or not this kind of thing but the best thing to do is searching in order to make our own idea.
I haven't read the 168 pages of this thread but I read quite a lot and it changed me...
I
The thread about smoking in this forum is huge and deal with a lot of informations : some doctors who advice some patients to smoke again when they're ill, the analysis about weight gain after quitting, the numerous stories about old people who smoked their whole life without any problem, the various studies about mechanisms of diseases origins... As Gaby said page 166
(...) there is an elephant in the room of smoking research

A lot of members talk about their own experience but they also bring interesting datas from several domains as anarkist and his table from a National Health interview Survey (United States, 2006).

I don't know if I have answered to your question Nienna but I hope I did even a little.


Finally, I think that it could be a good idea or maybe a fool one to make a synthesis of the material exposed in this thread. As a lot of threads in this forum, many datas are shared, discussed and debated but after a huge amount of pages, it begins difficult to catch and keep in mind the proper material.
Of course, when you want to learn, you need to search and work hard but even if time is an illusion, it could be usefull to gain some time sometimes :P
There is so much to learn and this forum contains so much datas that some threads should have a kind of synthesis or several after some pages.

FWIW
 
Thank you for your reply, Elohir.

The Cs have said that smoking is not for everyone. So I think that if you do not like smoking, or have never done it and have no desire to do it, then, smoking is not for you. And, as Flashgordonv said so much of the "scientific" research that has been done, is not really scientific at all.

As far as the rest of your post, I'll leave that to others to decide if they want to do that. There are some very good articles on SOTT about tobacco, too.
 
anarkist said:
Yupo said:
By casual observation, I have seen many, many times that a lung cancer appears soon after an individual stops smoking. I have never seen a study on the subject (never looked for one either). I suspect that the smoke inhibits growth of the tumor growth in some way.

I don't know if I would call this a "study", but it is interesting.

I think the explanation may be related to this:

Q: (L) What is causing the lung cancer they are attributing to smoking?
A: Mental conditioning and subliminal programming to expect it.
Q: (L) So, it only happens if you are convinced that it can and must happen?
A: Correct.

People who stop smoking do this usually because they came to think or believe that it is unhealthy. So they stop the "unhealthy habit", but may continue to think that they already damaged their body and sort of expect health problems.
 
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