The Games Narcissist Play

[Laura]

I read these posts quoted by the folks over at exposing online predators.  They were so good, and so descriptive of what we experienced at the hands of Vincent Bridges and his "gang" that I thought they ought to be shared with others here on the forum:

Creating camps

This is a bit like the old schoolyard dynamics. You'd have two gangs pitted against each other and each would try to steal the stronger members from the other and win them over to their own side. In many ways, narcissists have never left the school yard.

As one person falls out of favour with them, so they rush around rallying support against that person from everyone else, starting with their best source of supply and working down to the weakest. Anyone who does not fully agree with the narcissist is thrown into the bad camp with the original outcast.

This outcast state can continue for days, weeks, months or even years. It will end when the outcasts either have grovelled sufficiently or the narcissist has outcast someone else in his camp and needs to strengthen this inner circle again.

He calls the shots. He decides when you have been sufficiently punished and shown sufficient remorse and all of it is dictated by his own needs only. The king is in his kingdom.

Accusing you

The best form of defence is attack and the narcissist knows this all too well. It is one of his most widely used weapons, but he is so good at handling it that you could actually not even realise what it is.

We are accustomed to accusations being blatant, ugly assertions about us and these we recognise with ease. It is the more insidious accusations that catch us off guard and make us lose our balance. The narcissist will use either or both, depending on his end objective.

If he is trying to rattle you, hurt you, undermine you or shock you, there is a good chanc that he will come out with a blatant accusation. "You lied", "you stole", "you're having an affair".

If however he is playing the flip side of the coin, you will get the underhanded accusation that is designed to make you feel guilty and obligated and reduce you to putty in his hands. These accusations are normally said in a rather soulful way and if you breath in deeply you'll catch the distinct smell of burning martyr. Examples of this are, "you don't love me anymore", "you don't do as much for me as you used to" (or a specific variation of the theme), "your dog/cat/book/friend/family/whatever is more important to you than I am". - I think you get the idea.

These are accusations that don't feel like accusations because they are not said with aggression or anger and don't aim so much at what you are doing as what you aren't doing - namely making him the centre of your universe.

The reason that these are so effective is that instead of hooking defensive anger, they hook defensive guilt. A far more powerful behaviour in someone that you wish to control. Now, instead of insisting that he answer your question about where he was last night, you go rushing to the rescue. You feel the desperate need to reassure him that you do love him, he is important and you are so terribly sorry that your existence does not revolve around trying to make him feel good.

He has effectively achieved a few things here: made you feel guilty so that he can now manipulate you into doing for him, changed the subject competely, shifted focus fully back onto himself and made you the lesser person.

When it comes to angry projection though, we are dealing with an entirely different situation. This is the out and out bully. He is deliberately attacking you with the objective of achieving control through fear and anger. There is also a good chance that what he is really doing is manouvering you into a conflict situation. This person wants to have a go at you, but wants to be able to blame you for it afterwards. By provoking an argument, he can achieve that quite nicely.

By the time that the fight finally ends 3 hours later, the chances are that you will not even remember that it all began with you trying to defend yourself against a wrongful and probably very ugly accusation. Even if you did remember, you'd be so exhausted by the awful fight that ensued that you'd be loath to go back and address it to set the record straight.

He has now achieved a number of things. He has intimidated you, he has manipulated you, he has emotionally drained you, he has effectively used you as a verbal and perhaps even physical punch bag and, he has controlled you and further empowered himself.

Invoking fear and anxiety

In case you think that this does not apply in your situation, answer these simple questions:

Do you ever shut up just to keep the peace?

Do you ever find yourself waiting for "the right timing" to broach a subject with him?

Do you have things that you feel the two of you need to talk about, but you're too scared to raise them because you know that there is an excellent chance of a blow up if you do?

Are you keeping secrets from your friends and family regarding your life with this person, perhaps even lying to them because you know that if he found out you had spoken about it there would be hell?

Alternatively, are you keeping secrets from your friends and family regarding your life with this person, perhaps even lying to them because you know that they would be concerned for you and think less of him?

Do you feel as if you are walking on eggshells?

Do you go out of your way to keep him happy and deliberately try to avoid angering him - even at great cost to yourself?

If you said yes to any of these, you are being ruled by fear. You are a victim of blatant abuse.

Ultimately this is one of their key strategies for maintaining control because as long as you are too scared to speak up, you have no voice. While you have no voice, you have no say. While you have no say, they can do exactly as they please and they can even legitimately claim that you never objected.

Silence is consent with any type of abuser and this is society's view as well. If you didn't object, it automatically means you gave consent. A prime example of this is with rape. When a woman claims rape, the first thing she will be asked is, "did you very clearly say no?" - the fact that there was a knife at her throat seems to not even feature in the equation. It's pretty sick, but this is a victim's reality.

Playing with history

When all else fails, this is what they do. Put them in a corner about something that happened as recently as an hour ago and they will either tell you that they have no recall of it whatsoever or simply tell you that you are wrong. At this point they will be more than happy to go into great detail about what really transpired, which can be so blatantly untrue that it leaves you standing mouth agape.

They will claim to have said or done things that they didn't; claim that you did or said things that you didn't or simply rewrite the story entirely. In extreme cases they will even claim that the incident never happened at all.

One of the most shocking things to come out of my letter to my dad was that I not once mentioned or even alluded to anything physical, even though my dad had given us serious spankings. The kind that welts and bruises are made of. He in fact prided himself on his ability to inflict physical punishment that could make a grown man cry. Well, after receiving my letter, which had been completely silent on this issue (you can read it for yourself), he went out of his way to insist to all of us that he had never once raised a hand to any of us. He actually believed that he could successfully lead us to believe that we had all imagined it.

The fact that also he denied every other point I raised somehow paled in comparison to this.

[Laura]

More:

Projecting

Closely linked to hurling accusations is the fine art of projecting. This is both an awful thing to live with and a useful tool for you. I don't mean that you should start projecting. I mean that their projecting can be used to your advantage.

Remember that you are their mirror. The things that they accuse you of are the things that apply to themselves. By stepping back and trying to listen objectively instead of getting emotionally hooked, you can get a lot of insight into a narcissist and what he is up to (or is thinking of getting up to).

It goes one step further and this is something that I discovered by pure accident with the narcissists in my life. Give them hypothetical problem solving scenarios and listen carefully to their responses. You can get right inside their heads without them even realising it. While they think they are showing you how clever they are, they are in fact revealing themselves in a way that would make them cringe if they realised it. - For goodness sakes never tell them. They will furiously deny it and launch a massive attack against you.

An example of how this works: my dad regularly rants and raves about child abusers (amongst many other things). It is extremely interesting to catch him in one of his rants, listen with rapt attention (a sure way to get a narcissist where you want him for a brief while) and ask him questions like, "what do you think causes someone to abuse children?", "why would someone do (whatever your issue) to a child?", "How do we stop child abusers". The answers are astonishing. He will explain to you exactly how an abuser's mind works, what goads them, what they are trying to achieve, what would make them stop and what the most effective form of corrective action would be.

While he thinks he is stunning you with his amazingly astute insights into the human psyche, he is in fact giving you a very clear blueprint of himself. With clever questioning and prodding, you can glean an enormous amount of useful information. - Information that could at some point be your lifeline.

Lying
Narcissists are the most horrific liars and they are outstanding at it. They can come up with the most elaborate stories at the drop of a hat and they are extremely convincing. They can also take the smallest scrap of information or the most insignificant incident and masterfully weave it into a major event.

The wierdest thing is often the kind of things they lie about. Things that are ridiculous, where everybody was there and knows it's a lie. Or things where it is entirely inconsequential and really, the truth would have sufficed.

For them the truth is however seldom glitzy enough. Nothing in or about their lives is allowed to be mundane or average. It's either awesome and magnificently wonderful or it is magnificently awful. Nothing can simply "be".

One of their favourite uses for lying is to foster this illusion that everything about them is bigger and better. The parties that they go to are the best ever. Whatever doctor, specialist, advisor or even hairdresser that they use is some sort of "guru" - until they dump them for the next one, then the person will be the most incompetent ever. If you confront them about their sudden change of heart, there is a good chance that you will hear about how this person had mislead or deceived them, or how they had surprisingly "just changed" one day.

The narcissist's children attend better schools, they shop at better stores, their neighbourhoods are better. Their illnesses are more serious and more debilitating, their woes more woesome and their successes more noteworthy. They are the best at whatever they do and generally believe that they are not appreciated enough.

In order to support all of this they will embellish, fabricate, subtly distort the truth and finally, they will blatantly lie. - Oh, and they are the worst when it comes to name-dropping.

Perhaps they attended a gathering and a famous celebrity also happened to be there. Perhaps they were even introduced to the person. By the time that you get to hear of the incident, he and the celebrity are bosom buddies and the narcissist can happily regale you with tales of all their supposed experiences together.

If you ever do discover the lie you could learn that he had related someone else's tales as if they were his own, or perhaps in a moment of great creativity he had in fact come up with a totally original story all by himself.

Their greatest moments are however when cornered with past facts.

Speaking of facts - you can try confronting them with these and you'll most likely be told that someone else lied or misunderstood or perhaps it is even a conspiracy of sorts against them. They may even end up just dismissing you and changing the subject altogether.

Never, however, will they admit to the lie or concede to having incorrectly stated facts. They would rather weave a hundred even more implausible and ridiculous stories in an attempt to prove the initial lie.

[purplehaze]

Here's our favorite:

Saying sorry

Just because he never believes he could possibly be wrong does not mean that the narcissist never apologises. He is capable of every kind of display of remorse imaginable, from tossing out a sarcastic or casual, "I'm sorry" right through to crying and pleading with you like a devastated child.

With most abusers and particularly with narcissists, this is not a real apology, no matter how remorseful he may seem. It is a means to an end and no more.

What it really means is, "let's pretend this never happened so that I can do it to you again".

One of the talents that children of narcissists in particular tend to develop, is the ability to see what is really being done and hear what is really being said. We have spent our entire lives dodging the bullets and sheer survival has forced us to expend a lot of energy in trying to identify them before they hit. We can never dodge them, but we're a bunch of real die-hards who never stop trying. We just need to learn to trust our gut. - If it feels insincere, then it is. If it feels unbelievable, then don't believe it.

Our downfall however is that we are hopeless dreamers. We believe in fairy tales and a narcissistic parent is the biggest fairy tale you can get. We keep wanting desperately to believe.

A partner of a narcissist is not much different. You want so much to believe them because if you have to admit to yourself that it is all a lie, the dream will be shattered. The dream is all you've ever had. If that dies, you fear your very soul dying too.

The reality is that your soul won't die. The dream will. Some of your innocence and gullibility will, but so will the conflicts, the deception, the games, the vulnerability and the constantly recurring pain.

Every time that you believe his empty sorry, you are giving him permission to continue.

If you really want to give the relationship an honest chance, accepting his sorry should have conditions attached: - get professional help, stick with the programme and achieve a real change in attitude that reflects in behaviours.

If you demand or accept any less than this, you're going to keep living through the same old nightmare over and over again.

http://cosmicwalk.co.za/games-sorry.html

[OneSoul]

Laura, thank you again for putting your finger directly on an important issue. I like so many followed the twists and turns that you published from the Bridges episodes.

From my own studies and work I've begun to understand a little about how these individuals think and operate, and in my life have encountered people like this many times. In my family now this very dynamic is coming up again coincidently, and we are all having to deal with the familiar ( no pun intended ) deceits and subterfuge. The difference this time is that everyone whom this person is trying to manipulate is not going to allow it to happen again. We know the patterns and have seen that there are no limits to the deceit, so all are keeping their guard up.

There is a long list of writings that speaks to this type of STS view, including People of the Lie and many books that preceded and followed it. The book you have recommended, The Sociopath Next Door, was also helpful in coming to understand this behavior. So thank you again.

[Bo]

Interesting timing, much thanks to this post, I know some people who could use this very well.

[purplehaze]

http://www.cosmicwalk.co.za/narcissistic-traits.html

A great link for the TRAITS of these pathologicals

[SAO]

All of these are really, really helpful and timely, thanks for the posts! <3

[Laura]

Laura, thank you again for putting your finger directly on an important issue. I like so many followed the twists and turns that you published from the Bridges episodes.

From my own studies and work I've begun to understand a little about how these individuals think and operate, and in my life have encountered people like this many times. In my family now this very dynamic is coming up again coincidently, and we are all having to deal with the familiar ( no pun intended ) deceits and subterfuge. The difference this time is that everyone whom this person is trying to manipulate is not going to allow it to happen again. We know the patterns and have seen that there are no limits to the deceit, so all are keeping their guard up.

There is a long list of writings that speaks to this type of STS view, including People of the Lie and many books that preceded and followed it. The book you have recommended, The Sociopath Next Door, was also helpful in coming to understand this behavior. So thank you again.

Yes, a lot of people went through that ordeal with me once I decided that I just wasn't going to suffer in silence and shut up and be a good victim.   It's kinda funny, looking back now, how much we all learned from Vincent Bridges; and I'm sure that he didn't intend it the way it turned out.  

Most of us have a narcissist-lite or two in the family, some have the full-blown variety, but until this drama played out, I don't think that many of us had a clue about  what we were dealing with.  There's just nothing like seeing it up close and personal.

There was a lot of pain and suffering for a lot of people for awhile, but even that was a good thing.  After awhile, when you have to face reality day after day, have to face the fact that not everyone is a good person who intends to do good and tries to do good, that evil exists and it manifests most often in our world via pathological deviants, that they cannot be fixed, well, you become "inoculated" and gain a different perspective.  Not only that, but you realize that none of the rules of human interactions you always believed in even apply.  You don't forgive them, you don't forget, and that's not a bad thing.

It's like the post that purplehaze made on another thread, quoting a blogpost by Anna Valerious:

A Force of Nature
by Anna Valerious

If you've withheld forgiveness from the narcissists in your life then I am sure you have experienced some particular accusations. These come from the narcissist and their sympathizers. They accuse you of "refusing to forget the past", "holding a grudge", "being resentful", "not letting go".

Boy, do I ever know that one!  According to the Bridges gang, it's all my fault because I can't forgive and forget and let bygones be bygones and remove that pesky series of reports about Vinnie from the web!  What an evil, unforgiving, un-spiritual, vicious, vindictive person I am (according to them, forgetting that they are the ones that started the whole thing, carried it on for months before I decided that I was not going to be a victim).

One of my and my family's favs is "a heart full of hate". We erupt in gales of laughter when we conjure up that particular memory of my father's accusation in defense of my mother.

Narcissists have a very limited range of emotions. While being able to fake having a wider range of emotions, they really operate on an emotional level of an animal with the two primary motivating emotions of fear and anger (jealousy is a close third, but is really a combination of the other two). This is one reason they impute one of these two emotions to you when you are not behaving properly. They project their own emotional state or reactions to you. Which is why, when you calmly and firmly withhold absolution for their misdeeds, they immediately assume a negative.

Is it true? Is it inevitable that your decision to wait for someone to show true signs of confession, contrition, restitution and a firm resolve to not repeat the offense can only mean that you are a resentful, grudge-filled, vengeful, nasty person? Is it possible to withhold a gift of forgiveness while simultaneously living your own life with productiveness, happiness, and a clear conscience without bitterness?

You bet it is!  I was actually cracking up when I was reading Andy Rowland's rant about how I must be "seething"  (See this thread: http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=7398&p=1 )  As I wrote in a post in that thread:

"Well, there ARE some things that can make me seethe, but among them are not situations where people who are pathologically disturbed can't discern reality from their own wild and sick imaginings and produce truly bizarre and crazy theories about what I have or have not done or why.

"I know that Andy can't understand it but I just didn't manage to seethe, nor did I even take offense at his behavior.  Thankfully, I long ago got over being disturbed by such behavior because I took the time to do the research and to learn that people such as he is cannot help seeing the world through so distorted a lens - it's part of what Lobaczewski calls the "instinctive substratum".  Not only can he not help it, he cannot even see that his reality is distorted. "

Indeed, the assumption of the narcissists, sympathizers and Holy Joes is that you can't be a spiritual person with a clean conscience and a focus on the good things in life while withholding forgiveness. They are screwed up in the head so you can put their opinion on this in the trash.

Exactly.  They think it is "withholding forgiveness."  It isn't.  There's really nothing to forgive.  If a tornado destroys your house, do you feel that you need to forgive it?  Of course not!  It does what it does because it is what it is and you are there.  Well, of course, pathologicals are more directed, more conscious than a tornado, but not much.  They DO seek to prey on targeted individuals, but who knows if what makes a person a target is not similar to what attracts a tornado?

Lets look at it from healthy person's perspective.

Emotionally healthy people are realists. They are people who want to see reality, accept reality and live in reality. The realist has seen that the narcissist is not wanting a real gift of forgiveness, therefore the realist has accepted that truth and proceeded to live their life based on that truth. The realist doesn't have to be upset or angry about this reality because it never does any good to get pissed and stay pissed at reality for any length of time. Reality is. If you refuse to accept what is, you end up fighting truth.

Those are some powerful words put together there!

Not a good situation since, in the end, truth wins. The person I'm describing is able to depersonalize the behaviors and accusations of the narcissist because they've come to understand that the narcissist is not truth-based. Because an emotionally healthy person is only interested in truth-based reality, they don't take a lying narcissist at their word. When the narcissist starts hurling accusations the realist doesn't take them to heart once they've figured out that the narcissist is an inveterate liar.

In fact, this person is able to completely depersonalize the narcissist too. The realist thinks of the narcissist as a Force of Nature. Realists do not get angry at a force of nature. It would be senseless to do so. The force of nature is just what it is and it can't help what it is. It does what it does, wreaks its destruction, and moves on. The energy and effort of the realist is used to stay out of the way of the force of nature until it passes. When the hurricane threatens, the wise realist does all they can to protect them self and their family from the coming storm. They hammer boards over the windows and hunker down in the relative safety of their basement. When the hurricane comes knocking you don't run up and open the door to it. You don't invite the hurricane to dinner. You don't throw your kids out on the front porch to appease the hurricane in order to save yourself. Or, like the natives of certain tribes, throw your virgins into the volcano to stave off its rage and rampage. No, you simply do all you can to protect yourself and stay out of the path of a force of nature. Where is the resentment? Where is the grudge-holding? It doesn't even apply. You have simply come to recognize the truth about the narcissist; they are destructive forces and unsafe for humans. You do not try to reason with a force of nature. You don't try to placate it. You don't waste time hoping the force of nature will grow a heart. You get out of its way and stay out of its way. That is all you can do.

Amen and hallelujah, sister!  Reading something like that makes me feel downright sanctified!  But only with experience, research and knowledge does one arrive at this place.

In one significant way the narcissist differs from a tornado, hurricane, tidal wave, volcano, etc...a force of nature is not predatory. The narcissist is. And, unlike most predators in nature, narcissists are predators of their own kind making them a wholly unnatural creature. This reality only underlines the need to get out of the way of the narcissist's storm.

Here, I would like to make just one little adjustment: I really wonder if Narcissists - the real ones which I consider to be on the spectrum of psychopathy - are truly human?  Sure, they look like us - have human bodies, but what if they are not really human at all?  In such a case, the narcissist/psychopath is NOT preying on their own kind, because they, themselves, are a different species.  Maybe they are mutations from way back in history, or maybe they are a combination type - a mix of say, Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon that gave a big brain to a soulless body?

Just a bit of speculation.

Let us say for a moment that you've misjudged the narcissist, or perhaps a non-narcissist person who has become a detrimental force in your life. If you have misjudged them, your withdrawing doesn't prevent them from proving they are good people. Your withdrawal doesn't hurt someone in an irreparable way. Yes, maybe their feelings get hurt, but normal people are able to function in spite of some hurt feelings and eventually their feelings will resolve. What I'm saying is that withdrawing is the kindest and least damaging of any other action you can take. The other person, if misjudged by you, will lead their lives in such a way that will prove they are something other than what you thought they were.

This is the major point about Vinnie Bridges; you see, all we wanted to do was withdraw from association with him and that is what he would not allow.  So, like Anna says, yeah, withdrawing can hurt a person's feelings, but a normal person can function in a decent way with hurt feelings.  Vincent could not.  Nor could StormBear or Andrew Rowland (and other members of the gang).  Each and every one of them is someone we simply wished to have no further association with.   That was it.  End of story.  Let's bifurcate; you go your way, we go ours.

But they could not tolerate that.  And that, above all other things, is what demonstrated their pathology.  That is what showed us that we had NOT misjudged them.  As Gurdjieff said:

"A decent man will behave decently even if he thinks that he has been treated unjustly or wrongly. But many people in such circumstances show a side of their nature which otherwise they would never show. And at times it is a necessary means for exposing a man's nature. So long as you are good to a man he is good to you. But what will he be like if you scratch him a little?"

You may or may not be aware of how they are leading their lives, nevertheless, your withdrawal does not damage anyone's ability to carry on their lives successfully.

That's the bottom line: we did NOTHING to damage Vincent's ability to carry on his life successfully.  And had he behaved with even a modicum of decency, we might even have re-thought our assessment of him.  Instead, he immediately set about proving us right - and even more!  Not only was he not a person we would want to have any kind of business (or other) relationship with, he was whacked out beyond belief!

You are no one's savior. Staying in the narcissist's life is not going to someday save them. Leaving them will not destroy them (no matter what they tell you). If you decide you must withdraw, do so without apology or shame. If you happen to be wrong, your withdrawal is not going to damage the other person's life. If you didn't misjudge, you've taken an action that has protected your self without taking retaliatory actions against the other party. Narcissists would like to pretend your withdrawal is retaliatory, but that is a lie. It is the kindest, gentlest way of dealing with their toxicity. It acknowledges that you are not willing to be hurt anymore, and that you've abdicated the idea that the narcissist's salvation somehow is dependent on you. While they characterize "no contact" by you as cruel, the opposite is true. It is the kindest thing you can do for yourself and for them. They are deprived of using you and you are not responsible for increasing their evil by letting them hone it on you.

Refusing to forget the past is thrown in your face like it is a bad thing, but if you don't have any recollection of the terrible damage a tidal wave can do, then you won't know enough to get off the beach when the water draws back. Remembering the past is essential for survival. It is not a fault of character. An operational memory is what helps keep us safe! Don't let someone shame you with that.

The narcissist should be asking us for our forgiveness. Instead, they demand us to forget. There is a very large difference between the two. They don't want forgiveness, they want us to wipe our memories into blanks. Why? Because they want carte blanche to recommit their crimes against us at their whim.

That is the bottom line of why Vincent went through such concatenations to try to force us to remove our reports about his background and his activities.  Pathologicals really do hate being exposed more than anything, and that is the one thing that must be done, again and again and again, so that they are deprived of their ability to con others.

What has Vincent done with his life since then?  He has concentrated every waking hour to defaming me, my family, friends, work, groups, etc.  He has done not one single productive, creative thing that helps one single other person on the planet.   He has made a fool of himself over and over again on the net.  Oh, sure, in the beginning, he was able to get people to believe his lies; but the netizens are growing up.  His rant doesn't play in Peoria anymore.  So many people are wise to him and his kind that they are now jokes, buffoons, so obvious in their petty rages that even the formerly credulous are getting bored.

This is why I refuse to let the bad guys make the rules for my life anymore. The criminals want to make the rules. Their demands always boil down to the same thing--that I continue on as before and allow the narcissist the right to abuse me as they see fit. Well, I have a good enough memory, and enough sense, to know that I have been dealing with a force of nature. My desire for it to be different won't change it. When the blizzard threatens, I'm locking the doors and not stepping a toe outdoors until it has moved on. While the storm rages, I'll be quietly and contentedly reading a book or taking a nap. No, my heart isn't full of hate. I'm very happily and realistically leading a life out of the path of the storm.

"A prudent man foresees evil and hides himself, But the simple pass on and are punished." Prov 22:3 (NKJV)

Again, Amen!

[spyraal]

Great post indeed! It it amazing when trying to realize what people (myself included) have and still do put up from phychopaths and yet consider it a "normal" human behaviour that only takes some extra care and time to fix... Studing them in the open like this is such a redemption from all these past moments of doubt and confusion...
Thank you Laura.

[swanseagal]

Thanks for these posts.  I have lately been at the centre of a nest of narcissists.  Caught in their web it seemed to me only I could see what was happening.  I also had a narcissist in the family who was whipping up a storm around me.  After a traumatic childhood I still entertained a belief in the goodness of people I met.  Even when the gut feeling told me they were off key I pushed these thoughts away. Desperate I guess for friends and to feel included I accepted these damaged people into my life.  I have learned so much lately about these vampires work.  I found the way forward was to ignore them and this led to them seeing this as a retaliation against them and they were not happy at all.  They would walk towards me smiling and say hi.  I looked right through them and got on with my day.  This led to histronics on their part and they them got to most of my other friends and said I was the instigator and bully etc...  But I still think that my non violent approach was the best way.  IF they lie and manipulate it will not be because of me.  It will be something entirely on their shoulders.  If I lose friends then as the previous poster said it will be worth it for the need to protect my self from the onslaught is vital.  But if I am right these are very dangerous people.  I know they have done the same thing to at least one other person.  They plan and they scheme and they care nothing for the health of me or my children so I am going to be ruthless in my own way.  At first I thought I should try and get others to understand what was going on but I realise now it is not my job to save others.  I most certainly cannot change the narcissists. I am hopeful this experience will serve to inoculate me against future encounters.

[purplehaze]

Denial as a Tactic of Manipulation
by Anna Valerious

When we talk about someone who is in denial we believe what we are discussing is a psychological defense mechanism. To believe that a narcissist is using denial as a defense mechanism is to set yourself up to be manipulated and deceived. We need to examine the tactic of denial as something very different from the psychological defense of denial.

Denial as a defense mechanism is how the mind copes emotionally in the fall-out of a catastrophic event, major loss, or with anxiety. The woman who finds herself suddenly widowed may deny for awhile that her husband is dead. Or she may simply feel numb and unable to cry for weeks or months. This is because she can't deal with all the emotions of loss and shock all at once. Denial as a defense is how our minds protect us from overwhelming situations that we aren't equipped at the time to deal with emotionally.

This is something very different from denial as a tactic. George K. Simon, "In Sheep's Clothing", points out:

"...this is when the aggressor refuses to admit that they've done something harmful or hurtful when they clearly have. It's a way they lie (to themselves as well as others) about their aggressive intentions. This 'Who...Me?' tactic invites the victim to feel unjustified in confronting the aggressor about the inappropriateness of a behavior. It's also the way the aggressor gives him/herself permission to keep right on doing what they want to do." pg. 98

Denial as a lying tactic of manipulation is another in the list of tactics covert-aggressive manipulators (usually character-disordered individuals) use very frequently. Mr. Simon has kindly laid out a list of eighteen of the most common tactics. He calls that a short list. He stresses the importance of differentiating between denial as a defense and denial as a tactic to hide aggressive intent. Simon sums up the tactic thusly:

"In short, when Jeff [a juvenile caught in the act of bullying] is denying, he's not defending in any way, he's mainly fighting. He's not in a psychological state, he's employing a tactic, and he's very aware of what he's doing. The tactic he's using is often called denial, but it's really just another way of lying. And he's lying for the reasons people commonly lie -- to get out of trouble." pg. 94

I am sure you have many memories flooding into your mind right now of the times the narcissist has flatly denied their bad behavior, the effects of their bad behavior, and their bad intent behind the bad behavior. You are remembering how they managed to turn the whole situation around so that you were made to feel like you were the aggressor for not believing their denial...their lie. They put on their sweet angel face and deny, deny, deny until you lose the will to continue the fight. For that is what this creep is doing. Fighting. Fighting for his way. Fighting for his "right" to keep right on doing what he wants to do, all consequences to you be damned.

By his insistent denials you have often been made to feel like the bad guy. For trying to get an accounting from him for his actions you have succumbed to the accusation that you're being judgmental, unfair, bullying. So you gave up. You bought the lie that you are the mean one and he is innocent. Who would insist so tenaciously on their innocence except the innocent? Or so you rationalize. You are unwilling to believe that he can look you in the eye and lie his ass off from here to eternity. You want to believe that something about him, and about this relationship, is real...so you succumb his denials.

Or perhaps you allow yourself to know that his behavior was bad and destructive, but you tell yourself that deep down he's really hurting so he is "in denial" because he can't face his own pain. This is never the case with the character-disordered. He is not "in pain". He has no anxiety about his bad behavior whatsoever. He is totally cool with how he is. The only thing he isn't cool with is that you're not accepting his behavior. He is trying to get a pass from you by this blatant denial of his actions. He has no intention of stopping what he is doing. He will buy himself another day by simply denying he did what he did. It is so childish that it is rather a wonderment that we fall for this as often as we do when this is done by an adult. We want to believe that the person in front of us is basically good. That they are basically honest. That they are not fighting with us in this moment.

Teach yourself to recognize when someone is covertly fighting for their own way. Never fall for the belief that the narcissist is in some sort of psychic pain which prevents them from knowing how their behavior affects those around her. She has no problem, no conflict in her own mind with her behavior. She is justified fully in her mind for what she does no matter the destruction it brings down on herself and others. Her only problem is with your perceptions of her behavior. That is what she is trying to deal with as she employs her massive denial of her misdeeds. You are the problem...not her. She is not fighting to repress some deep psychological pain. She is fighting to force you to repress your own pain and your own perception so she can carry on unpunished while doing what ever the hell she wants to do.

http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com/2007/12/denial-as-tactic-of-manipulation.html

[scourgethedirge]

"We want to believe that the person in front of us is basically good. That they are basically honest."

Vaknin termed that as the malignant optimism of the abused.

I'm quite fond of that really! It reminds me that a lot of his articles were pretty insightful and helpful to me.
He has described the narcissists I have known better than any of the other experts in my opinion.. probably because he is one lol.. after all the disorder gives that special ability of being able to penetrate to the core of somebody's personality.

I know he was pretty bad at helping victims when they ask for advice though..

[swanseagal]

Yes Vaknin does seem to describe narcissism well but that is hardly a feat.... as you said he is one!   Like scoring an a + in your french language  exam and you are french speaking from birth.   Also like you said he is not there to help anyone really he is there to share his wonderful knowledge and bask in the adoration.  I think he feeds off the people who contact him or use his sites.  That said like with a serial killer we can learn from his sharing of his info.    I have a family member who is a narcissist and it was only via sites on the internet that I was finally able to start to protect myself.  It never dawned on me that serial narcissists are out there and feeding off my reactions.  I used to be a great forgiver and always saw the good and played down peoples faults.  Now I trust my gut and listen to the social clues which are given to find out what is really going on.  At present I have some people smiling away at me who I know are working hard behind the scenes to spread slander and false accusations.  They are so good that it is only by slight mistakes that they give themselves away and certainly to most others the narcissism is not visible.  Once you stop and step back from situation it is all too clear.  It is a game and planned out and worked at so that by the time the victim realizes what is going on the trap is set and exits blocked.  I believe in this day and age the narcissist has come into his own.  The political correctness of workplaces and schools mean they can not get away with direct bullying so they use sharp but subtle techniques to bring down those they latch on to.  Isolate the victim.... make them act crazy and then stand back and point... the crazier the victim acts by trying to prove what is going on the calmer the narcissist becomes.  So I am ignoring the smilers at the moment and their sickly hellos as they pass me.  The temptation to respond negatively is strong but I know it will only be used as fodder for their campaign so I stay quiet.  Any advice on how to deal with this kind of velvet glove narcissism?

[purplehaze]

To call an abused person's optimism or magical thinking "malignant" is, IOHO - cruel.
You need to remember the abused person has usually been brainwashing and mentally twisting.  Their good nature used against them.  This optimism is natural... it is the only narcissist that is MALIGNANT.

"We want to believe that the person in front of us is basically good. That they are basically honest."

Vaknin termed that as the malignant optimism of the abused.

Joann Ashmun gives a much better description here:

A lifetime of such mistreatment typically instills lack of confidence in your own judgment, along with habitual shame at never getting it right or being good enough to deserve the air that you breathe.

http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/index.html

[purplehaze]

The political correctness of workplaces and schools mean they can not get away with direct bullying so they use sharp but subtle techniques to bring down those they latch on to.  Isolate the victim.... make them act crazy and then stand back and point... the crazier the victim acts by trying to prove what is going on the calmer the narcissist becomes.  So I am ignoring the smilers at the moment and their sickly hellos as they pass me.  The temptation to respond negatively is strong but I know it will only be used as fodder for their campaign so I stay quiet.  Any advice on how to deal with this kind of velvet glove narcissism?

The late Kathy Krajco has some answers:

Blaming the Victim of Narcissism

The first thing the victims of narcissists need to know is that they are not to blame.

Not one bit.

In other words, he didn't get mad because dinner was was late. She didn't blow up because you are "too this" or "too that." You didn't "ask for it" by speaking up and saying that you deserved some attention and respect.

The narcissist attacked you just because you are there, period. Don't you have a right to be there?

Let's get real. Narcissists think they have a right to punish you just for being the way you are. Think, don't you have the right to be the way you are? Do you have to be some character in the narcissist's fiction that conforms to his or her specifications?

Does that make any sense? That's as hateful as the crime against humanity of attacking people just for being a certain KIND or nationality.

The narcissist attacks because he or she is a predator, period. Predators attack any vulnerable prey that crosses their sights, period. Therefore, the prey is NEVER the one bit to blame.

It would make as much sense to blame a sheep for getting attacked by a wolf. So what if the wolf says, "I attacked her because she is an obnoxious sheep!" What idiot falls for that line? Yet narcissist sympathizers are doing precisely this and are therefore being irrational.

The narcissist attacked just to do it, and he or she attacks any prey they have some unfair advantage over. They never pick a fair fight. They are bullies, period.

They do it to vaunt themselves on others. It gives them a high. Like as in a high from a hit on drug.

Does this mean you are a saint? Of course not. Does it mean you have never said or done anything in an argument with a narcissist that you should regret? Of course not.

You are like a bank teller who gets shot in a holdup. You are totally innocent of getting shot. Don't let the sloppy thinkers like narcissists and their sympathizers convince you that you are to blame because you were rude, or because you were embezzling, or because you are a drug addict. All that is irrelevant TO HIM SHOOTING YOU.

Of course you should change those things about yourself, but the "intellectual" clowns who make out your character flaws as justifying abuse of you are complete idiots unable to see the relationship between cause and effect.

Being late with dinner is no excuse for the narcissist to attack you. Being "too this" or "too that" for his taste is no excuse for the narcissist to attack you. Demanding decent and respectful treatment is no excuse for the narcissist to attack you.

I don't care how "threatened" any of that makes the poor, twisted narcissist feel. His perverted feelings are HIS problem, not yours. Like Osama bin Wanton, he will never run out of twisted excuses to irrationalize his attacks on you, so get off the guilt trip. His perversity is not YOUR vice.

Narcissists attack you just to do it. You are therefore 100% innocent of your victimization. Blow off this absurd "It takes two to Tango" crap.

Doubtless, you will discover that there are certain things you should stop doing. Good. Now you wise up and stop being manipulated in ways that play right into the narcissist's hands. Now you cannot be victimized.

THIS is how you stop being a victim.

But foggy-headed idiots (like those espousing the co-dependence theory) try to claim that you stop being a victim by pretending that you have never been made one. That's crazy.

That is magical thinking, like the narcissist's. You HAVE been made a victim. That's a FACT, like it or not. And "victim" is not a dirty word. Though being a victim is nothing to aspire to and is something to avoid, being a victim is NOT a sin. It is nothing to be ashamed of. To the contrary, the most innocent are the most unsuspecting and most easily victimized ... until they have learned the hard way not to assume that other people are good. And these foggy-headed idiots who blame the victim should be able to see that. (Maybe if they stopped thinking in buzzword-laden slogans, like robots, they would.)

You stop being a victim by wising up so that you are never again victimized. It requires nothing beyond COMMON SENSE to realize that.

In some cases, the narcissist has stolen something of value from you, like your job or reputation - something you have every right to get back from the damned thief.

You stop being a victim when you win justice and get it back, period.

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/04/blaming-victim-of-narcissism.html