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Re: The Black Madonna

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bonegatherer:
Mmmm...the Black Madonna.  Well, first off, I will throw the mundane out there.  "She is black because she is black"..Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar.  BUT as we all surely know, there is always something more to it.

With anything on this strange path, even with the C's transcripts, it always means what it means, and it ALWAYS means something more.  It's like there are several layers of truth that are all true at the same time going from the mundane manifestation to the higher level abstract.  It is all one thing, but at different levels.  And often the mundane serves as a clue to something deeper.

Black Madonna?  A very direct symbol of the dark matter, the unconscious, the hidden realm from which all things are born...and the part that upsets us is that this is also the place where all things return.

It's like we don't want to accept that part of the cycle.  She is alchemical, she is shamanistic, she is the fire, the burning that we must endure before something greater is born.  She is the one that destroys, yes, but in order to make way for new life.  She is the one that guides our souls through the dark places and prepares us for rebirth. 

Lines on the face..I do believe there is also a Czech. version with a scar on her face.  She has been wounded.  Which is in total keeping with the path of the shaman and the cycle of death and rebirth.

I wonder, too, if she is wounded because as an archetype, as a part of our collective psyche, we have shoved her so far down.  We fear and despise everything about her.  The death she represents.  The terrifying nature of that which will not be controlled.  That which we have no power over.  And that scares..at least modern humanity...to death.

We want to control.  We want to control nature.  We want to control death.  Some even say the fear of Her goes back to the utter dependency we had as infants on Mother.  Her ability at a whim to either give or take love...and thereby our very survival away.

She is everything we fear because we no longer see life as a cycle.  We no longer see her as a necessary part of that cycle.  We love the virgin and mother, but the crone!  Which is what she ultimately represents.  Although with the promise of new life.

Lines across her face because she was ashamed?  Or lines across her face because we have shamed her?

But any thing especially any archetype we as a collective repress only becomes more fierce and aggressive in its expression because we push it to the realm of unnatural.  I guess it builds up steam.

It is considered that the repression of this aspect of the cycle of life is one of the reasons for so much war and aggressive behavior.  It's like we are constantly trying to purge ourselves of death by putting it on others.  Thereby being the master of it. 

Magdalene...which is alluded to in these black madonnas as is sheba and on back to isis.  So there is obviously something more ancient at work here than 1st century ad.  Not to mention medieval times.  Something these wily ones were trying to communicate.

It is said that simon the magus was actually the next in line to carry on john the baptists' work.  that he was the favorite of j.b.  Point is, that if you remember the magus paraded through the towns with his Helen.  She was black, and not metaphorically.  She danced in chains.  She was his lover as well...so the story goes.  But she was also a representive of the...creative principle....the dark mother..being repressed.  Held in chains, though she still danced. 

How glorious it might be to unchain her.  Or! it could have represented the need to..keep it in balance.  To not let the overwhelming power of that other realm destroy.  Because unchecked, without discipline and training, it can destroy.  Which one simon was after, i'm not sure.  lol.

anart:
Hi bonegatherer - have you had a chance to read the Wave Series yet?   Another great read is Secret History of the World, which goes into some detail about the Black Madonna and her purpose/significance.

bonegatherer:
yeah, i've noticed those.  sounds interesting. i always enjoy a good read!

parallel:
A notice on St. Lawrence. My childhood Roman catholic church, was named after him; Sct. Laurentii, it held a bone splinter relic of him in the altar (or was it a scorpio tail?) It was said that before he was grilled and cried out, he was whipped with scorpions, just thougth I'd mention it as scorpios esotericly could be said to be veil (of tears) piercers.

from _http://www.stnicholasmtl.org/Archives/St%20Laurence/St%20Laurence.htm

--- Quote ---When Laurence was arrested and brought before the Prefect, he was questioned concerning the treasures of the Church; he asked for three days' time to prepare them. He then proceeded to gather all the poor and needy, and presented them to the Prefect and said, "Behold the treasures of the Church." The Prefect became enraged at this and gave command that Laurence be racked, then scourged with scorpions (a whip furnished with sharp iron points - compare II Chron. 10:11), then stretched out on a red-hot iron grill
--- End quote ---

I always thougth he was whipped with live scorpions, or so it was told, it may be another symbolic encased clue eitherway.

einheri-limetree:
Hello at all!  :)



--- Quote --- Valhöll – the tomb-womb

" Óðinn’s hall, Valhöll, is equivalent to Freyja’s Fólkvangur. Could Valhöll have existed before the war? The reappearing word val in the Islandic myths cannot be overlooked. Freyja’s bird is valur, her priestesses are vala/völva and valkyrja, and her consort Óðinn is called Valfaðir in Völuspá and he reigns in Valhöll, where the valur (the slain warriors) gather after death and before rebirth. So let’s take one more close look at this re-appearing word and/or prefix –val-.

Val is found in words for something round, like in vala, völva and völur, something evolving and turning (see more on this in the chapter on völva below). Valur is ‘falcon’, also called fálki, and we see a correlation to that in Sámi where a falcon is called falle or valli. The slain in the battlefield are also called valur, probably related to the IE *uel and Latin vellere, which both mean ‘to tear apart’. This IE root *uel is also at the base of vulva, völur, vala and völva, there it means to bend or turn. Ásgeir B. Magnússon (1989) finds it unlikely that valur/fálki is from that same root, vellere and *uel, whereas I here assume that it may well be.

Val can also refer to ‘choice’ or ‘to choose’. Val-höll is the hall or palace of the slain, the fallen warriors, or the chosen ones. Or is it? When we look closer at this word we find that like Fólkvangur, Valhöll could very well have had an earlier existence, before the war. Let’s look at the word höll (palace, hall). Höll is of the same root and meaning as hóll (hill), hol (hall, hollow), hellir (hollow, cave), hulin (hidden), Hulda (hidden one), Holla, hell and Hel (Ásgeir B. Magnússon, 1989). The image reflected from all these words and names is in fact an empty, enveloping space, a tomb or womb.

So from this we see that Valhöll can mean ‘the round cave’, or ‘the hall of the vulture or falcon’, or ‘the hollow vulva’ or ‘the hidden round place’ or ‘ the evolving space’ or ‘the chosen hall’ etc. Whichever of these translations we choose, Valhöll is a tomb-womb space, it is the Goddess’ womb of regeneration. Hel has the same meaning. It is a hollow place, or the goddess of that hollow place. Hel is half-blue (or black) and half-white, which shows well her regeneratrix nature. We can assume that there was a time when Hel and Valhöll were the same, or Hel was the goddess of Valhöll, the womb lying in Freyja’s fertile Fólkvangur (Valley of the Dead).

Now let’s also look a little closer at val-kyrja. Val means choice, among all the other things, and so does ‘kyrja’. Most scholars maintain that valkyrja is combined of valur (slain) and kyrja (choose), meaning ‘the one who chooses the slain’. But kyrja also means to ‘sing in a strong voice’, coming from Greek kyrios (lord), so it really means the voice of God - or Goddess-. Valkyrja could therefore be the singing falcon, the one who sings the song of death. In today’s world “a swan-song” means the last song, the song of death, and the “song” of the falcon’s sister, the owl, is a well-known death omen.

I am fully aware that kyrja in valkyrja is most likely of another root than kyrios, voice of the Goddess. Valkyrja is the same word as the Old English wælcyrge (Davidson, 1964, p.62), but I use this reflection here to move into the dream dance and look at things from another perspective, naked.The song of the falcon, alias Freyja, could have been a death song, at the same time announcing a new life, and therefore the singing valkyrja, is the one who chooses, not only the slain warriors, but all the dead to be reborn. Óðinn, whose name is probably the same as Óður, is the song or poem of life, as well as fury and madness. Óður is the song and life force of the goddess. By the time their task has been diminished to dividing the slain warriors among themselves, Freyja in her longing for her lost song, weeps tears of red gold." - The Saga of Vanadis,Völva and Valkyrja   Images of the Divine from the Memory of an Islandic Women by Valgerður Hjördís Bjarnadóttir (h tt p://www.vanadis.is)
--- End quote ---

This book was for a long time for free as a pdf download direct from the authorshomepage,but now i am not sure,i can not find the link for the download on this site,i can find the pdf only over google,maybe now the book is really only avaible on Amazon and co and it is more "a old failure" that you can download the book from the homepage? On the other side,the homepage is work in progress and some contents are only in the icelandic version of this homepage.I am confused. :huh:


In addition to the other articles here about Hel,here a little article about Hludana or Hlu-dana
h tt p://www.livius.org/hi-hn/hludana/hludana.html


Hludana -> Hulda/Hulla -> Holda/Holle -> Hölda/Hälda -> Hel/Hela


1. In old Germany and for different places it gave the Helways,this were ways for the dead to holy places,or this helways were connected to holy places,we can find this Helways in northwestern direction in Germany and in the Netherlands.One Place which seems connected to the Helways is the Exsternsteine.In the Mythology,we have the Helvegr,the Way to the Realm of the Goddess Hel over the bridge Gjallarbru protected by the maiden/giantess Modgudr.Modgudr(norse) means as a typical interpretation "zorniger Kampf" in german or "angry/furious fight" in english,another very interesting interpretation is "the maiden which vexed the mind" to describe it.That is very interesting,maybe a good picture for the fear of the death.So makes  another idea/interpretation for me more sense,the idea that i have read in the internet,Modgudr as the "the (female) enemy of the gods".The feeling of fear which penetrates the mind. And from another view,fear is a odd thing for a warrior society. Or from the old shamanistic view,the fear,the emotion (female principle) that goes through the body and mind before the shaman makes his out of body experience in the otherworld and so he goes to the terrible dying process and the emotion is his worst enemy in this moment. Or he is complete furious,but more in the sense of a ecstatic condition,this could be bad und good,or terrible and nice at the same moment.


2a. For the teutonic people the Helway was is a word for the Milky Way,what i find interesting other says the same with Freyja and that the stellar constellation Orion was called by the Teutons Freyas or Friggas gown.

Here is another strange thing with the constellation Orion,but i have no more information about
this gigantic hunter figure with a expansion over the complete irish island :
h tt p://www.mythicalireland.com/highman/


2b. It gives in german an interesting article by a little crazy guy with interesting ideas.He is a professional for languages and was trying to recreate meanings in the oldhighgermanic language and for him,the uncensored oldhighgermanic language,not the censored through church and co, is a key to all other languages,he says in his interpretation Hel is the word for the outer space. And that Anu/Ana means female ancestor and Mariana or later Maria means the great female ancestor.
And he says,that in the beginning Yule was a festival which was celebrated for the ancestors that came from heaven.And he connects the month names with the stellar constellation of the bear or great bear.But i think,it has not so much to do with the great bear in the sense of the outer space,more with the goddess or beargoddess and her benevolent gifts for the old societys,and the other think is,the old calendarsystems are strong connected to the moon and moonphases and we have 13 moonphases in the year,so in some areas we find traces that 13 was a lucky number und a importent number,later under the church we have the 13 as a bad number and we have than in the myths the bad 13th  fairy,in the sense of a resentful and wicked witch.


Here I have played with the names and have searched for other Goddesses in Europe and Asia and how all this Goddesses means in the end the same und came in the endffeckt from the same root or the same name oder have to do with the same Goddess.Later with the one or another name from other parts of the world.

Anu - Danu - Dana - Don - Dione - Ammu/Ammit - Domnu - Donn - Dan - Danae - Danaan - Turan -  Danu-ana - Ana - Aine - Anaan - Anna - Diana - Dinna - Nana - Nane - Anaye - Ananse - Annanin - Tana - Inanna - Anaitis - Vanadis (Frea) - Anitan - Anahita - Anaites - Tanit - Anahid - Anachita - Anath - Tiamat - Nath – Nut -Anathu - Anu Mathar - Kali Ma - Ananta -  Aditi - Atimiti - Artimiti - Artemis - Artimpasa/Argimpasa - Al-lat/Alitta - Athene/Athena (Anat-Ana - Athana - Athanu - a-ta-na-po-ti-ni-ja - Athina) - Tara - Tala - Papatuanuku - Kunapipi - Kuanyin/Kannon - Bhawani - Krasopani - Papa - Quamait´s - Hina - Aataensic - Pachamama - Izanami - Morg-ana/Morrigan/Morrigu - Brigit/Brighid/Saint Bridget/Brig-ana – Tianhou – Hel/Hlu-Dana/Hulda/Holda/Holle

Very interesting to the the wandering of the name or later how one name goes in another name or one tribe/folk becames the same goddess under a new name or with new/different functions and than we have hundred of names and goddesses.

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