Author Topic: Do 'curses' work ?  (Read 15007 times)

Online Tigersoap

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Do 'curses' work ?
« on: June 12, 2006, 04:51:50 PM »
I am not sure this is under the good sub-forum but here is my question.

Are 'curses' (evil-eye, voodoo doll, you name it...) really working ?

When I talk about 'curse' I am more inclined to think of a psychic attack than something that will make your penis getting smaller and smaller.

I used to not believe in it and considered that the effect of a curse could only be experienced if the victim somehow "believed" in it (a bit like the invisible man under hypnosis), but now I am not so sure.

Is this only psychosomatical ? or does it have a tangible reality ?

If, for example, 4D STS work through a person who is doing (willingly calling STS forces or just being used by them) a curse, would the effect be real ?
Even without any special beliefs in the part of the victims ?


Knowledge protects ? but how ?


Pardon me if I am not clear enough, I already have troubles with writing in French sometimes, I really have to make an effort on this.
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« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2006, 05:46:32 PM »
I've personally seen curses in action. My grandmother was a master, and for a while my aunt had this energy as well. My grandmother ended up finally draining herself, and may aunt lost her abilities. Anyway, when a person consistently tells people they will die within a time period (typically less than a year), and they consistently do, you start taking the matter seriously. And when you are a target of this, and start comparing notes with cases you heard, it starts becoming much clearer.

Beliefs are not necessary, but amplify the effect. A connection between the victim with the one cursing is also needed. This can be psychological, or in the form of a DNA sample. If a connection is lacking, then the curser needs to present some justification to the victim, convincing the victim that they deserve to be such.

If the curse does not take hold, the curser will keep trying to wear the victim down until either the destiny path or physical presence of the person is reprogrammed toward their destruction. However, curses are not as easy to do just under any circumstances as most people think. Here in Greece the most effective curses are those from mother to child (a lot more common than I previously thought), because of the womb connection, as if the mother can speak to her child's cells and tell them to self destruct. The most common result of such curses are diseases, but also can be accidents or just a general turn of things for the worse.

Ill will is a malignant energy, and one of the reasons Pathocrats promote war and suffering, and pit groups of people against each other is to channel that energy to do their work for them.

The outer forms of curses are just that, repositories of the malignancy. A curse comes from generating a certain state of being, reflected in the nervous system. If not allowed to transfer, and if the victim's subconscious does not accept the validity of the presence of these energies, they cannot, and this can harm the perpetrator.

Knowledge protects because it can reveal a state of being that will not respond to the curse energies. Depending on the strength of the curse and how deep into the subconscous it goes, much work may be needed to relieve the subconscious of programs making it accepting to self-desctruction. Usually, the work itself attracts psychopathic ill will, and these are usually proportional to the degree of inner development attained.

In short, I think there is more to the term "psychosomatic" than conventional wisdom allows, and that psychosomatic is tangible, and has effects beyond the physiological. Your whole probability field can be affected.

Just a few quick words on the subject.

Offline Ben

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Do 'curses' work ?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2006, 08:22:04 PM »
Robert Bruce also talks about how negative attention towards a person may have the affect of causing psychic attack and attention from malignant entities towards that person. He actually suggests that a victim of psychic attack consider the people in their life which may wish them harm or harbour a grudge against them.
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Do 'curses' work ?
« Reply #3 on: June 13, 2006, 12:23:51 PM »
Quote from: EsoQuest
I've personally seen curses in action. My grandmother was a master, and for a while my aunt had this energy as well. My grandmother ended up finally draining herself, and may aunt lost her abilities. Anyway, when a person consistently tells people they will die within a time period (typically less than a year), and they consistently do, you start taking the matter seriously. And when you are a target of this, and start comparing notes with cases you heard, it starts becoming much clearer.
Wow, that bad ?
You only hear about gypsy curses, evil eye and voodoo dolls and they do not seem to have a physical reality (thanks to the film industry and TV).

Quote
Beliefs are not necessary, but amplify the effect. A connection between the victim with the one cursing is also needed. This can be psychological, or in the form of a DNA sample. If a connection is lacking, then the curser needs to present some justification to the victim, convincing the victim that they deserve to be such.
I knew by reading Anton Lavey a few years back (yeah I know, it's all that heavy metal music that corrupts one's soul :P)  that he said (I quote from memory) : Someone who does not believe in curse will be an easier target that someone who knows that they work and will protect himself.
But I suppose you'd have to be very careful about the veracity of what he's saying.

This seem to contradict in part what you're saying but I don't know if both ideas cannot co-exist.


Quote
Knowledge protects because it can reveal a state of being that will not respond to the curse energies. Depending on the strength of the curse and how deep into the subconscous it goes, much work may be needed to relieve the subconscious of programs making it accepting to self-desctruction. Usually, the work itself attracts psychopathic ill will, and these are usually proportional to the degree of inner development attained.
Ok, so this forum is a magnet for such forces, you can't deny that.
So if for example, someone ill intended cursed ( through him by 4d STS forces) this forum, there would be ripples and only those who have reached a certain knowledge point would not be harmed ? Would that be possible ?

I posted this question because I had a strong hunch last week that since I linked Cassiopaea on my website and coming regularily on this board then registering later on (about last December/February) I have somehow attracted some negative current in my life which blocked in good part my only source of revenue.

It has nothing to do with me especially but more of a general ill will directed to everyone.

I feel like an idiot saying all this but this how I felt it and a healer I know confirmed that some strong 'curse' for lack of a better term was linked to my willing involvment with Cassiopaea about the same time.

Maybe I am just making this all up in my head because of my running programs, ego and so on, if I do, please let me know.

Now I almost don't believe in it myself.

Would visualisation (or meditation) help to deflect such negative energies ?



Quote
In short, I think there is more to the term "psychosomatic" than conventional wisdom allows, and that psychosomatic is tangible, and has effects beyond the physiological. Your whole probability field can be affected.
Sure, I think that psychosomatic effect will be made physical if enough energy is poured into it.
Various people have written books about how your physical ailments are a physical image of a mental image/idea/problem.


Anyway, thanks a lot for your comments.
Always helpful.
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Do 'curses' work ?
« Reply #4 on: June 13, 2006, 12:30:43 PM »
Quote from: Ben
Robert Bruce also talks about how negative attention towards a person may have the affect of causing psychic attack and attention from malignant entities towards that person. He actually suggests that a victim of psychic attack consider the people in their life which may wish them harm or harbour a grudge against them.
I had to google Robert Bruce to know who it was but I see that it is the guy who wrote "New energy ways".

That's pretty scary when you think of all the people always cursing mentally the others all the time, either because they drove too slow or because your Boss did not allow you a raise. I don't know if it's that easy though but it sure does help the malignant entities work.

Again what to do when you're the victim of such attack when your knowledge does not protect you yet ?
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Offline Ben

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« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2006, 01:39:51 PM »
Remember that the C's expand on 'knowledge protects' by saying "always expect attack, know the modes of same, know how to counteract same". In other words, it is the application and understanding of knowledge that protects. I don't know much about curses, but Robert Bruce has written an excellent book called 'Practical Psychic Self Defense' in which his years of experience of dealing with negative entities have revealed an array or counteractive methods. I can't remember how much detail he goes into about 'curses'. I am inclined to agree with EQ when he wrote: "Knowledge protects because it can reveal a state of being that will not respond to the curse energies"
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Do 'curses' work ?
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2006, 02:15:00 PM »
I'd be interested in hearing a technical definition of a "curse" if anyone cares to offer.
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« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2006, 04:55:34 PM »
Quote from: Tigersoap
I knew by reading Anton Lavey a few years back (yeah I know, it's all that heavy metal music that corrupts one's soul )  that he said (I quote from memory) : Someone who does not believe in curse will be an easier target that someone who knows that they work and will protect himself.
But I suppose you'd have to be very careful about the veracity of what he's saying.
I'll try to elaborate a bit on my previous post. Please forgive any repetitions.

Lavey was a bit of a clown. Even Crowley was little more than a selfish hedonist. Stuff may have worked for them because like true Satanists, these are worshippers of the STS way as a kind of ideal. The term 'Satanist' is just a doctrinist formation for STS worship, and because these people are pure believers in the STS way, they have conviction, and for the most part are more effective than the doctrinists of "good" who are full of turmoil and inner conflict, or are just hypocrites.

For a curse to be effective, a victim has to believe in the effectiveness of STS at least on a subconscious level. Since most people do believe that selfishness seems to have its way most of the time, they already support the curser to a certain degree. These beliefs go far deeper than faith in a specific cultural motif.

Again, knowledge protects when we realize the true nature of our fear of the power of selfishness and psychic malignancy, and when we begin to decondition ourselves from those very deep patterns. Thus, a person who does not believe in curses, may not believe in them consciously, but may still react as "prey" in the face of malevolence. The only way to deal with a predator is to first stop seeing oneself as prey.

A curse is an energy pattern of entropy imposed upon an individual, groups, places, things and/or events (just my personal definition, Brent).

The pattern is real, and can act in many ways, some of them explainable (such as suggestion), others not readily explainable (such as "accidents" and diseases resulting from such effects). In all cases, however, the curse is like an infection upon the being.

Most of us can feel the impact of the malevolence, rage and hatred we encounter in small doses day to day, and if it is intermittent, it usually does not have drastic effects. When such energies, however, are sustained and focused upon us in a deliberate manner the results can be more profound, and then we have to understand what is going on, and find ways to boost our psychic immune systems.

I think Lavey was referring to the fact that most people already respond to energies forced upon them, no matter their beliefs, because their degree of consciousness is low. In those cases (which constitute the majority of people), one tends to ignore what is going on, lacks knowledge and is more vulnerable than a person taking conscious action.  

From my experience, I gather that curses never "leave" the perpetrator until the entropy has transferred completly to the victim (whereby the intended result is attained). Until the result is attained, there is a subtle connection between perpetrator and victim. If the entropy does not transfer to the victim, it tends to vibrate into the perpetrator, and the latter becomes the victim of their own curse.

Experienced cursers can dissipate this energy into the environment (hence affecting others in a diluted fashion), but this is highly stressful to them because they cannot break the link to the original victim until the energy runs its course, and at the same time must channel it elsewhere or keep pushing till something gives (them or the "victim").

The truth of curses is that the most vulnerable party is the perpetrator. This is because the victim has a choice and the perp has made his or hers. Ignorance and/or disinformation prevents the victim from realizing the power of their free will in such a matter.

True knowledge can "teach" to deflect these entropic energies in an automatic manner. For knowledge to be empowering it must become an applicable conviction, similar to the power of faith, but without its blindness. Usually, this learning toward immunity is gradual, where one first is able to deflect low-level malevolence and then the stronger more focused forms of it.

A more advanced state of knowledge includes the ability to absorb and transmute these energies, to reverse the entropy by liberating the pattern from the medium of transfer, which includes the psyche/body of the victim and that of the perpetrator. This prevents subsequent environmental pollution occuring through pure deflection.

A side effect of this is that the entropy generating dynamics in the perpetrator are nullified, and the victim can gain amplification in his or her pattern (thoughtform) generating potential. STS occultists extensively curse people for this reason, as a form of psychic cannibalism (which implies consuming the psychic potential of the victim as opposed to just the energy, which is vampirism).

The intended victim can transmute the entropy, and disempower the perpetrator in that manner. There is no breach of free will in this, because the perp is the responsible and causal party. In more organized STS idealists, the weakest members of the group get to be sacrificed for the failures of the leaders.

Similarly, when groups amounting to populations support these leaders, large numbers of people can pay the price. That is why many STS groups seek to expand membership, and seek to keep the masses enthralled under their illusions. They need cannon fodder.

This forum is a bit of a curse magnet, no doubt about it, given the ill will directed against it. The group dynamic cushions the effect greatly, however. When one, therefore, learns from the experience modes such as discernment (which is the foundation of making right choices), and is sincere and aware of what is going on within, the entropy does not seep into the subconscious where it can do real damage.

In this case individuals are not targeted, so although there is stress by induction, it is of a more impersonal nature, seeking to disrupt the group dynamic more than anything. On the other hand, if the group dynamic is disrupted, its key elements can be targeted with a high focus, which would not be pleasant.

Learning is one way to transmute the energies of entropy, because the stimulus is expended as learning creates a reorganization within the psyches making up the group. The larger and more coherent the group, the greater the cushioning. The greater the learning, and the greater the determination of the group to learn, the greater the degree of transmutation.

This has a dual positive effect besides that of learning immunity. The attackers are first slowly disempowered, and second their attention is taken away from areas where conscious learning has not taken root, hence giving others not in the group some room to think more clearly.

The attackers themselves are really the one's trapped here, because they cannot stop attacking (because the group is generating knowledge for all anyway), and they cannot stop being the mediums of the group's learning, and hence accelerating the learning.

The challenge for the group is to keep the pace of the learning and its application parallel to the pace of the entropy confronting it. This is like a weighlifter developing strength to lift more weight. For maximum strength, proper pacing is needed, and sincerity in the group allows feedback with the learning that insures this pacing.

Visualization is an auxilliary method. It can help because it gives visual form to awareness, but alone it is just generating images. What makes it effective is sensory integration in the imaginative process, coupled with knowledge. Visualization needs to align with the sense of one's presence, and true "I". It then generates a symbol in the mind of what is a tangible presence.

So just imaging light does nothing, but giving meaning to that light, sensing it in your whole being as your very soul, coming into self-knowledge of your true "I", and knowing (as opposed to just declaring) you are in the right, can greatly support the true effect, which is the power of choice.  

A great help is placing the myths of occult power in their proper perspective, and knowing that most of what STS idealist promote is nothing but psychopathic ramblings. Notice how many manipulators go on and on about occult "powers". Actually the word "occult" is a psychopathic inside joke.

It refers to what is "hidden", only this case what is hidden is not seen because it does not exist. We, therefore, need to learn to see what is hidden and DOES exist so we don't waste our energies playing by the rules that favor psychopaths.

If large scale manipulators had real power they would not need a matrix to conceal them. A person of power does not need to hide in dark corners, and live through lies. Why else would they have demonized the concept of "dark", which has no intrinsic malevolence?

It is not the dark, but it's ability to conceal them that they favour. Yet, the dark can be reclaimed, in the way a blind person learns to feel their way around with senses other than seeing. Then it ceases to be a hiding place for evil. Then it's practically game over for the predators. Seeing is dependent on light, so the metaphor of seeing the unseen can be extended to sensing, feeling, hearing (pure vibratory perception) in the dark.

In that sense, the dark is simply the inability to perceive or sensory impotence. Yet entropic parties have extended the properties of ignorance to nature herself, and anything that absoarbs and magnetizes.

The natural dark absorbs energies, but does not annihilate them. The entropic denizens claiming alliance to the dark do so. What entropic individuals do is take life and turn it to toxicity. What is so "dark" about that?

The natural dark itself absorbs energies in the same way the ground absorbs the roots of a tree, just as the branches grow into the light. The dark as nature and the "lower self" can give us solid ground, and by generating myths about it, and physical nature in general, entropic parties monopolize it through their arbitrary territorializations.

For many the dark signifies the unknown. Here also entropic parties fool us, by playing on our fears. The truth is they have no claim upon it because the unknown is a state where all possibilites are present in potential. Choice is what brings them out, and by playing on our fears certain parties seek to make us think we don't have a choice.

If we can understand the games entropic parties play, as individuals throwing curses or more organized groups cursing humanity and the planet as a whole so they can consume it to destruction, we can turn the tables on them, because in the end their rules are arbitrary. This is also how knowledge protects.

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« Reply #8 on: June 14, 2006, 03:48:04 PM »
Thank you very much  Esoquest.
I really appreciate that you've taken your time to write such a lenghty post (again ;)).

I think it's good to read things again, even if they have been said before, what might have been missed the first time has another chance to be understood.

I realize that I, not only understand (intellectually) these concepts better but that I start to assimilate them better as a whole.
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Offline Nomad

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« Reply #9 on: June 14, 2006, 05:14:04 PM »
a related subject: the idea of people dying of cancer, caused by smoking, because they know that 'smoking causes cancer', (even if... maybe it doesn't?) which would be directly related to ones belief in a system to make it work

This seems to be perhaps slightly different to esoquest's take, specifically:
Quote
Experienced cursers can dissipate this energy into the environment (hence affecting others in a diluted fashion)
Though maybe this could be related to a kind of 'diluted' belief dissappated into society in general, that is then taken up sometimes subconsciously? ie someone saying "my grandad smoked for 90 years and it never did HIM any harm, so why should I worry?", but at the same time taking on the suggestions at a subliminal level, so they eat away inside.
"But whoever commits himself on this field of battle will still find help. It comes to him from two sides: from the depths of his being, and from outside him. In the first case, it is his absolute sincerity towards himself and the purity of the faith with which his heart is aflame." - Mouravieff.

Offline wilecoyote

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« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2006, 10:12:46 AM »
I wonder how effective the creation of an 'energy shield' can be in dissipating harmful energies? And, what shields are effective....the white light tower shield, the bubble shield, the pyramid, the tetrahedron? I mean, what are the tangible effects of creating energy shields?

Feedback anyone?

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« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2006, 10:12:51 AM »
Quote from: Ben
Remember that the C's expand on 'knowledge protects' by saying "always expect attack, know the modes of same, know how to counteract same". In other words, it is the application and understanding of knowledge that protects. I don't know much about curses, but Robert Bruce has written an excellent book called 'Practical Psychic Self Defense' in which his years of experience of dealing with negative entities have revealed an array or counteractive methods. I can't remember how much detail he goes into about 'curses'. I am inclined to agree with EQ when he wrote: "Knowledge protects because it can reveal a state of being that will not respond to the curse energies"
Sorry for the late reply Ben.

I have a book at home from Judy Hall and it's called "the art of psychic protection", I'll have to re-read it for sure but I'll check out the Robert Bruce one.

I have difficulties understanding exactly the part where the C says "know the modes of same, know how to counteract same" but with your explanation and Esoquest post It's getting there...I hope.

Thanks.
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Offline Ben

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« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2006, 02:48:04 PM »
Basically they are saying 'always expect attack, gain knowledge about how attacks are conducted, know how to counteract the attacks'. The Robert Bruce book is fantastic if only for the anecdotal descriptions of his amazing experiences with astral projections, possessions, and how he came across certain counteractive methods which he has developed himself.
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« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2006, 08:02:31 PM »
First of all, thank you very much for another exquisite post EsoQuest !  I can only corroborate, from some personal experience (and not from reading), on most things you have said. Weird for a scientist huh.

So it seems that for a curse to be effective you have to belong to the same system wherein some form of reciprocal relation is present. Within that system it is a matter of faith in ones own personal power. If for some reason, you feel that you aren't being strong enough, above it or otherwise, there is always the possibility of getting out of that particular system. To get out of that particular system however, is ALSO an act of power. It aligns with your way of thinking/feeling/sensing or even Being. It is not easy to truly break with a certain system once one is firmly entrenched within it. It is possible, I think, but definitely not easy. You made an important remark, in that unconsciously people are approving the STS system.

It relates to how I think I have countered certain "curses", i.e. by going really "deep" and out of the outer layers of the false personality. In other words, a form of protection is to go to your "deeper self" where no real attachments are present. As such, the curse feels more like washing through your system, or more to the point through the outer layers of your system, without leaving too much traces (as you have "seen" what it did to the outer bodies in a detached way). This is not like the absorption and transmutation that you talk about. I don't think that I am capable of that just yet. It is more like letting it wash through you instead of deflecting it so that it is returned to the universe. It still can be seen as a form of deflection of course, one that bounces off on a deeper level, less false and more empowered. I have had the impression (could have been wishful thinking) that the universe than sends it back to the perpetrator in a triple whammy. Or is it that my environment would get the energy in a diluted way?

A very obvious, and contemporary arena where one can feel (or sense) the sending of energies (small curses) is modern traffic. The energies sent are usually very primal, almost animal like :/ , and the effect it has on ones system is usually only physical. That is the plus side. The downside is that the energies can be THAT strong that I have found it hard, if not impossible to deflect them, or to not allow them to enter. So I often decide to let them "wash through" me (I don't have any better description right now). The plus of this approach is that I am not sitting with a huge pile of anger/fear. The down side is that it can drive them (the perpetrators) nuts, which again is maybe not the safest option for me or my family while on the road.

At one time I have had an attack that I simply could not deflect, turn away from, or let it wash through me. It was going straight for energy that I was having in my heart chakra. And maybe this wasn't a curse at all and something entirely different. It had the almost "visual" impact of  very big sails/vanes that turned around horizontally above our house one evening and with every wing-stroke each 3 seconds or so (I could almost "hear" it) it was coming closer and closer and stealing, and pushing real hard on my energy. I couldn't get any deeper back than, but maybe I panicked which pushed me into a vicious circle. I don't think I was having some wild imagination; I am not a masochist you see. It was VERY unpleasant. I then decided to do something entirely different. I spent the rest of the evening with pure thinking business. I wasn't very successful though.

As a side note, and related to those stroking wings. Has anybody heard already, when outside, as if coming from somewhere above in the air this eerie whooshing sound with a frequency of about one second. It reminds me of Indian ghost-catchers, as if somebody is forcefully swinging a garden hose of about two to three meters. It happened many times. The last time was about 4 years ago. Nothing was visibly present, but it definitely moved around, left right, and than moving away, and up and down. One day I've been following it and it took me some streets around. At the end, of my little (maybe stupid) investigation, there was a big owl sitting at the corner of our house. Weird! Anybody?


Some of your points though are new to me. For instance, I didn't know about the DNA sample. I thought that the mere intent was sufficient. Could this DNA sample not be just another form of ritual to sort of "aid the faith" of the curser to establish and canalise his intent?

What was also new to me was the ability of experienced cursers to dissipate the returned energy (once successfully deflected) to their environment so that it would not hit them back.

To conclude, I try to remain as far as possible from any form of cursing, even those that are generated at an semi-unconscious level.
Quote from: EsoQuest
Actually the word "occult" is a psychopathic inside joke.

It refers to what is "hidden", only this case what is hidden is not seen because it does not exist.
Heheh...
Yes !!!

Thank you !
“Live as if you were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever.”
Mahatma Gandhi

Offline Ben

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« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2006, 08:47:13 PM »
That is weird, even more so when you know that owls are usually almost completely silent, their wingbeats don't make a sound!
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