What happens if you fail in the work?

Hi altamsh, regarding your post:

altamash said:

While 'failing' will seems like having to restart again. You still have a choice. Im my case i will choose to stay in 5d and finish up there or will incarnate in some high tech planet. I have even considered the possibility that in the near future, one day i will go to sleep and not wake up and continue in the astral or dreamworld whatever it is. It seems more like 4d to me.

Dont forget you always have free will and you can always override your higher self's decision let no one tell you otherwise. The universe owes you this, this is what you are made of and is your greatest asset. Freedom to choose.

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What makes you think that you have the same level of objective thinking in your current 3-D life as you would in 5-D?

I think you might be kidding yourself to think that you know enough about your karmic lesson plan while behind the veil in 3-D to discern what you would decide in 5-D.
Generally, in 3-D all you can see is this life with little access to knowledge of all the lessons you have already learned and all the lessons you need to learn.

Many have a hard time believing they would have chosen such a painful existence while in 5-D, and yet we assume we did. That must be because in 5-D we have a more holistic and comprehensive understanding of our soul's learning and growth needs than what little we can see in this 3-D existence.

I find this thinking reminds me of the New Age concept of cancelling your contracts in this life to make your life easier, as if we know more than our higher self. This is backward thinking, IMO.

Would it not make sense to think that your higher self actually has a better idea of what is in your soul's best interest? Besides, how could you know what your higher self has actually planned for this life? One would need to know such a thing to override decisions made by the higher self.

Part of our journey is to achieve and maintain a connection with our higher selves because we believe our higher selves are more connected to "all that is" with less distortion and interference.

Regarding the question of failing, I think the illusion of failing comes from either the sense that the lessons we need to learn are somehow graded by some authority or that getting to 4-D is somehow the ultimate and most desirable goal of this life.

There is no one grading your lessons. If you do not learn, the same lessons just keep coming. That's all.

And going to 4-D is what happens when one's awareness hits a certain level, merely because it would not be compatible to stay in 3-D with such awareness in the creative, forward moving sense - staying would serve no purpose unless one choses, while in 5-D, to return to help others. Such a return is quite difficult though, as even a 4-D candidate suffers from the illusion of the veil and has no concrete knowledge of their life's purpose.

Gonzo


edit: mod fixed hanging quote

slowone said:

But in the middle of this I realised that I truly don't understand what happens if you do fail at the work.

Do you go to the 5th density when you die and look back over why you failed and then try and learn from those experiences? Or do you go back into the whole cycle from the beginning? either as if you never began the work or right back to 1st density. Is failure "punished" in a sense or is it part of a natural cycle which is for some just part and parcel of the struggle and yet more opportunity to learn.

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I don't think it helps to think of 'failure'. If you've learned a few lessons in this life you'll probably go out a bit better off than when you came in.

It's maybe better to think in terms of going in the right direction no matter how long and arduous the journey seems to be sometimes, rather than the either/or black and white thinking of success or failure.
As for soul smashing and going back to primal atoms, which if I understand correctly might be caused by the wave suddenly having you remember and come to terms with all your lifetimes and being hit by all those emotions all at once, well fluency in the EE can help mitigate that and bring out some emotional baggage before the wave comes. Sort of like shedding some weight from around our neck so it's easier to swim?

If one of your fears is having to re-do 3d again, why fear that when you won't remember this lifetime. And considering the cyclic nature of time I sometimes wonder if we might have done this 300,000 year cycle and got to this position we're in now several times, but forgot it. So why fear it?

I've always remembered this poem which was on the wall of my woodwork class at school and which over the years somehow inspired me sometimes when I was ready to throw the towel in on something I was trying to do.

By Edgar A. Guest

Somebody said that it couldn’t be done,
But he with a chuckle replied
That “maybe it couldn’t,” but he would be one
Who wouldn’t say so till he’d tried.
So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.
Somebody scoffed: “Oh, you’ll never do that;
At least no one ever has done it”;
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he’d begun it.
With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn’t be done, and he did it.
There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you, one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.
But just buckle in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start to sing as you tackle the thing
That “cannot be done,” and you’ll do it.

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slowone said:

On of the things as for many people here that it seems to like to beat me up about is my failure to do the work.

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Hi slowone. It sounds as though you've already decided that you have 'failed' to do the Work.

slowone said:

But in the middle of this I realised that I truly don't understand what happens if you do fail at the work.

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And then you seem to expect to be punished for your failure. At least this is what comes to mind when I read these parts of your post. But this feeling that you deserve punishment – am I correct in my assessment? - that accompanies your 'realisation' that you have 'failed' in the Work, is in fact fuel for the Work. And I think that your expectation of punishment, or at least of something bad happening to you as a consequence of 'failure', is the predator's mind speaking.

For example, a way to use this fear or expectation of failure and punishment might be to look into it and try to find out its roots as a way to learn more about yourself. That would change it from the predator feasting on your energy into fuel for the Work. At another time the feeling might be so strong that all you can do is to hang on for dear life in the raging torrent. But these are both efforts in the direction of Work.

When you say that you have failed to do the Work, have you had recently some kind of 'fall' or period when you felt that nothing was happening? I'm wondering because it is at those times that we can feel that we are getting nowhere or even that we are going backwards – not doing the Work. But really, the efforts we make at such times, just to keep ourselves treading water, are possibly more significant than the efforts we make when we are on a roll, so to speak.

slowone said:

how prominant my negative introject is at the moment but I would like a basic understanding. I suppose what I'm trying to do is unravel my fear or confront it by applying more knowledge and allowing more growth.

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Well, EE will do that for you. Laura mentioned recently that doing the EE program regularly is taxing to the predator's mind. Are you doing EE regularly?

agni said:

All *D's correspond to levels of awareness, it's neither a reward or a punishment. It just is.

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This I think is one of the most difficult ideas to grasp. We are programmed from birth to believe in praise, punishment and judgement: the unholy trinity that has its roots in religion. Praise the Lord. Punish the sinners. The judgement day. Program this into our unconscious, before we're old enough to know what's really going on, and you've got a very nice little set up for social and psychological control, all programmed into us by that ugly old psychopath Yahweh and his partners in crime.

But the opposite is . . . what? No praise. No punishment. No judgement. Which leaves us with what? Only choice and free will, to the extent that we can clean our machine of the unholy trinity. Hence there is no failure, only choices that lead to consequences. Certain choices lead in certain directions, others lead in other directions.

When I was living in Rajneesh communes in the early 1980s, one of the favourite comments to make to someone who had not understood the 'lesson' of the situation, or allowed themselves to really experience their emotion, was: 'You've missed.' It was most often made by those more 'highly developed', and more often by women. Well, I thought about that and I realised that it was without any logical basis. If you repressed anger, for example, when you could have expressed it, then your experience was that of repressing anger. It was not a 'miss' or even a 'failure', it was simply your experience at the time, from which you could learn, or not, as you chose. So to say that someone has 'failed', or 'missed', is completely without merit, imho. You experience what you experience, no matter what it is, and that is your experience: how can you miss it, or fail to experience it?

Perhaps though, if one is worried, or concerned about "failing" in the work - then one is in fact DO-ing the work?
Self questioning, and examining, and checking ones own progress - surely that is an essential part of the path to progress?

I get very concerned at the "speed" of my own progress, but I fear more, the day - that my progress doesn't matter to me any more - then I think I'd be in trouble.

Al

3D Student said:

altamash said:

While 'failing' will seems like having to restart again. You still have a choice. Im my case i will choose to stay in 5d and finish up there or will incarnate in some high tech planet. I have even considered the possibility that in the near future, one day i will go to sleep and not wake up and continue in the astral or dreamworld whatever it is. It seems more like 4d to me.

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How do you know that when you get to 5D you will still want or need to be in a high tech planet? As I understand it, we are looking through a filter when in 3D bodies and can only see a little bit of creation and our lessons. We have an idea of our current lessons, by the things we struggle with, but we probably don't remember exactly what we decided to do in 5D. And I don't think we can know what we'll know when we go back to 5D, once the veil has been lifted.

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Its likely if i have to repeat life then ill be sent to another 3d planet, if higher self permits, my choice would be a technologically advanced planet with interstellar travel. Otherwise whatever is best for me will happen. When im back in 5d i believe i will remember everything i did prior to incarnating here. And chances are i will also be re-merged with all my alters so its more then likely i will be my higher self in full awareness. I'll explain further below.

Gonzo said:

Hi altamsh, regarding your post:

altamash said:

While 'failing' will seems like having to restart again. You still have a choice. Im my case i will choose to stay in 5d and finish up there or will incarnate in some high tech planet. I have even considered the possibility that in the near future, one day i will go to sleep and not wake up and continue in the astral or dreamworld whatever it is. It seems more like 4d to me.

Dont forget you always have free will and you can always override your higher self's decision let no one tell you otherwise. The universe owes you this, this is what you are made of and is your greatest asset. Freedom to choose.

Click to expand...

What makes you think that you have the same level of objective thinking in your current 3-D life as you would in 5-D?

I think you might be kidding yourself to think that you know enough about your karmic lesson plan while behind the veil in 3-D to discern what you would decide in 5-D.
Generally, in 3-D all you can see is this life with little access to knowledge of all the lessons you have already learned and all the lessons you need to learn.

Many have a hard time believing they would have chosen such a painful existence while in 5-D, and yet we assume we did. That must be because in 5-D we have a more holistic and comprehensive understanding of our soul's learning and growth needs than what little we can see in this 3-D existence.

I find this thinking reminds me of the New Age concept of cancelling your contracts in this life to make your life easier, as if we know more than our higher self. This is backward thinking, IMO.

Would it not make sense to think that your higher self actually has a better idea of what is in your soul's best interest? Besides, how could you know what your higher self has actually planned for this life? One would need to know such a thing to override decisions made by the higher self.

Part of our journey is to achieve and maintain a connection with our higher selves because we believe our higher selves are more connected to "all that is" with less distortion and interference.

Regarding the question of failing, I think the illusion of failing comes from either the sense that the lessons we need to learn are somehow graded by some authority or that getting to 4-D is somehow the ultimate and most desirable goal of this life.

There is no one grading your lessons. If you do not learn, the same lessons just keep coming. That's all.

And going to 4-D is what happens when one's awareness hits a certain level, merely because it would not be compatible to stay in 3-D with such awareness in the creative, forward moving sense - staying would serve no purpose unless one choses, while in 5-D, to return to help others. Such a return is quite difficult though, as even a 4-D candidate suffers from the illusion of the veil and has no concrete knowledge of their life's purpose.

Gonzo


edit: mod fixed hanging quote

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Im already aware of that.

To make it clear my understanding so far is that life in 5d is based on the awareness level of the spirit. Since in this incarnation i am aware of the multi-dimensional nature of myself, if i were to suddenly terminate my life i would obviously want to fully unite with my higher self. Now this higher self would be as dense as my current level of awareness and it does not mean the full gravity of 6th density being. In this case my abilities would be to instantly be aware of all aspects of myself.

Also it was stated in the Ra Material that there is always the slow way of progressing by simply staying in 5d. But beings opted for a faster approach by experimenting with physicality. When i say 'overriding' the higher self's decision i mean to opt for an alternate approach which is slower but still on the correct path none the less. Its obvious i dont like it here, i dont hate it but i certainty wont be coming back to a similar environment unless absolutely necessary.

Also in term of spiritual work, im the slowest among everyone here, i do the wrong thing all the times, most of the time on purpose, but my life as been smooth, i could have avoided a lot of things but i didnt, yet i dont worry about what will happen to me. All i know is that im alive and my philosophy in life is to enjoy everyday, learn when you can and try to gain as much knowledge as you can. You can dig up some of my threads to get an idea of what kind of person i am.

How i get thru a difficult situation is by keeping my emotions in control. Never panic, stay calm and let it work out, whether the outcome is good or bad, dont anticipate just deal with it. Life sucks but thats just the way it is.

altamash said:

Its likely if i have to repeat life then ill be sent to another 3d planet, if higher self permits, my choice would be a technologically advanced planet with interstellar travel. Otherwise whatever is best for me will happen. When im back in 5d i believe i will remember everything i did prior to incarnating here. And chances are i will also be re-merged with all my alters so its more then likely i will be my higher self in full awareness. I'll explain further below.

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It seems that you make a lot of 'feel good' assumptions.

altamash said:

Im already aware of that.

To make it clear my understanding so far is that life in 5d is based on the awareness level of the spirit. Since in this incarnation i am aware of the multi-dimensional nature of myself, if i were to suddenly terminate my life i would obviously want to fully unite with my higher self. Now this higher self would be as dense as my current level of awareness and it does not mean the full gravity of 6th density being. In this case my abilities would be to instantly be aware of all aspects of myself.

Also it was stated in the Ra Material that there is always the slow way of progressing by simply staying in 5d. But beings opted for a faster approach by experimenting with physicality. When i say 'overriding' the higher self's decision i mean to opt for an alternate approach which is slower but still on the correct path none the less. Its obvious i dont like it here, i dont hate it but i certainty wont be coming back to a similar environment unless absolutely necessary.

Also in term of spiritual work, im the slowest among everyone here, i do the wrong thing all the times, most of the time on purpose, but my life as been smooth, i could have avoided a lot of things but i didnt, yet i dont worry about what will happen to me. All i know is that im alive and my philosophy in life is to enjoy everyday, learn when you can and try to gain as much knowledge as you can. You can dig up some of my threads to get an idea of what kind of person i am.

How i get thru a difficult situation is by keeping my emotions in control. Never panic, stay calm and let it work out, whether the outcome is good or bad, dont anticipate just deal with it. Life sucks but thats just the way it is.

Click to expand...

Have you read the Wave Series in its entirety? I recall that the last time you visited the forum, you left in a bit of a huff and stated that you were not returning. I'm wondering if, during the time you were away, you had a chance to read the Wave Series or any other of the recommended reading?

To the point of this thread, you've received a lot of good input, slowone. If all there is is lessons, then failure as determined by some external source seems rather limited, doesn't it?

Alphonse said:

the day - that my progress doesn't matter to me any more - then I think I'd be in trouble.

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Actually, it seems the opposite to me. Progress or success or failure does not matter when one's self importance is superseded by a worthy aim.

anart said:

altamash said:

Its likely if i have to repeat life then ill be sent to another 3d planet, if higher self permits, my choice would be a technologically advanced planet with interstellar travel. Otherwise whatever is best for me will happen. When im back in 5d i believe i will remember everything i did prior to incarnating here. And chances are i will also be re-merged with all my alters so its more then likely i will be my higher self in full awareness. I'll explain further below.

Click to expand...

It seems that you make a lot of 'feel good' assumptions.

altamash said:

Im already aware of that.

To make it clear my understanding so far is that life in 5d is based on the awareness level of the spirit. Since in this incarnation i am aware of the multi-dimensional nature of myself, if i were to suddenly terminate my life i would obviously want to fully unite with my higher self. Now this higher self would be as dense as my current level of awareness and it does not mean the full gravity of 6th density being. In this case my abilities would be to instantly be aware of all aspects of myself.

Also it was stated in the Ra Material that there is always the slow way of progressing by simply staying in 5d. But beings opted for a faster approach by experimenting with physicality. When i say 'overriding' the higher self's decision i mean to opt for an alternate approach which is slower but still on the correct path none the less. Its obvious i dont like it here, i dont hate it but i certainty wont be coming back to a similar environment unless absolutely necessary.

Also in term of spiritual work, im the slowest among everyone here, i do the wrong thing all the times, most of the time on purpose, but my life as been smooth, i could have avoided a lot of things but i didnt, yet i dont worry about what will happen to me. All i know is that im alive and my philosophy in life is to enjoy everyday, learn when you can and try to gain as much knowledge as you can. You can dig up some of my threads to get an idea of what kind of person i am.

How i get thru a difficult situation is by keeping my emotions in control. Never panic, stay calm and let it work out, whether the outcome is good or bad, dont anticipate just deal with it. Life sucks but thats just the way it is.

Click to expand...

Have you read the Wave Series in its entirety? I recall that the last time you visited the forum, you left in a bit of a huff and stated that you were not returning. I'm wondering if, during the time you were away, you had a chance to read the Wave Series or any other of the recommended reading?

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No i havent in entirety but i have read the whole transcripts. I dont recall i said im leaving. In any case i am not part of this group spiritually speaking, wherever i go i will progress on my own separate from this group. But i keep an eye on these forums for further developments simply because the 'original' transcripts inspired me (1994-2001).

This explains my nature/personality. Yes i like to feel good. It makes me happy (or in your language, makes my ego happy lol)

Hi alphonse !

alphonse] Perhaps though said:

Alphonse said:

the day - that my progress doesn't matter to me any more - then I think I'd be in trouble.

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Actually, it seems the opposite to me. Progress or success or failure does not matter when one's self importance is superseded by a worthy aim.

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Same here. I actually can't wait for the day, when my own progress does not matter to me :)

Tigersoap said:

It's hard to come to terms with that idea that I won't go in 4D, I will just die and go to 5D, or come back to 3D but what matters is what you do now, what you learn now.

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The way I'm looking at that right now is that I don't care about myself in that respect anymore (I'm setting the bar low), but if I can make a difference for somebody else or a group of people it will have been worth it, or so I think.
Would I like to stick around for 4D? Sure, but I think it's best to be non-anticipatory.

Hi slowone.

Your questions seem to be patterned after a "game" analogy, where if you lose (fail at the work) you get punished (sent back to some square?) and maybe have to start over (from square one?).

If this kind of analogy works for you, then just turn it into a "non-zero sum game". If you have an Aim and you take things step-by-step, then a particular intention either succeeds or not; and if not, then hey! you've learned something new that you didn't know before!

Maybe the introject is a way of keeping someone idealized in memory (as a role). The introject wants to be helpful by keeping you safe, but for that to work when you have outgrown the need for it, you have to continue to project a fearful future of failure for yourself to keep from seeing the introject's manipulations, OSIT.

I realized what was going on when I was dealing with the First Initiation. I knew that I shared a common core with R. D. Laing's "mystified" people (in the book 'Knots') who saw the behavior of their relatives as kindness instead of the cruelty that it was and so couldn't understand why they were always unhappy.

The common core was that a part of me deep down (or way back in time, if you prefer) still believed the introject was being helpful and didn't mean any harm. Each individual will have to explore this possibility for him/herself to see if it applies, OSIT.

Doing Recapitulation with the knowledge of dissociation and narcissism, along with the effort to see things as they really are/were has been invaluable in coming to this realization. :)

Seems to me that concern about what happens when failing is really anticipating the results, and the work is best done without this.

slowone said:

Do you go to the 5th density when you die and look back over why you failed and then try and learn from those experiences? Or do you go back into the whole cycle from the beginning? either as if you never began the work or right back to 1st density. Is failure "punished" in a sense or is it part of a natural cycle which is for some just part and parcel of the struggle and yet more opportunity to learn.

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I think it depends on many factors where one will go after they leave this life. But I also believe that its not entirely possible for us to know where we will end up, so I think its best not to overly worry about it.

slowone said:

Or perhaps you couldn't seem to get past a particular stage of your development in the work despite all of the mirrors and/or advice given to you to help you see the reality of your situation. Not showing progress.

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I was also thinking about the progress issue earlier on today. Personally I felt like Ive not made much progress at all, with all the resources I have. Then I had a thought that maybe its my predator that's making me feel this way, in order to discourage me from continuing with the work. I think that we do indeed make progress, but we seem not able to see it because of are inner demons clouding are view.

Jerry said:

Seems to me that concern about what happens when failing is really anticipating the results, and the work is best done without this.

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I agree with what Jerry has said. I think all we can do, is try are best and not overly worry about it. Because if we start to overly worry about it, then it will start to take over are lives.

My two cents.

Infiniteness said:

I agree with what Jerry has said. I think all we can do, is try are best and not overly worry about it. Because if we start to overly worry about it, then it will start to take over are lives.

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I'd just add that perhaps worry isn't good, but self-observation should, if nothing else, give you an idea of how you're doing. So if you do nothing else, at least try to self-observe your behavior, feelings, and thoughts - or at least reflect on it in retrospect if you can't self-observe in real time, and try to see what is driving your behavior. I don't think you can fail or succeed per se since that implies a time limit - which we're not necessarily privy to (even though there may very well be a time limit, it's just not for us to really know). Thus you didn't "fail" until either you decided yourself that you "failed" (which is conscious decision to give up), or you're dead or some other circumstance literally prevents you from doing the Work - which seems almost impossible if you're still breathing.

It's never too late until it is too late - and it's not for us to know when "too late" is, although it can be very tempting to assume we know this. But that's probably just the negative introject talking though, that whole self-loathing and self-pitying and self-judging part that likes to make you think of yourself as having failed or being unable to succeed at something due to some illusory personal flaw that it also makes up. Sitting around thinking you're a failure at the Work or anything else is just not helpful, and it's really not true unless you decided to make it true, but then it's a self-fulfilling prophecy and nothing else.

So cheer up, as Will Smith likes to say in Independence Day - it's not over till the fat lady sings. No time to sit around sulking or worrying about how we're doing. Reflecting is good, but in our mechanical state it's very hard to reflect without our programs instantly judging and assuming things and making prognostications and anticipating etc. But reflection is not for judgment, it's for learning about ourselves and to allow for course corrections when we're aware enough to do that consciously, and none of that includes making judgments. So even if it's hard to avoid making judgments, if we're aware that the point of our reflection is NOT to judge, we can spot those judgments and assumptions and ignore them, give them no energy.

slowone said:

In trying to look at my programmes running at the moment. One of the things that crops up is my extremely negative introject.

One of the things as for many people here is that it seems to like to beat me up about my failure to do the work. looking in the swamp I realise that this is common for very many of us and I fully intend to keep working at understanding myself more.

But in the middle of this I realised that I truly don't understand what happens if you do fail at the work.

Do you go to the 5th density when you die and look back over why you failed and then try and learn from those experiences? Or do you go back into the whole cycle from the beginning? either as if you never began the work or right back to 1st density. Is failure "punished" in a sense or is it part of a natural cycle which is for some just part and parcel of the struggle and yet more opportunity to learn.

My use of the term "punished" is confused even as I write it , I think that has to do with how prominant my negative introject is at the moment but I would like a basic understanding. I suppose what I'm trying to do is unravel my fear or confront it by applying more knowledge and allowing more growth.

I did look for a thread on the forum but maybe I missed it.



edit: spelling

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I don't think any of us knows for sure what happens to anyone after they die. This is why it is a waste of energy to worry about this, or so I think. Who even knows for sure if there really is a 3D, 4D, 5D, etc. This is all theory at this point?

I stopped worrying about this sort of thing a while ago simply because I find it a fruitless endeavor at this point. I would rather use my energy in trying to find my programs, observe them and see if I can get a handle on them. Use the energy to help others as well. I think that you have a program running to keep you occupied and not doing.

Maybe you would want to start looking at why you are using your energy on these questions? It is obviously caused by fear. Fear of failure? Fear of being left?

Turn this question around from what will happen when I die, to why am I caring about what will happen when I die? This will get you back on track and doing again. And then just keep going on from there.

I think that we all have this fear at one time or another. But, when you think about it, this is not the right question. The right question is, when you die, will you be happy with what you have accomplished while you were alive?

fwiw