Author Topic: Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups  (Read 31125 times)

Offline Laura

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Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups
« on: February 12, 2006, 02:32:10 PM »
Over the past week or so I've been updating pages and links on our psychopathy section of the websites.  Part of this labor includes not only going finding new material, but going to all the old linked articles to make sure the links still work and seeing what is new, who we want to support by sending traffic their way and so on.

Well, it turned up some interesting things.

First, there is the Narcissism Support Group run by someone called "Invicta" who may also be "Nicky Skye."  This is located here: http://groups.msn.com/NarcissismSupportGroupMoralandSpiritualStruggle/home.msnw

If you go to this page, what do you see right at the top?

Why, a copy of the Hervey Cleckley "Mask of Sanity" that QFG worked on for almost three months getting it word perfect.  What you do NOT see is a link, a thank-you, or a "how de do" to QFG.
The link to "their" copy of Mask of Sanity is here:http://www.angelfire.com/md3/undergroundmind/sanity_1.pdf
and the link to ours is here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/sanity_1.PdF

Now, since I am the one that edited the scan, and nearly went blind doing so, that DOES bug me a bit.  Even Robert Hare wrote to me to ask for details about the pdf before snagging it.

But that is not all.  The next thing I noticed on this Narcissist Support group was a "Warning" list of sites to "question."  This can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/narcissism_caution_internet.html

We go and read this list and find that Sam Vaknin and "Femfree" are the "baddies".  Femfree is bad because she steals other people's work and presents it as her own.  Hmmmm.....

At the bottom, we notice more links including one to an article entitled "InnerLandscape of the Socialized Psychopath"  which can be found here: http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/Cleckley1.html

At this point, it is not a surprise to discover that this is taken directly from my transcription from Cleckley's book which I published here: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/innerpsycho.htm

Then we see "Case Study: "The Psychopath as Physician" here: http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/CleckleyPsycho1.html

which is half of my transcription here: http://www.cassiopaea.com/cassiopaea/sanity25.htm

The second half of it is posted as "The Psychopath as Psychiatrist" here: http://www.angelfire.com/zine2/narcissism/CleckleyPsycho2.html

What we notice, of course, is that other than the transcriptions I made myself, this website has no other material from Cleckley to offer.

The fact is, I put the material up on the website to help people and if there are individuals who snag it and use it and it helps someone, that is fine by me.  But it does make me question this "Invicta" person when I read here:
http://groups.msn.com/NarcissismSupportGroupMoralandSpiritualStruggle/femfreetheplagiarist.msnw

What she is saying about other people "lifting" her work:

Quote from: Invicta
I placed this post on this site at the beginning of its inception, which was in March 2002.

Now "femfree" has just posted "Grieving the Loss". Do you see similarities? In rhythm, in content? IMO, Nicky Skye has been ripped off. Intellectual property has been stolen, plagiarised. Paraphrasing is not originality. Should you trust a person who does this? This is a person who trolls this site and board for what reason? She has 4 other boards to manage.  ....

Btw, I have to add this: she writes- Our awareness of our susceptibility in having our blessed, wonderful nurturing characteristics turned against us by this disordered person.

Well according to everything she has written this makes us co-dependent. We are excessively nurturing and therefore weak and a "target". I wish she'd get her story straight. Many, many links are offered about co-dependency- pathologising us, in effect, and surely making people doubt themselves and their strengths.

***Now imagine if this plagiarist rationalised her duplicity and thievery by saying that the original author stole it herself, so Femfree was justified in using it without honouring copyright. So, in effect, she would not only be "smearing" the author, but also justifying her own actions with the logic that '2 wrongs make a right'. And one would have to wonder, if she knew it was stolen, then why not give credit to the original source? Imagine if this were true. [Said article is now embedded in heavily disguised form in Survival Skills II]
Do we see a bit of the pot calling the kettle black?

There's more.  If you go here: http://groups.msn.com/NarcissismSupportGroupMoralandSpiritualStruggle/links.msnw

you will see a list of sites they DO link to and/or recommend.  You will notice my transcriptions listed there again, but another thing you will see is this: "Cults and Brainwashing" with a link to that psychopath posing as a cult-deprogrammer, Rick Ross; pal of Vinnie Bridges and the rest of the cyber thugs.  

So, it looks like the whole psychopathy/narcissism issue is now the purview of narcissists and psychopaths out there doing what they do best: twist, distort and confuse.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline anart

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« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2006, 11:29:32 PM »
Laura wrote: "So, it looks like the whole psychopathy/narcissism issue is now the purview of narcissists and psychopaths out there doing what they do best: twist, distort and confuse."

It makes me wonder if this is indicative of an increase in the number of psychopaths - it's not even an obscure topic anymore.  Five years ago, when I met my psychophage, I had no idea that the whole Narcissism/Psychopathology 'issue' existed - now, information on it seems to be popping up in so many places (other than here) - do you think that this is a result of an increase in the number of people being victimized (exposed to and influenced by) by  psychopaths, and would that also point to an increase in the number of psychopaths in our society?  It could also be a simple correlation to the increasing availability of information and disinformation on the web, or even of my own ability to spot these things now that I've been 'educated', so to speak - creating a familiarity filter in my mind ( like after you buy a certain type of car, you seem to see that type of car everywhere you go).  

It's just another one of those things that I wonder about - are psychopaths popping up everywhere lately because they actually are everywhere lately - or do we have the same number of them swimming around us, only with more access to the public 'mind'?

Offline Redrock12

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« Reply #2 on: August 23, 2006, 10:37:25 PM »
Probably a little of both.
Men use thoughts only to justify their injustices,
and speech only to conceal their thoughts.
-Voltaire

Niceness is a decision.

Offline purplehaze

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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2008, 01:12:34 AM »
Apologies that this reply is a to a 2 year old post.

Invicta eventually closed her support forum.  She still pops up from time to time to attack Femfree (Vaknin's proxy) and Vaknin.  But she herself alienated so many people on her own forum it lost steam.

While she did a good job of dissecting Vaknin, she used her 'superior attitude' like a weapon on her own forum and lost members.  Too bad because there needs to be an alternative to Vaknin's boards.  He's got so much stuff up on the web if you are a recovering victim you can't help but trip all over his musings plastered all over the web.

The fact that Invicta didn't ask or even give you attribution speaks volumes.

Offline Laura

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« Reply #4 on: March 11, 2008, 12:30:26 PM »
Quote from: purplehaze
Apologies that this reply is a to a 2 year old post.

Invicta eventually closed her support forum.  She still pops up from time to time to attack Femfree (Vaknin's proxy) and Vaknin.  But she herself alienated so many people on her own forum it lost steam.

While she did a good job of dissecting Vaknin, she used her 'superior attitude' like a weapon on her own forum and lost members.  Too bad because there needs to be an alternative to Vaknin's boards.  He's got so much stuff up on the web if you are a recovering victim you can't help but trip all over his musings plastered all over the web.

The fact that Invicta didn't ask or even give you attribution speaks volumes.
Well, I can understand how a person can get really confused when working in and with this topic because the ability of the psychopath and narcissist to confuse issues, to divide and conquer, is legendary.  That IS what they do, oh so well, if not best.  

Just having a couple of experiences with the type is not generally enough to really teach a person about what they are dealing with.  You have to spend a LOT of time reading cases, studying, digging for information, talking to other people about their experiences, and just generally collecting all the data you can get.  It doesn't look like Invicta did that, really.  

The "superior attitude" you mention is a dead giveaway that a person really thinks they have the whole thing figured out and they are not open either to the input of others, or to consider the fact that maybe they are not so smart after all.  As I say over and over and over again, it takes a network of people who are really dedicated to the truth to unmask one of the really good ones.  

And, of course, one of the first things a person has to do is figure out what it is in themselves that made them blind to begin with, and never assume that you have overcome that blindness.  Very often, you never will, but you CAN know your weakness and consult with others about it.  Most people are just not willing to admit that they can be fooled.  The very mindset that they have that allowed them to be caught by the predator the first time, assures them that they won't get caught again and this is a big error.  

You have to really, REALLY, grok the fact that you got victimized because you have a blindspot.  Oh, yeah, generally this blindspot is that you are a caring, giving person who does not think ill of others and are easily moved emotionally so we would not ordinarily consider it a "flaw."  But in a world controlled by psychopaths, we cannot rely on everyone else being caring and giving and decent because they are obviously not.

So, in a sense, the flaw, the blindspot, is one that is created by our society, our upbringing, all of which is dictated by the norms established by those in power which are designed to keep us dumb and stupid so that we are easy prey.   Religions are behind most of that, too.  

What a mess this world is in!
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline purplehaze

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« Reply #5 on: April 14, 2008, 01:40:15 PM »
Quote from: Laura
So, in a sense, the flaw, the blindspot, is one that is created by our society, our upbringing, all of which is dictated by the norms established by those in power which are designed to keep us dumb and stupid so that we are easy prey.   Religions are behind most of that, too.  

What a mess this world is in!
It would appear Sandra Brown agrees with us:

http://howtospotadangerousman.blogspot.com/2008/04/professionals-in-helping-industries.html

Also, the children of Narcs and Psychopaths, while often 'normal' themselves, are given a blindspot by their parents.

The religion model preaches that stupid word FORGIVENESS.  You can't just FORGIVE the unrepentant.  Here's a couple from Kathy Krajco on that:

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/03/healing-and-forgiveness.html

http://narc-attack.blogspot.com/2008/02/religion-and-victimhood.html

It truly is a mess because now many are literally afraid to show disagreement or concern over the bullpocky that the psychopaths-in-charge heap on the public.  We barely even know the difference anymore.

Offline webglider

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« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2008, 06:57:57 PM »
Quote from: purplehaze
The religion model preaches that stupid word FORGIVENESS.  You can't just FORGIVE the unrepentant.
My understanding for the reason to forgive is to release the victim from the negativity of harboring negative emotions that can render the victim food for sts entities.  Victims who walk around with bitterness, hatred, and fantasies of revenge have different experiences of life than those who don't.

This is not to say that justice should not be pursued.  Justice should most definitely be sought if the victim wishes to pursue this course.

Forgiveness seems to me to be no more than cutting the cord that binds the victim to the predator.  The predator is a predator - it is its nature to prey.  The victim has a wider range of options, and real chances for growth.  

Forgiveness is simply a method of surfacing from an horrific situation and refusing to allow a psychopath to embitter,  determine, and possibly destroy the rest of one's life.  Forgiveness is for the victim's good not for the psychopath's.  And it certainly shouldn't be used to allow the psychopath back into one's life.
Many are the things that man seeing must understand. Not seeing, how shall he know what lies in the hand of time to come?

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"Think not those faithful who praise all thy words and actions; but those who kindly reprove thy faults."
— Socrates

Offline swanseagal

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« Reply #7 on: May 25, 2008, 04:34:11 AM »
I lived for years in shadows of these people.  Only working out last year really what was going on.  You are right to say they are very very clever.  These are male and females who get what they want without us knowing.  A few people have the ability to see through them and this is usually after being abused by them before.  I agree about the blindspot and if you can work out what yours is you protect yourself from all future encounters and mayl be able to stop others being hurt as well.     For a while I thought it must be me causing the trouble in my life and I could not work out why certain things happened.  To me a narcissist is like a black hole.  You only know they are at work because of the reaction of other elements around them.  Like the serial killer who goes undetected for years.  The police may have clue after clue but it is no good unless they link it all together.
The narcissist is a great actor massaging the egos of those around him or her.  The damage they do is horrific and carefully planned and executed,  I don't forgive the ones I have come into contact with but I understand why they are the way they are and for the most part they were playing on my insecurities.  If the narcissist works out you know him by his real name so to speak he will then seek to destroy you or your credibility.  I am working on my ability to suss these people out and not alert them to the fact.  Think of the power of these people as social workers judges politicians...
The worst is not so long as we can say this is the worst

Offline purplehaze

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« Reply #8 on: May 25, 2008, 07:06:42 PM »
We still cannot o.k. forgiveness for the unrepentant.  Some things simply cannot and should not be forgiven.

Quote from: webglider
Forgiveness is for the victim's good not for the psychopath's.  And it certainly shouldn't be used to allow the psychopath back into one's life.

Offline purplehaze

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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2008, 07:08:34 PM »
A good site for you:  http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

Quote from: piranah
Think of the power of these people as social workers judges politicians...

Offline Miss Isness

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« Reply #10 on: May 25, 2008, 07:18:16 PM »
I think victims just need to learn how to forgive themselves.  That may sound strange, but there is a tendency to blame/be angry with oneself for not knowing better.  If we can forgive ourselves it's possible to still seek justice without getting consumed by negative emotions.  I agree that it doesn't make sense to forgive the unrepentant - that would just mean opening yourself up to being hurt again.
something went right, I guess I am learning, the black and the white, the infinite burning....

Offline purplehaze

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« Reply #11 on: May 26, 2008, 03:22:11 AM »
Yes, we see our victims kick themselves again & again - and we have to say repeatedly - IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT -
no matter how much the cyberpath wants to TELL you its YOUR fault - it's not.  Victims need our support - repeatedly.

We also live in society that feels much more comfortable blaming victims than predators.

Offline swanseagal

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« Reply #12 on: May 30, 2008, 03:19:34 AM »
Quote from: purplehaze
A good site for you:  http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/traits.html

Quote from: piranah
Think of the power of these people as social workers judges politicians...
Thanks purple haze the link is great.  I am hungry for information and do not consider myself to know anything like the whole truth.  The good thing is I can use it as a spring board to the rest of my life.  For the first time in years I am free to think for myself act for myself and make friends for myself.  It is a discovery many never make.  The sad thing is many never realize the narcissist is there until they feel his/her teeth.  It is a lot safer when you realize smiles have teeth behind them.  I used to race into friendships and social situations thereby advertising myself to all narcissists in the neighborhood. Now after learning to like myself I do not need to do this. Emotional stability is the best weapon.
The worst is not so long as we can say this is the worst

Offline Guardian

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Re: Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups
« Reply #13 on: November 08, 2011, 07:40:36 PM »
you will see a list of sites they DO link to and/or recommend.  You will notice my transcriptions listed there again, but another thing you will see is this: "Cults and Brainwashing" with a link to that psychopath posing as a cult-deprogrammer, Rick Ross; pal of Vinnie Bridges and the rest of the cyber thugs. 

I found something very interesting.  When I visit Michele Comford Jone's website "Living With A Psychopath - When The Mask Slips." _http://masksofsanity.blogspot.com/

I get a warning message from Malwarebytes regarding Rick Ross's  IP  "88.80.7.8"
Quote
Malwarebytes-Anti Malware
Successfully blocked access to a potentially malicious website  88.80.7.8

http://cassiopaea-cult.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/warning_rickRossSite_2-1024x575.jpg
Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups


I get the exact same warning on both of Barbara Camwell Ness's websites "Sanctuary for the Abused" _http://abusesanctuary.blogspot.com/  and "Exposing On-line Predators and Psychopaths" _http://cyberpaths.blogspot.com/



http://cassiopaea-cult.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/warning_rickRossSite_3-1024x575.jpg
Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups


http://cassiopaea-cult.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/11/warning_rickRossSite_4-1024x575.jpg
Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups
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Offline Laura

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Re: Invicta: MA Counseling and Narcissist Support Groups
« Reply #14 on: November 08, 2011, 09:34:46 PM »
Why am I not surprised?  That Rick Ross is an EVIL man, responsible for the deaths of the Branch Davidians at Waco - at least partly responsible.   Yeah, they were a cult - a Christian cult - but they were harmless until Ross and Reno started persecuting them.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus