Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 Crashes in Ukraine

The saga continues with an RT article on SOTT based on an anti-Bellingcat report (22 page PDF file in English) from a group of Russian activists consisting of bloggers, journalists, aviation experts and volunteers; they concentrate on the BUK system specs:

https://www.sott.net/article/328871-Inaccurate-and-flawed-Russian-bloggers-raise-more-questions-about-Bellingcat-MH17-investigation

A group of Russian activists has released a fresh batch of discrepancies spotted in the MH17 investigation by their British peers, Bellingcat. Among other inaccuracies and flaws, the report cites Bellingcat's ignorance of technical details.

The Russian report is based on the investigation carried out by a team of bloggers, journalists, aviation experts and volunteers calling themselves 'Anti-Bellingcat'. It makes use of the technical expertise of the Russian arms producer Almaz-Antey.

The biggest challenge for them is to help shed light on the absolute truth behind the tragedy. Their primary objective is to cut short the continuous spread of disinformation regarding the MH17 international investigation.

According to the authors of the Russian report, published on Tuesday, Bellingcat is "ready to design any version whatsoever meant to accuse Russia."

"That's an information war," Mikhail Malyshevsky, an adviser to the chief designer of Almaz-Antey, said in an interview with the Komsomolskya Pravda daily.

"[Bellingcat's] version [of the tragedy] is evidence-free. They do not build a version based on facts, but trim the facts to fit their version. Just to give an example, the Dutch, at the suggestion of Bellingcat, claim that the missile flew toward the plane. This has been refuted by all our data, both mathematical and experimental," he noted on Friday.

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Two short Reports out of Russia ....

Russian arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey said Thursday it has submitted to authorities a report on the air situation and airspace radar images in the area of the 2014 Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine.

Almaz-Antey Submits Airspace Data of MH17 Crash Site to Russian Authorities
https://sputniknews.com/world/20160922/1045592115/almaz-antey-mh17.html

Almaz-Antey experts uncovered materials of possible interest to the deadly July 17, 2014, crash after inspecting the manufacturer's Enroute Radar Facility office archives, the company said in a statement.

"This relates to so-called raw primary radar images of the airspace. Currently, all primary radar data stored at the Research and Production Corporation 'Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant' [part of Almaz-Antey] has been submitted to Russia's competent authorities for examination and onward submission to the Netherlands," Almaz-Antey added.

It said the electromechanical plant's experts "replaced data carriers from the Ust-Donetsk Utes-T air route radar surveillance complex processors containing data about the traffic situation in July 2014, including July 17, 2014, in the area of the Malaysian Boeing disaster over Ukraine."

The Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant specializes in radar and control system production.

Russia's Investigative Committee will forward airspace and primary radar data relating to the Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 crash in east Ukraine to Dutch authorities, the committee's spokesman said Thursday.

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Russia to Send Almaz-Antey's MH17 Airspace Data to Netherlands
https://sputniknews.com/world/20160922/1045592563/russia-almaz-antey-mh17.html

The Almaz-Antey arms manufacturer said in a statement earlier that one of its radar and control system production plants uncovered and submitted raw primary radar images of the Donetsk airspace that includes the date of the crash, July 17, 2014.

"This information regarding the disaster came to the disposal of the Russian Investigative Committee and will soon be handed over to the Dutch," spokesman Vladimir Markin told reporters.

Thanks for finding and sharing these news items, angelburst29.

This really is important since the raw radar data are still missing as a resource, and this subject was already touched upon several times earlier, like here, here, here and here.

Palinurus said:

Thanks for finding and sharing these news items, angelburst29.

This really is important since the raw radar data are still missing as a resource, and this subject was already touched upon several times earlier, like here, here, here and here.

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May be with this information, Russia might put some pressure on the Netherland Group - to lay all the cards on the table and get moving with this long drawn out investigation? They can't stay in "limbo" forever? Relatives want answers!

Due to different redacting Sputnik News brings its report on the anti-Bellingcat group's activities as a two-parter, the first part on September 14 (mainly about the new Almaz-Antey revelations) and the second one on September 20 (mainly about the anti-Bellingcat report) and in addition they highlight different details. So for archiving purposes:

https://sputniknews.com/europe/20160914/1045312486/bellingcat-misinformation-mh17-investigation.html

https://sputniknews.com/russia/20160920/1045517397/mh17-lies-report.html

For archiving purposes (via RT, no new information):

https://www.sott.net/article/329130-Almaz-Antey-hands-over-radar-data-on-MH17-inquiry-other-countries-should-follow-suit

Two articles from the Russian Defense Ministry and a 23 minute RT video below that's also included in the second article that was live about 8 hours ago. Russia is kicking BUTT!

Ukraine is directing the probe into MH17 passenger plane crash near Donetsk on the wrong track, the Russian Defense Ministry said. A former Ukrainian lawmaker said that Kiev and the West is deliberately delaying the investigation.

Real Reason Behind the Delay of Investigation Into MH17 Crash in Ukraine
https://sputniknews.com/world/20160926/1045721751/mh17-crash-investigation.html

The Russian Defense Ministry said that the MH17 crash investigation is on the wrong track because the missile type and launch point were identified incorrectly.

As a member of the joint investigative group, Ukraine clearly holds back data and manipulates the probe which is taking a wrong path; from providing controversial data on projectiles to wrongly identifying the type of the missile and subsequently the time of its launch," Defense Ministry Spokesperson Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov said at a briefing Monday.

He also said that Kiev has not yet made public data on the location of its Buk system's location and air traffic control communications on the day of the MH17 crash in eastern Ukraine.

Former Ukrainian lawmaker Alexander Golub said that from the very beginning Kiev has not been interested in an unbiased investigation into the catastrophe.

"The Ukrainian government has seen the MH17 crash as a propaganda tool to demonize Russia. It has become an important part of Ukraine’s Russophobia. I think Kiev was not interested and now is not interested in an impartial investigation," he told Radio Sputnik.

He added that the United States has not provided information on the disaster too.

"The US is on Ukrainian government’s side. If Washington had information shedding light on the catastrophe it should provide it. But the US cannot do that," Golub said. According to him, the investigation is deliberately being delayed. "I think the reason is that the investigation is giving the results the West doesn’t like. I don’t know if they can manipulate the final result but now they are delaying the probe. I can’t rule out that finally the story will turn into a secret of Polichinelle," he suggested. However, he noted, the situation could change after the presidential election in the US.

If the new people in the US presidential administration don’t have any obligations with Kiev, some information could be made public, and we’ll have a clear answer who is responsible for the catastrophe," Golub said.

The Malaysia Airlines Boeing 777 en route from Amsterdam to Kuala Lumpur crashed on July 17, 2014, in the Donetsk region of Ukraine. All 298 people on board were killed. The probe has been carried out by a joint investigative team comprising the Netherlands, Australia, Ukraine, Belgium and Malaysia.

A company that produces radiolocation radars and the Russian Defense Ministry presented radar data that was gathered in the airspace over the MH17 plane crash, which occurred on July 17, 2014 and claimed the lives of all 298 people on board.

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Russian MoD Presents Radar Data From MH17 Crash Site (Video)
https://sputniknews.com/russia/20160926/1045706155/mh17-crash-site.html

Russia detected a Ukrainian radar near MH17 crash site proving the presence of Kiev's air defense system, the Russian Defense Ministry spokesman said.

Satellite data cited by the US and Ukraine could clarify the issue of the missile launch on the Malaysia Airlines aircraft from Kiev-held territory, Igor Konashenkov said.

He said that Kiev withholds data showing the images of MH17 crash on purpose as the flight was controlled by Ukrainikan radars and air defense. Kiev's refusal to release its radar data suggests that the missile had been launched from Kiev-held territory, Lt. Gen. Konashenkov said. "It's not a coincidence that the Ukrainian side is hiding information that could help to reveal the whole picture of the crash. The flight MH17 was controlled by Ukrainian radars, air defense units and Ukrainian air traffic controllers."

Ukraine should unveil information on the location of its Buk SAM system's location and air traffic control communication on the day of the MH17 crash in east Ukraine, the Russian Defense Ministry said.

"Kiev has not made public the information on the locations of its Buk missile systems on the day of the crash, negotiations of air traffic controllers, servicemen, on its radars, data on the work of Ukrainian air defense, witnesses' comments."

Kiev has both military and civilian information related to the airspace situation near the MH17 crash site.

Russian radar has not detected third-party objects except for two civilian aircraft around MH17 crash site that could have caused its destruction, deputy chief designer of the Ust-Donetsk Utes-T air route radar surveillance complex of the Research and Production Corporation 'Lianozovo Electromechanical Plant,’ a part of Almaz-Antey concern, said Monday.

Russian radars would have detected a missile that hit Malaysia Airlines plane if it had been launched from the area controlled by the Donbass militia, Konashenkov said. The Russian Defense Ministry said that
the MH17 crash investigation is on the wrong track because the missile type and launch point are identified incorrectly.

"As a member of the joint investigative group, Ukraine clearly holds back data and manipulates the probe which is taking a wrong path; from providing controversial data on projectiles to wrongly identifying the type of the missile and subsequently the time of its launch."

Russia vowed to provide data by Almaz-Antey on the airspace situation near the MH17 crash site to Netherlands investigating the tragedy.

LIVE: Press event presenting radar data observed above MH17 crash site
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8SHZriRbi8 (23:23 min)

During a special press event, a company that produces radiolocation radars and Russia’s Ministry of Defense will present the primary radiolocation data that was gathered in the airspace above the area of the MH17 plane crash, which occurred on July 17, 2014 and claimed the lives of all 298 people on board.

Thanks, angelburst29. You beat me to it as I was just about to post the following. Have removed the YT video embed now.

Today SOTT carries an RT article about today's MoD press conference concerning the Almaz-Antey radar data:

https://www.sott.net/article/329301-New-Russian-radar-data-shows-no-missile-attack-on-MH17-from-rebel-side-indicates-Ukraine-involvement

<snip>
The existence of raw data was announced last week by Almaz-Antey, the producer of the Buk missile system. The system is believed by an international investigation to have caused the 2014 crash over Ukraine.

One of Almaz-Antey's subsidiaries is the producer of the Utyos-T civilian radar station. One such station is deployed near Ust-Donetsky village in western Russia. According to Almaz-Antey, memory chips from that station were replaced in July 2014, a month after the tragic incident, and were discovered recently. Until now no raw radar data of the situation around MH17 at the time it was destroyed was thought to exist.

The Lianozovsky Electromechanical Plant, the producer of Utyos-T, presented the raw data on Monday at a media briefing in Moscow. The data showed three civilian aircraft in the vicinity, including the MH17. The one closest to it was flying about 30km from the Malaysian Boeing at the time it was shot down.

The data indicates no sign of a missile present in the air approaching the MH17 from the south, which would be the case if it were shot from rebel-held areas in accordance with the scenario supported by Kiev. The missile could have not been picked up by the radar if it approached from the west or the east, along the line connecting the radar station and the airliner, Viktor Meshcheryakov, the company's chief radar designer, noted.

General Andrey Koban, the head of the Russian Air Forces' radar troops, said the Russian civilian radar easily located an Orlan-10 surveillance drone, which was circling closer to the Russian-Ukrainian border over Russian territory at the time of the incident. A Buk missile would be easier to detect than the drone, he said.

The Russian military said Ukraine's refusal to publish its radar data, the positions of air defense batteries it had deployed in the area, and communications between MH17 and the Ukrainian traffic controller directing its flight towards the rebel-held areas in eastern Ukraine, made it look suspicious.

"The Ukrainian side has air situation data in the area of the Malaysian Airlines Boeing 777 crash from both civilian and military sources. The fact that Ukraine has not published radar data leads us to the conjecture that the missile, if it was a Buk, was launched from territory under the control of the Ukrainian military," the general said.

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Bellingcat was quick to respond, laying emphasis on the fact that these new radar data contradict the previous stance of Russian MoD in July 2014 when a Ukrainian fighter jet was mentioned as the probable perpetrator:

_https://www.bellingcat.com/news/uk-and-europe/2016/09/26/russian-defence-ministry-presents-evidence-faked-previous-mh17-evidence/

The Joint Investigation Team (JIT) that is investigating the MH17 plane crash in eastern Ukraine in 2014 is to present on Wednesday a preliminary report containing information about the type of a missile that hit the Malaysia Airlines Boeing and the exact launch site.

Joint Investigation Team to Name Launch Site of Missile Used to Down MH17 Flight
https://sputniknews.com/world/20160928/1045768937/mh-17-missile-launch-site.html

The paper is not expected to answer the question who was responsible for the air crash that killed 298 people on July 17, 2014. The Dutch General Prosecutor’s Office pointed out that the work would continue and the final report would be issued in late 2016 – early 2017.

On October 13, 2015, the Dutch Security Council issued results of its own investigation. The council did not try to blame any party to the conflict in Ukraine for the plane crash – it revealed that the jet was hit by a 9M38 missile fired from a Buk missile system. The Security Council’s report only said that the missile had been launched from a 320-square-kilometer (more than 120 square miles) area in eastern Ukraine.

Russia agreed with the report’s conclusion that the missile exploded near the left side of the jet. But Russia’s arms manufacturer Almaz-Antey said that it was a proof that the missile had been launched from the Zaroshchenske region controlled by Ukrainian armed forces. According to Almaz-Antey, if the missile had been launched from Snezhnoye controlled by eastern Ukrainian pro-independence militia, it would have hit the right side of the plane.

Moscow also denied the allegations that the plane was hit by 9Н314М modification of the missile. Despite the fact that Russian experts were not invited in JIT, they were asked for help during the investigation. The Netherlands asked for primary radar images of the Ukrainian air space obtained in the time of the crash. Russia managed to gain these data that revealed no objects that could have caused destruction of the jet.

According to Andrei Koban, the chief of Radio-Technical Troops of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the Russian radar would have detected a missile launched east of the flight MH17 crash site. He added that technical capabilities of the Russian means of objective control did not allow concluding whether the missile had been launched from the areas south or west of the crash site. Koban added that Ukrainian air defense forces had such capabilities.

Russian Defense Ministry spokesman Maj. Gen. Igor Konashenkov echoed Koban saying that the Ukrainian authorities were hiding data about the MH17 crash as the flight had been controlled by Ukrainian radars and air defense units.

RT LIVE

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km8KY2t_WWM
The Joint Investigation Team is presenting the first results of their criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine on July 17, 2014. The Boeing 777 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it came down. All 298 people on board, including 80 children and 15 crewmembers, were killed.

macyk said:

RT LIVE

_https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km8KY2t_WWM
The Joint Investigation Team is presenting the first results of their criminal investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over Ukraine on July 17, 2014. The Boeing 777 was en route to Kuala Lumpur from Amsterdam when it came down. All 298 people on board, including 80 children and 15 crewmembers, were killed.

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And the American Press is falling all-over-itself - blaming Russia! Absent of the data from an independent investigation by Russia explaining otherwise. Plus, Ukraine Military Officials are holding back vital Radar information.

Dutch probe: Malaysian jet downed by launcher from Russia
https://www.yahoo.com/news/dutch-investigators-results-mh17-criminal-probe-084038929.html

Dutch-led criminal investigators said Wednesday they have solid evidence that a Malaysian jet was shot down by a Buk missile moved into eastern Ukraine from Russia.

Wilbert Paulissen, head of the Central Crime Investigation department of the Dutch National Police, said communications intercepts showed that pro-Moscow rebels had called for deployment of the mobile surface-to-air weapon, and reported its arrival in rebel-controlled areas of eastern Ukraine.

From that and other evidence collected by the Joint Investigation Team, "it may be concluded MH17 was shot down by a 9M38 missile launched by a Buk, brought in from the territory of the Russian Federation, and that after launch was subsequently returned to the Russian Federation," Paulissen told a news conference.

The conclusions were billed as results of a two-year Dutch-led criminal probe of the disaster that claimed 298 lives.

A separate investigation by Dutch safety officials last year concluded that the Amsterdam-to-Kuala Lumpur flight was downed by a Buk missile fired from territory held by pro-Russian rebels.

Dutch police spokesman Thomas Aling said the joint investigation findings differ in that they are designed to be solid enough to be used as evidence in a criminal trial. Where and when a trial might take place is still to be determined, Aling said.

Russia has consistently denied allegations that pro-Moscow rebels in eastern Ukraine were responsible. On Monday, the Russian military said it has new radio-location data that show the missile that downed the Boeing 777 did not originate from rebel-controlled territory, and said it would turn the data over to investigators.

Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov reiterated that assertion on Wednesday ahead of the Dutch report.

"If there was a rocket it could only have been launched from a different area," he told reporters, referring to Russian radar data. "You can't argue with it, it can't be discussed."

In the Joint Investigation Team, Dutch police and judicial officials have been working with counterparts from Australia, Belgium, Malaysia and Ukraine, seeking to gather the best possible evidence for use in prosecution of the perpetrators.

They have faced extraordinary challenges: the crime scene in Ukraine's eastern Donetsk oblast where the plane crashed on July 17, 2014, killing all aboard, was located in an active war zone, and during the days following the crash pro-Kremlin militants limited access to the site.

Eleven containers crammed with debris from the jetliner were ultimately brought to the Netherlands. A research team took soil samples in eastern Ukraine and established the location of cellphone towers and the layout of the local telephone network.

Forensic samples were taken from passengers' and crew members' bodies and luggage, and satellite data and communications intercepts were scrutinized. The team also appealed for information from witnesses who may have seen the missile launch.

About two-thirds of the passengers aboard MH17 were Dutch nationals; the crew members were Malaysians. Malaysia proposed setting up an international tribunal to try those responsible for the plane's destruction, but Russia vetoed a U.N. Security Council resolution in favor of a tribunal.

Thanks macyk and angelburst29 for your contributions.

The following links add to the above:

http://www.dutchnews.nl/news/archives/2016/09/mh17-was-brought-down-by-missile-fired-from-russia-investigators/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/jit-mh17-shot-down-by-a-9m38-buk-missile-from-russian-origin/
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/sep/28/flight-mh17-shot-down-by-missile-brought-in-from-russia-ukraine-malaysia-airlines
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/09/28/mh17-investigation-prosecutors-to-reveal-where-missile-that-down/
http://www.newscenter1.tv/story/33269470/the-latest-us-backs-report-that-russian-missile-downed-mh17

https://www.sott.net/article/329520-Almaz-Antey-press-conference-JIT-report-ignored-technical-details-which-showed-missile-was-fired-from-Kiev-controlled-area
http://home.myhughesnet.com/news/read/category/Business/article/the_associated_press-the_latest_russia_calls_probe_into_mh17_downing_bi-ap
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/wires/ap/article-3811938/The-Latest-Russia-calls-probe-MH17-downing-biased.html
http://www.news-sentinel.com/news/us-and-world/The-Latest--Russian-missile-maker-disputes-Dutch-MH17-probe

There are loads more to have via google as it's a hot topic at the moment.

As I'm just too late to edit my previous post, for archiving purposes the following additions:

https://www.sott.net/article/329522-Russian-Foreign-Ministry-MH17-investigators-allowed-Ukraine-to-fabricate-evidence-and-denied-Moscow-role-in-inquiry
https://www.sott.net/article/329535-Russian-Ministry-of-Defense-MH17-probe-relied-on-data-only-provided-by-Ukrainian-military-and-the-internet

http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/russia-demands-complete-transparent-investigation-mh17-downing/

http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/mh17-investigation-first-results-released-afternoon/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/report-mh17-was-shot-down-by-russian-buk-missile/
http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/jit-100-persons-interest-mh17-downing/

http://www.nltimes.nl/2016/09/28/dutch-parliament-wants-quick-debate-mh17-investigation-results/

The following website presents the official summary in English of yesterday's JIT press conference: https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-crash/@96068/jit-flight-mh17-shot/

Press release in full (English): https://www.om.nl/onderwerpen/mh17-vliegramp/presentaties/presentation-joint/

Press release in Russian (PDF-file, 199 KB): https://www.om.nl/publish/pages/51221/press_release_in_russian_28-09-2016.pdf

Meanwhile a YT video from July 17,2014 has surfaced in which Hillary Clinton (private citizen at that particular time) speaks about the MH-17 crash, who probably did it and what to do next (4.53 mins):

YouTube said:

Published on July 17, 2014

The former Secretary of State tells Charlie Rose that the suspected shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines jet causes a "great deal of concern" not only over the loss of life, but over "the continued conflict in Ukraine, and the role Russia is playing."

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https://youtu.be/nkTRJgDkNFg

YouTube said:

Emmy award winning journalist Charlie Rose has been praised as "one of America's premier interviewers." He is the host of Charlie Rose, the nightly PBS program that engages America's best thinkers, writers, politicians, athletes, entertainers, business leaders, scientists and other newsmakers. USA Today calls Charlie Rose, "TV's most addictive talk show." New York Newsday says, "Charlie's show is the place to get engaging, literate conversation... Bluntly, he is the best interviewer around today."

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