truth seeker
The Living Force
Indeed. Thanks oby. :)Martina said:
Gurdjieff's 5 Being Strivings
- Thread starter obyvatel
- Start date
obyvatel
The Living Force
Recently, while trying to explain what purpose a house fly serves in ecological terms, I got asked an innocent question - "what purpose do humans serve?" This is a deep question. Gurdjieff tackles this question in Beelzebub's Tales, and so far, his thesis is the most compelling one I have encountered on this question. The question ties in intimately to the third and fourth strivings being discussed here.
[quote author=Beelzebub's Tales]
'In all probability there exists in the world some law of the reciprocal maintenance of everything existing.
" 'Obviously our lives also serve for maintaining something great or small in the world.
[/quote]
What does "reciprocal maintenance of everything existing" mean?
John Bennett writes in Gurdjieff: Making a New World
[quote author=Bennett]
Reciprocal maintenance in its special sense connotes that the universe has a built-in structure or pattern whereby every class of existing things produces energies or substances that are required for maintaining the existence of other classes.
[/quote]
G had introduced this concept briefly in ISOTM
[quote author=ISOTM]
The other classification of which I shall now speak leads us far beyond the limits of what we call 'living beings' both upwards, higher than living beings, as well as downwards, lower than living beings, and it deals not with individuals but with classes in a very wide sense. Above all this classification shows that there are no jumps whatever in nature. In nature everything is connected and everything is alive. The diagram of this classification is called the 'Diagram of Everything Living.'
"According to this diagram every kind of creature, every degree of being, is defined by what serves as food for this kind of creature or being of a given level and for what they themselves serve as food, because in the cosmic order each class of creature feeds on a definite class of lower creature and is food for a definite class of higher creatures."
[/quote]
For those interested, ISOTM Chapter 16 has some details.
Back to Bennett
[quote author=Bennett]
Gurdjieff uses the terms ‘involution’ and ‘evolution’ to describe the process. Involution is the transformation process in which a high-level energy acts on lower energies through an apparatus which provides the necessary environment and conditions. The human body is such an apparatus and so is any other living organism. The earth also provides an environment for high level energy – such as solar radiation – to act upon the more passive elements of the earth’s crust and atmosphere . Involution is entropic, that is to say the overall level of energy is always lowered in all involutionary changes.
Evolution is the reverse process. It is the production of high-level energy from a lower level source. This also requires an apparatus, but of a different kind, for the ‘up-grading’ of energy is improbable and cannot occur at all unless some high-level energy is present. Life is an evolutionary process that goes against the direction of probability. The work by which man is transformed is also evolutionary. It goes against the stream of life.
[/quote]
Humans have the potential for evolution - or upgrading of energy. We are nourished by plants and animals and the earth. We should also be producing a quality of energy which would nourish and support some higher purpose. This would be "paying for our arising". If we are able to do this, then we can participate consciously in the maintaining cosmic equilibrium. If we are not able to produce the higher energies through our conscious efforts, then also we play our part in the cosmos - but in a different way. Our position in the latter case is quite similar to animals - and we become what G referred to as "food for the moon". Charles Fort had commented that we (humans) are "property" of other classes of beings. So we exist as in a farm - hyperdimensional high tech farm - but farm nonetheless. It is not injustice but a consequence of an universal law.
The "sting" of the law of reciprocal maintenance comes from including humans and above in the equation rather than stopping at the earth, flora and fauna - as studies in ecology have established. Bennett writes
[quote author=Bennett]
Gurdjieff developed this theme by asserting that man, like every living or non-living thing, is an ‘apparatus for the transformation of energy’ and that he is specifically required to produce sensitive and conscious energy needed for maintaining the harmony of the solar system. He can produce this energy voluntarily , or involuntarily . The first way is by ‘work on oneself’, that is, by striving for self-perfection . The second way is by dying.
[/quote]
In G's view, wars or "periods of reciprocal destruction" arise out of the requirement to fulfill energetic requirements. We are unable to pay for our arising consciously, so we pay in a different traumatic way. We can look at natural cataclysms, epidemics etc in a similar vein. Psychopathology may well be an agent rather than the real cause for human misfortunes.
In our efforts to change, we are confronted by the twin problems of our egoism/vanity and ignorance. Egoism is pretty clear; ignorance comes from a lack of awareness of the law of reciprocal maintenance as well as "simple" understandings about what we can become and what we can give . Consequently, our lives are focused on our "rights" - what we deserve, rather than our "responsibilities" - what we are obliged to give.
[quote author=Beelzebub's Tales]
'In all probability there exists in the world some law of the reciprocal maintenance of everything existing.
" 'Obviously our lives also serve for maintaining something great or small in the world.
[/quote]
What does "reciprocal maintenance of everything existing" mean?
John Bennett writes in Gurdjieff: Making a New World
[quote author=Bennett]
Reciprocal maintenance in its special sense connotes that the universe has a built-in structure or pattern whereby every class of existing things produces energies or substances that are required for maintaining the existence of other classes.
[/quote]
G had introduced this concept briefly in ISOTM
[quote author=ISOTM]
The other classification of which I shall now speak leads us far beyond the limits of what we call 'living beings' both upwards, higher than living beings, as well as downwards, lower than living beings, and it deals not with individuals but with classes in a very wide sense. Above all this classification shows that there are no jumps whatever in nature. In nature everything is connected and everything is alive. The diagram of this classification is called the 'Diagram of Everything Living.'
"According to this diagram every kind of creature, every degree of being, is defined by what serves as food for this kind of creature or being of a given level and for what they themselves serve as food, because in the cosmic order each class of creature feeds on a definite class of lower creature and is food for a definite class of higher creatures."
[/quote]
For those interested, ISOTM Chapter 16 has some details.
Back to Bennett
[quote author=Bennett]
Gurdjieff uses the terms ‘involution’ and ‘evolution’ to describe the process. Involution is the transformation process in which a high-level energy acts on lower energies through an apparatus which provides the necessary environment and conditions. The human body is such an apparatus and so is any other living organism. The earth also provides an environment for high level energy – such as solar radiation – to act upon the more passive elements of the earth’s crust and atmosphere . Involution is entropic, that is to say the overall level of energy is always lowered in all involutionary changes.
Evolution is the reverse process. It is the production of high-level energy from a lower level source. This also requires an apparatus, but of a different kind, for the ‘up-grading’ of energy is improbable and cannot occur at all unless some high-level energy is present. Life is an evolutionary process that goes against the direction of probability. The work by which man is transformed is also evolutionary. It goes against the stream of life.
[/quote]
Humans have the potential for evolution - or upgrading of energy. We are nourished by plants and animals and the earth. We should also be producing a quality of energy which would nourish and support some higher purpose. This would be "paying for our arising". If we are able to do this, then we can participate consciously in the maintaining cosmic equilibrium. If we are not able to produce the higher energies through our conscious efforts, then also we play our part in the cosmos - but in a different way. Our position in the latter case is quite similar to animals - and we become what G referred to as "food for the moon". Charles Fort had commented that we (humans) are "property" of other classes of beings. So we exist as in a farm - hyperdimensional high tech farm - but farm nonetheless. It is not injustice but a consequence of an universal law.
The "sting" of the law of reciprocal maintenance comes from including humans and above in the equation rather than stopping at the earth, flora and fauna - as studies in ecology have established. Bennett writes
[quote author=Bennett]
Gurdjieff developed this theme by asserting that man, like every living or non-living thing, is an ‘apparatus for the transformation of energy’ and that he is specifically required to produce sensitive and conscious energy needed for maintaining the harmony of the solar system. He can produce this energy voluntarily , or involuntarily . The first way is by ‘work on oneself’, that is, by striving for self-perfection . The second way is by dying.
[/quote]
In G's view, wars or "periods of reciprocal destruction" arise out of the requirement to fulfill energetic requirements. We are unable to pay for our arising consciously, so we pay in a different traumatic way. We can look at natural cataclysms, epidemics etc in a similar vein. Psychopathology may well be an agent rather than the real cause for human misfortunes.
In our efforts to change, we are confronted by the twin problems of our egoism/vanity and ignorance. Egoism is pretty clear; ignorance comes from a lack of awareness of the law of reciprocal maintenance as well as "simple" understandings about what we can become and what we can give . Consequently, our lives are focused on our "rights" - what we deserve, rather than our "responsibilities" - what we are obliged to give.
edgitarra
Jedi Council Member
What does "reciprocal maintenance of everything existing" mean? [/quote]
I was thinking about the G's octaves and information theory in this case. Reciprocal maintenance of everything existing can represent the whole learning processes of everything contained in the Universe, and the Universe itself. If the C's said that they are us in the future, try to think about densities in terms of octaves and knowledge. God needs us as much as we need him.
obyvatel
The Living Force
In the chapter titled "Becoming Aware of Genuine Being Duty" in Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson, Hassein, Beelzebub's grandson, has the following realization
[quote author=BT]
"Only now have I come to understand clearly that everything we have and use today, all the contemporary amenities and everything necessary for our comfort and welfare, did not always exist, nor did they make their appearance so easily.
"It seems that in the past certain beings must have labored hard and suffered very much for all this, and endured a great deal that perhaps they could have spared themselves They labored and suffered solely that we might have these advantages today and use them for our welfare.
"And all this, consciously or unconsciously, they did for us—beings quite unknown and entirely indifferent to them.
"And now not only do we not thank them, but we do not even know anything about them, and take it all as a matter of course, and neither ponder this question nor trouble ourselves in the slightest about it.
"I, for instance, have already existed so many years in the Universe, yet the thought has never entered my head that perhaps there was a time when everything I see and have did not exist, and that everything was not born with me like my nose.
"And so, my dear and kind Grandfather, since your conversation with the captain has gradually made me aware of all this with the whole of my presence, the need has arisen in me to make clear to my Reason why I personally have these advantages, and what obligations I am under on their account.
[/quote]
This is an accurate description of reality. As I write this post on my computer, I am using technology that was created and refined through trial and error of innumerable human beings from conception to design to manufacturing to testing to distribution and retailing. The books that impart the knowledge we collect and discuss have been collected, refined and distributed by human beings of multiple generations going back to antiquity. The chair on which I sit, the house that shelters me - everything has come about through the labors - conscious or unconscious - of people I do not know or acknowledge.
I can say "yes, but I bought these things with my money. But if I reflect on the "my money" aspect of it, how did I earn the money? I was not born with the skillset which helps provide for my living as an adult. That skill set was taught to me by others building on the foundation of basic education which also came about through others - teachers, parents, colleagues, supervisors etc.
The point is that an honest reflection shows clearly that our lives are not as "self-made" as we tend to believe. It stands on the foundation laid by countless others - some known to us but most not known. We talk about ponerization of society, how we have been harmed by our narcissistic parents and the education system - and that perspective is valid as well. However, the malignant egoism that affects modern society tends to ignore the basic contributions others have made to give us the life we have today. "Waking up to reality" as much involves seeing the ponerization as it does acknowledging the debt we owe to reality for our very existence. One without the other is lopsided.
Acknowledging our debts to reality - which then brings up the prospect of the being striving of "paying for our arising" - is not some abstract philosophy, metaphysics or even esotericism. It is simple observation and reflection on reality. The idea is not to arouse overwhelming gratitude or overwhelming guilt - but accepting the state of affairs as "what is". If done regularly in the midst of life - working on the computer or washing dishes or folding clothes or driving a car or doing gardening - this can help in combating the malignant egoism or narcissism that afflicts us in modern society. We work simply because we owe a debt - it is a duty to do so. Does not matter whether we like it or have enough self-esteem to do it - just needs to be done to the best of our ability.
Again, the idea is not to get overboard and obsessed or depressed with this - doing so serves no one, neither self or others. On the contrary, I think this has the potential to increase our attention, our awareness and freedom from self-love. I would also speculate that such an attitude is "religious" in the true sense of the term (ligare - to connect), connecting us to life and reality in the right way, without requiring the trappings and dogmas which affect the religions of the day.
[quote author=BT]
"Only now have I come to understand clearly that everything we have and use today, all the contemporary amenities and everything necessary for our comfort and welfare, did not always exist, nor did they make their appearance so easily.
"It seems that in the past certain beings must have labored hard and suffered very much for all this, and endured a great deal that perhaps they could have spared themselves They labored and suffered solely that we might have these advantages today and use them for our welfare.
"And all this, consciously or unconsciously, they did for us—beings quite unknown and entirely indifferent to them.
"And now not only do we not thank them, but we do not even know anything about them, and take it all as a matter of course, and neither ponder this question nor trouble ourselves in the slightest about it.
"I, for instance, have already existed so many years in the Universe, yet the thought has never entered my head that perhaps there was a time when everything I see and have did not exist, and that everything was not born with me like my nose.
"And so, my dear and kind Grandfather, since your conversation with the captain has gradually made me aware of all this with the whole of my presence, the need has arisen in me to make clear to my Reason why I personally have these advantages, and what obligations I am under on their account.
[/quote]
This is an accurate description of reality. As I write this post on my computer, I am using technology that was created and refined through trial and error of innumerable human beings from conception to design to manufacturing to testing to distribution and retailing. The books that impart the knowledge we collect and discuss have been collected, refined and distributed by human beings of multiple generations going back to antiquity. The chair on which I sit, the house that shelters me - everything has come about through the labors - conscious or unconscious - of people I do not know or acknowledge.
I can say "yes, but I bought these things with my money. But if I reflect on the "my money" aspect of it, how did I earn the money? I was not born with the skillset which helps provide for my living as an adult. That skill set was taught to me by others building on the foundation of basic education which also came about through others - teachers, parents, colleagues, supervisors etc.
The point is that an honest reflection shows clearly that our lives are not as "self-made" as we tend to believe. It stands on the foundation laid by countless others - some known to us but most not known. We talk about ponerization of society, how we have been harmed by our narcissistic parents and the education system - and that perspective is valid as well. However, the malignant egoism that affects modern society tends to ignore the basic contributions others have made to give us the life we have today. "Waking up to reality" as much involves seeing the ponerization as it does acknowledging the debt we owe to reality for our very existence. One without the other is lopsided.
Acknowledging our debts to reality - which then brings up the prospect of the being striving of "paying for our arising" - is not some abstract philosophy, metaphysics or even esotericism. It is simple observation and reflection on reality. The idea is not to arouse overwhelming gratitude or overwhelming guilt - but accepting the state of affairs as "what is". If done regularly in the midst of life - working on the computer or washing dishes or folding clothes or driving a car or doing gardening - this can help in combating the malignant egoism or narcissism that afflicts us in modern society. We work simply because we owe a debt - it is a duty to do so. Does not matter whether we like it or have enough self-esteem to do it - just needs to be done to the best of our ability.
Again, the idea is not to get overboard and obsessed or depressed with this - doing so serves no one, neither self or others. On the contrary, I think this has the potential to increase our attention, our awareness and freedom from self-love. I would also speculate that such an attitude is "religious" in the true sense of the term (ligare - to connect), connecting us to life and reality in the right way, without requiring the trappings and dogmas which affect the religions of the day.
I haven't read the book aside from quotes and discussion around here, so a grain of salt is in order, but...
Regarding Obyvatel's most recent post, I am reminded of the quote in Mariama's signature:
Guilty as charged. I think it might have to do in part with how the forum atmosphere has changed with time. There seems to be a greater sense of safety now, so maybe this could change. Fear of Anart-style feedback was (is?) a source of posting anxiety for a long time for me due to PCS issues - fear, shame, self-doubt, black-white thinking, the whole gamut. I'm not disowning my problems. It's hard to post when you fear your every revelation might get you tossed out the door - but, I should add that it is worth the struggle.obyvatel said:
Regarding Obyvatel's most recent post, I am reminded of the quote in Mariama's signature:
obyvatel said:
This is an accurate description of reality. As I write this post on my computer, I am using technology that was created and refined through trial and error of innumerable human beings from conception to design to manufacturing to testing to distribution and retailing. The books that impart the knowledge we collect and discuss have been collected, refined and distributed by human beings of multiple generations going back to antiquity. The chair on which I sit, the house that shelters me - everything has come about through the labors - conscious or unconscious - of people I do not know or acknowledge.
I can say "yes, but I bought these things with my money. But if I reflect on the "my money" aspect of it, how did I earn the money? I was not born with the skillset which helps provide for my living as an adult. That skill set was taught to me by others building on the foundation of basic education which also came about through others - teachers, parents, colleagues, supervisors etc.
The point is that an honest reflection shows clearly that our lives are not as "self-made" as we tend to believe. It stands on the foundation laid by countless others - some known to us but most not known. We talk about ponerization of society, how we have been harmed by our narcissistic parents and the education system - and that perspective is valid as well. However, the malignant egoism that affects modern society tends to ignore the basic contributions others have made to give us the life we have today. "Waking up to reality" as much involves seeing the ponerization as it does acknowledging the debt we owe to reality for our very existence. One without the other is lopsided.
Acknowledging our debts to reality - which then brings up the prospect of the being striving of "paying for our arising" - is not some abstract philosophy, metaphysics or even esotericism. It is simple observation and reflection on reality. The idea is not to arouse overwhelming gratitude or overwhelming guilt - but accepting the state of affairs as "what is". If done regularly in the midst of life - working on the computer or washing dishes or folding clothes or driving a car or doing gardening - this can help in combating the malignant egoism or narcissism that afflicts us in modern society. We work simply because we owe a debt - it is a duty to do so. Does not matter whether we like it or have enough self-esteem to do it - just needs to be done to the best of our ability.
Again, the idea is not to get overboard and obsessed or depressed with this - doing so serves no one, neither self or others. On the contrary, I think this has the potential to increase our attention, our awareness and freedom from self-love. I would also speculate that such an attitude is "religious" in the true sense of the term (ligare - to connect), connecting us to life and reality in the right way, without requiring the trappings and dogmas which affect the religions of the day.
[/quote]
Really great insight. Thanks for sharing and putting it so well. I will redouble my efforts to remember and think about these things as often as possible. We really do need to "pay for our arising."