Surface knowledge v's Inner knowledge.

Some thoughts I've been having. Feel free to comment.

As the title of the post states, I believe that there is a big difference between knowing something 'intellectually', and knowing the same thing at a deeper 'inner core'(soul?) level.

As we all know, attaining knowledge helps an STO candidate increase their personal critical mass - however, this increase in critical mass occurs when a piece of knowledge absorbed at the mental level triggers an inner realisation at a much deeper level of your being. It's this inner realisation that is key to true understanding & growth. Without this, the information remains at the level of the intellect until such time as one is ready to understand it at a deeper level.
It simply stays as what I call 'surface knowledge'.

I don't think that this 'inner' realisation/understanding of information can be something you can force to happen, it simply happens when a person is at a level whereby the information resonates with them at that point in their journey. It is true to say that you can aid this process along a little by immersing yourself in the correct literature, and using the 4th way techniques outlined throughout this site. But it is also equally true to say that a person may hold a substantial STO candidate critical mass and have never read a page of Gurdjieff,Castaneda or The Wave in their life. Having a strong orientation towards STO is something that is chosen at a soul level.

So therefore, 'Surface knowledge' is knowledge which is understood only at the intellectual level, and can be used to dazzle your friends and amaze the masses. But 'Inner knowledge' is an understanding in the core of your being which adds to your overall growth as an STO candidate.

The point I'm making here is that i think sometimes we put too much importance on whether someone has simply read the material, and less on whether that person has a strong STO drive towards increasing their individual critical mass.
I believe the important thing isn't to know all the principles - it's to have the DRIVE to 'know' all the principles.

I'd say dont worry if you don't understand certain things, just keep immersing yourself in the information and one day that inner realisation will come.


And remember, even a psychopath could come in here and quote Gurdjieff. ;)

My current understanding goes something like this. You collect information (because it interests you), but until you have applied it, it doesn't become knowledge, and certainly not understanding. We can know many things and not understand them at a deep level, as you said. But the 4th Way also posits that understanding is a function of Being. You cannot understand more if your level of Being doesn't increase. It's like a cup that can only hold a certain amount and if you try to pour more into it what was there will spill out and the quantity will stay the same.

So, between knowledge and understanding, the crucial thing is level of Being (being more consistent and conscious, rather than mechanical and different little "I's" being launched accidentally; also balancing the three centers for each to do what it does best). Without applying the Work methods, even regular knowledge, leaving out true understanding, works the same way as the cup analogy. We forget what we learned earlier to make room for "new knowledge" - in other words, we acquire new knowledge, but can become ignorant in other areas (that we may have acquired knowledge about earlier), making the overall knowledge about the same. But it does seem whatever we learn, essence remembers even if false personality forgets. So yeah, it's a deep down thing, as you laid out, even if presently we can't access certain things consciously, if we go through certain experiences and apply Work techniques consistently, we may access them later.

Everybody can probably think of things they knew for a long time, but didn't really understand until years later, including more common knowledge and esoteric ideas. When understanding increases, and many more connections can be made from different "pieces" of knowledge, it would seem to me that would be a sign that something about Being has changed. Or so I think.

Nicely put. I love the cup analogy too.

In fact, my knowledge of the Cup Analogy is a case in point. Up until now it was merely a piece of information i'd tucked away as something to be digested later.
Any now its just clicked into place nicely.

SeekinTruth said:

Everybody can probably think of things they knew for a long time, but didn't really understand until years later, including more common knowledge and esoteric ideas. When understanding increases, and many more connections can be made from different "pieces" of knowledge, it would seem to me that would be a sign that something about Being has changed. Or so I think.

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Indeed. Nicely put.

obyvatel said:

SeekinTruth said:

Everybody can probably think of things they knew for a long time, but didn't really understand until years later, including more common knowledge and esoteric ideas. When understanding increases, and many more connections can be made from different "pieces" of knowledge, it would seem to me that would be a sign that something about Being has changed. Or so I think.

Click to expand...

Indeed. Nicely put.

Click to expand...

One thing that I have noticed is that the 'Being-Aha!' realizations/understandings are accompanied by an inner feeling of 'electrical charge', or 'magnetic charge', or rather, an energy of sorts for which I don't have a definitive label, being stored away in the solar plexus. Perhaps Mi6 or Sol6 a la ISOTM? I think this is one aspect of the following passage in BTs

Beelzebub's Tales to his Grandson p. 142 said:

[...]For the further clarification of the phenomena taking place in the atmospheres and concerning the 'Omnipresent-Active-Element' in general, you must know and remember this also, that during the periods when, owing to the sacred process 'Aieioiuoa,' 'Djartklom' proceeds in the Okidanokh, then there is temporarily released from it the proportion of pure--that is, absolutely unblended--Etherokrilno which unfailingly enters into all cosmic formations and there serves, as it were, for connecting all the active elements of these formations; and afterwards when it's three fundamental parts reblend, then the said proportion of Etherokrilno is re-established.[...]

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Kris

So therefore, 'Surface knowledge' is knowledge which is understood only at the intellectual level, and can be used to dazzle your friends and amaze the masses. But 'Inner knowledge' is an understanding in the core of your being which adds to your overall growth as an STO candidate.

The point I'm making here is that i think sometimes we put too much importance on whether someone has simply read the material, and less on whether that person has a strong STO drive towards increasing their individual critical mass.
I believe the important thing isn't to know all the principles - it's to have the DRIVE to 'know' all the principles.

I'd say dont worry if you don't understand certain things, just keep immersing yourself in the information and one day that inner realisation will come.

Click to expand...

I like what you write and idealistically yes you are right; Being/inner knowledge is stronger than simply intellectual knowledge and it would be best if everyone who read the material could be affected by the information in a such a way that their being/inner knowledge advances/grows. However this is not reality/the way it works and you you need both intellectual and emotional/inner knowledge. I believe most of the time the intellectual understanding of the material comes first and the emotional/being understanding comes at a later date or sometimes one already knows something at their core then they come across the information and say "ah ha yes that's it" as they are reading the material.

Now getting at the bolded paragraph. People on the forum can only put an importance on things they can measure over the computer. Not everyone has met in person or knows eachother well. So its very hard to tell if someone has a strong ""STO" drive towards increasing their individual critical mass" over the computer. However what is easier to measure is if someone has put in the time to read the material and learn the lingo this way at least the people on the forum know that their intellectual level of knowledge is up to par and are on the same level as far as communication is concerned. In a sense thats all that forum members who don't know eachother can measure IMO. Have you read information or understand what is called the magnetic center? If you haven't then I believe your being/emotional/feeling center knows what it is but your intellectual center doesn't ;)

and on a side note your title of this post says Surface knowledge VS Inner knowledge. VS says to me that they are in competition or trying to beat/be better then the thing your are Versing like in an athletic event. I understand that this is a small point to make however in thinking about Surface knowledge and inner Knowledge I believe its best to think of the two as complimenting each other working together not in opposition. If one is behind then its important to hypothetical lend a hand to bring it up to the others level.

Another way to think about this question, or what separates a surface knowledge from an inner knowledge is the extent to which we act on any knowledge - all the while paying attention to how and why we go about acting on it. Is it really an inner knowledge if it doesn't motivate us or somehow be a catalyst to reflect our understanding in the things that we choose to Do? This can show up in a number of different ways of course: doing EE regularly, going ketogenic, sharing knowledge with those asking for help and advice here, among others.

While we can only work with what we have (ie. surface knowledge, time, resources, energy, current level of being, etc.) and start from the very basics of being a a good obyvatel, I think this work beckons us to assimilate what we know - enough to take whatever the next step is for each of us in the form of greater kinds of Doing. Reaching that 'personal critical mass' as you say electrosonic, speaks to this I think.

An enlightened being is just an enlightened being. It just means that someone has knowledge of something, not that they are necessarily exercising that knowledge in an STO way - and amounts to surface knowledge imo. This reminds me of a recent session in which the subject of 'awakened conscience' was raised and what that means in the context of what we're doing here. The point being made was that feeling responsible for a widening of the sharing of knowledge and taking some action on it, was key to taking the next step. Not only for an individual but for the whole group here, and for the many people who have yet to become a part of what is being done here and benefit from it. The whole being greater than the sum of it's parts, in other words. This is where a group critical mass, via the growth of each person here, is what is needed to make the macro-impact we are working towards.

I guess this begs the question of how an awakened conscience comes to be in a person participating here. Does a person 'fake it until they make it' by doing the things that "demonstrate" an awakened conscience and work towards awakening it further - even if that feeling of responsibility isn't particularly strong? Maybe. Maybe there is something in the Doing of things in the way of sharing knowledge that reinforces what we have learned about our reality, and even strengthens it. It was also said that the Doing of things in this direction not only helps create a vacuum for even greater Doing and raising the level of one's being (I'm paraphrasing), but helps us to unblock ourselves, and to create an energetic balance in response to what we've been given here.