carpal tunnel syndrome (or sleepy hands)

davey72

The Living Force
I noticed there is some scattered info regarding carpal tunnel syndrome on the forum but not much which is why i wanted to start this thread. I have experienced this in the past but it always goes away in time if i stop the type of work that brought it on. I have the symptoms that are associated with cts in my right hand. That being numb,falling asleep, pins and needles, and even extreme pain at times. Is this automatically cts? Does anyone know what can be done aboutt it iespecially if one is still doing the type of work that brought it on?
 
CTS like symptoms can also come as a result from problems in the spine, upper/lower back, neck, posture etc. so it's not always easy even for specialists to determine the cause. I've had pain in my right arm for years, and after consulting several doctors and specialists - they still can't define the exact problem. One thing you might want to read about, is something called Thoracic outlet syndrome .

The only thing that has helped me in the end, has been treatments by a chiropractor. I highly recommend a chiropractor, if you can find a reliable and good one.
 
Well, I was just wondering about the same topic, as it happens.
I don't know how it is elsewhere but here (Belgium), carpal tunnel syndrome operations are all the rage. I know it's bizarre to say this, but it seems to be the case. I know about a dozen people who were operated on for this in the last years.

Doctors typically say it's from the hand being 'worn out' or tired by doing the same movement over and over again (typically, clicking your mouse all day long, supposedly). In the case of the people I know, their symptoms were all a bit different: pain in the hand, hand cramping, lack of strength in the hand and in one case simply frequently waking up at night (yeah, I'm still trying to understand that one). All these people immediately received an operation, no questions asked, no alternatives provided.

But what I don't understand is: aren't hands kinda meant to be used frequently? What qualifies as 'overuse'?
And more importantly, why do some people get CTS in the hand they don't mainly use (CTS on your right hand when you are a left-handed), then?

Because of all this, I was wondering if it was not sometimes a 'catch-all' syndrome for ailments doctors cannot find an answer to?
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Because of all this, I was wondering if it was not sometimes a 'catch-all' syndrome for ailments doctors cannot find an answer to?

You can count on that. As it happens, it has a cause and there is a surgical treatment. But quite a lot of people are having pains related to autoimmune imbalances among other things, and that is unknown territory for mainstream doctors despite its obviousness for normal folk. Thinking faculties about the most basic health issues are completely discouraged and thus, atrophied. In a ponerized society, well intentioned doctors end up recommending body mutilations instead of dietary and lifestyle changes. Quite a sign of the time.
 
Maybe magnesium oil can be helpful with this condition.
I have seen it listed as one of the conditions it is supposed to alleviate in a couple of sites about magnesium oil.
 
I thought I'd look up the definition and then dissect its clues based on all the other knowledge we have.

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpal_tunnel_syndrome
Carpal tunnel syndrome (CTS) is a median entrapment neuropathy that causes paresthesia, pain, numbness, and other symptoms in the distribution of the median nerve due to its compression at the wrist in the carpal tunnel. The mechanism is not completely understood but can be considered compression of the median nerve traveling through the carpal tunnel.[1]
{nerves should be able to handle compression, so we can perhaps assume there is an excess of compression (inflammation, tension) and/or a lack of repair/ability to handle ware from compression (stress, inflammation, nutrient deficiencies, myelin degradation etc)}
It appears to be caused by a combination of genetic and environmental factors. {this can be said of most conditions! it's important to consider Gabor Mates take on this - that of inherited stress}[2] Some of the predisposing factors include: diabetes, obesity {both of these cause excess ware and damage (stress), and as we know stem from standard western diets and stress and the resulting chronic inflammation}, pregnancy {stressful to the body/emotions and taxing on resources}, hypothyroidism, and heavy manual work or work with vibrating tools {excess ware, and taking a wider view manual work is usually associated with poorer incomes and more stress (both physical and mental) - pushing the body past the point of it saying 'no'}. There is, however, little clinical data to prove that lighter, repetitive tasks can cause carpal tunnel syndrome. Other disorders such as bursitis and tendinitis have been associated with repeated motions performed in the course of normal work or other activities.[3]

The main symptom of CTS is intermittent numbness of the thumb, index, long and radial half of the ring finger.[4] The numbness often occurs at night {adrenal fatigue could factor here, the body may be upping the cortisol to compensate for exhausted adrenals}, with the hypothesis that the wrists are held flexed during sleep.

_http://www.ergovancouver.net/Problems-Wrist.htm
FINAL_sleepingtwistedwrist%20copy%20small.jpg

The subject in this image is sleeping on their left hand, with the wrist flexed. The contents of the carpal tunnel are subjected to prolonged compression.

Don't know about anyone else, but the guy in the pictre looks stressed even though they are asleep. The position is one of placing stress on the body, and of 'sleeping through it'.
Having gone through stressful periods I know that unresolved stress can get expressed in the body during sleep. Peter Levines work on unresolved trauma (stress) and trapped body tension would fit here.

More from wiki
Recent literature suggests that sleep positioning, such as sleeping on one's side, might be an associated factor.[5] It can be relieved by wearing a wrist splint that prevents flexion.[6] Long-standing CTS leads to permanent nerve damage with constant numbness, atrophy of some of the muscles of the thenar eminence, and weakness of palmar abduction (see carpometacarpal joint § Movements).[7]{I'm reminded of the stories of ALS sufferers in Gabor MAtes books}

Pain in carpal tunnel syndrome is primarily numbness that is so intense that it wakes one from sleep. Pain in electrophysiologically verified CTS is associated with misinterpretation of nociception and depression.[8]{The pain will compound any stress!}

Conservative treatments include use of night splints and corticosteroid injection. {Gabor Mates example of asthma sufferers needing corticosteriod inhalers fits with the hypothesis that this is another manifestation of excess prolonged stress} The only scientifically established disease modifying treatment is surgery to cut the transverse carpal ligament.[9]

So diet and inflammation, chronic stress and (by the looks of the sleep position) body disconnect in responce to trauma/chronic stress (and probable chronic tension in the arms/shoulders as a result).
That would lead to lack of repair in the face of pushing the body too hard (and a possible genetic component here, that of not being able to myelinate nerve quickly) and from all the above appear to be the likely mechanisms involved, or so it seems.

The body is saying 'no' in it's own uniqe way.

*edit* for reference:
_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myelin
Myelin is a dielectric (electrically insulating) material that forms a layer, the myelin sheath, usually around only the axon of a neuron. It is essential for the proper functioning of the nervous system.
[..]
Demyelination
Further information: Demyelinating disease

Demyelination is the loss of the myelin sheath insulating the nerves, and is the hallmark of some neurodegenerative autoimmune diseases, including multiple sclerosis, acute disseminated encephalomyelitis, Neuromyelitis Optica, transverse myelitis, chronic inflammatory demyelinating polyneuropathy, Guillain-Barré syndrome, central pontine myelinosis, inherited demyelinating diseases such as leukodystrophy, and Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease. Sufferers of pernicious anaemia can also suffer nerve damage if the condition is not diagnosed quickly. Subacute combined degeneration of spinal cord secondary to pernicious anaemia can lead to slight peripheral nerve damage to severe damage to the central nervous system, affecting speech, balance, and cognitive awareness. When myelin degrades, conduction of signals along the nerve can be impaired or lost, and the nerve eventually withers.[clarification needed] A more serious case of myelin deterioration is called Canavan Disease.

The immune system may play a role in demyelination associated with such diseases, including inflammation causing demyelination by overproduction of cytokines via upregulation of tumor necrosis factor[7] or interferon.
Symptoms

Demyelination results in diverse symptoms determined by the functions of the affected neurons. It disrupts signals between the brain and other parts of the body; symptoms differ from patient to patient, and have different presentations upon clinical observation and in laboratory studies.

Typical symptoms include:

blurriness in the central visual field that affects only one eye, may be accompanied by pain upon eye movement
double vision
loss of vision/hearing
odd sensation in legs, arms, chest, or face, such as tingling or numbness (neuropathy)
weakness of arms or legs
cognitive disruption, including speech impairment and memory loss
heat sensitivity (symptoms worsen or reappear upon exposure to heat, such as a hot shower)
loss of dexterity
difficulty coordinating movement or balance disorder
difficulty controlling bowel movements or urination
fatigue

Myelin repair

Research to repair damaged myelin sheaths is ongoing. Techniques include surgically implanting oligodendrocyte precursor cells in the central nervous system and inducing myelin repair with certain antibodies. While results in mice have been encouraging (via stem cell transplantation), whether this technique can be effective in replacing myelin loss in humans is still unknown.[8] Cholinergic treatments, such as acetylcholinesterase inhibitors (AChEIs), may have beneficial effects on myelination, myelin repair, and myelin integrity. Increasing cholinergic stimulation also may act through subtle trophic effects on brain developmental processes and particularly on oligodendrocytes and the lifelong myelination process they support. By increasing oligodendrocyte cholinergic stimulation, AChEIs, and other cholinergic treatments, such as nicotine, possibly could promote myelination during development and myelin repair in older age.[9] Glycogen synthase kinase 3β inhibitors such as lithium chloride have been found to promote myelination in mice with damaged facial nerves. Cholesterol is a necessary nutrient for the myelin sheath.[10]
 
If the injury is related to computer use (keyboard & mouse), I have some experience that relates.

For me it was getting to the point where I was going to have to have surgery. In particular it was the mouse that was very painful to use, and I had even been wearing a brace on my wrist for several years.

A couple of years ago I switched to a Mac, and along with it I started using the Apple keyboard and the large trackpad that's available. Wow. I get very little strain now, and don't even use the brace anymore.

(I had serious doubts about the Apple keyboard at the beginning, I didn't think the chicklet style keyboard would be any good, but to be honest it's easily the best keyboard I've ever used.

And you can comfortably use the Apple keyboard on a PC, though I'm not sure about the trackpad...
 
I would caution against the Mac wireless keyboards, and especially the trackpad. If you use those, you are using bluetooth, and that is just as bad as Wi-Fi for your health. Totally eeeevil.
 
You may get some relief (whether it's officially carpal tunnel or not) through rolfing.

_http://www.carpal-tunnel-symptoms.com/rolfing-for-carpal-tunnel.html

Carpal tunnel and Rolfing

Rolfing has typically been used to correct poor posture, muscle tension and pain, especially in the neck, upper back and low back. However, some Rolfers are using it to treat cases of carpal tunnel syndrome and give some patients carpal tunnel pain relief. Remember your arms (upper extremities) are connected to your shoulders and neck. Poor posture in these areas over time may cause undo stress on your arms, elbows and wrists. Rolfing techniques may give you some carpal tunnel relief.

Like certain deep-massage methods, Rolfing for carpal tunnel usually causes some discomfort and pain when pressure is applied. Practitioners say this is a "reaction pain" that may be required when releasing tissue adhesions and correcting habitually poor posture or releasing adhesions around the median nerve and the carpal tunnel wrist area. Ultimately many patients enjoy carpal tunnel pain relief with this method, especially when done in conjunction with other non-surgical treatments.
 
Heimdallr said:
I would caution against the Mac wireless keyboards, and especially the trackpad. If you use those, you are using bluetooth, and that is just as bad as Wi-Fi for your health. Totally eeeevil.

Apple sells a wired keyboard, too ... but not the track pad.
 
nicklebleu said:
Apple sells a wired keyboard, too

Yes they do, but when you purchase one of their desktops, they only come with wireless keyboards. You have to purchase a wired one separately if you want to get away from Bluetooth. Same with the mouse.
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Well, I was just wondering about the same topic, as it happens.
I don't know how it is elsewhere but here (Belgium), carpal tunnel syndrome operations are all the rage. I know it's bizarre to say this, but it seems to be the case. I know about a dozen people who were operated on for this in the last years.

Doctors typically say it's from the hand being 'worn out' or tired by doing the same movement over and over again (typically, clicking your mouse all day long, supposedly). In the case of the people I know, their symptoms were all a bit different: pain in the hand, hand cramping, lack of strength in the hand and in one case simply frequently waking up at night (yeah, I'm still trying to understand that one). All these people immediately received an operation, no questions asked, no alternatives provided.

But what I don't understand is: aren't hands kinda meant to be used frequently? What qualifies as 'overuse'?
And more importantly, why do some people get CTS in the hand they don't mainly use (CTS on your right hand when you are a left-handed), then?

Because of all this, I was wondering if it was not sometimes a 'catch-all' syndrome for ailments doctors cannot find an answer to?
Agreed. It certainly isnt overuse in my case.dpending on what i am doing it can flare up within the first few days of a certain task. This time it started as a result of building a pole shed. It can then last fpr around a month before it will start to go away. I remember this also happening when i had telemarketing jobs as a kid. I would have my elbow on the desk for long periods and my hand would after a time start to randomly go numb. It seems to me that it is due to pinching or damaging a nerve.
 
Odyssey said:
You may get some relief (whether it's officially carpal tunnel or not) through rolfing.

_http://www.carpal-tunnel-symptoms.com/rolfing-for-carpal-tunnel.html

Carpal tunnel and Rolfing

Rolfing has typically been used to correct poor posture, muscle tension and pain, especially in the neck, upper back and low back. However, some Rolfers are using it to treat cases of carpal tunnel syndrome and give some patients carpal tunnel pain relief. Remember your arms (upper extremities) are connected to your shoulders and neck. Poor posture in these areas over time may cause undo stress on your arms, elbows and wrists. Rolfing techniques may give you some carpal tunnel relief.

Like certain deep-massage methods, Rolfing for carpal tunnel usually causes some discomfort and pain when pressure is applied. Practitioners say this is a "reaction pain" that may be required when releasing tissue adhesions and correcting habitually poor posture or releasing adhesions around the median nerve and the carpal tunnel wrist area. Ultimately many patients enjoy carpal tunnel pain relief with this method, especially when done in conjunction with other non-surgical treatments.
Odyssey said:
You may get some relief (whether it's officially carpal tunnel or not) through rolfing.

_http://www.carpal-tunnel-symptoms.com/rolfing-for-carpal-tunnel.html

Carpal tunnel and Rolfing

Rolfing has typically been used to correct poor posture, muscle tension and pain, especially in the neck, upper back and low back. However, some Rolfers are using it to treat cases of carpal tunnel syndrome and give some patients carpal tunnel pain relief. Remember your arms (upper extremities) are connected to your shoulders and neck. Poor posture in these areas over time may cause undo stress on your arms, elbows and wrists. Rolfing techniques may give you some carpal tunnel relief.

Like certain deep-massage methods, Rolfing for carpal tunnel usually causes some discomfort and pain when pressure is applied. Practitioners say this is a "reaction pain" that may be required when releasing tissue adhesions and correcting habitually poor posture or releasing adhesions around the median nerve and the carpal tunnel wrist area. Ultimately many patients enjoy carpal tunnel pain relief with this method, especially when done in conjunction with other non-surgical treatments.
I have seen some discussion before of rolfing but hadnt thought much about it as it seems it would be too expensive for me and that is if i could find a practitioner at all let alone one that is any good. Can it be done on oneself? The closest i came was meeting a doctor that did this when i was in a program called pure north synergy wherien i got free vitamins chelation blood work dentistry etc. All very cutting edge with medical doctors working alongside naturopathic ones. It was great bu i didnt understand they were really building a database of health research to become a leader in the medical industry and therefore end up making a lot of money. I think some of these doctors left after they saw the true motivations of the philanthropist that organized it. Ot is still a great thing but the average person now pays for it. Not sure why i went off on such a tangent but anyways back to my question. Can one learn rolfing without the help of another ?
 
You can do self massage on your hands and arms and maybe even learn some rolfing techniques and use them on the places on your body you can reach.

The thing about rolfing (from what has been explained to me) is that it is restructuring your entire body, so working on the areas you can reach without working on connecting areas that you can't reach won't give you the full effect. So for example, if you rolfed your own hands, wrists and arms you wouldn't really be able to effectively rolf your back, neck and shoulders and since all body systems are connected you wouldn't get the full effect.

That's why rolfers work on eachother.

However, I'm sure you could probably surf YouTube and find some demonstrations on self massage. It wouldn't hurt.
 
Odyssey said:
However, I'm sure you could probably surf YouTube and find some demonstrations on self massage. It wouldn't hurt.

There's a video here about Self accupressure for CTS as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0GtGmf6Z760

And if you type "carpal tunnel syndrome taping" on youtube, you can find some simple taping techniques that I think will help as well. Taping has helped me so much for lower back pain in the past, I can't recommend it enough. If your internet connection prevents you from watching videos, you can search the web and there are many sites and images describing the process and the material you will need. You could probably do it on your own (though difficult and awkward using one hand), but I think it is best if you have someone else apply the tape for you.

If you can't find the kinesio or sports tape (as is often called) you can use an elastic thickish kind of tape that the pharmacy has for first aid use. I used it before and it worked.
 
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