Reality and Imagination Flow In Opposite Directions in the Brain

Laura

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This study suggests some interesting things about doing "the work".

Neural circuits that activate when we daydream run in the opposite direction to how we process reality, a new study finds.

http://www.spring.org.uk/2014/12/reality-and-imagination-flow-in-opposite-directions-in-the-brain.php
 
Hmmm, I want one of those 'hats'!
During the day we are using the senses to take in information, processing the data and storing it. In much the same way as a computer does.
At night when we are dreaming, and I guess daydreaming is a similar analogy, the brain goes over the activities of the day, prioritizing memories, and 'defragging', and compressing the data.
You can do this with your computer, if you don't it will slow down and eventually stop, somewhat like someone with alzheimer's disease. It doesn't hurt to run a disk cleanup and an antivirus program every now and then to get rid of Trojans and other 'memes'.

Children have brains like sponges, they have tons of storage room and can easily retrieve data, because they don't have much in storage.
Older folk (like me) have a lot of 'stuff' in there, and it's a nightmare sometimes to just remember what I went into a room for.
I guess that's why sleep is important, so that our brains have time to catalogue everything, and index it all, so that our recall is facilitated.
Brains befuddled by alcohol or drugs, or incorrect diet and lack of sleep, just won't cut the mustard.
It's a pity I didn't recognise this earlier in life. The folly of youth.
They say 'Youth is wasted on the young'.
 
I was just thinking today how some people seem to be “dreamers” rather than “doers”. These people may have high ideals for improving society, and have a new-agey idea that they can, or that they actually are “dreaming” some future utopia into existence. On a practical level, they may not actually be “doing” much at all, and may not be very well grounded in “physical” existence, so e.g. they keep on losing things, burning food etc.
 
This study addresses a topic I've been wanting to understand for awhile now and have been searching for answers. Specifically what is the process in the brain/nervous system when a person is a long time practioner of guided meditation. This would be meditation that is complex in its imagery and requires the person to use their imagination to "set" the process. Perhaps neurological pathways are being formed by this repetition so the brain is being "trained". Physiological sensations are experienced during this process and visions often occur.

So, this process would not be the experiencing of reality which is the basis of "the work" and a whole different process is accruing in the brain. I suppose this type of meditation process could have its benefits depending on the individuals perspective. On the flip side it could be harmful and lead a person more prone to illusion.
 
SummerLite said:
So, this process would not be the experiencing of reality which is the basis of "the work" and a whole different process is accruing in the brain. I suppose this type of meditation process could have its benefits depending on the individuals perspective. On the flip side it could be harmful and lead a person more prone to illusion.
Emphasis added.

Hi SummerLite,

There is a difference between guided meditation and daydreaming. Daydreaming is a flow of aimless thoughts and/or wishful thinking, wasted energy. If you are actively and properly meditating, you are choosing to work on your self.

From the "Observing the mind" thread:
lainey said:
I find it helpful to be mindful not to try to clear all thoughts completely but to instead use a powerful seed thought such as the prayer of the soul. From the EE guide:
The meditation is performed with “seed”, which means it is neither
mindless nor without aim.
The seed, entitled “Prayer of the Soul”, has been carefully
composed to be unlimited in its application to life and to create a subconscious ground of
positive, life-affirming thoughts in your quieted mind. The prayer addresses the Divine
Cosmic Mind, which is existence in and of itself. If you wish to address the Divine Cosmic
Mind in terms more familiar such as Jesus, Buddha, Allah, Krishna etc. that is also fine.
Should a divine personification not be part of your outlook, you may even look to your own
“best self” as being addressed. The Prayer of the Soul is intended to be universally applicable
to all personal philosophies.
Emphasis added.

Hope this helps.
 
James Henry said:
There is a difference between guided meditation and daydreaming. Daydreaming is a flow of aimless thoughts and/or wishful thinking, wasted energy. If you are actively and properly meditating, you are choosing to work on your self.

I am not sure if it is true that daydreaming is only wasted energy.

The Virtues of Daydreaming

Humans are a daydreaming species. According to a recent study led by the Harvard psychologists Daniel Gilbert and Matthew A. Killingsworth, people let their minds wander forty-seven per cent of the time they are awake. (The scientists demonstrated this by developing an iPhone app that contacted twenty-two hundred and fifty volunteers at random intervals during the day.) In fact, the only activity during which we report that our minds are not constantly wandering is “love making.” We’re able to focus for that.

At first glance, such data seems like a confirmation of our inherent laziness. In a culture obsessed with efficiency, mind-wandering is often derided as useless—the kind of thinking we rely on when we don’t really want to think. Freud, for instance, described daydreams as “infantile” and a means of escaping from the necessary chores of the world into fantasies of “wish-fulfillment.”


In recent years, however, psychologists and neuroscientists have redeemed this mental state, revealing the ways in which mind-wandering is an essential cognitive tool. It turns out that whenever we are slightly bored—when reality isn’t quite enough for us—we begin exploring our own associations, contemplating counterfactuals and fictive scenarios that only exist within the head.

Virginia Woolf, in her novel “To The Lighthouse,” eloquently describes this form of thinking as it unfolds inside the mind of a character named Lily:

Certainly she was losing consciousness of outer things. And as she lost consciousness of outer things … her mind kept throwing up from its depths, scenes, and names, and sayings, and memories and ideas, like a fountain spurting.1
A daydream is that fountain spurting, spilling strange new thoughts into the stream of consciousness. And these spurts turn out to be surprisingly useful. A forthcoming paper in Psychological Science led by Benjamin Baird and Jonathan Schooler at the University of California at Santa Barbara helps explain why. The experiment itself was simple: a hundred and forty-five undergraduate students were given a standard test of creativity known as an “unusual use” task, in which they had two minutes to list as many uses as possible for mundane objects such as toothpicks, bricks, and clothes hangers.

Subjects were then randomly assigned to one of four different conditions. In three of those conditions, participants were given a twelve-minute break that entailed either: resting in a quiet room, performing a difficult short-term memory task, or doing something so boring that it would elicit mind-wandering. In a final control condition, participants were given no break at all. Finally, all subjects were given another round of creative tests, including the unusual-use tasks they had worked on only a few minutes before.2

Here’s where things get interesting: those students assigned to the boring task performed far better when asked to come up with additional uses for everyday items to which they had already been exposed. Given new items, all the groups did the same. Given repeated items, the daydreamers came up with forty-one per cent more possibilities than students in the other conditions.

What does this mean? Schooler argues that it’s clear evidence that those twelve minutes of daydreaming allowed the subjects to invent additional possibilities, as their unconscious minds pondered new ways to make use of toothpicks. This is why the effect was limited to those items that the subjects had previously been asked about—the question needed to marinate in the mind, “incubating” in those subterranean parts of the brain we can barely control.

On a more practical note, the scientists argue that their data show why “creative solutions may be facilitated specifically by simple external tasks that maximize mind-wandering.” The benefit of these simple tasks is that they consume just enough attention to keep us occupied, while leaving plenty of mental resources left over for errant daydreams. (When people are left alone, such as those subjects forced to sit by themselves, they tend to perseverate on their problems. Unfortunately, all this focus backfires.) Consider the ping-pong tables that now seem to exist in the lobby of every Silicon Valley startup. While it’s easy to dismiss such interior decorations as mere whimsy, the game turns out to be an ideal mind-wandering activity, at least when played casually. Another task that consistently leads to extended bouts of daydreaming is reading Tolstoy. In Schooler’s earlier work on mind-wandering, he gave subjects a boring passage from “War and Peace.” The undergraduates began zoning out within seconds.


Although Schooler has previously demonstrated a correlation between daydreaming and creativity—those who are more prone to mind-wandering tend to be better at generating new ideas, at least in the lab—this new paper shows that our daydreams seem to serve a similar function as night dreams, facilitating bursts of creative insight. Take a 2004 paper published in Nature by the neuroscientists Ullrich Wagner and Jan Born. The researchers gave a group of students a tedious task that involved transforming a long list of number strings into a new set of number strings. Wagner and Born designed the task so that there was an elegant shortcut, but it could only be uncovered if the subject had an insight about the problem. When people were left to their own devices, less than twenty per cent of them found the shortcut, even when given several hours to mull over the task. The act of dreaming, however, changed everything: after people were allowed to lapse into R.E.M. sleep, nearly sixty per cent of them discovered the secret pattern. Kierkegaard was right: sleeping is the height of genius.

If this all sounds like scientific justification for afternoon naps, long showers, and Russian literature, you’re right. “We always assume that you get more done when you’re consciously paying attention to a problem,” Schooler told me. “That’s what it means, after all, to be ‘working on something.’ But this is often a mistake. If you’re trying to solve a complex problem, then you need to give yourself a real break, to let the mind incubate the problem all by itself. We shouldn’t be so afraid to actually take some time off.”

Schooler has tried to apply this hypothesis to his own life. Although he used to take piles of work with him on vacation—he’d read papers and grant proposals on the beach—he now finds that he has better ideas when he lets himself really get away. “The good news is that there’s no reason to feel guilty when taking a break or not checking your e-mail,” he says. “Because it turns out that even when you’re on vacation, the unconscious is probably still working on the problem.”

A daydream, in this sense, is just a means of eavesdropping on those novel thoughts generated by the unconscious. We think we’re wasting time, but, actually, an intellectual fountain really is spurting.

Editors’ Notes:

1The quotation from Virginia Woolf was transcribed incorrectly in the initial version.

2Subjects were randomly assigned to four, not three, different conditions, as originally reported. A twelve-minute break was given to only three of those four groups. A final control condition not originally reported entailed participants being given no break at all.

Source: _http://www.brainpickings.org/2013/10/09/mind-wandering-and-creativity/

In the same vain read Mr. Scott's blog entry "Work smarter, not harder":

How to Work smarter, not harder

Define problem to be solved
Think of a way to solve it
Gather knowledge of how other people solved the same or a similar problem
Think some more of a way to solve it
Start trying to solve the problem
Start to struggle like a 2-legged goat on Mt. Everest
STOP! Go do something else.
That’s it.

[...]

Now, let’s precisely define Go do something else. This part is also easy. If you are sitting at your computer programming, go outside and dig a hole. Or go sew something. If you are sewing, go read a book, or edit a document. The key is to DO something else. You cannot just go lay down and relax and wait for inspiration to hit. DO something else.

If your problem is physical, do something mental. If your problem is mental and indoors, do something physical and outdoors. You get the idea…

Another thing you can do (which is my personal favorite), is to take a shower. I’m not kidding. Works like a charm!

There is another key to this “do something else” process: Do NOT consciously think about the problem. Do NOT stress over it. If the problem pops into your head, you can talk to yourself and say, “Dang, that’s really confusing. Well, I’ll figure it out…” and then push it out of your conscious mind.

Notice that you reinforced the idea that you ARE smart enough to solve the problem, and then you pushed it back down into the Background Queue in your brain.

[...]

I more or less figured out this technique based on several books I read, other people’s experiences and methods, and a “Genius Strikes!” moment. I have solved the most difficult programming problems using exactly this technique.

Just don’t forget that you really must know that you can do it. Don’t believe – KNOW. If you need to mentally review your past accomplishments and pat yourself on the back to work up some mojo, do it. No one is looking.

Give it a whirl, and see what happens!

I could well imagine that this is some form of "daydreaming", where the brain processes things in the background, and where we are almost completely oblivious of it.

My two cents.
 
Hi nicklebleu,

Thank you for your feedback.

I think the issue, in large part, is due to semantics. Your response has prompted me to dive in deeper to my understanding and usage of the term “daydreaming”. As you have noted and as pointed out in wikipedia (and else where), there is no consensus view, objective definition of the term. So I understand better now, how my use of the term created confusion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daydream
Daydreaming is a short-term detachment from one's immediate surroundings, during which a person's contact with reality is blurred and partially substituted by a visionary fantasy, especially one of happy, pleasant thoughts, hopes or ambitions, imagined as coming to pass, and experienced while awake.

There are many types of daydreams, and there is no consistent definition amongst psychologists, however the characteristic that is common to all forms of daydreaming meets the criteria for mild dissociation.[1]

Apparently my bias and cultural programming have given me the classical definition (and how I meant to use it as):

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/daydream
daydream
/ˈdeɪˌdriːm/
noun
1.
a pleasant dreamlike fantasy indulged in while awake; idle reverie
2.
a pleasant scheme or wish that is unlikely to be fulfilled; pipe dream
verb
3.
(intransitive) to have daydreams; indulge in idle fantasy

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/daydreaming
day·dream (ddrm)
n.
A dreamlike musing or fantasy while awake, especially of the fulfillment of wishes or hopes.


I was using the term to convey the disassociation and wishful thinking aspects of detaching from reality as being a waste of energy (utilizing my classical understanding of the term).

I now understand the points you raised as it seems the term continues to encompass a much broader scope.

What psychologists are now incorporating into the definition of “daydreaming” is what I have understood to be “creative thinking”.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creative_thinking
Creativity is a phenomenon whereby something new and in some way valuable is created (such as an idea, a joke, a literary work, painting or musical composition, a solution, an invention etc).


The major difference being 'guided' with an 'aim', a 'seed' is actively planted and allowed to grow (''something new and in some way valuable is created"); as opposed to passive wishful thinking, never to be acted upon.

Even the study you have given illustrates the fact that participants were given a 'seed' and/or 'aim'. And with Mr. Scott's example, he too planted a 'seed' and had an 'aim'. Both are based in their situational reality.

I agree that giving your mind the 'time' and 'space' needed with non-anticipation can be a powerful cognitive tool to achieve an 'aim'.

If, however, thoughts are filled with self-gratifying, wishful thinking that keep you disassociated; It's hard to see how this would be helpful to personal growth.

I hope this clears up my intent for responding to SummerLite. I am sorry if my use of the term “daydreaming” caused confusion. And again, thank you nickleblue for bringing this to my attention.
 
I reckon the key difference is what's the core intent in daydreaming? One I can imagine fairly commonplace is avoidance of reality. There's likely a whole bunch of difficult emotions that facing reality will surface, so we could dream perhaps an infinite amount of scenarios to help avoid those difficult feelings. Then there's dreaming that has a creative -problem solving intention like mentioned. The drive here is about seeing reality as squarely as possible to help create or facilitate practical real world solutions. To do that best involves needing to really see the problems and that requires functioning as fully as possible in reality.
 
I've actually participated in one of those psychological tests. We had to come up with as many uses for a tea bag as we could. Amazingly, we came up with 140 uses!.
Anyway, as an aside, I like to do cryptic crosswords. Some of the harder clues, I sleep on. When I tackle the puzzle the next day, quite often the answers come quickly.
Looks as if the brain works away at problems during sleep time.
That being said, it's time to sign off.
 
It may also be useful to throw in this term called maladaptive daydreaming. Some people are more naturally susceptible to it than others.

As someone who used dissociation as a form of self-defence I can see a positive and negative side to 'dreaming' in general compared to those who openly admit they don't indulge in such stuff.

The positive side is that yes, it helps you to cope in the face of overwhelming negative external pressure by providing a quick means of escape when you can't see a solution to the problem at hand. Without this escape route, I think you would buckle underneath the pressure. Another positive effect of daydreams is the ability to openly think broadly about things, try out different scenarios etc. In general also I find it helps de-clutter the brain. Usually I find if I go a long time without dissociation, my mind starts to get clogged up and I can feel a physiological effect. The difference in my view between a day dream and a 'night dream' is that the 1st is guided whilst the 2nd is subconscious. Both in my personal experience have a positive effect in terms of dealing with and deciphering reality. They also help in maintaining mental health. I think scientific research will eventually show that both are adaptive traits that enable survival, positive health and even creativity. I don't think a plane would ever have been invented if someone didn't dream about flying.

The negative side is yes, sometimes it hinders dealing with reality. When your default setting is to always dissociate when confronted with any sort of external challenge, then it follows that you won't take any action to overcome or understand the challenge in concrete actionable terms. In another sense, if you can't somehow ground your dissociation then it follows that whatever benefits gained from it can't be applied to waking life and thus can't help you deal with reality.

In both extremes, I find those who daydream a lot live in the clouds so to say and are always avoiding reality and those who totally don't are dogmatic, materialistic and authoritarian.

All in all, I think as with everything, balance is important and the interaction and synergy between concrete action and being able to dissociate healthily is the hallmark of a healthy and creative human being.
 
Thought I would include the following quotes from ISOTM:

"He cannot stop the flow of his thoughts, he cannot control his imagination, his emotions, his attention. He lives in a subjective world of 'I love,' 'I do not love,' 'I like,' 'I do not like,' 'I want,' 'I do not want,' that is, of what he thinks he likes, of what he thinks he does not like, of what he thinks he wants, of what he thinks he does not want. He does not see the real world. The real world is hidden from him by the wall of imagination. He lives in sleep. He is asleep. What is called 'clear consciousness' is sleep and a far more dangerous sleep than sleep at night in bed." - G.I. Gurdjieff

"Let us take some event in the life of humanity. For instance, war. There is a war going on at the present moment. What does it signify? It signifies that several millions of sleeping people are trying to destroy several millions of other sleeping people. They would not do this, of course, if they were to wake up. Everything that takes place is owing to this sleep." - G.I. Gurdjieff

Grabbed from an excellent amazon review of the book ;)
 
Until reading this study i were confident that we dreaming what we have in our brain. Reality is actually what for which our brain make calculations. While when it comes up to imagination it just skip the processing and shows us the raw data. :zzz:
 
Hi Elizabethmartin,

I'm glad you decided to join in the conversation. :) When you get an opportunity, can you post an intro in the newbies section so we can get to know you better? It doesn't have to be long, just a little something about yourself and how you found the forum.

https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/board,39.0.html
 
Thanks for the comments on my post. I haven't had a response until today. My original comment:


"This study addresses a topic I've been wanting to understand for awhile now and have been searching for answers. Specifically what is the process in the brain/nervous system when a person is a long time practioner of guided meditation. This would be meditation that is complex in its imagery and requires the person to use their imagination to "set" the process. Perhaps neurological pathways are being formed by this repetition so the brain is being "trained". Physiological sensations are experienced during this process and visions often occur.

So, this process would not be the experiencing of reality which is the basis of "the work" and a whole different process is accruing in the brain. I suppose this type of meditation process could have its benefits depending on the individuals perspective. On the flip side it could be harmful and lead a person more prone to illusion."
**********
I don't consider this is the same as meditating with seed although I don't have experience with this, needing to progress further with the EE breathing before I bring this is in. I'm speaking of elaborate, visionary experiences that are produced by active imagination and intent. This would be a totally different process then daydreaming, I'd say. So perhaps actually different then what this study is describing. I found this quote in the Praying thread and it was very helpful with this question: The Fourth Way

"Q. According to some esoteric teachings the mind of a man is like a pool When it is calm he can see things clearly and listen to 'the voice of the silence'

A. There are many dangers in that It is so easy to mix the real 'voice of the silence' with an imaginary voice, so easy to mix truth with imagination It may be the way for some people, but it is not the way for us We want to know more precisely how to evolve, so for us all such definitions are dangerous, for there is no instrument by which we can separate the imagination in them from reality That is what you must remember in this system—that you learn how to separate the imaginary from the real from the very beginning, when you learn to distinguish in yourself imagination from reality Then later, on higher levels of consciousness, you will be able to separate it in the objective world Many of these mystical ways only increase confusion Instead of bringing man nearer to truth, they lead him further from it."
******
In contacting "higher realms" (or other objectives) using imagination in this way ie, "guided meditations", I'm leery that although a relaxed or blissful state will be experienced and can be helpful to alleviate fear or stress the imaginary is at work and so various pitfalls may occur. I've considered its possible for these "states" to be used by "other" self serving beings to manipulate or feed off ones life force. Perhaps establishing circuitry in the nervous system so the person is set up for this with repeated and long time use. Maybe my own imagination is getting the best of me and I'm just paranoid :shock: But... my understanding of this is its usually the negative emotions that feed and not the "positive" as would be here in mediation of this sort. So I don't know.

Anyway, I did do this type of meditation for awhile thinking it would help with my evolution etc. But I never seemed to have much of a will to do it often, seemed rather strenuous and required a lot of time and energy. Maybe my "better self" saying no, its not for me. So my deeper and true view for myself is what G has said above and it was good to read that. I've seen people go off into fantastical realms meeting all sorts of beings etc. and there is no way of telling what is real and not and what the benefit is. Just recently, I visited with a person whose life was totally shaped by what could be fantasy or manipulation. This "story" gave her self importance but underneath, what was so obviously there, was deep wounding. Best to walk the path of "reality". It may seem a bit ho hum to some but I value my sanity and making progress along the path that is right for me. It is a great value to see the real since the imaginary is so promoted in our lives :D
 
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