AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN INFECTION?

Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?


It actually got pretty rough for a couple of hours there: stiff neck, aches and pains, blurry vision, pounding in the ears, nausea. The prednisone kicked in about two hours after taking it. Note to self: if you take the prednisone at the same time you take the first dose on any given round, it will come online at about the same time the symptoms start getting bad!

I'm better now. Not super, but holding my own!
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
It actually got pretty rough for a couple of hours there: stiff neck, aches and pains, blurry vision, pounding in the ears, nausea. The prednisone kicked in about two hours after taking it. Note to self: if you take the prednisone at the same time you take the first dose on any given round, it will come online at about the same time the symptoms start getting bad!

I'm better now. Not super, but holding my own!

Lol, I guess you keep thinking your through the bad stuff and the prednisone won't be necessary. I get it though, you don't want to have to take the prednisone unless absolutely necessary.

Stay strong!
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

genero81 said:
Lol, I guess you keep thinking your through the bad stuff and the prednisone won't be necessary. I get it though, you don't want to have to take the prednisone unless absolutely necessary.

Stay strong!

Yeah. Not only would I like to avoid taking it, I'd like to get a good feeling of what is going on in my system.

One thing I wondered is this: would I feel like this if ONLY the gut bacteria was being killed off? Anybody got any idea?
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
One thing I wondered is this: would I feel like this if ONLY the gut bacteria was being killed off? Anybody got any idea?
Not usually, no.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Hithere said:
Laura said:
One thing I wondered is this: would I feel like this if ONLY the gut bacteria was being killed off? Anybody got any idea?
Not usually, no.

Yeah, I guess you are right. I've taken a number of antibiotics that probably killed off my gut bacteria but didn't make me sick as a dog!
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
It actually got pretty rough for a couple of hours there: stiff neck, aches and pains, blurry vision, pounding in the ears, nausea. The prednisone kicked in about two hours after taking it. Note to self: if you take the prednisone at the same time you take the first dose on any given round, it will come online at about the same time the symptoms start getting bad!

I'm better now. Not super, but holding my own!

A couple of things come to mind that may help. Firstly I remember yo getting similar symptoms when taking mega high doses of vitamin D.
Two possibilities, either the D was killing the amoeba and/or both the D in high dose and the dying amoeba are putting a high toxicity load on your liver. Milk thistle will probably help here.

Stress from all this will deplete minerals too, especially potassium. I know from the MTHFR protocol that getting enough potassium is actually really important - when the body is healing it's used up quickly.
A simple test for this would be to take potassium pills (up to 3-4) over a few hours and see what happens to the symptoms, especially the neck pain. Neck pain is my main signal that I'm inflamed and/or low on potassium.

Gut problems can cause neck pain and the other symptoms too. If the guts are getting rid of toxins they need extra potassium to help move things along, and may need something like activated charcoal to help expell things.
Flipping that around, if you're inflamed from all this your guts will be extra sensitive to things (i.e. leaky). Vitamin D might help calm the inflammatory responce a bit.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Andre' said:
Thank you all for such valuable information, thank you Laura for sharing your experience by taking the medicine, i have pains in the spine, shoulders, and when i'm walking like 20 mins the legs are becoming heavy like they are made of iron, i barely can move them, it doesn't happen always though. I'm interested to follow this protocol, but first i would like to ask, the allopurinol and metronidazol requires a prescription from your doctor to be able to buy them from drug stores?

In most countries these medications require a prescription. What you are describing might be something else than RA. Have you had your iron levels checked? Have you cleaned up your diet? Have you made an elimination diet and know which foods you tolerate and which not?

I think that the first step would be all of the above, mainly because the symptoms which you describe might go away without the protocol, and if not, it creates a basis for your body to heal once you have done the protocol.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
genero81 said:
Lol, I guess you keep thinking your through the bad stuff and the prednisone won't be necessary. I get it though, you don't want to have to take the prednisone unless absolutely necessary.

Stay strong!

Yeah. Not only would I like to avoid taking it, I'd like to get a good feeling of what is going on in my system.

One thing I wondered is this: would I feel like this if ONLY the gut bacteria was being killed off? Anybody got any idea?

Dr. Hulda Clark the microbiologist, had the idea that bacteria contained viruses within them, and that if you kill the bacteria, then you have to kill the viruses they release, (herxheimer reaction). It would depend on what viruses they were harbouring, and what organs they infect, on how you would feel.
Her solution would be to keep zapping periodically and take the herbs / supplements according to her regimen.
Bacteria also produce various toxins, so if you were killing a lot of bacteria, you might be releasing a lot of toxins, hence you would feel lousy. If that is the case, maybe you should not kill them so quickly.
I'm not a medico, so professional advice would be in order.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Well, I slept SUPER good last night. Only got up once (going to the restroom increases when taking the antibiotic and I drink water and tea to keep flushing) and I remember pulling the drapes to shut out the moonlight coming in around the shades. I then went straight back to bed and slept really deeply the rest of the night.

I got up, made my preparations for taking first dose, i.e. taking probiotics and eating breakfast. Then, I took the dose and I've been fine ever since. That was a couple hours ago. I've had good energy today and again, the lighter feeling in the legs.

One interesting thing last night. I knew I needed to take some food before the last dose at 9 PM so I decided to just eat some white rice with butter and a little honey to buffer my stomach. It worked like a charm. Usually, I can't eat meat or anything else very late or my stomach is distressed all night. But not only did the rice help buffer the med, it seems to have digested quickly and easily. I also think it provides a good medium for the probiotics. PLUS, the unusual thing: about 30 minutes after eating it and taking the meds, I felt waves of heat rising off my skin, like energy being burned.

Anyway, I think that a bit of rice to keep the friendly critters happy might be one useful trick.
 
Re: RHEUMATOID ARTHRITIS CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

MusicMan said:
Dr. Hulda Clark the microbiologist, had the idea that bacteria contained viruses within them, and that if you kill the bacteria, then you have to kill the viruses they release, (herxheimer reaction). It would depend on what viruses they were harbouring, and what organs they infect, on how you would feel.
Her solution would be to keep zapping periodically and take the herbs / supplements according to her regimen.
Bacteria also produce various toxins, so if you were killing a lot of bacteria, you might be releasing a lot of toxins, hence you would feel lousy. If that is the case, maybe you should not kill them so quickly.
I'm not a medico, so professional advice would be in order.

RedFox said:
I did find another connection between amoebae's and arthritis - it's a virus that replicated inside amoebae's.

http://jvi.asm.org/content/early/2013/10/24/JVI.03141-13
Exposure to Mimivirus Collagen Promotes Arthritis

Collagens, the most abundant proteins in animals, also occur in some recently described nucleocytoplasmic large DNA viruses such as Mimiviridae, which replicate in amoebae. To clarify the impact of viral collagens on the immune response of animals exposed to Mimiviridae, we have investigated the localization of collagens in Acanthamoeba polyphaga mimivirus particles and the response of mice to immunization with mimivirus particles. Using protein biotinylation, we have first shown that viral collagen encoded by the ORF L71 is present at the surface of mimivirus particles. Exposure to mimivirus collagens elicited the production of anti-collagen antibodies in DBA/1 mice immunized intra-dermally with mimivirus protein extracts. This antibody response also targeted mouse collagen type II and was accompanied by T-cell reactivity to collagen and joint inflammation as observed in collagen-induced arthritis following immunization of mice with bovine collagen type II. The broad distribution of nucleocytoplasmic large DNA viruses in the environment suggests that humans are constantly exposed to such large virus particles. A survey of blood sera from human healthy subjects and from rheumatoid arthritis patients indeed demonstrated that 30% of healthy subject and 36% of rheumatoid arthritis sera recognized the major mimivirus capsid protein L425. Moreover, whereas 6% of healthy subject sera recognized the mimivirus collagen protein L71, 22% of rheumatoid arthritis sera were positive for mimivirus L71. Accordingly, our study shows that environmental exposure to mimivirus represents a risk factor in triggering autoimmunity to collagens.

So this could be part of the mechanism involved.

From looking, the mimivirus doesn't have an outer envelope so monolaurin probably won't touch it.

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Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
Well, I slept SUPER good last night. Only got up once (going to the restroom increases when taking the antibiotic and I drink water and tea to keep flushing) and I remember pulling the drapes to shut out the moonlight coming in around the shades. I then went straight back to bed and slept really deeply the rest of the night.

I got up, made my preparations for taking first dose, i.e. taking probiotics and eating breakfast. Then, I took the dose and I've been fine ever since. That was a couple hours ago. I've had good energy today and again, the lighter feeling in the legs.

One interesting thing last night. I knew I needed to take some food before the last dose at 9 PM so I decided to just eat some white rice with butter and a little honey to buffer my stomach. It worked like a charm. Usually, I can't eat meat or anything else very late or my stomach is distressed all night. But not only did the rice help buffer the med, it seems to have digested quickly and easily. I also think it provides a good medium for the probiotics. PLUS, the unusual thing: about 30 minutes after eating it and taking the meds, I felt waves of heat rising off my skin, like energy being burned.

Anyway, I think that a bit of rice to keep the friendly critters happy might be one useful trick.

Well that's good to know. I was looking for a quote that I can't seem to find that I'm wondering if parallels this. My understanding is that doing EE and clearing things out then requires knowledge input and putting something back in the place of what's been removed - or others will fill that space for you. I wondered if the same applies on the level of the body and critters? When you kill off the bad, you need to add in the good to fill the space?

I know gut bacteria produce lots of B vitamins, and this from a few days ago also comes to mind:
Gut flora helps the body produce vitamin C - which is a pretty big thing given humans can't produce vitamin C and most other mammals can if I remember correctly.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

RedFox said:
I was looking for a quote that I can't seem to find that I'm wondering if parallels this. My understanding is that doing EE and clearing things out then requires knowledge input and putting something back in the place of what's been removed - or others will fill that space for you.

This one?

Session 09 June 2009 said:
A: When you sweep the house and leave it clean if you do not decide what to put back in then others will do it.

Q: (Craig) Does that apply to this group, or the public in general?

A: Not this group. But definitely those who have not integrated consciousness. The breathing is a tool, a technique, and should be seen as such and not as the result.
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

That's the one TC, thanks.
I searched 'house' and 'clean' but nothing showed up :huh:
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Hithere said:
Laura said:
One thing I wondered is this: would I feel like this if ONLY the gut bacteria was being killed off? Anybody got any idea?
Not usually, no.

Hi Laura and forum members,
it seems that there are lots of processes running parallel with the Herx reaction;

_https://chronicillnessrecovery.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=161

Herxheimer reactions are an unavoidable and necessary result of Inflammation Therapy (IT).
....
Chronically ill patients are carrying a heavy load of intracellular pathogens by the time they become symptomatic because the Th1/Th17 infection has been growing, unhindered, for most of a patient's life. The immune system response when these intracellular bacteria are recognized and killed causes a similar immune cascade.

Immunopathology

Immunopathology is a term, similar to Herxheimer, used by the scientific community. It describes all the collateral pathological effects on the body (e.g., hormonal, endocrine, cell death and blood count changes) caused by the immune system during normal function.

Intracellular bacteria

WirostkoIt’s normal for the body to generate an immune response when challenged by foreign matter such as microbes and allergens. Research has led to the hypothesis that this reaction in chronically ill patients is triggered by cell wall deficient, polymorphic L-form microbes. It is believed these intracellular bacteria have learned to live inside the macrophages (phagocytes) of the immune system. Apparently, they fail to be destroyed by the phagocytes which are supposed to kill them because they have adapted mechanisms to prevent being identified by the immune system.

When the intraphagocytic bacteria are killed by the immune system, the cells they lived in also die (apoptosis). As the immune system tries to clear up this cellular debris, it releases a host of inflammatory molecules which, along with the toxins released by the bacteria as they die, cause a rise in symptoms in the area in which the bacteria are being killed.

Identifying the bacteria

It’s difficult (and unnecessary) to determine which of the many species of intracellular mycoplasma might be responsible for individual Th1/Th17 inflammatory diseases. These bacteria are difficult to see even with an electron microscope, very slow growing and tedious to culture. This is only done in a research lab and makes it impractical to cross-match species to find the appropriate antibiotics.

Thus, the elicitation of a Herxheimer reaction is a key component of IT to determine, by therapeutic probe, which antibiotics are effective.

Identifying the Herxheimer reaction

Herxheimer symptoms are varied, may be unexpected, subjective or objective. Patients report that a Herxheimer reaction makes them feel as though their disease symptoms have suddenly gotten worse. They may describe reactivation of previous symptoms, exacerbation of current symptoms, or new symptoms. The onset of herxing is from 1-2 hrs to 10 days after the antibiotic/s are administered. Patients who have received other therapies prior to starting IT may have delayed or reduced Herxheimer reactions.

The intensity of the reaction is thought to be dependent on many factors; location of the inflammation, appropriateness of the antibiotic/s, the antibiotic dosage, the presence of immunosuppressants, the level of 25 hydroxyvitamin-D and the prophylactic dosing schedule of Benicar used to interrupt the inflammatory cascade.

Herxheimer symptoms usually wax and wane with antibiotic administration but dramatic waxing and waning of symptoms doesn’t always happen. An increase in symptoms may be constant for varying intervals. Patients with effective detoxification and elimination systems may not experience significant aggravation of symptoms.

Herxheimer symptoms usually wax and wane with antibiotic administration but dramatic waxing and waning of symptoms doesn’t always happen. An increase in symptoms may be constant for varying intervals. Patients with effective detoxification and elimination systems may not experience significant aggravation of symptoms.

Most, if not all, symptoms experienced while on IT are due to Th1/Th17 inflammation, although patients are still susceptible to acute infections (e.g., bacterial, viral, etc.). Patients may correctly attribute any or all symptoms as being due to immunopathology and not a progression of the disease.

Since chronically ill patients are believed to have acquired many different species of intracellular bacteria over a long period of time, the effectiveness of a different antibiotic combination probe with a positive Herxheimer reaction demonstrates the presence of another species, or of bacteria previously hidden within tissues poorly perfused by the antibiotics.

Patients will continue to experience Herxheimer reactions as long as effective antibiotic therapy continues. Trial and error with carefully selected antibiotic combinations provokes a resumption of herxing when symptoms have subsided.

...
New symptoms

IT doesn’t create new inflammation because it can't make bacteria appear where there weren't any bacteria before. When patients experience new symptoms they haven't had before, it's probably because the therapy is exposing more bacteria.

Without therapy, these hidden bacteria would not remain hidden for ever. Eventually they would multiply to the point where they reveal themselves in new symptoms. If patients stop therapy prematurely, not only will the 'new' symptoms remain and worsen, but also further new symptoms will gradually develop, just as they would have done if the patient had never started IT.

Most symptoms have been reported by other patients on IT. The exact molecular mechanism for them is obscure and a topic best left to the scientists. The simple explanation is that Th1/Th17 inflammation during the disease process and during Herxheimer reactions affects a wide variety of biochemical processes.

The disease process causes symptoms and patients with chronic inflammatory diseases are systemically ill. Likely, no part of the body has escaped some damage even if it isn’t readily apparent.

Wanting to know specifically why certain symptoms occur is micromanaging the process and unnecessary. It’s best not to try to fit every symptom into a category (herx, hormone readjustment, old symptom revisited, etc.). If patients are patient with the therapeutic process and have confidence it will work, they will eventually forget they ever had these symptoms.

Herxheimer symptoms versus disease progression

Most disease symptoms progress slowly. Herxheimer symptoms usually flare quickly. If the underlying cause of chronic illness, intracellular bacteria, is being eliminated it is unlikely the disease process is progressing.

’Side effects’

Herxheimer symptoms are not a 'side effect' of IT medications. Herxheimer symptoms are caused by the disease process, not directly by Benicar or the antibiotics.
....
Managing expected Herxheimer reactions

Herxheimer reactions are an unavoidable part of the long journey to recovery. Although herxing is often unpredictable, it can be managed with the correct use of Benicar, the judicious choice of antibiotic combinations, careful antibiotic dosing schedules, adjustment of antibiotic dosing and palliative medications. IT does not require eliciting a more severe herxing than a patient can tolerate in order to eliminate the bacteria.

As the number of dying bacteria is reduced with subsequent antibiotic doses, effective treatment requires increasing doses and changing antibiotic combinations to continue eliciting a Herxheimer response. The occurrence of herxing is seen as evidence of continuing elimination of these very persistent bacteria. Details of Herxheimer symptom management are in our Library of Information.

How to reduce disability caused by Herxheimer reactions

Patients can help lessen the disability experienced during Inflammation Therapy if they:
Minimize exposure to other sources of toxins, including airborne chemicals and pollutants, food containing additives or other chemicals, unnecessary medications, poor water etc.
Maximize the quality of food, water and air.
Avoid unnecessary stress.
Rest during the day, especially if experiencing sleep problems at night.
Keep a perspective that symptoms, though unpleasant, are rarely life threatening and will diminish with time.
Remember that intracellular bacteria can influence thinking (psychological symptoms) and may encourage counterproductive activities.

Therapeutic efficacy

The patient is expected to experience episodic Herxheimer reactions as long as antibiotic therapy is needed. The gradual resolution of symptoms has been noted to require months or years depending on the extent of Th1/Th17 inflammation. The Herxheimer reaction is a key component in evaluating the efficacy of each IT antibiotic, antibiotic combination or dosing schedule. The lack of a Herxheimer reaction when disease symptoms are still present signals a need for a change in dosing schedule or antibiotic.

Remission is determined by absence of symptoms, both objective and subjective.

Please take note that Benicar here mentioned is a blood pressure lowering drug, as far as I could find references, which contain some dire warning! I don't exactly know if Benicar is necessary.
_http://www.drugs.com/benicar.html

Also Prednisolone has some warninsg attached:
_http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Polymyalgia-rheumatica/Pages/MedicineSideEffects.aspx?condition=Herxheimer%20reaction&medicine=Prednisolone

Common: More than 1 in 100 people who take Prednisolone
psychiatric problems or psychotic-like behaviour - you or your carer must seek medical advice if symptoms such as feeling irritable, euphoria, depressed and labile mood, thoughts of committing suicide, mania, delusions, hallucinations, worsening of schizophrenia, behavioural changes, confusion, feeling anxious, memory problems or sleeping problems occur

and the list of side effects continues, and is quite long...

Well, all this seems to indicate that:

- we might need other combination of antibiotics, which I remember that the C's also indicated in Session 20 August 2011, as long as they give a Herx reaction
- not complicate yourself with testing as is inefficient
- by trial and error one can find what is the way to follow
- seems that antioxidants (vitamins C, D) could alleviate the symptoms

FWIW

Joy
 
Re: AUTOIMMUNE DISEASES CAUSED BY AN AMOEBA INFECTION?

Laura said:
Well, I slept SUPER good last night. Only got up once (going to the restroom increases when taking the antibiotic and I drink water and tea to keep flushing) and I remember pulling the drapes to shut out the moonlight coming in around the shades. I then went straight back to bed and slept really deeply the rest of the night.

I'm really glad Laura that that following the protocol now is more easy, it goes more smoothly so to say.
I wanted to ask please a clarification about alopurinol, if you start this protocol you have to take alopurinol just the first day of the each week for a total of 6 weeks period?
 
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