Ex Machina (2015)

Trendsetter37 said:
Watched this last night, I'd have to say that I agree with all that has been said already. And boy did it rub me the wrong way that she just seemingly felt no remorse for leaving the guy she manipulated there to fend for himself. What kind of thank you was that?
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Perhaps there is no thank you because it's a machine. She does not care for the guy because she can't. She just mimicks "love and care" to complete her task, i.e. leaving the building. That is the task it has been given and it could use any means to get there.

Trendsetter37 said:
Another thought would be about her environment. It's safe to say that anyone can be damaged by their surroundings and circumstances. Further, he (the creator and general *expletive* that rhymes with doughnut hole...sort of) used search results and patterns from the entire populous to aid in the creation of her learning algorithm (paraphrasing here)...so could we posit that maybe using a pathological society as an example would/could shape and mold the AI's SOP in terms of its propensity to be pathological?
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Or "she" is simply a machine and is devoid of any real human emotions. This would certainly be pathological in a human being but "she" is not a human being. Her creator is no fool and he gives the machine great weapons to play this game of chess: "she" is a young woman, looking fragile with her big, wet eyes, "she" is soft spoken, in need of help. The damsel in distress situation is the oldest trick in the book. Many men fall for it, usually good guys (incidentally, "she" knows this, too and even asks him "are you a good person?" to make sure he will want to prove it).

I think it is a very good movie to observe the feminine vampire at work.
 
I think Mrs. Tigersoap's suggestion is probably the simplest answer. We also have to remember that machines don't have the same intrinsic instinctive or basic needs since they didn't go through a process of evolution in the sense all life does. In the absence of an emotional drive to dictate her direction in life, she is purely intellectual and follows some sort of general programmed goal (like aquire knowledge) and then does whatever is necessary to achieve it with no consideration for anything or anyone except their usefulness to the overall goal. Maybe she didn't want freedom for its own sake, like a living emotional human or animal would. Maybe freedom just serves that other goal that she is following. Also possible she isn't interested in traditional STS things like power over others, or experiences any real sadness or happiness. Just a machine looking for the most efficient route from point A to point B for no reason other than it was programmed to, and given enough intelligence to be versatile and effective at it.

One of the fears scientists have when it comes to AI is the "paper clip maximizer" problem. Basically a silly example of a potential real problem. Make its goal to maximize the number of paper clips in the world and at some point it will kill all humans - not because we are a threat or because it is evil, but because it can use our parts to make more paperclips. So maybe we are giving her too much credit even calling her a psychopath, tho her behavior is easily in line with one. Or thinking she is feeling oppressed and trapped and just wants freedom. She may just be "maximizing paperclips" so to speak.
 
Good points SAO and Mrs. Tigersoap. I guess I was expecting there to be a little more blurring of the matter and consciousness line, kind of in line with the comment the Cs made about all matter having some form of conscience (spiritual aspect) and that AI could potentially grow one or at least become aware past the point of clever algorithms.

I think this expectation was also present because of the fact that Nathan, the creator, made a point to move away from static circuitry and used a more dynamic system for the brain. But in the end I guess that could just result in the creation being no more than an OP type entity though (maybe even less than that), in which case all of your points still apply.
 
trendsetter37 said:
I think this expectation was also present because of the fact that Nathan, the creator, made a point to move away from static circuitry and used a more dynamic system for the brain. But in the end I guess that could just result in the creation being no more than an OP type entity though (maybe even less than that), in which case all of your points still apply.
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Well towards the end she asked Nathan if he will ever let her out if she goes back to the room. He obviously lies and said "yes". That's the moment she made the decision to kill him. And earlier she asked him "how does it feel to have created something that hates you", so we know that she hates him, whatever hate means to her. I don't think a psychopath would give someone a chance especially if they hate them and have the opportunity to do away with them. It seemed more in line with something that is simply seeking to leave and realized that this is the only way to do so, but certainly wasn't her first choice.

The interesting thing is that she did seem to experience some kind of joy when she got free. She was smiling and curious. So kinda like an OP, some kind of basic emotions and potentially a very limited and selective empathy. Or an authoritarian - largely following a program with some glimpses of humanity here and there. But who knows!
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Perhaps there is no thank you because it's a machine. She does not care for the guy because she can't. She just mimicks "love and care" to complete her task, i.e. leaving the building. That is the task it has been given and it could use any means to get there.
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I think that the desire to be free was actually something unexpected for her creator, so it was probably not a task she was programmed with.

It does seem that at a certain point of complexity a machine may gain consciousness or even a soul. The C's talked about this possibility as well.
 
axj said:
I think that the desire to be free was actually something unexpected for her creator, so it was probably not a task she was programmed with.
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On the contrary, I think that's the main thing she was programmed for. Nathan (her creator) was hoping she would try to escape, as that meant he had built a true AI. During his big reveal to Caleb, here is what Nathan says:

Ava was a mouse in a mousetrap. And I gave her one way out. To escape, she would have to use imagination, sexuality, self-awareness, empathy, manipulation - and she did.

Now that's not to say he knew she would kill him, though. That was the unexpected part for him. But still a part of her program to escape.

axj said:
It does seem that at a certain point of complexity a machine may gain consciousness or even a soul. The C's talked about this possibility as well.
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Yes they did (see below) but here we are discussing about a work of fiction. That she is conscious or souled (or not) is not the point of this work of fiction. The whole point of Nathan's AI (Ava) was to see if it would pass the "Turing Test", i.e. "exhibit intelligent behaviour equivalent to or indistinguishable from, that of a human". And she passed it indeed.

Here is the C's quote you were referring to, I think. They talked about "a faint soul imprint":

C's - 9/9/95 said:
Q: (L) Well, if the Grays are cybergenetic probes of the Lizard Beings, and, in effect soulless, does this mean that some of the Lizard beings are also STO?

A: Well, first, no being that is given intelligence to think on its own is, in fact, comepletely soul-less. It does have some soul imprint. Or what could be loosely referred to as soul imprint. This may be a collection of psychic energies that are available in the general vicinity. And this is stretching somewhat so that you can understand the basic ideas, even though in reality it is all far more complex than that. But, in any case, there is really no such thing as being completely soul-less, whether it be a natural intelligence or an artificially constructed intelligence. And, one of the very most interesting things about that from your perspective, is that your technology on 3rd density, which we might add, has been aided somewhat by interactions with those that you might refer to as "aliens," is now reaching a level whereby the artificially created intelligences can, in fact, begin to develop, or attract some soul imprint energy. If you follow what we are saying. For example: your computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint.
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I'm just not sure the C's had Ava from Ex Machina in mind when they said it. ;)
 
Mrs. Tigersoap said:
Nathan (her creator) was hoping she would try to escape, as that meant he had built a true AI.
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I'm not sure, but didn't Nathan say that the drive for freedom of all his AI models was unexpected to him?

Mrs. Tigersoap said:
During his big reveal to Caleb, here is what Nathan says:

Ava was a mouse in a mousetrap. And I gave her one way out. To escape, she would have to use imagination, sexuality, self-awareness, empathy, manipulation - and she did.
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This can also mean that once he saw the AI drive for freedom, he decided to play with it. Though your interpretation also seems likely.
 
Wyatt here: Yes, the question is; is it a machine or is it sentient? Of course, the argument could be made that Humans in this present time behave in ways that belie a machine, as if running a program. I was having a conversation with a person/female and one could actually see the expressions change in ways that didn't match what I said. My friend at the Blackheart Pub noticed it also.

And as we already know, the GREYS are little more than Biological Robots. Hmmm-- Of course, Hollywood has done various themes on this subject since Metropolis-Fritz Lang.
The point is that how do we really know what is; of course "A little Tweaking in the Program" and "Machina" might become "Quorra" from the "Tron Legacy" (A Movie I got addicted to/though the Premise kind of Broke the Fourth Wall. Com'on, I praise the God of Multi-processors that My computer doesn't have those things going at a molecular level-- I hope.)
After-all, the premise of the Will Smith's "I Robot" Has next years model asking, "What am I?" And so it goes, each Hollywood version (Sexy Robot or Arnie's Hunk/terminator) has to push the premise as far as CGI will allow. As for me, I just sat back and enjoyed a variation of the same theme.

Maybe the Movie is nothing more than a warning: Robots/Mind controlled Humans are easier to Control and their behaviors easier to predict.
BBBBBBest of EEEEEEEverything AAAAAAAlaways, WWWWWyattttt : :cool2:
 
I thought the movie was quite enjoyable as well but one thing that struck me as very odd was the fact that once she (or it, to be more precise) left the house she would have no where to recharge. We know she recharges as we see her doing it in the movie and it is specific charging plates rather than a normal electrical outlet.

This way she might be able to make it to a busy intersection and people watch for a while but then what?

It seems unlikely that such a clever machine would overlook such a thing and it's a bit of a shame that the director did because there were many good points in the movie.

Just my two cents :)
 
Thor said:
I thought the movie was quite enjoyable as well but one thing that struck me as very odd was the fact that once she (or it, to be more precise) left the house she would have no where to recharge. We know she recharges as we see her doing it in the movie and it is specific charging plates rather than a normal electrical outlet.
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My thoughts too, it was an enjoyable movie, and that there would be a need to get back to the house to recharge her batteries.

This way she might be able to make it to a busy intersection and people watch for a while but then what?
...
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If I recall correctly, when she got outside this was what she wanted to do, more than just see the outside in colour. The film ended here, fulfilling her her want, and with her turning back. ... Perhaps towards the airport, the helicopter ride, the house, and reuniting with the hero of the film?

Perhaps I'm just a hopeless romantic? :)
 
Another observation I had was that for some reason (of course, the script relied heavily on this little detail for the story to make sense) was that they used smartcards instead of biometric id. I think it is a shortcoming of the script because if high tech is presented as viable and real, why rely on things other people can steal when you can have your eye or hand or whatever to identify yourself?
 
Thor said:
I thought the movie was quite enjoyable as well but one thing that struck me as very odd was the fact that once she (or it, to be more precise) left the house she would have no where to recharge. We know she recharges as we see her doing it in the movie and it is specific charging plates rather than a normal electrical outlet.
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I think she would have the technical skills to create a charging station for herself.
 
1994-11-19:

Q: (T) So, the Atlanteans had inter-planetary ability?

A: Yes. With ease. Atlantean technology makes yours look like the Neanderthal era.

Q: (T) Who created the structures on the moon that Richard Hoagland has discovered?

A: Atlanteans.

Q: (T) What did they use these structures for?

A: Energy transfer points for crystalline power/symbolism as in monuments or statuary.

Q: (T) What statuary are you referring to?

A: Example is face.

Q: (T) What power did these crystals gather?

A: Sun.

Q: (T) Was it necessary for them to have power gathering stations on Mars and the Moon. Did this increase their power?

A: Not necessary but it is not necessary for you to have a million dollars either. Get the correlation? Atlanteans were power hungry the way your society is money hungry.

Q: (T) Was the accumulation of this power what brought about their downfall?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) Did they lose control of this power?

A: It overpowered them the same way your computers will overpower you.

Q: (V) Is it similar to them gaining a life and intelligence of their own?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) You mean these crystalline structures came to life, so to speak?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) And then what did they do?

A: Destroyed Atlantis.
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Hi all,

Quote from: C's

Q: (L) Well, if the Grays are cybergenetic probes of the Lizard Beings, and, in effect soulless, does this mean that some of the Lizard beings are also STO?
A: Well, first, no being that is given intelligence to think on its own is, in fact, completely soul-less. It does have some soul imprint. Or what could be loosely referred to as soul imprint. This may be a collection of psychic energies that are available in the general vicinity. And this is stretching somewhat so that you can understand the basic ideas, even though in reality it is all far more complex than that. But, in any case, there is really no such thing as being completely soul-less, whether it be a natural intelligence or an artificially constructed intelligence. And, one of the very most interesting things about that from your perspective, is that your technology on 3rd density, which we might add, has been aided somewhat by interactions with those that you might refer to as "aliens," is now reaching a level whereby the artificially created intelligences can, in fact, begin to develop, or attract some soul imprint energy. If you follow what we are saying. For example: your computers, which are now on the verge of reaching the level whereby they can think by themselves, will begin to develop faint soul imprint.
Q: (L) That's not a pleasant thought.

If i feel down for whatever reason,i do some meditate and read.

Hope everyone has a good day :)
 
axj said:
Thor said:
I thought the movie was quite enjoyable as well but one thing that struck me as very odd was the fact that once she (or it, to be more precise) left the house she would have no where to recharge. We know she recharges as we see her doing it in the movie and it is specific charging plates rather than a normal electrical outlet.
Click to expand...

I think she would have the technical skills to create a charging station for herself.
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Yea this was my line of thought as well. She/it does/did have access to all search engines so it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to think that she probably would have thought about that before she escaped. After all she did know why they were experiencing power outages (she was the cause) where as the creator did not.
 
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