Greece: debt, creditors, austerity measures, Syriza, Varoufakis, Troika

Yeah, i too think that between now and the 5th of July, the Empire is going to pull every single trick in the book to ensure that things don't go easily. In their psychopathic mind its probably like " How dare they go for the referendum, they will pay for this !" :(. This really is a brilliant move, turning the tables on the troika, and as AI mentioned, using back their own doublespeak/doublethink. Its basically going to be a referendum about the future of the EU, for if the outcome is a resounding "No", then i think the people of Spain, Portugal etc all having budget troubles with the EU could demand similar referendums - and down goes the house of cards.

Wow, also thought about the C's mentioning in Feb 2015, that "4 months will reveal dramatic change" - this could possibly be the start....

Indeed, good luck Greece !
 
I've been following the Greek news and Greek tweets all day, it's crazy. The old "kings" of Greece are freaking out, along with the elite. Tsipras has no opinion of himself, he makes the Greek public decide for him, said one ex-pm. Kind of tells you how he ruled and how he would like to continue to rule over "his subjects". Even a couple of pop-stars came out and pretended to have words of wisdom, the likes of staying in the EU and EU should remain united, tears and grief if we are the cause of a tear in the Old Continent etc. They missed the point of the referendum: it is whether or not the Greek people want to accept the last measures offered by the European "partners", who have relentlessly and illogically been turning down the Greek counter measures for weeks now. Counter measures that even I thought by the end they were more in favor of the "partners" than the Greek people. They really can't say that the Greek government didn't try to meet them in the middle.

So the result of the referendum will either force the Greek government to accept the proposals of the "partners" or the Greek people say No, the government turns to the partners saying "Sorry, the Greek people spoke, you have to come up with something better, or something else". It doesn't mean that there will be a Grexit if people vote No. Though I do hope for one personally. So it's whether it will be Yes or No to the unsustainable and counter intuitive measures of austerity or not. What happens after the results, we have to wait and see... for the results first. I do see that a lot of people are fed up these past 5 years in Greece and they have nothing more to lose, and they want to say a big No to TROIKA and the EE when all they have left is pride, but then there's the few that have a lot to lose and own most of Greek institutions and media, and from now till the 5th of July they will be entering into a huge fear mongering campaign (they already started), and you know... people in stress and fear don't make the best decisions. Plus the PTB can always come up with ways to divert the course towards democracy and bring even more shock and chaos and fear. But my heart is with the Greek people totally, and I do have faith in them.

And what I see in local but also international news-sites are pictures of supposedly huge lines outside ATMs all over Greece, and the supposed panic of the Greek public. Oh dear! They should go take pictures at the unemployment centers and the soup kitchens, that's where the truly huge lines are, and have been for years now!

To me this referendum is not something big. It's small potatoes. The something big I am expecting (and probably will never get, but hope dies last!) is for Greece to say a big FU to EE, get out of there, go back to their currency, and bring those who agreed and those who imposed these austerity measures to begin with in a court of law for treason and manslaughter. For the ten thousands who committed suicide, for the hundred thousands that are homeless and truly hungry all over the country.

Anyway, that's the end to my rant. I should go do some garden work or something....
 
Well, the Eurogroup has responded to the referendum by not allowing Greece an extension past June 30th therefore making the referendum a mute point.

Eurogroup statement on Greece:

Since the 20 February 2015 agreement of the Eurogroup on the extension of the current financial assistance arrangement, intensive negotiations have taken place between the institutions and the Greek authorities to achieve a successful conclusion of the review. Given the prolonged deadlock in negotiations and the urgency of the situation, institutions have put forward a comprehensive proposal on policy conditionality, making use of the given flexibility within the current arrangement.

Regrettably, despite efforts at all levels and full support of the Eurogroup, this proposal has been rejected by the Greek authorities who broke off the programme negotiations late on the 26 June unilaterally. The Eurogroup recalls the significant financial transfers and support provided to Greece over the last years. The Eurogroup has been open until the very last moment to further support the Greek people through a continued growth-oriented programme.

The Eurogroup takes note of the decision of the Greek government to put forward a proposal to call for a referendum, which is expected to take place on Sunday July 5, which is after the expiration of the programme period. The current financial assistance arrangement with Greece will expire on 30 June 2015, as well as all agreements related to the current Greek programme including the transfer by euro area Member States of SMP and ANFA equivalent profits.

The euro area authorities stand ready to do whatever is necessary to ensure financial stability of the euro area.

[1] Supported by all members of the Eurogroup except the Greek member.
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http://www.sott.net/article/298353-The-US-and-EU-will-collapse-regardless-of-economic-contagion

I think this post is relevant to this thread. I think the article completely nails where we're heading and probably won't be long now.
 
We just got the Varoufakis' book about economy (Milontas sten kore eoy gia ten oikonomia) translated. Is it good?

_http://www.rts.rs/page/stories/sr/story/125/Dru%C5%A1tvo/1961451/Varufakisova+knjiga+o+ekonomiji.html
 
The list of conditions that gave rise to Greece for suspension of negotiations

When he saw the list , Tsipras on Friday evening stood in front of the camera, called the loan terms "degrading" and 5 July a referendum in which the Greeks declare whether they accept those conditions or not.
Conditions are printed on 10 pages.
Blackmail is too mild a word.

Link:
 
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Looks like Greek banks will be closed on Monday and the government is going to implement capital controls though they haven't yet specified what kind of controls will be imposed. :(

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33305019
 
But it was expected, or should have been, that the closer you get to the end-game scenario, the harder the course gets.. like a theoritical black hole... Tsipras, V and the gang tried to keep it 'fun' and uplifting for the audience a little too much, but they really don't have the majority needed in parliament to push any policy on their own... one problem with this kind of system, if they had a 2 party type like we 'enjoy' here in the USofA, then agreement on NWO operations would be easily accomplished, but they are on the opposite end of the spectrum, the receiving end of mostly Germany's control of the EU with London preferring to sit in the shadows and France doing their usual BS routine... all of them playing the same old empire games... nothing has changed, because their cousins here in the States have kept that game going, only substituting ourselves in the leadership role with our 'friends' in Zion of course leading a helping hand. ;)

The laughs were bound to end as the date of departure approached, the smiling PM routine got a little old with people committing suicide in the streets, Tsipras didn't play that hand well, and in the end has to play the only one left to him, the 'take it to the people' routine, which will accomplish much of nothing... his options are really only leaving the whole EU/NATO puppet show, as they will never be given a good role and playing the idiot all the time is never fun for long... so now the reality check card needs to be pulled out and played... explain to the German/French/British people that just like in the States, your govt is bailing out your odios banking debts but unwilling to admit it to you... time for everyone to grow up... or not, though the latter presents a different set of problems, but then change is good, right? 'Fun' at least! ;) THe only thing I have a little trouble understanding is why are all the Greeks just now standing in the ATM lines? Did they too assume that the 'fix' would arrive at the last moment like some Hollywood movie? Seems the stock and bond markets thought the same... funny, but interesting. That wedge pattern had to break down soon anyway and now it has an excuse... there's always an excuse for everything... as no one likes to take the blame.. very rare that is... and usually political suicide... Greece needs to return to the old 6 month dictator role ... if they can find one... same problem in Guatemala it seems.
 
Eboard10 said:
Looks like Greek banks will be closed on Monday and the government is going to implement capital controls though they haven't yet specified what kind of controls will be imposed. :(

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33305019
Click to expand...

So this is how it start's, I hope the Greek people can hold out the week.
 
Eboard10 said:
Looks like Greek banks will be closed on Monday and the government is going to implement capital controls though they haven't yet specified what kind of controls will be imposed. :(

_http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-33305019
Click to expand...

Alexis Tsipras made a speech to inform the public tonight, I just watched it. Here's his speech below, I used google translate and fixed it a bit. Don't believe everything you read, remember that the media already waged war against the Greek government, and now that the referendum was announced, it's just going to meet new heights.

"Yesterday's decision of the Euro Group, not to approve the request by the Greek government for a few days extension of the program so as the people of Greece can decide with the referendum on the ultimatum of the lenders, is an unprecedented act of denying the right of a sovereign people in democratic selection. The highest and most sacred right of expression.

This decision led today the European Central Bank not to increase the liquidity of Greek banks and forced the Bank of Greece to propose the activation of bank holiday and containment measures in bank withdrawals. It is now more than clear that this decision has no other objective other than to blackmail the will of the Greek people and to impede the smooth democratic referendum process.

They will not succeed. These moves will bring the opposite results.

They will further irk the Greek people to their choice to reject the unacceptable memorandum proposals and ultimatums by the lenders.

But one thing remains certain: the refusal of the short extension and attempting to cancel a leading democratic process, is an act of attack and maximum embarrassment to the democratic tradition of Europe.

For this reason I sent today a new short prorogation request, this time to the President of the European Council and the 18 heads of state of the Eurozone, and the heads of the ECB, the European Commission and the European Parliament. I expect an immediate reaction to an essential democratic demand.

They are the only ones who can as soon as possible, even tonight, reverse the decision of Euro Group and to enable the European Central Bank to restore the flow of liquidity of banks. However, in any case, what is needed in the coming days is sobriety and patience.

The deposits of citizens in Greek banks is absolutely assured.

The same is guaranteed for the payment of salaries and pensions.

Any difficulties appeared will be addressed calmly and decisively.

The calmer we face the difficulties, the sooner we will overcome and the milder will be the consequences.

We have the opportunity today to prove to ourselves and the world that justice can win. We have once again the historical opportunity to send in Europe and the world a message of hope and dignity.

And remember: this critical hour in which we all measure up to the stature of our history, our only fear is fear. We will not let fear win over us.

We will make it.

The dignity of the Greeks against extortion and injustice will send a message of hope and pride throughout Europe. "
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Ominous feelings about the whole thing. If they somehow manage to pull a Crimea, that'll be a miracle. The EU can't afford to lose Greece, you can imagine they'll go above and beyond, even if it means getting rid of the current government and having one more in-line with EU 'lets screw over Greece' ideology.
 
luke wilson said:
Ominous feelings about the whole thing. If they somehow manage to pull a Crimea, that'll be a miracle. The EU can't afford to lose Greece, you can imagine they'll go above and beyond, even if it means getting rid of the current government and having one more in-line with EU 'lets screw over Greece' ideology.
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Well I'm hopeful, the PTB have 7 days to launch a campaign against the Greek people, to make the greek people give in to fear, I can't see it going the way they want, it's going on too long, regardless this will have big implications and will in the end if it passes be a death blow to the euro and the empire, it's horrible to imagine the what the implications will be, and the suffering it will cause but I think it needs to happen, and will happen eventually, The Greek people still have to make their choice, I'd know what I would choose, but we'll have to wait and see, and I can see the propaganda over the next few days reaching epic proportions.
 
Seaniebawn said:
luke wilson said:
Ominous feelings about the whole thing. If they somehow manage to pull a Crimea, that'll be a miracle. The EU can't afford to lose Greece, you can imagine they'll go above and beyond, even if it means getting rid of the current government and having one more in-line with EU 'lets screw over Greece' ideology.
Click to expand...

Well I'm hopeful, the PTB have 7 days to launch a campaign against the Greek people, to make the greek people give in to fear, I can't see it going the way they want, it's going on too long, regardless this will have big implications and will in the end if it passes be a death blow to the euro and the empire, it's horrible to imagine the what the implications will be, and the suffering it will cause but I think it needs to happen, and will happen eventually, The Greek people still have to make their choice, I'd know what I would choose, but we'll have to wait and see, and I can see the propaganda over the next few days reaching epic proportions.
Click to expand...

Remember the referendum in Scotland. They can hack votes...
 
luke wilson said:
Seaniebawn said:
luke wilson said:
Ominous feelings about the whole thing. If they somehow manage to pull a Crimea, that'll be a miracle. The EU can't afford to lose Greece, you can imagine they'll go above and beyond, even if it means getting rid of the current government and having one more in-line with EU 'lets screw over Greece' ideology.
Click to expand...

Well I'm hopeful, the PTB have 7 days to launch a campaign against the Greek people, to make the greek people give in to fear, I can't see it going the way they want, it's going on too long, regardless this will have big implications and will in the end if it passes be a death blow to the euro and the empire, it's horrible to imagine the what the implications will be, and the suffering it will cause but I think it needs to happen, and will happen eventually, The Greek people still have to make their choice, I'd know what I would choose, but we'll have to wait and see, and I can see the propaganda over the next few days reaching epic proportions.
Click to expand...

Remember the referendum in Scotland. They can hack votes...
Click to expand...

I'm well aware, but they had months to plan that, they have a week, I'm not sure they can turn it around in such a short time
 
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