Testing food intolerances - antibodies

Chu

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I couldn't find anything specific about this on the forum, so I'd better ask.

Recently, a good dermatologist who is pretty well informed regarding food intolerances, recommended that we checked out this website. (It's in French)

_http://www.intolsante.com

Basically, what they do is take a blood sample (you get a kit, get blood taken out and send it to them), and test for IgE antibodies. You can test up to 270 different foods, spices and drinks. Supposedly, they then send you the results and give you the exact type of intolerance you have for each food (4 levels, from being absolutely intolerant and a food to avoid completely, to those foods that are best removed form the diet for a short while and then reintroduced if necessary or wanted).

For those who have autoimmune disorders and for whom it's difficult to know exactly what foods they can't tolerate (mild intolerance, delayed reactions, etc.), I was wondering if it might be worthwhile. But it's quite expensive. So, does anyone know if this method is reliable?

I've read some good reviews from people who did this and used to suffer from Crohn's diseases, chronic inflammation and a whole range of issues. But you never know, they could have been paid by the lab to give good reviews.

Thanks!
 
Re: Testing food intolerances - IgE antibodies

I had extensive blood testing done for free in Calgary, Canada through an organization called pure North Synergy. Everything free. I started a thread about it awhile back. I couldnt figure out why it was free, and continues to be for the homeless. They are medical doctors, and homeopath , naturalist type doctors working together. Very interesting, but it is no longer free. I think they were creating a database to become a leader in medicine, or some such thing. They even sent my breath away to be smelled by dogs that would supposedly be able to alert if you will even develop cancer in the next few years. Well, i wont go into it too much,as i am not trying to advertize for them. My point was the blood tests. They told me everything. It was amazing. From levels of heavy metals to allergies. I was informed that i had a corn sensitivity. I was having chelation done through them when i moved away. I wanted to be treated again on a visit back, but they needed a blood test to determine my levels. They sent me a package wherein i was to blot a drop of blood and send it back. With this they were supposed to be able to tell my mercury, and lead levels. They always seemed to be pretty concurrent with all the latest developments that i would find on the forum. They are even campaigning right now to have the daily allowance limit raised for vitamin d. I have yet to find anything nefarious in their methods, and so would still reccomend it for anyone in the area. If i had stayed, and done a better job with my diet, they were even going to use me as a sort of test subject when it came to the paleo diet. I just found it amazing the things they can tell from a little bit of blood.
 
Re: Testing food intolerances - IgE antibodies

I think this image will help clarify:

Allergy_Graphic.png


Testing only for IgE misses the other immune components involved in food intolerances which may play a bigger role in disease and/or food intolerances.

More info at http://www.sott.net/article/297880-Gluten-intolerance-and-asthma

There are other responses in the immune system that are not well understood, so it is not listed. Still, the above diagram illustrates what part of the immune system is tested and what is not.

Hope this helps!
 
Re: Testing food intolerances - IgE antibodies

I have a question for you then Gaby. How, or what were they testing to tel me that i have a sensitivity, (not an allergy) to corn?
 
Thanks for your testimony, Davey! Very interesting.

And thanks Gaby. That's very clear. My bad, it's actually IgGs they test (title of the thread modified accordingly). But I still don't know, is it a reliable test, or is it something that changes regularly, and not worthy of testing, really? Because from what I understand, these antibodies may not have been there to begin with, but one develops these intolerances with time. So does that mean that they can also "go away", together with the intolerance, if one stops eating the culprit foods for a while, or do we always keep these antibodies? Sorry for being dense here...

And what is the relationship between these intolerances and epigenetics? Can these antibodies generate gene mutations? (I'm asking that because in the case of Hydradenits Suppurativa, for example, I remember reading something about an experiment where some genetic mutations were discovered with time apart from the gene which is supposed to be mutated already from birth, and is one of the alleged (they're not sure) culprits.
 
Chu said:
And thanks Gaby. That's very clear. My bad, it's actually IgGs they test (title of the thread modified accordingly). But I still don't know, is it a reliable test, or is it something that changes regularly, and not worthy of testing, really? Because from what I understand, these antibodies may not have been there to begin with, but one develops these intolerances with time. So does that mean that they can also "go away", together with the intolerance, if one stops eating the culprit foods for a while, or do we always keep these antibodies? Sorry for being dense here...

And what is the relationship between these intolerances and epigenetics? Can these antibodies generate gene mutations? (I'm asking that because in the case of Hydradenits Suppurativa, for example, I remember reading something about an experiment where some genetic mutations were discovered with time apart from the gene which is supposed to be mutated already from birth, and is one of the alleged (they're not sure) culprits.

IgG is much better, but it has a half life of about one month or perhaps a bit more, I'm not sure. Definitely not years. It also has at least three subclasses: IgG1, IgG2, IgG3. Perhaps this is why the test is so expensive.

As I understand it, if the diet has been clean, it is not worth testing antibodies for food sensitivity. Even though some memory may lie within the antibody, the activity should be silenced if no food culprits are eaten. In other words, the antibody is not triggered even though it holds a memory of a food sensitivity.

The immune system is related with gene mutations. As I understand it, it would be something like this:

Epigenetic factor exposure in early childhood or womb ------> epigenetic changes ----> gene mutates ------> altered gene triggers the immune system in a unique "pathological" way in response to a perceived assault from the environment in order to defend the body.

Let me quote a summary I wrote awhile ago, see if it helps clarify (or not :/):

There is a genetic predisposition where HLA-DQ genes located on chromosome 6 makes you vulnerable to gluten intolerance. HLA stands for the human leukocyte antigen (HLA) system, which is also known as the major histocompatibility complex (MHC). The important thing to know about this system is that it contains a large number of genes related to the function of the immune system.

This brings the subject of the fixed genetic myth... We now understand that it is really the epigenetic factors, the ones that are beyond the control of the gene, that are determining how DNA will be interpreted, translated and expressed. It is the epigenetic factors that are determining which genes will turn on and which ones will shut-off. And it is the diet and our environment along with its tons of pollutants the ones influencing the epigenetic factors. That is, our food sources and our environmental exposure affect our DNA and its expression. As Sayer Ji (2010) writes,

[N]utritional deficiencies of selenium, zinc, riboflavin, vitamin E, etc. in the womb or early in life, may “trigger” the faulty expression or folding patterns of the Cystic Fibrosis Transmembrane Conductance Regulator (CFTR) gene in Cystic Fibrosis which might otherwise have avoided epigenetic activation. This would explain why it is possible to live into one’s late seventies with this condition, as was the case for Katherine Shores (1925-2004). The implications of these findings are rather extraordinary: epigenetic and not genetic factors are primary in determining disease outcome. Even if we exclude the possibility of reversing certain monogenic diseases, the basic lesson from the post-Genomic era is that we can’t blame our DNA for causing disease. Rather, it may have more to do with what we choose to expose our DNA to.

In view of this information, Sayer argues how celiac disease is an expression of a natural, protective response to the ingestion of something that the human body was not designed to consume. He adds:

If we view celiac disease not as an unhealthy response to a healthy food, but as a healthy response to an unhealthy food, classical CD symptoms like diarrhea may make more sense. Diarrhea can be the body’s way to reduce the duration of exposure to a toxin or pathogen, and villous atrophy can be the body’s way of preventing the absorption and hence, the systemic effects of chronic exposure to wheat.

Sayer's article can be found here: http://www.greenmedinfo.com/page/dark-side-wheat-new-perspectives-celiac-disease-wheat-intolerance-sayer-ji

Perhaps Hydradenits Suppurativa is an acute way to detoxify the glands or body from a toxin or food sensitivity. What triggers the immune response or antibodies is the big question.

Some antibodies turn against other antibodies in certain autoimmune conditions. An example is what is called "rheumatoid factor" measured in lab tests where IgM turns against IgG. Under normal circumstances, antibodies is something our bodies naturally produce and they do not turn against us. What epigenetic factors are turning them to misfire or create disease?

The immune system is very complex and some admit there are many more responses researched and not published in textbooks, hence, not measured in lab tests.

The HLA system and its relation with both genes and immune system is very interesting. Possibly there is more to it than we currently know... or that I can remember.
 
Re: Testing food intolerances - IgE antibodies

davey72 said:
I have a question for you then Gaby. How, or what were they testing to tel me that i have a sensitivity, (not an allergy) to corn?

Perhaps it was IgG tests. In the image, what is listed under "acute" is considered an allergy. Food intolerances and sensitivities are listed under the section of "delayed hypersensitivity":

Allergy_Graphic.png


There is a big profitable lab market out there, specially in America. I think it is a good guide, but not 100% reliable. The immune system is really very complex. What if a IgG food sensitivity test is negative but the food culprit is still triggering an alternating cascade or pathway in the immune system that doesn't involve IgG?

Some celiacs don't have antibodies for celiac disease, yet they show all the typical damage done by gluten in celiac disease which is later reversed when gluten is removed. It is tricky.
 
I think this test is probably better than no test at all, at least it gives you an idea of what you might be allergic to. But as Gaby pointed out it's only part of the picture. A positive result is probably a good indicator for an allergy, but a negative result doesn't rule out an allergy.

I think another avenue is to do some testing with a competent kinesiologist, as they often can tell you if and how strongly you are sensitive to specific foods.
 
Re: Testing food intolerances - IgE antibodies

Gaby said:
There is a big profitable lab market out there, specially in America. I think it is a good guide, but not 100% reliable. The immune system is really very complex. What if a IgG food sensitivity test is negative but the food culprit is still triggering an alternating cascade or pathway in the immune system that doesn't involve IgG?

FWIW, there were a couple of guests on the Depression Sessions who discussed these tests -- I don't have much in the notes I took, but here's what I do have (which seem to agree with what Gaby says above):

Corey Schuler said:
Food sensitivity testing: doesn’t recommend IgG anymore. Cyrex labs is ahead of the game, but there are still false negatives and positives. Elimination diets are the best.
Jill Carnahan said:
Food sensitivity tests: IgG 4 is not sensitive enough. US Biotech is accurate – a small company that does IgG, IgE, IgA. Cyrex does multiple foods (array #10).

Gaby said:
The immune system is related with gene mutations. As I understand it, it would be something like this:

Epigenetic factor exposure in early childhood or womb ------> epigenetic changes ----> gene mutates ------> altered gene triggers the immune system in a unique "pathological" way in response to a perceived assault from the environment in order to defend the body.

When my family had genetic tests done last year, although most of the mutations in the second and third generation appeared to be inherited, there were two instances where they couldn't have been -- neither parent carried the mutation, yet it arose "spontaneously" in the child. An environmental trigger of some sort could explain that.

Gaby said:
Perhaps Hydradenits Suppurativa is an acute way to detoxify the glands or body from a toxin or food sensitivity. What triggers the immune response or antibodies is the big question.

Some antibodies turn against other antibodies in certain autoimmune conditions. An example is what is called "rheumatoid factor" measured in lab tests where IgM turns against IgG. Under normal circumstances, antibodies is something our bodies naturally produce and they do not turn against us. What epigenetic factors are turning them to misfire or create disease?

I want to try not to fall into "when you've got a hammer, everything looks like a nail" thinking, but there may be some similarities with information posted on the mycoplasma thread. I noticed in her recent post that petite femme posted this:

petite femme said:
I recently went to the doctor, just to finally be rid of it. The doctor said it was an anal abscess, with a fistulous. He also said that this was a common complication with chrones. The doctor put me on a very strong antibiotic regiment for two weeks taking, cipro and metronidazol. This just made me sick. I took those for about a week, before I went back and said I just couldn't do it. Was exhausted, weak with diarrhea and nausea. My food was just running right through me. It also had no effect on the abscess.

She may be describing a rather bad herxheimer reaction; in her book (p. 220) Katherine Poehlmann mentions Crohn's disease as being another condition that may be linked to infection with a cell-wall deficient bacteria (Mycobacterium avium paratuberculosis). (She also has a brief discussion of IgE and IgG tests on p. 181).

Poehlmann also discusses a link between microbial infection and genetic mutation in a section (How Microbes Spread) starting on p. 106, where she discusses things like plasmids, transposons and integrons (genes that facilitate the integration of microbial DNA into any of the host organism's genomes). She says (p. 112) that "[w]hen antibiotics dissolve the cell walls, plasmids from one organism's L-forms can more readily be traded with those of another, possibly different, organism." So microbial infection seems to be another possible source of genetic change, which could have deleterious consequences for the host.
 
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