Opinions
- Thread starter Laura
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The thread is about the nature of opinion. Not women kings hunting in a forest. Of course that is your opinion so it's tangently related to this thread, but still it seems way out of place, ummm, off track.OCKHAM said:
What is an inner core? Sounds like more word salad to me.
So what's this have to do with women being kings hunting in a forest and women feeding off men? I really fail to follow what you're writing. Is this all meant to lead into a way to promote Douglas? What are you trying to sell here?OCKHAM said:
Here's the science of the "power of opinions" featured by:
# Propaganda by Edward Bernays
# Public Opinion by Walter Lippmann
# Public Relations by Edward L. Bernays
# Propaganda Techniques by Henry T. Conserva
# Propaganda by Jacques Ellul
# Crystallizing Public Opinion by Edward L. Bernays
Book Description
1923. Bernays, regarded by many as the father of public relations, has tried to set down in this book the broad principles that govern the new profession of public relations counsel. Contents: Part I-Scope and Functions: The Scope of the Public Relations Counsel; The Public Relations Counsel; the Increased and Increasing Importance of the Profession; and The Function of a Special Pleader. Part II-The Group and the Herd: What Constitutes Public Opinion?; Is Public Opinion Stubborn or Malleable; The Interaction of Public Opinion with the Forces that Help Make It; The Power of Interacting Forces that Go to Make Up Public Opinion; An Understanding of the Fundamentals of Public Motivation is Necessary to the Work of the Public Relations Counsel; The Group and Herd are the Basic Mechanisms of Public Change; and The Application of These Principles. Part III-Technique and Method: The Public Can Be Reached Only Through Established Mediums of Communication; The Interlapping Group Formations of Society, the Continuous Shifting of Groups, Changing Conditions and the Flexibility of Human Nature are all Aids to the Counsel on Public Relations; and An Outline of Methods Practicable in Modifying the Point of View of a Group. Part IV-Ethical Relations: A Consideration of the Press and Other Mediums of Communication in Their Relation to the Public Relations Counsel; and His Obligations to the Public as a Special Pleader. See other titles by this author available from Kessinger Publishing.
# Propaganda by Edward Bernays
# Public Opinion by Walter Lippmann
# Public Relations by Edward L. Bernays
# Propaganda Techniques by Henry T. Conserva
# Propaganda by Jacques Ellul
# Crystallizing Public Opinion by Edward L. Bernays
Book Description
1923. Bernays, regarded by many as the father of public relations, has tried to set down in this book the broad principles that govern the new profession of public relations counsel. Contents: Part I-Scope and Functions: The Scope of the Public Relations Counsel; The Public Relations Counsel; the Increased and Increasing Importance of the Profession; and The Function of a Special Pleader. Part II-The Group and the Herd: What Constitutes Public Opinion?; Is Public Opinion Stubborn or Malleable; The Interaction of Public Opinion with the Forces that Help Make It; The Power of Interacting Forces that Go to Make Up Public Opinion; An Understanding of the Fundamentals of Public Motivation is Necessary to the Work of the Public Relations Counsel; The Group and Herd are the Basic Mechanisms of Public Change; and The Application of These Principles. Part III-Technique and Method: The Public Can Be Reached Only Through Established Mediums of Communication; The Interlapping Group Formations of Society, the Continuous Shifting of Groups, Changing Conditions and the Flexibility of Human Nature are all Aids to the Counsel on Public Relations; and An Outline of Methods Practicable in Modifying the Point of View of a Group. Part IV-Ethical Relations: A Consideration of the Press and Other Mediums of Communication in Their Relation to the Public Relations Counsel; and His Obligations to the Public as a Special Pleader. See other titles by this author available from Kessinger Publishing.
You "averted" another person?OCKHAM said:
Why is it that an interaction with another human being is perceived as "disaster" or necessary to avoid? Is your "focus" so delicate that it cannot be maintained in an interaction?
I dunno, this is a very strange sentence that really makes no sense to me.
You have an "aversion disorder"? Can you explain what it is and how it afflicts you?OCKHAM said:
Well?OCKHAM said:
You have an "aversion disorder" and headaches? Are the headaches related to the aversion disorder? Do both have to do with something like emotional pressure that you feel when you are expected by others to communicate in comprehensible sentences? If so, perhaps this forum is not for you?OCKHAM said:
Now, that is just plain bizarre. Do you understand how bizarre it is? I am as capable as the next person of communicating with metaphor, but talk about your mixed metaphors! Basically, you are saying that a man is supposed to decide how a woman is supposed to feel and tell her how she is supposed to feel and then she is supposed to feel that way and "emote" according to plan for the man, who then does what? At least that is how it translates when one diagrams the sentence. And what is up with the word "engulf"? I mean, that is just plain Freudian creepy!OCKHAM said:
Again, really creepy word images being formed here. Do you realize how bizarre these images are?OCKHAM said:
Suited to whom?OCKHAM said:
I'm sorry, but no, it is not a more suited paradigm by any stretch of the imagination.
I often wonder why people choose their forum names and yours is particularly interesting because I've always been fond of William of Ockham.
From Wikipedia:
In short, it sometimes seems that people select their forum names to express what they WISH for, not what actually represents reality.
OCKHAM
Jedi
Laura, I apologize, I was trying to answer her question. Aversion is like turning away from her, or avoiding her, in order to continue focus on the question you had asked me. She mentioned it to you and I thanked you for your comments.
The original conversation kind of got lost in all that. I wanted to interact with Arkmod, but the conversation was that of such, it would have got lost even more, so I told her I would come back to it, and haven't had a chance.
The headaches were from a tooth I had pulled a few days earlier, right next to a day I had a scaling done, so the headaches were real, but not related to the averted conversation interaction, I simply was trying to guide, which is gone.
The answer to her question was I felt there was a pull away from victor, or away from Lisa, rather. I did have to read at least 30 pages to do that before answering her question.
A man should never tell a woman how to feel, he should understand emotions so that when he expresses them to her, she understands them, because I feel women are delicate in that area.
A woman deserves a man who has a better handle of emotions, so the relationship works. She would engulf the fact a man had this much appreciation for her.
Does this help explain?
The original conversation kind of got lost in all that. I wanted to interact with Arkmod, but the conversation was that of such, it would have got lost even more, so I told her I would come back to it, and haven't had a chance.
The headaches were from a tooth I had pulled a few days earlier, right next to a day I had a scaling done, so the headaches were real, but not related to the averted conversation interaction, I simply was trying to guide, which is gone.
The answer to her question was I felt there was a pull away from victor, or away from Lisa, rather. I did have to read at least 30 pages to do that before answering her question.
A man should never tell a woman how to feel, he should understand emotions so that when he expresses them to her, she understands them, because I feel women are delicate in that area.
A woman deserves a man who has a better handle of emotions, so the relationship works. She would engulf the fact a man had this much appreciation for her.
Does this help explain?
H
Hildegarda
Guest
///I often wonder why people choose their forum names and yours is particularly interesting because I've always been fond of William of Ockham.///
This is interesting -- I, on the contrary, never liked William of Ockham much, even though he was a brilliant scholar and a titan of a person.
His maxim, 'entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity', emerged a sa result of a long line of dispute with Aquinas and other scholars, and was a final nail in the coffin of platonist tradition in teology and philosophy. The "entities" he is talking about are the platonic forms. Denying their existence leads to two things. Either God/Creator is put smack in the material world here and now, as happened in the Protestant tradition (because of this, some scholars do call William of Ockham 'the first Protestant', funny enough). Or, one ends up completely disconnecting from and denying the existence of the reality behind the veil, as it happened in the materialist/atheist thought.
Those latter people are also successfully misusing the Occam's razor in debunking any hypothesis that threatens the status quo, from the UFO existence to various political conspiracies. As in, 'why bring in the UFOs if the camera glitches explain everything?' True, it is a question of carefully analyzing the data without prejudice. This transfers an idea from the domain of assumptions to a domain of plausible explanations. However, IMO the larger truth is that Occam's razor is a tool of a philosophical dispute and can help polishing one's thought process, but not in much more. Because from its obviousness it doesn't at all follow that nature/Cosmos, in its intricate diversity, is also required to adhere to the simplest solution. If it were, we probably would still be one-celled organisms in the primordial soup :)
This is interesting -- I, on the contrary, never liked William of Ockham much, even though he was a brilliant scholar and a titan of a person.
His maxim, 'entities should not be multiplied beyond necessity', emerged a sa result of a long line of dispute with Aquinas and other scholars, and was a final nail in the coffin of platonist tradition in teology and philosophy. The "entities" he is talking about are the platonic forms. Denying their existence leads to two things. Either God/Creator is put smack in the material world here and now, as happened in the Protestant tradition (because of this, some scholars do call William of Ockham 'the first Protestant', funny enough). Or, one ends up completely disconnecting from and denying the existence of the reality behind the veil, as it happened in the materialist/atheist thought.
Those latter people are also successfully misusing the Occam's razor in debunking any hypothesis that threatens the status quo, from the UFO existence to various political conspiracies. As in, 'why bring in the UFOs if the camera glitches explain everything?' True, it is a question of carefully analyzing the data without prejudice. This transfers an idea from the domain of assumptions to a domain of plausible explanations. However, IMO the larger truth is that Occam's razor is a tool of a philosophical dispute and can help polishing one's thought process, but not in much more. Because from its obviousness it doesn't at all follow that nature/Cosmos, in its intricate diversity, is also required to adhere to the simplest solution. If it were, we probably would still be one-celled organisms in the primordial soup :)
OCKHAM
Jedi
Hi Trinity and Laura,
I see Trinity got in the middle here, what joy! I got your message.
William was funny, Trinty. When I studied him, I think I said, "Who the hell is this guy", and then, "I just can't figure him out, what does it [matter]? Oh nooo?"
His purpose means more to me than you might imagine, although this now confirmed; a primer of primers or two, maybe? I feel like I'm [going home as versus leaving] when I back out at the beginning and make Contact. "Roger: That 1215 is a go but they can only do it at 3po", the little space voice says.
A developed human entity only multiples, they forgot the retraction after the upload. Look how they retract in seeds and think about Isacc Newton more because he was the key. My grand-mother's maiden name was Newton. So I have never been able to get him out of my mind. Her great grandmother's name was Macka Mariah Wee, a full blooded Cherokee.
Isacc saw numbers as [involved] in understanding the Bible and God's plan for history. I have eaten those numbers like [candy] for 33 years. At 17, I chose this path for a reason.
Trinity, you remind me of the fact that our life is really just a love story, not of the body, of the mind. The matrix changed me, and it seems I wasn't alone.
We need so much support and not so much being dragged down. Everyone, everyone is subject to these slippery slimy hounds in our heads. I think this is why our hair goes everywhere.
In time, especially for 3 or so years ahead, we will be so challenged just to survive. We must be a white sword in the NIGHT. Laugh at them but more at yourself.
There is a lot of soaking to do to win in this world of worried words. That absorption needs a higher level googling around in our minds. That takes time. We can't worry about money so much. I have lived for 17 years without bowing to the beast. I said, "Feed me or let me die". She feeds well enough. I feel a wave today, and a sign of things to come.
We really must look for the heart.
I must go now, I'll be back some day and you'll know when. I am not dead, I am alive. I love this place. Why have we let everyone dump the child's mind away, yet the child still lives in the haze? There is too much work to be done for them.
In 3 years I'll be 53, or is that 35 in another time. I love you all.
For my Laura's and Trinity.
I see Trinity got in the middle here, what joy! I got your message.
William was funny, Trinty. When I studied him, I think I said, "Who the hell is this guy", and then, "I just can't figure him out, what does it [matter]? Oh nooo?"
His purpose means more to me than you might imagine, although this now confirmed; a primer of primers or two, maybe? I feel like I'm [going home as versus leaving] when I back out at the beginning and make Contact. "Roger: That 1215 is a go but they can only do it at 3po", the little space voice says.
A developed human entity only multiples, they forgot the retraction after the upload. Look how they retract in seeds and think about Isacc Newton more because he was the key. My grand-mother's maiden name was Newton. So I have never been able to get him out of my mind. Her great grandmother's name was Macka Mariah Wee, a full blooded Cherokee.
Isacc saw numbers as [involved] in understanding the Bible and God's plan for history. I have eaten those numbers like [candy] for 33 years. At 17, I chose this path for a reason.
Trinity, you remind me of the fact that our life is really just a love story, not of the body, of the mind. The matrix changed me, and it seems I wasn't alone.
We need so much support and not so much being dragged down. Everyone, everyone is subject to these slippery slimy hounds in our heads. I think this is why our hair goes everywhere.
In time, especially for 3 or so years ahead, we will be so challenged just to survive. We must be a white sword in the NIGHT. Laugh at them but more at yourself.
There is a lot of soaking to do to win in this world of worried words. That absorption needs a higher level googling around in our minds. That takes time. We can't worry about money so much. I have lived for 17 years without bowing to the beast. I said, "Feed me or let me die". She feeds well enough. I feel a wave today, and a sign of things to come.
We really must look for the heart.
I must go now, I'll be back some day and you'll know when. I am not dead, I am alive. I love this place. Why have we let everyone dump the child's mind away, yet the child still lives in the haze? There is too much work to be done for them.
In 3 years I'll be 53, or is that 35 in another time. I love you all.
For my Laura's and Trinity.
Ruth
The Living Force
Has it ever occured to you that men and women are of the same species and that either of them may be capable of doing these things regardless of their individual sex?OCKHAM said:
Some of us possibly have had multiple lives where we could have either a male of a female physical vehicle. Some of us may even have a preference for one over the other.
The world (it seems to me) is not in balance because it is STS and that does not represent balance (only the unbalanced part of the big picture). I think you may need to do something about that headache in order to improve 'vision'.
Why does she need to "engulf" any emotions that are "supplied" by anyone? What is the purpose?OCKHAM said:
Why does a woman need to feed anything to the man? What balance will this accomplish? Why does the man need to "eat" a "black sun"? If you're speaking in metaphors, you've lost me completely. How do women "rule the world"? Why are they "kings of men"? Why do you not explain yourself clearly and use any data that supports anything you say, or even provide reasons for anything you say? I'm really confused.
N
noise
Guest
I started reading on this topic a few weeks ago. I mostly spent my time reading the first page. I think it was 4-5 days just trying to focus and clearly get what the various authors who Laura quoted were getting at. So I made a self-discovery. Anyhow when I first started reading it I wanted to quote a poem I wrote listening to a couple argue. This was back in March 1993. I was 25 at the time. I'm offering it as entertainment as I recall the bulk of it is more how I was making analysis of an argument. Too bad it did not sink in then - not that it fully has now.
Maybe it should be framed in the context of how ponerological mind-sets/programming works, osit, IMO. :) Anyhow I just wanted to share it as it kept coming to mind as I was reading this topic.
Opinions
Push and push opinion shove it down one's throat, this is how it is, my truth already wrote.
Harmony replaced by what I'm telling you, my opinion is the truth am I getting through?
Your perception combats mine on a small insignificant fact,
but I'll change your views to my way in one argumental act.
It's got to be done my way as a child said,
And if you don't conform we'll argue till your dead.
My greed with being right will not conform your way
and when I'm done shoving my truth you won't be able to say;
That's just one perception,
Which may just be deception,
That is just one view,
who knows if it's even true.
I'm not sure if sharing this was a valid thing to do under this topic - the opening rhyme just kept popping up as I read the posts.
Maybe it should be framed in the context of how ponerological mind-sets/programming works, osit, IMO. :) Anyhow I just wanted to share it as it kept coming to mind as I was reading this topic.
Opinions
Push and push opinion shove it down one's throat, this is how it is, my truth already wrote.
Harmony replaced by what I'm telling you, my opinion is the truth am I getting through?
Your perception combats mine on a small insignificant fact,
but I'll change your views to my way in one argumental act.
It's got to be done my way as a child said,
And if you don't conform we'll argue till your dead.
My greed with being right will not conform your way
and when I'm done shoving my truth you won't be able to say;
That's just one perception,
Which may just be deception,
That is just one view,
who knows if it's even true.
I'm not sure if sharing this was a valid thing to do under this topic - the opening rhyme just kept popping up as I read the posts.
Some relevant bits from Kazimierz Dabrowski (1967):
Opinions .... very powerful, influential things. Borderlining brainwashing almost.
IE A friend of mine was told that she was fat, ugly and looked like Shrek. Of course, I told her not to worry about it, as its just someone's opinion. (It may not have even been the person's opinion, they were more than likely just bored out of their brain and wanted some attention or something). My friend is not fat, ugly and does not look like Shrek, yet it struck a cord within her that made her get really upset. I'd like to call the cord "self-conscienceness" a sub category of "insecurity".
Opinions are very powerful, influential and if you aren't aware of it you'll find yourself in a heated argument with somebody over something. You get all worked up, some neg entity uses the opportunity to suck it all up, and really its just a waste of time because most people, with their egos and what not, only want to hear what they wanna hear. My dad is the same -- he will not have a bar of the 911 conspiracy, believes that it all happened exactly the way Fox News said it did. I try to point out the other side of it, told him to watch Loose Change and he just said it was "all a load of cr.ap, how do you know that it isnt the Taliban's propaganda?" Or something. He got angry about it, mega angry, which spread like a disease and made MYSELF angry. So these days I tend to stay away from him when he gets all macho-opinionated.
Everyone has an opinion about everything, no doubt. They don't have to be dangerous or whatever, just don't let one's opinion consume you. Better yet, don't let your own opinion consume you. Be open to change.
IE A friend of mine was told that she was fat, ugly and looked like Shrek. Of course, I told her not to worry about it, as its just someone's opinion. (It may not have even been the person's opinion, they were more than likely just bored out of their brain and wanted some attention or something). My friend is not fat, ugly and does not look like Shrek, yet it struck a cord within her that made her get really upset. I'd like to call the cord "self-conscienceness" a sub category of "insecurity".
Opinions are very powerful, influential and if you aren't aware of it you'll find yourself in a heated argument with somebody over something. You get all worked up, some neg entity uses the opportunity to suck it all up, and really its just a waste of time because most people, with their egos and what not, only want to hear what they wanna hear. My dad is the same -- he will not have a bar of the 911 conspiracy, believes that it all happened exactly the way Fox News said it did. I try to point out the other side of it, told him to watch Loose Change and he just said it was "all a load of cr.ap, how do you know that it isnt the Taliban's propaganda?" Or something. He got angry about it, mega angry, which spread like a disease and made MYSELF angry. So these days I tend to stay away from him when he gets all macho-opinionated.
Everyone has an opinion about everything, no doubt. They don't have to be dangerous or whatever, just don't let one's opinion consume you. Better yet, don't let your own opinion consume you. Be open to change.
Egoism, Narcissism, Psychopathy, Ponerology, Totalitarianism, Tyrannism, Nepotism, Fascism......, we are open forum in 3d STS world, I would like to think that we could be excluded of these influences, most important is to be aware of them and to know how to deal with these energies, KNOWLEDGE protect us:).
turtlemayhem
The Force is Strong With This One
quote - This is an interesting observation that catches my eye. How often do very
narcissistic people assert "well, that's YOUR opinion, and this is MY
opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion."
What the heck IS an opinion, anyway? -quote-
Is that your opinion then? idiot?
narcissistic people assert "well, that's YOUR opinion, and this is MY
opinion, and everybody is entitled to their own opinion."
What the heck IS an opinion, anyway? -quote-
Is that your opinion then? idiot?
