The New Age 'Enlightenment Business' (Deeksha Oneness)

Anders · Nov 11, 2006

Part 1 of 6

The New Age scene of Love and Light has over the years had many amazing new inventions. Just when you think it can"t get any worse, then up pops another one. It recent years there has been the Avatar movement of creating your own reality, the Satsang movement with the "here now" tilt and the latest to top it all of is the Deeksha movement.

I will go in to further detail about this latest movement later but wish to first define what a cargo cult is:
According to Wikepedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cargo_cult said:
A cargo cult is any of a group of religious movements in Melanesia, in the Southwestern Pacific, which believe that manufactured western goods ('cargo') have been created by ancestral spirits and intended for Melanesian people. Cult members believe that white people, however, have unfairly gained control of these objects. Cargo cults thus focus on overcoming what they perceive as undue 'white' influences by conducting rituals similar to the white behavior they have observed, presuming that the ancestors will at last recognize their own and send them cargo. Thus a characteristic feature of Cargo Cults is the belief that spiritual agents will at some future time give much valuable cargo and desirable manufactured products to the cult members.

In essence it is materially poor people, who cling to the belief of a movement that the "god/spirits" in the future will send them all the material things that they see the western/white people having.

When I first heard about this in anthropology years ago I was amazed that some people could be so naive and gullible. I think this was a common reaction amongst fellow students. Little did I realize that I myself was emerged in a cargo cult - namely the New Age movement.

Discontented with the monotheistic religions and spiritually starved, the West in all it"s material opulence was ripe for a cargo cult. No - not a material cargo cult, but a spiritual cargo cult. A cult that would promise enlightenment, eternal happiness, peace and love on Earth and harmony amongst human being - in the future - found easy pickings in the West.

When the cargo didn"t arrive as promised in Melanesia, up started another movement with yet another future date or in the new age scene a better package, better techniques, new spellbinding teacher etcetera.

The last movement was the satsang movement. For those unfamiliar with the the word here is wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Satsang said:
Satsang (sanskrit sat = true, sanga = company) describes in indian philosophy 1) the company of the "highest truth"; 2) the company of a guru; 3) the company with an assembly of persons who listen to, talk about, and assimilate the truth. This practice also takes the form of listening to or reading scriptures, reflecting on, discussing and assimilating their meaning, meditating on the source of these words, and bringing their meaning into one"s daily life. Especially in the tradition of advaita-vedanta, satsang with an "enlightened" master is considered to be a prerequisite. Contemporary satsang-teachers in the west sometimes mix traditional eastern knowledge with methods of modern psychology.

Satsang in the West

The modern satsang masters have freed their teachings from the strict expectations of traditional advaita-teachers toward their followers. The masters assert that rituals or meditations are not necessary for inner freedom. Enlightenment is the ever-present truth that is being found beyond any conditions and spiritual states. As attachment to thoughts and to unresolved emotions are considered to be the hindrances to this cognition, many teachers emphasize the importance of accepting emotions unbiased as they are, with no attempt of changing or dissolving them. This, they say, will take the energy away from the stories of the mind, and thus from the stream of thoughts. Others recommend to permanently "return to the moment" in order to reach the same result. Because these practices are aimed at experiencing freedom in the presence, they are not regarded as "techniques" with an outcome to be found in the future.The worldwide fast-growing satsang movement has its roots in H. W. L. Poonja, a student of Ramana Maharshi.

It should be mentioned that the socalled "founders" to my knowledge never had any intention of founding any thing, but were merely being themselves, which happened to be what could best be described as selfless.
Unfortunately the idea of being a teacher, enlightened and being considered special attracts a considerable amount of people, who instead of setting people free, encourages the transfer of authority from the seeker to the teacher. A dependency is created and the seeker looks to the teacher for their "fix" of happiness. Once the "fix" wears off the seeker just looks forward to the next teacher rolling in to town.

One could say that the movement has been ponerized, but I think that is too strong a word. It is very like what happened to the Reiki movement, which more people probably are familiar with.

The latest cargo cult is the deeksha movement. I will briefly explain to the best of my knowledge what the movement is about and why it is so disturbing.
Deeksha is Sanskrit and means "initiation". The traditional meaning is described here:

http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Deeksha/id/59315 said:
deeksha: (Sanskrit) "Initiation."
Solemn induction by which one is entered into a new realm of awareness and practice by a teacher or preceptor through the bestowing of blessings and the transmission of pranas. Denotes initial or deepened connection with the teacher and his lineage and is usually accompanied by ceremony. Initiation, revered as a moment of awakening, may be conferred by a touch, a word, a look or a thought.

Yet, the word deeksha has a special meaning in this latest movement:

http://www(dot)onenessuniversity(dot)co.uk/deeksha.php said:
Deeksha is a transfer of divine energy designed to bring about the state of Oneness and flowering of the heart in the recipient. This energy has been brought to the world by the grace of the avatars Amma and Bhagavan.

Deeksha initiates a neurobiological change in the brain that when completed enables the senses to be free from the interference of the mind. When the senses are unclouded by the mind's interpretations, a natural clarity of perception occurs with accompanying spontaneous feelings of joy, inner calmness and connection to the Oneness in everything.

On the official site they go even further:

http://www.onenessuniversity.org/oneness/cms/home/ said:
DEEKSHA
A phenomenon ablaze across the planet.
Deeksha is God reaching out to you, punching a hole in the wall of the mind that alienates you from the divine.

Bhagavan or "Kalki" as he is also called, is said to have the ability to enlighten people by his very touch.
The following describes it further

http://www(dot)net-blast.com/Webdesk/netblast/pages/index.html;jsessionid=197170671960BA371B8FD286F4700ABE?id=311827 said:
hands upon your head in a state of divine union, and become channels for cosmic energies directed by Kalki to reorganize your neurocircuitry. Kalki refers to this process as "divine surgery". A golden ball of divine grace descends through the crown chakra, and the kundalini channels get activated, initiating a process in which the entire brain and nervous system is reorganized.

This golden ball is programmed by Kalki to reorganize the biological circuitry of the brain, leading to enlightenment. It has a living intelligence, and operates differently within each person. Once it has descended into the crown chakra, however, the process automatically continues, programmed by the divine "sankalpa" (intent) of Kalki and Amma.

On the same page there are some disclaimers about what enlightenment is not, but in order not to discourage the potential customer it continues:

http://www(dot)net-blast.com/Webdesk/netblast/pages/index.html;jsessionid=197170671960BA371B8FD286F4700ABE?id=311827 said:
There are as many kinds of enlightenment as there are people to experience the state. Many experience a deep inner silence, others experience an all-pervading joy, yet others an abiding sense of love for all creation. Many experience a sense of oneness with creation, or even cosmic consciousness. The states come and go, and vary from person to person, but there is one thing every enlightened person will experience in common. When the self disappears, suffering ends.

Bhagavan is out on a mission to save the planet and intends to have made 64000 people enlightened by year 2010 in order to save humanity and create a golden civilization with mass enlightenment by 2012. Sounds great! Who doesn"t want to be enlightened and be free of suffering.
So what next?
Well first you have to go to his ashram for a 21 day course. Cost is US$5500
And furthermore as this support website says

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles18-21-day-preparation.htm said:
This course should be attended only when one feels ripe for it, when one feels a sacred call from within. One also needs to go through a preparation course.
For the process to be fully effective, some basic trust is needed. If one gets operated, for appendicitis for instance, most people have trust in the surgeon, who could theoretically replace any organ in you. Or when one puts a huge sum of money in a bank, people seldom worry or get sleepless nights. In that sense, one needs trust in the Founders, the source of this phenomenon - Amma & Bhagavan - as well as the guides. Without this genuinely heartfelt trust, it will be very difficult for you to get the deeper fruit of the process.

Once a person has done the 21 day process, then they are qualified to give deeksha to people back in the west. Yes, it is not quite as powerful as when the head honcho gives it, but people who go report feeling relaxed, at peace and this encourages people to come back week after week for another "fix" for which there is a fee. Sounds familiar?

As a marketing ploy extraordinaire, group leaders in the New Age scene around the world have been invited to do the 21-day process free of charge. In this way their tacit support is almost guaranteed and for a lot of seekers it gives them an extra reason to go as the group leaders that they have on a pedestal and thus by mere association gives a process legitimacy.

For those who have done the 21 day process, they can go back for a 10 day deepening process, which again has a cost of US$1500.

A quote from the wave series by LKJ is helpful to put it into perspective:

Laura in The Wave vol 2 pp 117-120 said:
In Matthew 24, when Jesus was asked "what will be the sign of the end - the completion, the consummation - of the age? he answered:

Be careful that no one misleads you - deceiving you and leading you into error.... And many false prophets will rise up and deceive and lead many into error... for false Christs and false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect... (Matthew 24:4,11,24; Amplified, Zondervan)

Click to expand...

So, we have some ancient traditions about this time of the "End," (or so we suppose it to be due to our many current observations about the state of the world), that support the idea of many, many channelled teachings and messages being "poured out" on the Earth in that given time. We note, in the first place, that it is described as a "pouring out of God's Spirit on all flesh" so that many are inspired to "prophesy" or have dreams and visions.

Okay, that's all fine and good. BUT then we are told that a LOT of this will be "unlimited seduction to evil and with all wicked deception" brought through by "false prophets" and "wonder workers." Further, it is clearly stated that this influence is as a result of that very same "Spirit of God" when it is stated: "God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion to make them believe what is false..." The final piece of the puzzle is "false prophets will arise, and they will show great signs and wonders, so as to deceive and lead astray, if possible, even the elect..."

It's pretty clear, I think, that "the Elect," whoever and whatever they are, must be considered to be the prime targets of this activity, so we have to consider that it is NOT going to be an easy task to sort the wheat from the chaff! We can expect the "deceptions and delusions" to be VERY subtle and clever.

Again, I would like to call your attention to the remark: "God sends upon them a misleading influence, a working of error and a strong delusion..." Don't you think that this is an ASTOUNDING statement? I do. It certainly makes it understandable why so many "sources" can come across as teachers of "love and light" when, in fact, they are purveyors of error and "strong delusion." In effect, we are being told that these are TESTS!

And how do you pass a test? A really difficult one? At the very least, you have to have some knowledge of the subject. In most cases, it requires a great deal of study and effort.

The point is: there is an ancient tradition that tells us that deception is going to be the keynote of the times. Those who have not done their "homework," and who are not AWARE of this, look upon the expanding "spiritual concerns" of the New Age "movement" as a sign that the world is going to be "transformed by love and light" and the aliens are here to help us, and we should all embrace every new "avatar" that comes down the pike showing us "signs and wonders" or telling us that we are "special and chosen," as our savior and way-shower to the Elysian Fields of sanctity and bliss.

According to the Koran, God is the "Best of deceivers." In chapter 231 of Ibn al-'Arabi's Futuhat, ("Unveiling"), which is entitled "On Deception," there is a long description of the various forms that God's deception may take. It is said that God's deceptions appear as the "wiles of Satan" and the lower soul which often consist of:

The continuation of favors in spite [the servant's] opposition [to God's command]. [God allows the "state" to continue] in spite of the servant's discourtesy in the manifestation of miraculous signs without divine command and without being punished.

In our own view, God's deceiving [the servant' is that He should provide him knowledge which demands practice, and then deprive him of the practice; or that God should provide him with practice, and then deprive him of sincerity in the practice. When you see this in yourself or recognize it in someone else, know that he who has such an attribute is the object of deception. [Chittick's translation]

Click to expand...

In this chapter, Ibn al-'Arabi discusses various manifestations of deception, especially as it affects the general spiritual seeker, the "elect" and the "elect of the elect." These last can be the ones who are tempted by the desire to convince others by manifesting "signs." To attempt to "sidestep" the natural laws of the world in which we have our being is considered to be a very great "discourtesy" toward God because it suggests a judgment on the creation or a "breaking of the natural laws" without a direct command from God. It seems that, as a "test," God bestows upon some people the "power to break the laws of nature," and then places within such a person an urge to manifest these signs in such a way that he is unaware that this is a deception. Hence, he is inspired in his soul to manifest the signs as a kindness to "attract the creatures to God." Such a person does not understand that, by so doing, he is depriving the witnesses of "acting upon insight." [cf. Chittick]

In other words, such a person has deprived his devotees of Free Will.

The dangers come, of course, when a person deliberately seeks to "channel higher beings" or the "higher self" before being well educated in the history and forms and results of such activities. Such practices become, in effect, a "piercing of the veil," or as Ibn al-'Arabi calls it, "unveiling."

The experience of unveiling opens up an infinite expanse of previously unseen realities to the heart of the spiritual seeker. ...The realm into which the adept first enters is, after all, the World of Imagination, whose byways never end. It is the domain of the satans and other deceiving forces. The traveler needs to keep a clear head during his journeys and not be misled by the swirling forces which lie just beyond the horizons of stability and balance.

...Nowadays most people interested in the spirituality of the East desire the "experience," though they may call what they are after "intimate communion with God." Those familiar with the standards and norms of spiritual experience set down by disciplined paths are usually appalled at the way Westerners seize upon any apparition from the domain outside of normal consciousness as a manifestation of the "spiritual." In fact there are innumerable realms in the unseen world, some of them far more dangerous than the worst jungles of the visible world. No person familiar with the teachings of Sufism would dare lay himself open to such forces... [Chittick, The Sufi Path of Knowledge]

Click to expand...

Text in bold is how it appeared in the original. Colors used to highlight other parts

I happen to know quite a few people, who have done the process and despite the process not coming up with the goods. The one thing that I keep hearing about is about the experiences, the love, about the golden era coming and so on. Like the cargo cult, the goods always come later and the true followers are not disturbed by it. Another point is, that when you have spent a "small" fortune doing some group you are less likely to say it was worthless even if that is the case. No one wants to look like a gullible fool.

A couple of acquaintances who had been to the onenessuniversity and done the 21 day process visited the other day, and what they recounted was pretty scary to my way of looking at reality. They on the other hand thought of it as amazing. They told me that Bhagavan has the capacity of putting people into a â€œhigh stateâ€ . He does that only with people he thinks are ready and willing. He calls these 'Cosmic Beings' and they are put into a state where they are basically vegetables. They no longer have a contact with their body and sit just motionless in a "conscious state". People have to feed them and move their limbs, so they basically sacrifice themselves for "healing" the planet. They told me that they have an "awesome energy" and that there currently are 16 people like that. The aim is to have 8000 beings like that "radiating love" out to the world.
When I heard this, I must say I was a bit shocked. Even more so in realizing that our visitors thought that this was great. They likened these cosmic beings to Ramana Maharshi, an Indian sage, who by his own chosing and capacity got into and years later out of a 'high state' of consciousness.
What is so great about someone turning people into vegetables!!! From a gardeners point of view, I can see some benefits, but seriously. To top it off, they are now revered as almost demigods. Talk about sacrificial lambs. I see it more and more like possibly a feeding hierarchy going straight to 4D STS.

It reminds me of something that I recently read in 'Bringers of the Dawn'

Bringers of the dawn said:
You may know that these beings are not of light, and you may know it to the core of your being. You may become sickened in a society that does not know this. Many people will turn to worshiping these beings because it will seem as if miracles are occurring and the grandest event in the history of the world is taking place. It may seem that humanity is being given a whole new opportunity, a whole new golden era. Then there will be a very big surprise, and people will find that the tyrannies are larger than ever before.

It brings to mind what the cassiopaeans have talked about â€œgoing for the gold without looking beforehand and the challenge of temptationsâ€ . One of the temptations here is the shortcut apart from a desired paradise state. Also what Ibn al-'Arabi says in the above quoted from the wave is worth repeating: â€ Hence, he is inspired in his soul to manifest the signs as a kindness to "attract the creatures to God." Such a person does not understand that, by so doing, he is depriving the witnesses of "acting upon insight."

I discovered how difficult it is to talk to people about this issue of the cargo-cults. Most of these difficulties are due to limiting beliefs and severe lack of knowledge.Some of the difficulties are
1) A rigid belief that we are on the top of the foodchain.
2) Unwillingness to look at the possibility of hyperdimensional realities
3) Belief that Enlightenment is always STO (service to other) oriented.
4) Believing that all people have the best interest of humanity at heart.
5) Unwillingness to consider the possibility of evil.
6) A belief that there is no harm in trying.
7) Believing in a free lunch universe. The ability to get something for nothing.
8) A desperate wanting to see good in the world, to the point of negating what is.
9) General lack of knowledge.

Obviously the difficulty is greatest with the people, who are involved in a cargo-cult, which is not unlike the difficulty explaining to someone in America that there is no democracy. Like I mentioned in the beginning, then I am myself no stranger to the cargo-cults of the New Age scene and have learned by experience. This does not mean that it is an experience that everybody needs to have, which is one of the reasons why I have written the above.
Experience has taught me not to give my authority to anything outside of myself, be it a teacher, a scripture, an ET or a cosmic being. NO MATTER how fantastic it sounds, looks or feels. Giving authority to something outside of yourself is Believing in something outside of yourself MORE than what is your own experience. That is the TRAP. Or so I think :)

A clever person learns from his mistakes, a genius learns from the mistakes of others.

The comparison of the New Age scene with the Melanesian cargo-cults could just aswell include the Christian Rapture movement but that is another story.

To be continued...

Anders

lonenutter · Nov 11, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

thanks for posting this-although I think some New Agers expect material and not spiritual cargo to come their way after they create their own reality-such as a new car/home/ideal life partner, etc. after reading about so many bogus spiritual movements, it still shocks me that there is no such thing as self-reliance any more (I'm sure Emerson is rolling over in his grave at this)-there always has to be some teacher/guru or 'shift facilitator' that mediates ones spiritual progress. however this is a time when one should truly rely on their own senses-not just the physical senses but intuitive ones because authentic teachers are nearly non-existent while the false ones prevail. it really isn't that hard to do. as an example when I read about some of the claims being made such as 'punching a hole in one's mind' I started to get short of breath-like something was manipulating me-cutting my grounding-trying to disorient me-so that I would latch onto the program being offered for salvation-for grounding-definition. it is the oldest persuasion tactic in the book. Cults often employ this both spiritually and physically-even giving people highly sugared beverages to put their blood sugar out of whack-or denying them a meal-so they can't rely on their senses. Also mantras are employed to create a similar effect.

something like this happened to me when I accidentally attended an Elizabeth Claire Prophet meeting-under the assumption that it would be a scholarly talk on the lost years of Jesus. When I then realized I was sitting in on an ECP meeting and started to get ungrounded, I kept digging my fingernail into my hand as a reality check and worked on my breathing. Then they made us do these I AM mantras-but I refused to say them outloud-I made my eyes go out of focus as well.

It took me about a day or two to de-program-get out of the dazed state I was in-thanks to a intuitive healer who cleared all the cult crap out of me-particularly this etheric steel band around my sixth chakra-third eye. It was designed to prevent one from seeing within-and seeing through the b.s. I was really embarrassed that this happened but it was a great lesson because it honed my senses to know when something was awry. Never again!

Mr. Premise · Nov 12, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Well done, Anders. The list below is SO true. So sad, too, because this type of thing captures some of the most open-minded, sincere seekers, then neutralizes them. It is shocking when one sees the extent of the deceit.

And there are no shortage of "debunkers" going after the New Age, but they are usually non-spiritual materialists. That is another reason why Laura's work is so significant: laying out a critique of new age cargo cults (nice comparison!) from an open, hyperdimensional perspective.

Anders said:
I discovered how difficult it is to talk to people about this issue of the cargo-cults. Most of these difficulties are due to limiting beliefs and severe lack of knowledge.Some of the difficulties are
1) A rigid belief that we are on the top of the foodchain.
2) Unwillingness to look at the possibility of hyperdimensional realities
3) Belief that Enlightenment is always STO (service to other) oriented.
4) Believing that all people have the best interest of humanity at heart.
5) Unwillingness to consider the possibility of evil.
6) A belief that there is no harm in trying.
7) Believing in a free lunch universe. The ability to get something for nothing.
8) A desperate wanting to see good in the world, to the point of negating what is.
9) General lack of knowledge.

Anders

Ryan · Nov 12, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Great post. Smacks very much of the techniques used by Prem Rawat.

Bholanath · Nov 12, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Yes, a very excellent post, Anders. IMO a crucial area of inquiry. And I agree with DonaldJHunt:

DonaldJHunt said:
Well done, Anders. The list below is SO true. So sad, too, because this type of thing captures some of the most open-minded, sincere seekers, then neutralizes them. It is shocking when one sees the extent of the deceit.
And there are no shortage of "debunkers" going after the New Age, but they are usually non-spiritual materialists. That is another reason why Laura's work is so significant: laying out a critique of new age cargo cults (nice comparison!) from an open, hyperdimensional perspective.

An open hyperdimensional perspective hopefully could sort out the truths or realities of some of the ancient Eastern traditional practices which in some rare instances result in what could be described as "wisdom transmission". Guru-surrender vs. self-reliance is a tricky paradox, difficult to discuss since in the West our experience is mostly NOT with free-will-respecting honorable gurus. However that is not the whole picture.

Anders said:
It should be mentioned that the socalled 'founders' to my knowledge never had any intention of founding any thing, but were merely being themselves, which happened to be what could best be described as selfless.

There always seem to be followers who will start sculpting the bust of the preceptor before s/he expires and those who will fight over the bones (and territory) before the ashes are cold.
I have observed the advaita newage movement closely and over time have watched people going for their "fix" year after year, asking for some "trigger phrase" over and over. They experience a temporary "open non-attached witness" state, but have no self-discipline to progress through time integrating the imbedded truth (within the bs) of that reality, let alone building a continuity of multi-dimensional awareness that can be carried into daily life. I've noticed the "deeksha" scene and it looks like more of the same type of pyramid-scheme that creates more and more "masters" to cash in on the endless supply of (IMO mostly semi-serious) seekers. Deeksha is in actuality an initiation, but just the first of many necessary to master any tradition- essentially a first baby-step into usually a vast practice or art/craft lineage. Amazing how americans (or westerners) can take meaningful words and concepts from other cultures and turn them into caricatures/cartoons of the original. Satsang, Deeksha, Yogi, Guru, Surrender/Submission, Bhakti, Sufi, Shaman, Medicine-people, the list is endless....
Cashing in/marketing/spiritual-careerism seems to take over. I also agree there is definitely a ponerological predisposition in many of the new western "masters". I have been close enough to observe over time the love of five-star life-style in those who have become so-called gurus over the last 35+ years. Many of these people bought into the "abundance-consciousness" craze of the 70s and 80s. And the sense of superiority is apparent in the attitudes and actions and manner of addressing those honestly questioning and acting self-reliant or skeptical.
Its disheartening to see the deceit, while simultaneously having experienced long-term, clean one-on-one initiations with selfless masters. But, most friends in the Eastern world I know keep a balance with humor about the situation. In the East the people are used to thousands of years of spiritual scammers - they've always been a part of the "landscape".
Something else that's a touchy subject: the predominance, observed by many, of Jews and/or Israelis in the upper levels of Western Hindu, Buddhist, and Sufi cults. (I've closely observed four cults.) An example: Israelis from the former Rajneesh-cult made up probably 80% of the people living in Lucknow around HWL Poonja before he died. Talk about obnoxious, and treating the locals like -homies-! Just an observation. I personally have wondered if its because the Jehovah-cult was always about power, fear, superiority, self-serving-exclusivity, and intellectual cleverness to militarily and spiritually wipe out the indigenous matriarchal tribal societies wherever they went. And my Jewish friends don't question the high numbers in the new age Eastern cults' higher echelons either, but remain touchy about "anti-semitism". I see almost all of them as just slick posers, and they see me as having an "attitude problem". But we can't waste time fighting useless battles and falling into despair and getting drained of energy by being around self-important posers with a "little bit of knowledge".

Anders · Nov 13, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

DonaldJHunt said:
So sad, too, because this type of thing captures some of the most open-minded, sincere seekers, then neutralizes them. It is shocking when one sees the extent of the deceit.

Yes, indeed. Most of the ones I know are good hearted, well intentioned and want to help, but like you say, they are being neutralized. A good hearted person, where knowledge is absent, is easily misled.

Anders · Nov 13, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Part 2 of 6

I would like to add a few more observations regarding the deeksha movement as they have been plaguing me all day. :/

The visitors that came to our house for dinner, explained with great enthusiasm about the deeksha process that now Hollywood is going there and the secretary to the pope. The person from Hollywood they said is Demi Moore. Hey, hang on, apart from the red flags going up when Hollywood and the Vatican gets involved in anything, who ever looked to Demi Moore in regard to spiritual guidance. That the rich and famous get involved should have no bearing to the validity of any movement. It is worth recapping what was written on paralogism in the book 'Political ponerology'

page 90 said:
Paralogism: n. illogical or fallacious deduction. Paralogical, paralogistic, a. paralogize, v.i. be illogical; draw unwarranted conclusions. Paralogist,n.]

Regarding the pope's secretary, then it begs the question why we are not seeing a major enlightening going on in the Catholic church, bearing in mind that we are talking about the 21 day process that happened 9 month ago. The special thing about Deeksha is that after 21 days you can enlightend other people around you. Yes, not fully for that a full US$5500 is required, but enough to feel bliss, love and the oneness with everyone. How come the pope's secretary has not been sharing this bliss with his master and fellow cardinals. On the contrary it is within the last few months that the pope came out blazing against the muslim world, not a sign of oneness or love.

One could of course excuse a person for being enthusiastic straight after a 21-day process, but 9 month later. On top of it, our guests make a living traveling the world giving satsang. When one meet this person, what comes to mind is that this person is one big heart. But when the heart is disconnected from knowledge then it can be downright disastrous. A lesson to be learned.

I mentioned in the first post about the 'great' marketing ploy. Our visitors due to their position as known New Age people were invited free of cost to do the 21 day retreat. We learned later that it paid off, since they on one of their satsang retreats in Europe this year showed a promotional video about the deeksha movement. What better endorsement does a person need that having his/her guru doing the 'enlightenment group' and secondly even show a video of it apart from talking about how awesome it is. Clever marketing indeed!

It is interesting to see what people, who have done the process, say about it. Here are some examples from one site.
First a few quotes about the person:

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles17-FindingtheGuru.htm said:
Since this time I had been very wary of people talking about mystical experiences and idealistic dreams, as I had put all that down to my mixing meditation and the spiritual path with psychotropic drugs.

Had a bad trip and:

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles17-FindingtheGuru.htm said:
From this experience 7 years ago I stopped the drugs! And I began to follow a very practical and rational path, focusing on mindfulness meditation and being very much in the ordinary daily world.

Now the 21 day process

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles17-FindingtheGuru.htm said:
The process was guided by The Enlightened Dasajis (monks). The content of the retreat was a mixture of meditations, homas (fire rituals), listening to experiences of past participants, teachings, receiving deeksha from Cosmic beings!!, having Darshan with Sri Bhagavan and Sri Amma and watching movies!

More about the Cosmis beings as they are called:

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles17-FindingtheGuru.htm said:
Some of the people appeared drunk and had difficulty walking, from having experienced the power, just from being in the presence of these beings.
That is when I thought wow, this is for real! The power of this place was tangible; there was electricity in the air that gave me a tingling sensation on the back of my neck. When it was our turn to enter the room, I was a bit nervous as to what to expect. When I walked in and saw the cosmic beings, I thought it was something unreal, like something you would see in a film. There were 9 people sat in a row, in one sense they looked dead as they were perfectly still like statues, and on the other hand they looked incredibly healthy and absolutely radiating with life, they kind of glowed!

Her thoughts on Bhagavan:

http://www.atimetoheal-om.net/sec%20A%20-%20articles17-FindingtheGuru.htm said:
His sole purpose as an Avatar is just to give Enlightenment to everyone who seeks, and that is all. This spaciousness and freedom and immense generosity touched me deeply.

Oh yes and not to mention cashing in.

Here is somebody else's experience:

http://www(dot)newbrainnewworld.com/?Research_Cases said:
This morning there was again a very beautiful ritual called Homas with fire and offerings. The Hindu rituals are very impressive with live music and heavenly vocals and the intention with these long rituals is to put our ego into the place where it belongs, namely as a servant to us instead of being the ruler of our life.

In the afternoon session we were again to invoke the Presence, and out of the blue Bhagavan showed up in my stomach, laughing. I saw his face very clearly and I could not believe it. "This must be a joke" I thought and tried to relax and let go. But no, he had taken up residence in my stomach. I had become an energy vehicle for him and I knew right away that I was now able to pass on his energies to other people in the way he calls Deeksha. My relationship with Bhagavan is very unpretentious and relaxed - he is my heavenly father.

And somebody else's experience:

http://www.onenesscenter.org/html/_bruhn_deepening_experience.html said:
I just returned from 21 days in the intense presence of Bhagavan in the Garden of Eden - now called Anandaloka 3J. To live so closely to Bhagavan was like sitting under a waterfall of grace for 21 days. And this was not all. I also joined the VIP-process of 6 Shamans from Latin America, meditated with the cosmic beings, spoke with my father who died 7 years ago, received the final initiation for giving Mukti-diksha, got specific assignments from Bhagavan, received Ammas blessings of our silver diksha-sandals, had a golden being unfolding inside of me and much more.

I cannot understand how blessed my family is. Since meeting Amma and Bhagavan on the conscious level in September 2003 the gifts have poured down from the sky. Cecil (my wife) and I both received permanent enlightenment in 2004, my mother was cured from terminal cancer after this, my brother received a breakthrough to a liberated state of being in your bulldozer course in September 2004 and the relationships in my family has improved by a 1000%. It is unbelievable.

Then Cecil and I received the gift to be able to transfer the Amma Bhagavan Energy through healing deekshas in the autumn of 2004 and we have been conducting eight satsangs and four 3/7-day retreats.

He continues

http://www.onenesscenter.org/html/_bruhn_deepening_experience.html said:
...but the instream of grace was felt 24/7 and sometimes gave electro shocks to the body. The in stream was especially powerful in the crown chakra and the heart chakra. One day after a sweat lodge ceremony performed by the shamans my crown chakra opened to a size I had not experienced before. It was as wide as my shoulders and moved down the body like a scanner until it reached the heart. What a blessing - it was like a new frequency-shift in every single cell of my body.

What seems to be spoken of quite a bit is this thing about Bhagavan entering the bodies of the participants. It is taken as a great thing, but something other than benevolent things can also enter the bodies and even in the guise of something benevolent.OSIT

The smoke and mirror is all taken for proof, that this is the real deal. Remember what was quoted in the first post:

In this chapter, Ibn al-'Arabi discusses various manifestations of deception, especially as it affects the general spiritual seeker, the "elect" and the "elect of the elect." These last can be the ones who are tempted by the desire to convince others by manifesting "signs." To attempt to "sidestep" the natural laws of the world in which we have our being is considered to be a very great "discourtesy" toward God because it suggests a judgment on the creation or a "breaking of the natural laws" without a direct command from God. It seems that, as a "test," God bestows upon some people the "power to break the laws of nature," and then places within such a person an urge to manifest these signs in such a way that he is unaware that this is a deception. Hence, he is inspired in his soul to manifest the signs as a kindness to "attract the creatures to God." Such a person does not understand that, by so doing, he is depriving the witnesses of "acting upon insight." [cf. Chittick]

In other words, such a person has deprived his devotees of Free Will.

The dangers come, of course, when a person deliberately seeks to "channel higher beings" or the "higher self" before being well educated in the history and forms and results of such activities. Such practices become, in effect, a "piercing of the veil," or as Ibn al-'Arabi calls it, "unveiling."

The experience of unveiling opens up an infinite expanse of previously unseen realities to the heart of the spiritual seeker. ...The realm into which the adept first enters is, after all, the World of Imagination, whose byways never end. It is the domain of the satans and other deceiving forces. The traveler needs to keep a clear head during his journeys and not be misled by the swirling forces which lie just beyond the horizons of stability and balance.

...Nowadays most people interested in the spirituality of the East desire the "experience," though they may call what they are after "intimate communion with God." Those familiar with the standards and norms of spiritual experience set down by disciplined paths are usually appalled at the way Westerners seize upon any apparition from the domain outside of normal consciousness as a manifestation of the "spiritual." In fact there are innumerable realms in the unseen world, some of them far more dangerous than the worst jungles of the visible world. No person familiar with the teachings of Sufism would dare lay himself open to such forces... [Chittick, The Sufi Path of Knowledge]

Click to expand...

Something about Bhagavan Kalki, from an Indian site on 'spiritual matter.'

http://www(dot)godrealized.com/bhagavankalki.html said:
Bhagavan Kalki... the showman of the era is expected shortly. One with almost equivalent powers of Lord Krishna... Bhagavan Kalki would be the most revered person on Mother Earth in the near future. It would be beyond the capacity of a normal human being to assess and understand the phenomenon that would be termed as Bhagavan Kalki...

Bhagavan Kalki shall wield that power and influence which shall make even the most powerful scouring for hidden pastures...

Bhagavan Kalki would have a following of about 1000 million people. There is no extent to which these 1000 million people would be willing to go for they have placed their firm faith in Bhagavan Kalki. They are the blind followers of Bhagavan Kalki...

It is almost 3600 years since the advent of Lord Krishna on Mother Earth that that a person of the status of Bhagavan Kalki would arrive on the scene. It was during the times of Lord Krishna the values in the society had completely crumbled and broken down...

Now time has come for history to repeat itself. When the ball goes rolling few steps down after bouncing back again and again it becomes flat. Someone with the powers of an avatar who shall be able to lift this ball and throw it again is required. It shall be a superhuman feat. Even man gods like Mahavira, Gautama Buddha, Jesus Christ and Prophet Mohammed would fail in that matter.

The job of an avatar can only be done by the likes of Lord Krishna or Bhagavan Kalki. It is this typical manifest stage in life when we shall all witness the advent of Bhagavan Kalki.

The end of the present Kali Yuga would entail great sacrifice.[/b] Sacrifices from those who have a list of crimes attached with their name and also those who are absolutely innocent! Unless and until the blood of the innocent is spilt... the war of Dharma would not have been won...

Bhagavan Kalki is expected to be the cause of 5.5 million deaths initiated on his own. It is only then the society be wiped clean of all the ills existing today.

The present Kali Yuga would end with a fierce battle between the Christianity and the proponents of Islamic Dharma. A fight to the finish between these two communities would result in the whole world engaging in world War three. The result... almost 1200 million deaths... something inconceivable in the present circumstances!

And lastly, a quote from Goethe:

"The people, who are most enslaved, are the ones, who think they are free." Goethe

To be continued...

Anders

Anders · Nov 14, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Part 3 of 6

I would like to look a little closer at beliefs with a few quotes from various books, which is especially for those who are new to the SOTT forum and unfamiliar with the research and articles on the site in general.

In the matrix movies there is a scene, where Morpheus is describing the Matrix to Neo:

Morpheus: The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around. What do you see. Business men, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system, and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inert, so hopelessly dependent on the system that they will fight to protect it.

The important thing is that these New Age movements are part of the Matrix. It simply could not be otherwise. If it was a threat to the system it would be squashed immediately. A sobering read for anyone who doubt this is the book by Richard Dolan called "UFO's and the National Security State." Dolan is a historian and has meticulously laid out the results of his scholarly research into the control system, with references and documentation.

Laura wrote in an interesting thing about beliefs and how the work in citing an experiment called 'the third man syndrome':

Laura in vol 1 of the Wave series said:
As noted on another page on this website, there is a funny thing about hypnosis that illustrates this point and I will include it here:

There is a little known fact about experimental hypnosis that is illustrated by the following story:

A subject was told that when he was awakened from a hypnosis session he would be unable to see a third man in the room who, it was suggested to him, would have become invisible. All the "proper" suggestions to make this "true" were given, such as "you will NOT see so- and-so" etc... varying formats of suggestion along this line were used. When the subject was awakened, lo and behold! the suggestions did NOT work.

Why? Because they went against his belief system. He did NOT believe that a person could become invisible.

So, another tactic was tried. The subject was hypnotized again and was told that the third person was leaving the room... that he had been called away on urgent business, and the scene of him getting on his coat and hat was described... the door was opened and shut to provide "sound effects," and then the subject was brought out of the trance.

Guess what happened? He was UNABLE TO SEE the Third Man.

Why? Because his belief system was "activated" in a manner that was "acceptable" to his "ego survival" instincts. The survival of the ego is established pretty early in life by our parental and societal programming as to what IS or is NOT possible. We learn this by learning what it pleases our parents and our society to believe. If a child observes a "fairy," they pretty quickly learn to NOT see them because they are told it is "nonsense," or "impossible," and so on, and that seeing such things brings on disapproval. Approval of the parent is pretty potent to a small child who perceives himself or herself as totally dependent upon the primary caregivers.

Anyway, to return to our story, the Third Man went about the room picking things up and setting them down and doing all sorts of things to test the subject's awareness of his presence, and the subject became utterly hysterical at this "anomalous" activity! He could see objects moving through the air, doors opening and closing, but he could NOT see the SOURCE because he did not believe that there was another man in the room.

So, what are the implications to this factor of human consciousness? (By the way, this is also the reason why most therapy to stop bad habits does not work - they attempt to operate against a "belief system" that is imprinted in the subconscious that this or that habit is essential to survival).

One of the first things that occurs to one when thinking about this is the idea that everyone has a different set of beliefs and that these beliefs determine how much of the OBJECTIVE reality one is able to access. How truly "objective" that reality is can be debated, but that is going in a direction that is not germane to the issue.

In this analogy, the objective reality IS WHAT IT IS, whether it is truly objective, or only a consensus reality, only in this story, there is clearly a big part of that reality that is inaccessable to the "subject" due to his programming according to his beliefs as activated by his willingness to choose who or what to believe. (In this case, the hypnotist is believed.)

Click to expand...

So it appears that our beliefs define the walls of our prison. Even the gurus of the East say that, while encouraging blind belief in them. Beliefs have been the key part in controlling humanity for eons and after the disenchantment with the monotheistic religions, in came the New Age Movement to fill the vacuum thus created. Coincidence --- NO

If you think that you are in control of your thoughts and are able to clearly tell the truth about the deeksha movement by going there and seeing for yourself, think again.

Here is an extract from an excellent article that Laura wrote in 2003, in which she quotes Dolan:

Laura in http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cosmic_cointelpro.htm said:
Dolan tells us:

By the early 1970s, there were already means available to alter the moods of unsuspecting persons. A pocket-sized transmitter generating electromagnetic energy at less than 100 milliwatts could do the job. This is no pie-in-the-sky theory. In 1972, Dr. Gordon J.F. McDonald testified before the House Subcommittee on Oceans and International Environment on the issue of electromagnetic weapons used for mind control and mental disruption. He stated:

[T]he basic notion was to create, between the electrically charged ionosphere in the higher part of the atmosphere and conducting layers of the surface of the Earth, this neutral cavity, to create waves, electrical waves that would be tuned to the brain waves. ...About ten cycles per second. ...You can produce changes in behavioral patterns or in responses.

The following year, Dr. Joseph C. Sharp, at Walter Reed Hospital, while in a soundproof room, was able to hear spoken words broadcast by 'pulsed microwave audiogram.' These words were broadcast to him without any implanted electronic translation device. Rather, they reached him by direct transmission to the brain.

Click to expand...

Notice that the above experiment took place over 30 years ago, which makes you wonder what they are able to conjure now.

The article is worth reading in full, as it deals with the issue mentioned in this thread. I just didn't feel to stretch the moderators patience as it is a long article ;)

Knowledge protects, ignorance endangers!

To be continued...

Anders

Anders · Nov 16, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Part 4 of 6

In the first post I mentioned some of the difficulties in addressing these issues with people:

I discovered how difficult it is to talk to people about this issue of the cargo-cults. Most of these difficulties are due to limiting beliefs and severe lack of knowledge.Some of the difficulties are
1) A rigid belief that we are on the top of the foodchain.
2) Unwillingness to look at the possibility of hyperdimensional realities
3) Belief that Enlightenment is always STO (service to other) oriented.
4) Believing that all people have the best interest of humanity at heart.
5) Unwillingness to consider the possibility of evil.
6) A belief that there is no harm in trying.
7) Believing in a free lunch universe. The ability to get something for nothing.
8) A desperate wanting to see good in the world, to the point of negating what is.
9) General lack of knowledge.

It would only seem reasonable to suggest some ways of bridging these difficulties. If a person acknowledges that some of the points mentioned above applies to them, then I can suggest a few books for a starter:

1) 'UFO's and the National Security State' by Richard Dolan, found here
2) 'The High Strangeness of Dimensions, Densities and the process of Alien Abduction' by Laura Knight-Jadczyk see here
3) 'The Secret history of the world and how to get out alive' by Laura Knight-Jadczyk, see here
4) 'The Wave series vol 1,2,3 and 4 by Laura Knight-Jadczyk, see here
5) 'Political Ponerology' by Andrzej Lobaczewski see here

Laura in her books draws from many sources, including Sufism, Gurdjieff, Carlos Castanedos to mention but a few and there are references to many good books on a variety of subjects, that will remove some of the cobwebs of conditioned thinking, if the willingness is there. Given that about 90% of what is out there is disinfo, the above books will save a considerable amount of time running around in circles. OSIT
There are many other books worth mentioning, but I have decided to leave that to others and also I don't want to overwhelm any newcomers.

Sadly for most people this is too much effort. They worship the idea "Ignorance is bliss". This reminds me of the scene from the Matrix movie where Agent Smith is meeting Cypher and is arranging for his reinsertion into the matrix:

Agent Smith: Do we have a deal, Mr. Reagan?
Cypher: You know, I know this steak doesn't exist. I know that when I put it in my mouth, the Matrix is telling my brain that it is juicy and delicious. After nine years, you know what I realize? Ignorance is bliss.
Agent Smith: Then we have a deal?
Cypher: I don't want to remember nothing. Nothing. You understand? And I want to be rich. You know, someone important, like an actor.
Agent Smith: Whatever you want, Mr. Reagan.
Cypher: Okay. I get my body back into a power plant, you insert me into the Matrix, I'll get you what you want.

It also brings to mind the scene from the movie 'V for Vendetta' where the inspector is realizing the possibility that the Government is the one guilty of the genocidal policies and hence ask himself: "...do we really want to know?"

The interesting thing is that a 'guru' is so popular. Paraphrasing what Thorbiorn once wrote to me, then guru more or less means someone rich in knowledge and a remover of ignorance.

It does not mean a bestower of happiness, sexual fulfilling relationships, a world of people dancing with love and joy or a world set in eternal pink sunset colors.

Knowledge is the opposite of ignorance and it is not handed on a platter!

Ryan said:
Great post. Smacks very much of the techniques used by Prem Rawat.

The article that exposes this 'guru' can be found here: Spiritual Predator: Prem Rawat AKA Maharaji

Another thing to mention, that surprised me initially was something the C's said about 'enlightenment:

C's transcript from September 19 said:
Q: He also says: 'I believe that an enlightened
being is emanating love where ever that
person is, and this is even without being
asked. It just happens because that is what they
are - love.' Comment, please.
A: An enlightened being is not love. And a
refrigerator is not a highway.
Q: What?! Talk about your mixed metaphors! I
don't get that one!
A: Why not?
Q: They are completely unrelated!
A: Exactly!!!
Q: What IS an enlightened being?
A: An enlightened being.
Q: What is the criteria for being an
enlightened being?
A: Being enlightened!
Q: When one is enlightened, what is the
profile?
A: This is going nowhere because you are
doing the proverbial round hole, square peg
routine.
Q: What I am trying to get to is an
understanding of an enlightened being. Eddie
and a LOT of other people have the idea that
an enlightened being IS LOVE, and that is
what they radiate, and that this is a result of
being enlightened.
A: No, no, no, no, no. "Enlightened" does not
mean good. Just smart.
Q: Okay, so there are STS and STO
enlightened beings?
A: Yes, we believe the overall ratio is 50/50.

I would say that this makes a lot of sense and explains a lot of what we are observing.
For those unfamiliar with some of the words here such as STO, STS etc, then there is an esoteric glossary
here

This brings me to a favorite story by Plato commonly known as Plato's cave:

The Allegory of the Cave

Here's a little story from Plato's most famous book, The Republic. Socrates is talking to a young follower of his named Glaucon, and is telling him this fable to illustrate what it's like to be a philosopher -- a lover of wisdom: Most people, including ourselves, live in a world of relative ignorance. We are even comfortable with that ignorance, because it is all we know. When we first start facing truth, the process may be frightening, and many people run back to their old lives. But if you continue to seek truth, you will eventually be able to handle it better. In fact, you want more! It's true that many people around you now may think you are weird or even a danger to society, but you don't care. Once you've tasted the truth, you won't ever want to go back to being ignorant!

[Socrates is speaking with Glaucon]

[Socrates:] And now, I said, let me show in a figure how far our nature is enlightened or unenlightened: --Behold! human beings living in a underground den, which has a mouth open towards the light and reaching all along the den; here they have been from their childhood, and have their legs and necks chained so that they cannot move, and can only see before them, being prevented by the chains from turning round their heads. Above and behind them a fire is blazing at a distance, and between the fire and the prisoners there is a raised way; and you will see, if you look, a low wall built along the way, like the screen which marionette players have in front of them, over which they show the puppets.

[Glaucon:] I see.

And do you see, I said, men passing along the wall carrying all sorts of vessels, and statues and figures of animals made of wood and stone and various materials, which appear over the wall? Some of them are talking, others silent.

You have shown me a strange image, and they are strange prisoners.

Like ourselves, I replied; and they see only their own shadows, or the shadows of one another, which the fire throws on the opposite wall of the cave?

True, he said; how could they see anything but the shadows if they were never allowed to move their heads?

And of the objects which are being carried in like manner they would only see the shadows?

Yes, he said.

And if they were able to converse with one another, would they not suppose that they were naming what was actually before them?

Very true.

And suppose further that the prison had an echo which came from the other side, would they not be sure to fancy when one of the passers-by spoke that the voice which they heard came from the passing shadow?

No question, he replied.

To them, I said, the truth would be literally nothing but the shadows of the images.

That is certain.

And now look again, and see what will naturally follow if the prisoners are released and disabused of their error. At first, when any of them is liberated and compelled suddenly to stand up and turn his neck round and walk and look towards the light, he will suffer sharp pains; the glare will distress him, and he will be unable to see the realities of which in his former state he had seen the shadows; and then conceive some one saying to him, that what he saw before was an illusion, but that now, when he is approaching nearer to being and his eye is turned towards more real existence, he has a clearer vision, -what will be his reply? And you may further imagine that his instructor is pointing to the objects as they pass and requiring him to name them, -- will he not be perplexed? Will he not fancy that the shadows which he formerly saw are truer than the objects which are now shown to him?

Far truer.

And if he is compelled to look straight at the light, will he not have a pain in his eyes which will make him turn away to take and take in the objects of vision which he can see, and which he will conceive to be in reality clearer than the things which are now being shown to him?

True, he said.

And suppose once more, that he is reluctantly dragged up a steep and rugged ascent, and held fast until he 's forced into the presence of the sun himself, is he not likely to be pained and irritated? When he approaches the light his eyes will be dazzled, and he will not be able to see anything at all of what are now called realities.

Not all in a moment, he said.

He will require to grow accustomed to the sight of the upper world. And first he will see the shadows best, next the reflections of men and other objects in the water, and then the objects themselves; then he will gaze upon the light of the moon and the stars and the spangled heaven; and he will see the sky and the stars by night better than the sun or the light of the sun by day?

Certainly.

Last of he will be able to see the sun, and not mere reflections of him in the water, but he will see him in his own proper place, and not in another; and he will contemplate him as he is.

Certainly.

He will then proceed to argue that this is he who gives the season and the years, and is the guardian of all that is in the visible world, and in a certain way the cause of all things which he and his fellows have been accustomed to behold?

Clearly, he said, he would first see the sun and then reason about him.

And when he remembered his old habitation, and the wisdom of the den and his fellow-prisoners, do you not suppose that he would felicitate himself on the change, and pity them?

Certainly, he would.

And if they were in the habit of conferring honours among themselves on those who were quickest to observe the passing shadows and to remark which of them went before, and which followed after, and which were together; and who were therefore best able to draw conclusions as to the future, do you think that he would care for such honours and glories, or envy the possessors of them? Would he not say with Homer,
Better to be the poor servant of a poor master, and to endure anything, rather than think as they do and live after their manner?

Yes, he said, I think that he would rather suffer anything than entertain these false notions and live in this miserable manner.

Imagine once more, I said, such an one coming suddenly out of the sun to be replaced in his old situation; would he not be certain to have his eyes full of darkness?

To be sure, he said.

And if there were a contest, and he had to compete in measuring the shadows with the prisoners who had never moved out of the den, while his sight was still weak, and before his eyes had become steady (and the time which would be needed to acquire this new habit of sight might be very considerable) would he not be ridiculous? Men would say of him that up he went and down he came without his eyes; and that it was better not even to think of ascending; and if any one tried to loose another and lead him up to the light, let them only catch the offender, and they would put him to death.

No question, he said.

This entire allegory, I said, you may now append, dear Glaucon, to the previous argument; the prison-house is the world of sight, the light of the fire is the sun, and you will not misapprehend me if you interpret the journey upwards to be the ascent of the soul into the intellectual world according to my poor belief, which, at your desire, I have expressed whether rightly or wrongly God knows. But, whether true or false, my opinion is that in the world of knowledge the idea of good appears last of all, and is seen only with an effort; and, when seen, is also inferred to be the universal author of all things beautiful and right, parent of light and of the lord of light in this visible world, and the immediate source of reason and truth in the intellectual; and that this is the power upon which he who would act rationally, either in public or private life must have his eye fixed.

From http://classics.mit.edu/Plato/republic.html

Thank you for your patience for those reading thus far ;)

Anders

To be continued...

dant · Nov 16, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Hmmm.

Does anyone remember the history and events involving the
Rajneesh cult? Google Search: "Rajneesh Antelope Oregon"

Seems this is an actual case of such 'cargo-cult' followers?

The result was that the inner circle closest to the baghwan, set up
an elaborate scheme to gather up their guilable followers to entice
them to give up all of their worldly posessions to their beloved baghwan
(guru), all the while simultaneously carrying out evil deeds such as
bribing the local officials, carried out planned assasinations against
those who stood in the way, poisoned the town's drinking water
supply, and many other unbelieveable evil acts. Of course, the
baghwan lived in opulence, drove a rolls royce, and had lots of
free sex. Since it was a commune, sex between members was
open and there was lots of "meditiations" and other supposed
"benefits".

I'll never forget this one.

From: http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b40.html

In 1981 Rajneesh's cult purchased a dilapidated ranch in Oregon, U.S., which became the site of Rajneeshpuram, a community of several thousand orange-robed disciples. Rajneesh was widely criticized by outsiders for his private security force and his ostentatious display of wealth. By 1985 many of his most trusted aides had abandoned the movement, which was under investigation for multiple felonies including arson, attempted murder, drug smuggling, and vote fraud in the nearby town of Antelope. In 1985 Rajneesh pleaded guilty to immigration fraud and was deported from the United States. He was refused entry by 21 countries before returning to Pune, where his ashram soon grew to 15,000 members. In later years he took the Buddhist title Osho and altered his teaching on unrestricted sexual activity because of his growing concern over AIDS.

Anders · Nov 17, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Part 5 of 6

dant said:
Hmmm.

Does anyone remember the history and events involving the
Rajneesh cult? Google Search: "Rajneesh Antelope Oregon"

Seems this is an actual case of such 'cargo-cult' followers?

Yes, that is another example of a cargo cult. I did not include it (and probably countless others), as it is no longer in vogue.

In the Kaminski thread I wrote this about Osho:

Book of wisdom said:
Noticing that Kaminsky is now under the influence of a follower of Osho, I thought it would be interesting to see what else could be found in the 'Book of Wisdom'.

It should be said for those unfamiliar with Osho, that he 'wrote' (transcribed from his discourses) about 600 books and spoke about just about every subject under the sun. His favourite subjects of critism were monotheisms, Reagan and the American empire and most of all the pope and the catholic church.
He did not teach about discernment, about psychopathy or the shadow side of man, and for a lot of his followers, his teachings were taken as a green light to chase their desires to their hearts content under the illusion of 'growing spiritually'. STS feeding frenzy!
In the mayhem of emotionally highs and downs and peak experiences, a lot of seekers got lost in the confusion of it all and the new age supermarket that was highly promoted. Osho died in 1990, but the circus is still running. Business as usual.

From the book of wisdom (written 1979) Kaminsky might have missed chapter five where Osho says:

Book of wisdom said:

Gurdjieff has said, "When my father was dying, I was only nine. He called me close to his bed and whispered in my ear, 'My son, I am not leaving much to you, not in worldly things, but I have one thing to tell you that was told to me by my father on his deathbed. It has helped me tremendously; it has been my treasure. You are not very grown up yet, you may not understand what I am saying, but keep it, remember it. One day you will be grown up and then you may understand. This is a key: it unlocks the doors of great treasures.'"
Of course Gurdjieff could not understand it at that moment, but it was the thing that changed his whole life. And his father said a very simple thing. He said, "Whenever somebody insults you, my son, tell him you will meditate over it for twenty-four hours and then you will come and answer him."
Gurdjieff could not believe that this was such a great key. He could not believe that "This is something so valuable that I have to remember it." And we can forgive a young child of nine years old. But because this was something said by his dying father who had loved him tremendously, and immediately after saying it he breathed his last, it became imprinted on him; he could not forget it. Whenever he remembered his father, he would remember the saying.
Without truly understanding, he started practicing it. If somebody insulted him he would say, "Sir, for twenty-four hours I have to meditate over it -- that's what my father told me. And he is here no more, and I cannot disobey a dead old man. He loved me tremendously, and I loved him tremendously, and now there is no way to disobey him. You can disobey your father when he is alive, but when your father is dead how can you disobey him? So please forgive me, I will come after twenty-four hours and answer you."
And he says, "Meditating on it for twenty-four hours has given me the greatest insights into my being. Sometimes I found that the insult was right, that that's how I am. So I would go to the person and say, 'Sir, thank you, you were right. It was not an insult, it was simply a statement of fact. You called me stupid; I am.'

Click to expand...

Instead Kaminsky might have skipped this and got attracted to this from Osho (apart from the fact that Osho is quoting a jew)

book of wisdom said:

Here is the only space, now is the only time. Beyond the herenow, there is nothing. Two thousand years ago, a great Jewish master, Hillel, wrote a little poem in Aramaic. The poem is this:

"If I'm not for myself,
Then who can be for me?
And if I'm only for myself,
Then what am I?
And if not now,
When?"

It is a beautiful statement: if not now, then when? Tomorrow? But the tomorrow never comes.
Hence I emphasize the herenow. Don't let this moment slip by unused, unlived, unpenetrated; squeeze all that you can out of it. Live it passionately and with intensity, so you need not repent later on that you missed your life.

It was after the Second World War; the war had ended. Joe Dink was still in Japan waiting to be discharged. His wife, Irma Dink, was wild with anxiety and jealousy because she read about the goings on between the American soldiers and the Japanese girls.
Finally she could stand it no longer, and she wrote her husband, "Joe, hurry up and come back. What do those girls have, anyway, that the American girls don't?"
"Not a thing," wrote back Joe. "But what they've got, they've got here."

And that is the most important thing. The question is of here and now.

Click to expand...

When there is no discernment between STS/STO, good/evil or the various names of God, then it is easy for a seeker to use nice sayings such as
"here now is all there is and tomorrrow never comes"
in order to justify one's own desire body rather than an encouragement to use each moment as an opportunity to choose in favour of one's destiny and thus activate the higher centres. OSIT

Osho's use of the saying, his wording, the joke and the subsequent message seems to encourage a gratification of the emotional pleasure body to the Max, thus feeding the lower centres (apart from the Lizzies). This is probably what attracted Kaminsky like so many others before him.

Anders

To be continued...

Anders · Nov 20, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Part 6 of 6

An answer came today to a question that had not even formulated in my mind. I will explain by defining the question. The question is why there is such a pull amongst people from "western" societies for these Cargo cults?

Coming to an end in a book by Burton Mack called â€œThe Lost Gospel of Q, the book of Christian Originsâ€ , I stumbled on this passage, that just rang a bell:

Christians seldom assess their world by making a direct comparison with the gospel story. Instead, as with all cultures and their myths, coded formulations reduce the mythic mode to attitudes, gestures, and cliches for negotiating the everyday world. A partial list of adjectives that express Christian mentality can illustrate the point. Christians grant privilege to personal performances and events that are unique, dramatic, original, charismatic, miraculous, radical, transformational, and apocalyptic. All else is often considered banal by comparison. The daily round, repetitious labor, customary chitchat, negotiations, compromises, folk wisdom, and ordinary humor all fail to create sensations. What counts as significant are crises, breakthroughs, victories, and transformations. With the gospels in place, one might note, the symbols for solving critical problems are a vicarious crucifixion at the beginning and an apocalyptic destruction at the end. Both coalesce in a meditation on destructive violence and creative transformation. The Jesus of Q hardly stands a chance of being recognized within this symbolic world.

and

Christian myth and western culture go together. This is true whether we imagine a long, continuous history of Christian influence on western forms of art, literature, thought, and politics, or whether we imagine a series of missions to expand the borders of western Christian empires.

I realized that common too all westerners is the substratum of Christianity, that is imbedded in the culture. It is like a unseen glue that hold everything together and for the most therefore never questioned. This is also what makes us westerners such easy prey for the cargo cults, as we long for intensity, peak experiences and eternal highs, which is constantly being promoted in the New Age scene in the name of spirituality. To repeat Mack:

A partial list of adjectives that express Christian mentality can illustrate the point. Christians grant privilege to personal performances and events that are unique, dramatic, original, charismatic, miraculous, radical, transformational, and apocalyptic.

and

What counts as significant are crises, breakthroughs, victories, and transformations.

Sounds familiar???

I can recommend the book for anyone from a Western background to gain a better perspective of early Christian origins and it's overwhelming influence on Western culture and thinking.

Anders

thorbiorn · Nov 21, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Anders in the first post of the thread said:
They told me that Bhagavan has the capacity of putting people into a "high state". He does that only with people he thinks are ready and willing. He calls these 'Cosmic Beings' and they are put into a state where they are basically vegetables. They no longer have a contact with their body and sit just motionless in a 'conscious state'. People have to feed them and move their limbs, so they basically sacrifice themselves for 'healing' the planet. They told me that they have an 'awesome energy' and that there currently are 16 people like that. The aim is to have 8000 beings like that 'radiating love' out to the world.

It seems to me that a good translation of a vegetable would be "a programmed individual".

One could use the word like in a question: "Is it possible to become a SOTT vegetable?" Or an answer like: "Yes, it is possible to become a SOTT vegetable, but it is not the goal." Which leads to the question how this could happen? Well, if one aspires for knowledge that one is not really ready for, or only understands superficially. It may be more a result of self-programming than outside intentional effort, and it may in fact help to learn the basis that later, one will understand. In other words I do not think all vegetable is bad. Most of us are some kind of vegetable through cultural programming, religious programming, mind programming and so on. But I do think it is of importance where the programming takes one, if the intention behind it is to enslave, or if its goal is to free after completed metamorphosis.

When it comes to programming and organisations, there are the options of programming, reprogramming, deprogramming and leaving the programming that is already there. From the perspective of the individual all the above are possible. In addition one may also be aware of ones programming or unaware. It is preferable to be aware. The path from unawareness to awareness may be through discovery.

Having introduced the inspiration and explained a few terms, I shall try to make some applications.

Is Oneness University mainly STS or STO? Anders indicated STS and I agree, lets say three parts of STS for one part of STO.

These numbers do not claim any authority, but how the balance of STO/STS in a group in principle would affect a member of a group is important and one of the questions I would like to resolve in this post.

For starters what groups would be possible in the light of STS and STO terminology:
A group, that will keep its members solidly in 3rd density.
A group influenced mainly by STS and that will tend to prepare its members for the direction of 4th density STS.
A group influenced mainly by STO that will tend or prepare its members mainly for the direction of 4th density STO.
A group influenced about equally by STS and STO that has something for both those who like to move into 4th density STO and STS.

I do not know if these combinations are realistic but certainly most of them are. There may also be other options but to keep it simple lets us work with these.

Next question would be what kind of group members could there be?
There could be Organic Portals, which according to the Cassiopaeans account for 50 % of the population.
There could be a quite large group of souled individuals well entrenched in 3rd density and for whom the consideration of 4th density is either a way off or not important right now. The size of this group I do not know but if 94 % are containers I guess this group could be large, more than forty percent.
The group of people whose destiny profile is taking them in the direction of 4th density STO is small but slightly larger possibly than the next group, which consists of people whose destiny profile is taking them in the direction of 4th density STS.

Putting numbers to all this is tricky, the reader may call them x, y, z, and s. Of interest are the categories and more important what happens to a person with a particular profile when he or she joins a particular group.

But before let us see what could be the perspective from 4th to 6th Density.
We can think of a grouping in 4th Density STS or even 3rd Density STS which is not interested in humans going to 4th Density be it STS or STO. These 4th Density STS may not like someone else joining up in 4th Density, because it could mean, more competition for them in 4th "Density and less food from 3rd Density.

There may also be a more "benevolent" level in 4th Density STS which perceives an advantage of having some new 4th Densities STS to help to control their 3rd Density subjects so they themselves can climb the ladder.

STS will in general not be interested in STO or anyone trying to graduate to fourth density, because the more people get to STO and the stronger the STO influence the less food there is for STS.

From the STO stand they will not try to prevent anyone from choosing STS and certainly not STO, they will assist those who ask be it STS or STO.

Now with this background one can look at what possibilities there are for someone who joins a group:

If one is among the 50 % OP''s , or the 3rd density well entrenched people, then one will have a better chance of growing if one is associated with an association that has a good amount of STO, because if one is with a group that has a lot of STS one will be a used as source of energy for STS and grow less except in the STS direction.

If one is having a destiny profile that is in the direction of 4th Density STS, then one will probably not grow sufficiently to graduate if one is with a group that keeps the members in 3rd Density STS. One will have more luck with a group that helps its members to grow to 4th Density STS.

But if one is moving toward 4th Density STS and happen to get involved in an STO group, then the work there may nevertheless help one to become more aware and move in one's direction at some stage. Simultaneously one's presence will probably obstruct the work of the STO group and this from a hyper-dimensional STS perspective can be useful.

If one is moving in a 4th Density STO direction and rather than working on polarising toward that, is diverted by a group that keeps its members solidly in 3rd density then the chances of much progress are slim.

If one has a 4th Density STO mission destiny profile, and instead of moving along with a group, that is STO orientation is associated with a group that takes their members to 4th Density STS, then also one is loosing in polarity and prolonging ones study of 3rd Density STS. However from the perspective of 4th Density STS it is good to keep such 4th density STO' candidates in the fold. Firstly they get delayed and detracted from what they really wanted to do, secondly they attract other STO candidates, and thirdly they help to give a benevolent face to an organisation and through that attract more members in general.

It is possible to imagine that a group with a good balance of STO and STS can help people on either the 4th Density STO or the 4th Density STS track. Also one option would be an organisation that has knowledge that helps people of STO orientation some of the way, but favours STS for the end result.

One question I have not dealt with is that of co-linearity. Two people may be moving together toward STO or STS but they are not doing it in the same way or at the same speed so by trying to move together they detract one another.

Another question is, if it is not possible that someone who is on the STS track or STO track gets so absorbed by the other option be it STS or STO that they change their fundamental choice. It should be possible, but I do not think it happens that often.

Now if one goes back to the question of the Oneness University. Can it help its members to 4th Density STS? If so that would make it a good option, if STS is where one wants to end up. However for someone with an STO destiny profile, if Oneness University is taking people closer to 4th Density STS, then it will not help these STO candidates to get to 4th Density STO, they will stay in 3rd Density or in the worst case for them choose STS 4th Density.

The question may be asked, if there is in fact a 1/4 of STO influence in the Oneness University will these 25 % not help the STO candidate to wake up to his or her own mission. I doubt it. What will help are the STO influences in the person's OWN soul, mind and life experience.

The conclusion of this little analysis is that it is important for a seeker is to find out where he or she is going. That insight may come in part by reflecting on where one has travelled already, how choices came into ones life and how one reacted to the choices presented. What was the heart saying, what the head? How was one convinced to make a choice, what were the arguments or the feelings?

If one was convinced by logic, were there any logical fallacies in the reasoning, or for that matter was there any reasoning at all? Not that reasoning is all that matters, practical experience is very valuable, but often looking before leaping is helpful. In this regard, one interesting exercise is to find out; what is a logical fallacy, what is propaganda technique and see how many of those are used to gather new members for groups?

"You know, it is marketing and since everyone does it, if we do not do it, who will be interested in what we have to say?" The last sentence was from a firewall. Many groups have a firewall in order to justify policies, to fend off competition and attackers from other similar or hostile groups, unsatisfied members etc. Sometimes a firewall includes legal agreements to be signed. Such firewalls are understandable from the viewpoint of the ones who make them, considering the environment we live in. The existence of firewalls do lead to another interesting exercise, which is a firewall analysis, that consists in finding out how reasonable a firewall is, how good the arguments, and also how solid the attacks are. Are the attackers just malcontents or are there valid reasons?

Some groups dissuade their members from analysis and doubts. Some groups would prefer to have only "vegetable" members with particular kind of vegetable. One variety is do not listen to your own head. Do not listen to your own heart. The reason for such advice may, from an STO point of view be that, it is possible that STS hides behind a facade of analysis and doubt. From an STS point the opposite may also be true that STO hides behind the doubts and the analysis.

In either case, if one is following such instruction as to not analyse and not doubt, then there is nothing to do. And maybe one should not, if one is already on the STS track or possibly a fakir or monk hoping that what one does, will lead to the inherently preferred polarity

STS is not only about Serving Self, it is also about choosing what one wishes to see and ignoring what does not fit. Similarly STO it is not only about serving others, not only about seeing what is, it is also about seeing the unseen:

Seeing the unseen is not easy,
The unseen is difficult to see,
If the unseen is everywhere
It is also inside.
That is not far away.

If the unseen IS everywhere,
Why only look inside?
The unseen hides behind
The signs and the seen,
Inside, outside, and everywhere.

The overall conclusion is that it is ones own responsibility to take care that the associations one makes are in accordance with ones own deepest preferences, in favour of ones own destiny. Becoming a vegetable part of the way may be helpful for some, but it is not an excuse.

thorbiorn

dant · Nov 21, 2006

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

I have been briefly thinking about what "pulled me in" to Catholocism and tried to
see if this method is the same for other religions but with variations on the theme.

Since 70% of the New Testament alone is said to be false, that means there is 30%
of truth embedded somewhere in there. Ok, so there is truth "sandwiched" between
lies, all to "help" the lie being accepted.

I think what is happening here, is there there is somehow a truth that you might recognize
and yet there are still some questions that is not explained because after all the truth is
"sandwiched" between lies. In other words, the 'truth' somehow resonates but the truth
is incomplete and the seeker sets out to complete the understanding so who do you think
they will seek for the answers? Will they seek for a "priest", "bishop", "Imam", "master",
"guru", "psyhic", "palm reader", ... and/or if you are part of a congregation, group, ...,
what chances does the seeker have to find a true master who represents the 'truth'?

I think here is where the bait or trap is set. The seeker is primed, fully exposed, and
thus the 'careful work is begun' on the seeker by the so-called "master", ready to be
programmed whatever is desired on the part of the "master". The "tools of the trade"
may include tactics to assist in the teaching be it the 'power of speaking in tongues',
'laying of the hands", reciting latin or foreign words on the seeker, a quick dip in the
pool of 'holy water', blissful singing, dancing, and so on that really may only serve as
a distraction away from the truth being sought. Is the answers to what the seeker is
given completely or partially so as to cause the seeker to ask more questions, ad
infinitum?

I was caught in this way, but it was not until later in my life that I recognized that
somehow the 'truths' I was given were lies, and so I took the time to do independent
research and there I found the lies and now trying to dump the belief systems that
I inherited.

So, with this one narrow perspective, I can see how cargo-cults works, to ensnare a
dupe due to the ignorant/innocent/vernurable states the seeker puts themselves into
and into the hands of the vipers.

I recall:

Matthew 7:1-14 said:
1Judge not, that ye be not judged. 2For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged:
and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured unto you. 3And why beholdest thou
the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me cast out the mote out of thine eye; and lo, the
beam is in thine own eye? 5Thou hypocrite, cast out first the beam out of thine own eye;
and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. [Clearly, remove
your own ignornace before attempting to corrupt the seeker of their own "ignorance" for
yours may be more of ignorance than theirs?]

6Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast your pearls before the swine,
lest haply they trample them under their feet, and turn and rend you. [Ah, so do not
give "love/light' to one who does not ask?]

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened
unto you: 8for every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to
him that knocketh it shall be opened. [channeling?]

9Or what man is there of you, who, if his son shall ask him for a loaf, will give him a
stone; 10or if he shall ask for a fish, will give him a serpent? 11If ye then, being evil,
know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father who
is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? 12All things therefore whatsoever
ye would that men should do unto you, even so do ye also unto them: for this is the
law and the prophets. [so, is the seeker seeking truth given a stone or a snake in return
by the master or the STS?]

13Enter ye in by the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth
to destruction, and many are they that enter in thereby. 14For narrow is the gate, and
straitened the way, that leadeth unto life, and few are they that find it. [So, if you received
something the "easy way", perhaps you are are not getting it because of your ignorance?]

thorbiorn · Feb 22, 2007

The New Age ‘Enlightenment Business’ – Western style Cargo cults

Anders said:
I discovered how difficult it is to talk to people about this issue of the cargo-cults. Most of these difficulties are due to limiting beliefs and severe lack of knowledge.
Some of the difficulties are
1) A rigid belief that we are on the top of the foodchain.
2) Unwillingness to look at the possibility of hyperdimensional realities
3) Belief that Enlightenment is always STO (service to other) oriented.
4) Believing that all people have the best interest of humanity at heart.
5) Unwillingness to consider the possibility of evil.
6) A belief that there is no harm in trying.
7) Believing in a free lunch universe. The ability to get something for nothing.
8) A desperate wanting to see good in the world, to the point of negating what is.
9) General lack of knowledge.

In the context of the points Anders mentioned, especially 1), 2), 3), 6), 8) and 9) there are a several passages from the Cassiopaean transcripts that are interesting.

Some of the topics mentioned below are false prophets, 'transcendental', "Fisher King", a choice of STS, people as possible tools, healing, knowledge, freewill, what distinguishes STS from STO in relation to experiences and clues of how to find out what is of STO and what of STS.

950111 said:
Q: (B) Maitreya... What is the destiny of this person in this lifetime?
A: Plays prominent role in disinformation process.
Q: (B) Is Benjamin Creme aware of that?
A: No.
Q: (B) Are the E.T.s putting thoughts in Benjamin Creme's head?
A: Yes.
Q: (B) What is their purpose in this?
A: To cause confusion, diversion, and deception so that reality channels may be cloaked. Self explanatory.
Q: (B) Does this mean so that what we think is real really isn't?
A: Close.
Q: (B) This must mean that the Aliens want to give us one person to focus on which is so spectacular, so that we cannot see the truth.
A: Remember warnings about false prophets in the "desert."

Even if a true prophet, it is not easy to be in a desert as the following example shows:

941004 said:
Q: (L) Why was Moses not allowed into the promised land?
A: Because he became tyrannical.
Q: (L) Were the Lizards the ones who led the Jews to the "Promised Land?"
A: No. Were not led; followed their own paths in effort to escape the effects of cataclysms.
Q: (L) Why have they got this big legend about being chosen and led to the promised land?
A: More brotherhood influence and nonsense.

941022 said:
Q: (L) Did any aliens at all, and specifically the Lizzies, ever live among mankind and receive worship?
A: They did not live among mankind, but they did interact directly with human beings, at various points in the past. It was at those points when human beings were ready, willing and able to accept deities appearing directly from outside sources and then worship them. Such things would not have occurred in the recent past. But, beware, it may very well occur very soon.

941107 said:
Q: (L) Who was the god that spoke to Moses on the mount?
A: Audible projection of Lizards.
Q: (L) Did Moses at any time realize that he had been duped by the Lizzies?
A: No.
Q: (L) Yet, the other night you said that Moses is also doing work with Christ on another plane, is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Well, if he was misled by the Lizzies, how did he get to be a good guy?
A: Taught afterward.
Q: (L) After what?
A: Plane transfer.
Q: (L) Did Moses die?
A: No.
Q: (L) Who took him?
A: Us.

941016 said:
Q: (L) Where did Moses get his knowledge?
A: Us.
Q: (L) Okay, you told us before that he saw or interacted with a holographic projection created by the Lizard Beings. Was that the experience on Mount Sinai?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Okay, well, if he got knowledge from you, did he get this prior to the interactions with the Lizard beings?
A: Yes. He was corrupted by imagery. He was deceived by the imagery a la Joseph Smith, for example.
Q: (L) Are you saying that Joseph Smith, the recipient of the Mormon texts, was deceived by the Lizards also?
A: Yes. They do that a lot.

Below are referred to two situations, where there was more concrete interaction.

941020 said:
Q: Who built the city of Mohenjo-Daro?
A: Lizards directly. Coatzlmundi legend ties in to this directly look at illustrations on stones now.
Q: Who is Coatzlmundi?
A: Other deity of the Lizards worshipped by the Atlanteans and their descendants because of the direct contact with humans for 1000 years.
Q: Now, you said Mohenjo Daro was built by the Lizzies directly. Did they occupy this city themselves?
A: No.
Q: When was this city last inhabited continually?
A: 3065 years ago.
Q: When was it built?
A: 6092 years ago.

980822 said:
Q: We watched this television show the other night which talked about the city of Angkor Wat and its orientation to Draco 10,500 BC. You said that Angkor Wat was built 3108 years ago by the Lizzies themselves, and that the city of Mohenjo Daro was also built by the Lizzies 3065 years ago, which is within 30 or 40 years of the same time period. Do you still confirm that the Lizzies themselves built these cities?
A: Reptilian Beings.
Q: And they did this themselves?
A: Yes.
Q: What happened to the inhabitants of these cities?
A: Taken to another planet.
Q: Why was this city built in orientation to the constellation Draco?
A: Was not, was a record: see the texts of Kaballah for details after linkage is established.
Q: After what linkage is established.
A: Between the astronomical data and the sites.

The following excerpt introduces the idea of transcendental existence:

Laura Knight Jadczyk said:
Q: (L) Who were the "Followers of Horus"?
A: Those who held the 3rd insight.
Q: (L) What was the 3rd insight?
A: There are 10. The third involves transcendental existence.

Apparently there is more to knowledge than transcendental existence:

970705 said:
Q: Okay. I am not going to get into all of this, but I would like to know the significance of the Fisher King?
A: Do you mean of the person or of the designation?
Q: The designation, first.
A: The one who resides within a circular continuum.
Q: What about the significance of the person?
A: Transcendental.
Q: What is a circular continuum?
A: Trapped within the grasp of one's own significance, to the exclusion of the acquisition of a broader knowledge base and understanding.

>From the last phrase it follows that the 'acquisition of a broader knowledge base and understanding' is a remedy.

The concept of king used above can in common use include spiritual kings, business kings as well as the "real" ones:

991204 said:
Q: […] What are the pre-ordained activities of royal bloodlines?
A: Control.
Q: Control of what? People?
A: Close.
Q: Control of the reality in some sense?
A: Not as close.
Q: Control as in STS domination?
A: Yes.

It follows that royal bloodlines are tools of control but they are not the only ones.
The next quote originally appeared in the context of a question regarding a particular business corporation. The answer given although implicit, extends to spiritual corporations too.

990102 said:
Q: I was just concerned about this thing with Constellation. They strike me as a bizarre bunch of people...
A: All corporations are ultimately linked to the same source, either directly or indirectly.

Having reviewed what the situation is at the top of the hierachy, next is an example of what a life-path choice may appear like, if the seeker is of STS orientation:

020330 said:
Q: (L) Speaking of battles: I want to know just really what is in F's mind, what are his motives? (V) What does he have to gain from all of this?
A: He is a tool of 4d STS. He has chosen.
Q: (V) He has chosen? Okay, if somebody goes to the store and they choose to get rye bread instead of white bread, he chose it like that? Or did he choose it like...
A: He came to this incarnation with a plan remembered as he awoke.
Q: (L) It was already a pre-made choice? (B) The choice was made on a different level and he's just now making that choice manifest? (V) Is this Karmic?
A: Choice. Some love light, and some love darkness.
Q: (L) When did he wake up and have this realization? Was he lying and deceiving all of us, all along from the beginning?
A: He was half awake. But like many he was confused.
Q: (L) Confused in what way?
A: He did not fully understand the symbols of your world.
Q: (L) So at what point did he finally understand that he was different from us and we would never be on the same track?
A: He was awake as early as late 1998 or early 1999.
Q: (V) Did Ark's arrival spur on this awakening?
A: Partly.
Q: (V) I'm also curious, since we're talking about what he is thinking, does he have regrets? Is he regretting what's happened, what's come about?
A: He is only capable of regretting that he did not get what he wanted.
Q: (V) Okay, so he is a tool of 4th density STS...what is the payoff for F, what does he think the payoff is?
A: He is lost in the illusion of his own importance. He believes that others agree with his assessment.

Below are two excerpts that explain some of the difference of how STO and STS relate to experiences.

020223 said:
Q: (R) Alright, I think I'm done with this, I'm okay with the answers. (V) I'll ask something unless someone else was ready to go. Twice maybe in the last 3 or 4 years - once at USF and once in my apartment - I was walking along and all of the sudden the environment had totally changed and it was like I was a light person. Can you tell me what that was?
A: 4D bleed through. We mentioned before that you ought to get used to it.
Q: (V) Well, it is not a "getting used to thing." It only happened twice and it was magnificent. I mean it was an experience. I can say now that I am experienced. (laughter) (L) And not Jimmy Hendrix! (V) Is there any way to generate this myself? It was just so spontaneous?
A: STS do that.
Q: (V) Do what? (L) Seek to generate such experiences for the sake of the experience. (R) Bring it on through the matrix, through technology, rituals, drugs, whatever.

990828 said:
Q: What I am saying is: if a person can simply BE, in the doing and being of who and what they are, in simplicity; to become involved in doing everything as a meditation, or as a consecration, whether they are walking down the street and being at one with the air, the sunshine, the birds and trees and other people; in this state of oneness, doesn't that constitute a giving to the universe as giving oneself up as a channel for the universe to experience all these things?
A: Not if one is "feeling this oneness."
Q: We are what we are. Nature is nature. Progression is progression. And if people would just relax and be who and what they are in honesty, and do what is according to their nature without violating the Free Will of others, that this is a more pure form of being than doing things out of any feeling of expectation, or desire; to just BE, not want... just BE?
A: Yes, but STS does not do that.
Q: (A) From which I draw conclusions: if there STS around us, we cannot just...
A: You are all STS. If you were not, you would not be where you are.
Q: (A) There are those who are happy in the STS mode; and there are those who are trying to get out of the STS mode...
A: STO candidate.

In the excerpt from 020330 Laura used the expression 'tool of 4d STS' with regard to a person. In the continuation of the same sesseion there are more reflections on the concept of a tool, and why it is important to know how a tool functions if one is to avoid becoming a tool of the tool:

020330 said:
Q: (L) I think the way the question was asked before - does repeated applications of Reiki heal Karma even, and the answer was 'yes'. I think that something that heals Karma just about covers everything...since that is very often our major concern in this reality. (V) Laura and I were looking at these Karuna Reiki symbols earlier and discussing them, can you offer some insight as to their validity?
A: Give them a try and research background of originator. You may discover something very interesting.
Q: (V) Well, I have used them, not to a great extent. The one that I have used the most is the Rama symbol which is used to dispel or expel negative energy. Does this symbol do what they claim it does?
A: Do you think that a symbol can control your consciousness, or the consciousness of another?
Q: (V) I guess I've been thinking it's a tool just as this is a tool (holds up symbol displayed earlier). No I don't think a symbol can control consciousness...when it's put that way. But I want to say that I think they can be used as tools also. Not to be right or anything but this my thinking at this time.
A: What quality of an individual would have to be present to set the effect of a symbol against consciousness?
Q: (V) I don't understand that. (L) I think they are saying that the presence of a negative energy implies the presence of a negative consciousness. It's either the consciousness of the individual who is experiencing it or it is the consciousness being projected from somebody else. And if one or the other of those is the condition - say for example: if you had negative energy that was being sent to you from someone else, and you wanted to set this symbol against that negative energy, what quality would have to be present in you in order to make that work? (V) A lack of negativity. (L) I don't think so. You already have negativity right? So you're going to use the symbol to make it go away assuming it was sent on you. So what do you have to have to make the symbol work? (V) A conscious effort? (L) Faith. You have to believe in the symbol. And if you believe in the symbol then you are putting the power in something outside of you, you don't believe that you have the ability to stand against the negative consciousness. On the other hand, if the consciousness of negativity is your own, and you believe a symbol can stand against your own negativity, you haven't inquired into where the negativity comes from. (A) You see a tool is something which you must know exactly how it operates, because otherwise it's not a tool; you are the tool of something else - the originator of the tool who may not have your best interests at heart. So you must exactly know, and have precise knowledge of, the tool if it is to be a tool. So a tool is a projection - an extension - of what is in you.
A: Otherwise you are the tool of the tool
Q: [laughter]. (L) You are the tool of the tool if you don't have real understanding of what it is and what it is supposed to do. (A) Okay, so if it looks like a nice bomb... (L) Push the button. Don't know what the bomb does, but let me push the button anyway and see what happens! (V) Well, okay. (L) I know, ain't it fun? […]

In the same session there is a discussion of the choices of a seeker and the role of free will, including a passage on the phenomenon of healing which I include because many initially join a group in order to find some kind of healing.

020330 said:
Q: [There was further discussion between Laura and V with regard to the Karuna Reiki system of healing that led to the following question] (V) From what density do the symbols come from? Are they STS or STO?
A: 3rd money growing density.
Q: (V) So it wasn't even channeled?
A: Most of the symbols can be found in other literature in whole or in part.
[…]
Q: [Laughter] (V) […] Hmmm, 3rd money growing density...what people will say or do, it just amazes me, blows me away. (L) It gets so bad. The more layers you peel away the worse it gets. it's like you just want to run screaming "I want out of this place." (V) I'm going to be brave here and ask if it's possible to get a symbol this evening that may work on viruses? (L) Viruses? (V) I know ...okay I'm back to the same question of consciousness.
A: Viruses make inroads only when there exists gaps in consciousness. A full field of awareness closes the gaps. Heal the soul by means of increased knowledge which leads to DNA modification which closes gaps...To do it otherwise amounts to self violation of lesson profiles elected by the self.
Q: (A) What about the healers? All these healers they go around the world and they heal. Most of the time, their effects are temporary. Will they heal only those people who come and ask? And usually when they come and ask, they are asking in a specific way for them to be healed. I mean I don't know what is so specific but, the question is, of course, they don't close the consciousness gap. Or do they? How do they heal? I mean, they can kill even viruses some way. How do they do that?
A: If the healing is true, it occurs at multiple levels. It is an interaction of prior choice potential.
Q: (V) So it is going to work because it is time, or it is your destiny. I guess. (B) If it works, it must mean that the individual has chosen to allow it to work at that particular time, and the healer is more of a facilitator of the personal choice - at a higher level - of an individual.
A: Yes.
Q: (A) A kind of transaction between the two. (L) It's like the switch, it was ready to happen, and the "healing activity" just flipped the switch. It was ready (B) Healing comes from inside. Whether it is psychic or physical, we may rely on other triggers. (L) Yeah we may use all kinds of symbols in our world the way we use words to convey our ideas. We can use interactions between human beings to convey our readiness and willingness to move into a new way of being. (A) The healers maybe don't know what they do,it's just the right thing, they're there at the moment, they are there, the person is there. (V) As long as they are not doing it from their ego. (L) Right. I think it is as much a matter of "here is a person who needs it" and "there's the person who instinctively knows what to do and how to do it and they do because they can do it." They're the person of the moment - the "man of the hour" - and it is there in front of them. It's like walking down the street and there's a piece of paper: do you walk by it or pick it up? (A) But there may be something more. I'm thinking about this Bulgarian guy D**. He apparently has some psychic abilities and he went into research. So now he was telling me about these bad guys who are using this ability for mind control and such things. But he wrote one thing that was kind of unexpected from him. Maybe he read it from our pages, but probably not. He said that even those people cannot do anything unless the given person is willing to be controlled. (L) But that is true only at a deep level. It's pretty clear that STS can violate the free will of those who are ignorant of their existence and abilities. So D** is just repeating New Age nonsense. That's what the folks doing mind control experiments would like us all to think. Yes, it is true that the person must, of their own free will, choose. A person who has chosen, at a very deep level, to seek truth, to ultimately receive positive energy, will be motivated by negative experiences to increase their knowledge, which then increases their awareness, which then increases their abilities of STO to communicate with and interact with other similar people. People use their free will - at very deep levels - to choose to be duped and manipulated. This is either because STS is their ultimate choice and destination, or it is because they need to learn the lesson about growing their awareness. When they choose to refuse to seek knowledge they have already chosen. When they choose belief over seeking and being open they have already chosen.
A: In all cases freewill is paramount even if it is not apparent at this level.

The ones to be healed, the process of healing and the healers can take many forms:

950812 said:
Q: (SV) I have a question. JR and TR have been taking sort of lessons from a Buddhist monk. Could this possibly help them, or us, to go within or help with issues?
A: Any method employed can be helpful for, as you say, resolving issues or with coming up with answers, if indeed the effort is sincere and the seeking is genuine, rather than just going through the motions, as it were.

The term freewill was mentioned and for possibilities of increasing freewill one may refer to Chapter 12 of "The Secret History of the World". On page 561 of a version from 2005 there are some quotes from the transcripts with comments. In the original transcripts there are even more excerpts which may have application with regard to this thread. Some are included next. To facilitate the reading I have inserted 'the facts' where only referred to as numbers. For fact four below, note this was said in 1996.

There was an 'A:' missing as far as I could gather from the context. It has been written as [A:].

960714 said:
Q: (L) And some of the manifestations of a Realm Border Crossing are that some people graduate or transition to 4th density, that their awareness changes, everything changes, the playing field is leveled. So, what happened in Germany was a 'practice run' but what is going to happen is that the 'playing field' is going to be leveled, so it will not be exactly the same scenario, is this a correct assessment?
A: Maybe. Alright, my dear, you want the facts, so we will give them to you, and hopefully you will comprehend. If not now, then when necessary maybe... Fact one: All there is -- is lessons. Fact two: this is one big school. Fact three: Timing as you perceive it, is never, NEVER definite. Fact four: What is to happen, as you state it, is a ways off, and will not occur until you have reached that point on the learning cycle, and you are not close yet. Now ponder before more facts are given!!
Q: (L) Okay, this being one infinite school and we all seem to be wandering around in the darkness...
[A:] Fact five: The learning cycle is variable, and progress along it is determined by events and circumstances as they unfold.
[…]
Q: (L) Okay, we want some hints. And Ark wants some hints, too! He wants to know if we can invent a tool that enhances free will?
A: No tool is needed because of facts 3, 4, and 5. [Fact three: Timing as you perceive it, is never, NEVER definite. Fact four: What is to happen, as you state it, is a ways off, and will not occur until you have reached that point on the learning cycle, and you are not close yet. […] Fact five: The learning cycle is variable, and progress along it is determined by events and circumstances as they unfold.]
Q: (L) Ummm... So, when a person is being hypnotized and controlled from outside, because that is the matter of concern we were discussing earlier, they are hypnotized and controlled until they learn to stop it?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, using the analogy of the pig sty, they just have to wallow in it and suffer until they have had enough?
A: Using your analogy of the bicycle: Is there a tool which makes it unnecessary for the child to learn how to ride the bicycle in order to know how to ride it?!?
Q: (MM) Don't you get more free will by assimilating knowledge?
A: Yes!! Yes!!
Q: (L) So, in other words, knowledge and awareness makes you aware that you have free will, and also makes you aware of what actions actually ARE acts of free will, and therefore, when you know or suspect the difference between the lies and deception and truth, then you are in a position to be in control of your life?
A: Yes.
[…]
A: Faith comes also from knowledge, and as we have stated before... False knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all!!!!!
Q: (L) So, it is important to take each and every thing that is being learned or analyzed, and take it completely apart and dig in every direction around it, and even in related directions, to FULLY ascertain that it is true? As C.S. Lewis said, knowledge is like a rope... as long as you are using it to tie up a box, it doesn't matter whether it is perfect or not, but if you have to use it to hang over a precipice, then it behooves you to make absolutely certain that it is strong enough to support your weight.
A: Yes.
[…]
Q: (L) […]Next: "Is it possible that, under drug influence, psychics, or those with mental capabilities above the norm, can be hooked up to some type of machine and are enabled thereby to create some type of physical form?"
A: Possible. Now review: The "Greys" are cybergenetic probes of the "Lizard" beings, so just exactly who is doing the assisting? And who is behind the Lizard types?? Could it be your ancestors, perhaps!?!
[…]
A: First things first: Who is doing the assisting? And how is the assisting being done?!!!!!!???
Q: (L) Well, they say that the Grays are assisting the Consortium, this is the Hopi material... Who is doing the assisting? Hmmmm... give me a clue... I think that the Nordic aliens are controlling the Lizards, who created the Grays, which are probes of the Lizards, and are purportedly assisting the Consortium...
A: Assisting? Or maybe influencing?!? And if so, how so?!? And, is not this the whole point? Are you not ultimately influenced always?!? In EVERYTHING you do? We have stated thus numerous times... So, please let us not get off the track, okay?
Q: (L) In other words, as long as we are in the pigsty, we are in the pigsty, and until we get OUT of it, we are IN it?
A: Until you reach that point on the learning cycle.
[…]
A: "Passion" does not set one "free," quite the opposite!
Q: (L) But what if your passion is for knowledge?
A: That is not passion, it is soul questing.
Q: (L) What is it that gives some people this drive, this steamroller effect that they are determined to get to the absolute bottom of everything and strip away every lie until there is nothing left but the naked truth? What is the source of this desire?
A: Wrong concept. It is simply that one is at that point on the learning cycle. At that point, no drive is needed.
[…]
A: It is a single cycle, yes. There is only one learning cycle, and where you are upon it, determines your EXPERIENCES, and vice versa.
Q: (L) Is there ever any point where lines connect from one point on the cycle so that you can 'jump' from one point to another? Like a wormhole in space or something?
A: Refer to facts 1 and 2 and 3. [Fact one: All there is -- is lessons. Fact two: this is one big school. Fact three: Timing as you perceive it, is never, NEVER definite.]
Q: (L) So, no short cuts?
A: Now, refer to 3,4 and 5. . [Fact three: Timing as you perceive it, is never, NEVER definite. Fact four: What is to happen, as you state it, is a ways off, and will not occur until you have reached that point on the learning cycle, and you are not close yet. […] Fact five: The learning cycle is variable, and progress along it is determined by events and circumstances as they unfold.]
Q: (L) So, certain events and circumstances could help a person to make 'leaps?'
A: No "leap," acceleration.
Q: (L) One thing, previously when we were talking about unstable gravity waves, and I asked what caused them to become unstable, you said 'utilization,' and that STO was dispersion, and STS was 'collection' of gravity. I have made a few conjectures about this and would like to ask, does this mean that in giving to others, even if what you are giving is a withholding of assistance because you know that assistance would only prolong the lesson, is dispersing gravity, and exerting mental or other control over others, even if one is unaware that they are attaching energy drains to another, is collecting gravity?
A: Close.
Q: (L) So, when you collect gravity, you become like a black hole, you cave in on yourself?
A: Ultimately.
Q: (L) And it seems to me that one of the objects of what we are doing is releasing the gravity collected in ourselves?
A: If that is your choice, or if that is your path.
Q: (L) Is choice as intimately connected with the path as I am understanding it? Is it just simply part of how you are configured in your soul essence?
A: Close.
Q: (L) And there are people for whom STS is simply their choice. It is their path.
A: Close.
Q: (L) So, it is a judgment and a disservice to try to convert someone to your path, even if you perceive the end result of the path they are on, that it leads to dissolution? It is still their path?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) And, if you send 'buckets of love and light' to such a one, and that is their path, you are violating their free will?
A: You might as well send "buckets" of vomit as that is how they will react.
[…]
A: Judgment is STS.
[…]
A: Just remember: All prophecies attached to calendar dates are useless unless you wish to be sucked up by the 4th density STS forces!
Q: (L) Speaking of being sucked up by 4th density STS forces, MM was told by her local Hindu gathering that she was vacuuming up their energies. What kind of an interaction was this? Why were they so uncomfortable?
A: Because they wished to be worshipped.
Q: (L) They wished to suck her energy, because being worshipped is the equivalent of sucking energy?
A: Close.

The last citation in this post discusses the role of using one's gut feelings for deciding what is of the truth.

950531 said:
Q: (SV) There is a book out called "Mary's Message to the World" by Ann Kirkwood. Is this book a transmission from the Virgin Mary?
A: No.
Q: (L) Who is this transmission from?
A: Various thought centers.
Q: (L) Why do these thought centers identify themselves as the Virgin Mary?
A: For purposes of familiarity.
Q: (L) Are these thought centers STS or STO?
A: Open. Discover by studying previously given information. You should review the material regularly, not just to familiarize yourselves with data, but also to learn by piecing together thought pattern segments!
Q: (L) If I remember correctly, there have been numerous presentations of the Virgin Mary put forward for disinformation purposes by the STS groups. Is that correct?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) Have there also been presentations of the Virgin Mary put forward by the STO groups?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) So, depending upon the results, and the teaching, that would be what would enable one to determine whether it is STO or STS?
A: Partly.
Q: (L) Is there some other measuring stick that we can use to determine whether teachings are correct or incorrect?
A: Wisdom by way of instincts; all there is -- is lessons.
Q: (SV) I was thinking about that earlier today. If you are under attack, how do you know if your instincts are correct? (L) Are instincts different from emotions?
A: Yes.
Q: (L) How can you tell the difference between instinctive knowledge and emotional reactions?
A: Emotions involve wishful thinking, instincts are "gut feelings," psychic in nature, and are stronger. When it is wishful thinking, there is always psychic instinct seeping through which you can access if you use reason and examine your lessons of the past.
Q: (L) Well, for example, the lady at the MUFON meeting on Saturday, her response to TR's comments on channeled material as being STS, was that we were focusing on the darkness, or negativity, and that people who focus on darkness or negativity experience same. Could you comment on this please?
A: What do your instincts tell you?
Q: (L) My instincts tell me that she is wanting to believe so strongly and emotionally, that the aliens who have been abducting her are good guys, and that somehow she is so laden with an internal guilt complex that she believes that she deserves that kind of treatment, and that anything that is to the contrary, she rejects as wrong and evil.
A: Okay.
Q: (L) And, furthermore, it occurred to me that a person who really focuses on the darkness with the intention of participation is someone who moves away from the light and goes into the darkness, whereas someone who focuses on the darkness with the intention of diminishing it, keeps the light close to their back, and uses it to energize their own light so that they can illuminate the darkness. Is that correct?
A: Okay.
Q: (L) And, that someone who only looks at light, has their back turned to the darkness, not only are they blinded by the light, but they are also casting a shadow behind them.
A: "The Emperor is wearing new clothes."
Q: (L) Am I the one who is thinking the Emperor is wearing new clothes? (F) I would think that anyone who is hung up on the idea that there is nothing but light as long as you are willing to only see light is believing that the Emperor is wearing new clothes. (L) Is F*** correct?
A: Yes.

"The Emperor's New Clothes" is the title of a fairytale written by Hans Christian Andersen, born in 1805, Odense, Denmark. Shortly told, two swindlers pretending to be master tailors come to the capital of the country and are lucky to get the job of providing new clothes to the emperor. The two work very hard sewing in the air while telling everyone that they are indeed busy working on the most glorious clothes ever made. Their suggestions to the spectators have effect. Finally the day arrives and the emperor is dressed up in the new royal dress before going on a special tour in his royal chariot. Everybody, both the rich and the poor are on the street admiring and praising the new attire of their respected head of state, until a small boy notices that from his point of view the emperor has no clothes on. This he innocently says aloud! All the people suddenly wake up and realise the truth about "The Emperor's New Clothes".

Thorbiorn

The New Age 'Enlightenment Business' (Deeksha Oneness)

Anders

Guest

lonenutter

Guest

Mr. Premise

The Living Force

Ryan

The Living Force

Bholanath

Jedi

Anders

Guest

Anders

Guest

Anders

Guest

Anders

Guest

dant

The Living Force

Anders

Guest

Anders

Guest

thorbiorn

The Living Force

dant

The Living Force

thorbiorn

The Living Force