Question Regarding Psychopaths

" In spite of their deficiencies as regards normal psychological and moral knowledge, they develop and then have at their disposal a knowledge of their own, something lacked by people with a natural worldview.

They learn to recognize each other in a crowd as early as childhood, and they develop an awareness of the existence of other individuals similar to them.

They also become conscious of being different from the world of those other people surrounding them. They view us from a certain distance, take a paraspecific variety." - Lobaczewski

I am not sure if I missed something here or there is something I am not understanding or if the above statement Lobaczewski made is expounded upon and we have to wait for his book. Do we know precisely HOW psychopaths "recognize each other"? I am curious about this, especially if they can spot each other in a crowd as early as childhood.

My apologies if I've placed this in an inappropriate spot.

I am only another reader such as yourself but I will try to answer.I think it would be along the same lines as say..musicians can pick out other musicians or homosexuals can point out other homosexuals by the way they present themselves and the demeanor etc.. I think.
Those arent the greatest of examples but something along those lines.

Hi Annette,

Imagine someone without the emotional barometer we all have. Think of how often your perceptions of the world are coloured by your feelings about people or groups or situations. We all act based upon that kind of filter.

Now imagine that you never had it, that none of those emotional pulls and tugs were in place affecting how you viewed the world. How would the world be? How would you see people acting upon those emotions? You would certainly notice the difference. You might think they were pretending, but in talking with them, you would see that they were feeling something that you never did.

Moreover, to 'fit in' you would have to learn to mimic these emotions, these reactions that are expressed in facial gestures and body movements. They would mean nothing to you, but you would learn that they were necessary for social adaptation. You would be play-acting your humanity.

So from the very start you would feel a difference, your difference, from those who were around you.

Not only that, you would quickly learn that by mimicking these gestures, you could manipulate people. Martha Stout, in her book The Sociopath Next Door, says that the pity play is the most reliable sign of unscrupulous behaviour:

Notes from Stout said:

"The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy." p. 107

We allow pathetic individuals to get away with murder. They use pity to manipulate.

"More than admiration -- more even than fear -- pity from good people is carte blanche." p. 108

"Pity and sympathy are forces for good when they are reactions to deserving people who have fallen on misfortune. But when these sentiments are wrestled out of us by the undeserving, by people whose behavior is consistently anti-social, this is a sure sign that something is wrong, a potentially useful danger signal that we often overlook." p. 108

"They must learn to appear emotional as you or I would learn a second language, which is to say by observation, imitation, and practice. And just as you or I, with practice, might become fluent in another language, so an intelligent psychopath may become convincingly fluent in 'conversational emotion'." p. 128

They see it in films, can read about it in books. They can learn the physical moves, how to play at emotion.

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With practice, we can learn to see through the acting. We can tell when someone isn't being sincere, or when there is no real depth to the feeling being expressed. These types of people can change their emotions on a dime. One minute they are playing the victim, or throwing things, and then they switch and act like nothing happened while you're left with a wrenched gut because of what you have just lived through, sometimes taking days to recover.

If we can learn to see through it in spite of the emotions surging inside, it might be easy for one psychopath to spot the histrionics of another.

Danny said:

I am only another reader such as yourself but I will try to answer.I think it would be along the same lines as say..musicians can pick out other musicians or homosexuals can point out other homosexuals by the way they present themselves and the demeanor etc.. I think.
Those arent the greatest of examples but something along those lines.

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I'm glad you brought this up, Danny, because I was hesitant to, but since you did....
Actually, it has been my experience that the accuracy with which one homosexual can identify, upon first sight, another homosexual is extremely high - (yes, I'm gay) - it's a very weird experience, but I've never been mistaken when I get that feeling that someone is gay - even if the person themselves doesn't realize or accept that fact until years later - I can still tell. My point is that I wonder if a similar thing does happen between psychopaths. Whether it is caused by subliminal clues, a similar energy pattern, or whatever, this is a very real phenomenon and I'd bet that this same type of mechanism is at play when one essential psychopath instantly recognizes another. It could just be that they recognize similarities with each other in the way they behave, but my money is on a much more subtle 'knowing' than that. I could, of course, be way off, but it's just some food for thought.

Annette1 wrote “Do we know precisely HOW psychopaths "recognize each other"? I am curious about this, especially if they can spot each other in a crowd as early as childhood.”

While I have no definitive answer either, I agree with Henry in that they recognize humans as being different from themselves—perhaps they sort the nonpsychopathic humans out first and then “test” who is left for recognition.

More importantly, I think it is crucial for nonpath humans to attempt to be able to spot them ASAP because they are hunting for us! They are predators looking for a feed be it your pity, love, goodwill, sex, money, drugs, stuff, shelter, jobs, reputation, even your Dog—NOTHING is sacred to them.

Even after a person has had intimate experience with a psychopath-antipersonality disorder-OP-abuser it can be nearly impossible to spot them right away without some time (months) of observation. To me, despite the different labels attached to them in various texts, the functional ones appear to present in practically the same manner, but vary in how intensely they act out on a scale from high-functioning emotional abuser to the violent serial killer. IMO, only the very low functioning, drooling cannibals are likely to be detected at first meeting, and maybe then only if they are having a bad day.

Psychologist Lundy Bancroft, author of “Why Does He Do That?” which I highly, highly recommend for all humans, has conducted group therapy sessions for court-ordered “abusers,” many, if not most of who fit Stout, Cleckley and others’, definition of “psychopath,” for almost twenty years and writes that they are so practiced at disarming their victims, so seductive, so smooth at telling you want you want to hear that even many professional doctors, lawyers, judges etc. have difficultly discerning them without enough time for observation.

I had the chilling experience of psychopath in-my-life number 3 scoffing at me after I had emotionally burst out with “I’ve learned my lesson—I’m leaving and I will be free of you!” only have to have him sarcastically sneer that within six months I would be “hooked right back up with another con man and not even know it.” And he was right—it took my two years with a man who at first, seemed to have exactly what I needed, before he too began the soul-murdering, energy-sucking, crazymaking abusive behavior that was worse that either of my first two husbands and my psycho alcoholic abusive father.

What can one do? I have learned to beware of flattery, pay attention to the old adage “if it seems to good to be true, it probably is,” engage my detached, observer self, and keep my ego in check on initial meetings, and actually, as much as “humanly” possible (sorry, I love puns). Reading at lot helps too.
The books that have helped me the most so far are:

“Why Does He Do That?” Lundy Bancroft
“The Sociopath Next Door” Martha Stout
“Stop Walking On Eggshells”
“The Mast of Sanity” Hervey Cleckley
“The Verbally Abusive Relationship” Patricia Evans

I have also spent over two years researching Borderline Personality Disorder which appears to be match for Psychopathy, and has help me “understand”? and survive the sheer terror of living with someone without a conscience who exists in a different reality--living with a psychopath. Indeed, knowledge protects.

shellycheval

Thank you all for your insight. I understand all the analogies and understand how a psychopath "recognizes" he/she is "different" and along those same lines would be able to "recognize" his/her own. Totally makes sense now.

anart further expounded on Danny's analogy suggesting that this recognition is a subtle knowing. The "gay-dar" is familiar to me as well. Perhaps because I have a sibling and friends who I learned it from. (I don't find it foolproof, but some of my friends are amazed at my accuracy; not being "one of them." I do find that it is an awareness of very, very subtle clues.)

However, as shellycheval points out, I believe it behooves us to educate ourselves on "spotting" psychopaths - the sooner the better. And after several "close encounters" with people I now highly suspect were/are psychopaths, I've been doing my own research. (By the time one figures out that they are possibly dealing with a psychopath, it's a little late.) I think many of us are "blindsided" because we are not aware of these "others" in the sense that we need to be aware of them. We know they are there, but we seem to be clueless as to how they truly operate and are just now beginning to sort it out. And it seems that all the things we've learned thus far are elementary. Yes, it's a start, but seems we have a lot more we need to educate ourselves about. So thankful for this site and the sharing of infomation and knowledge.

I've been sifting thru all the clues I've been "given" and reading as well. It took over a year of reading at the Cass site to understand just how "pod-like" these others are. The positive end of that is the more I learn, the less "frightening" psychopaths become. Thanks again!

The thread above this one in the list has some interesting insights on psychopaths, and their whiley ways.

shellycheval said:

Annette1 wrote “Do we know precisely HOW psychopaths "recognize each other"? I am curious about this, especially if they can spot each other in a crowd as early as childhood.”

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I've been thinking along the lines that psychopaths may very well recognise each other in a similar way that other humans may 'recognise' each other, but the end result of this would NOT be for them to congregate, co-operate and help each and swap psychopath stories.

The world of a psychopath is very individually dominated and focused. There can only be 'one' of them as 'top dog' in any sphere of influence however large or small. This includes areas such as class bully, gang leader, to family psychopath. They have to be the center of attention with all others 'serving them' or revolving around them and their needs and manipulations.

On the other hand, they would probably seek out victims in the same way that other humans would try to seek out those that have something in common with them.

If another psychopath was suddenly to come along, would this not precipitate a fight for control and resources? Psychopaths may 'recognise' each other, but only as a threat or possible challenge. I don't think they would deliberately seek out each others company because they recognise each other as being a threat. But then again, my view of how many psychopaths there are in the world is a lot smaller than some peoples.

There was a recent example here where a politician who was most likely a psychopath (or who had psychopathic tendencies) started making 'no' noises against the US government. He is no longer in politics after he visited the United States and suddenly developed some serious health problems.

This got me wondering how psychopathic governments as well as psychopathic individuals see each other. From what I've observed regarding psychopathic governments, if they cannot control various psychopathic leaders (often dictors) in other countries they will get rid of them. This may be one of the reasons why I cant see psychopaths actually seeking each other out, as it may become a competition (often to the death, or at the least to complete exclusion of the other individual) for resources and attention and control.

Just some thoughts.

“Do we know precisely HOW psychopaths "recognize each other"? I am curious about this, especially if they can spot each other in a crowd as early as childhood.”

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I grew up meeting a lot of different dogs. A dog of a certain breed seems to recognize another dog of the same breed. This is expressed by a certain repetitive behavior. Even if it sees a mix of their breed they seem to know. Now dogs aren't likely, imo, to know what they 'look like.' They don't spend hours of their lives in front of mirrors as people do, so it seems more of an instinctual thing. I bring this up because when I first read this Lobaczewski quote I wondered to what extent this 'spotting' was conscious. Certainly a degree of conscious identifying could be likely, but I think a large part is instinctive.

Thanks for the info. There is a group of psychopaths, who are bent on destroying weak and vulnerable people living at the bottom of my road. They spend no end of money on alcohol and drugs and then go out at night trying to terrorize anybody that they feel is a threat to their meager existance. They lack morality and are highly anti-social. As I said, they are strung out on alcohol and drugs which they often mix, which increases their aggression. One individual is such that her personality already dictates that she hits first and ask questions later. She incites others to committ violent acts towards disabled and vulnerable people in the community.

How would I know if I myself am a psychopath?

I believe I can almost immediately pick up on who around me is a psychopath and have known I was different from most people since I was in kindergarten.
I can manipulate people and get them to feel sorry for me with ease.
I sometimes feel remorse for having done so.
I think I feel emotion, but I do not have reactions similar to other people's sometimes.

If I am a psychopath, is it necessarily a bad condition and is there a way to correct it?

If you were a manufactured psycopath (you know, we live in an ambient designed to manufacture psycopaths -you dont have to born like one), yes there are ways to correct it. Painful, difficult ways. And the path is long. Wear today this shirt, and never remove it again: Brutal Honesty about your self.
Browse the forum. Search it. Read on on psycopaths (map site). Do not stop networking with the deepest honesty you are able to express.
Aim for individuality.
There are many ways to correct it. Many. It is all about transforming your self. Be sure if you are one, and then, if you are, accept it. Correct the wrongs you have been doing to other people: Unmask your self in front of them. Have no mercy for your self.
You do not need a bad condittion. You just need to be.
Look, this is a very complex issue, and an answer like mine is rediculously simple. You most go and read and start to live under another set of laws.
Read. Read. Read.

webwizard09 said:

If I am a psychopath, is it necessarily a bad condition and is there a way to correct it?

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If you are a psychopath, it is not a bad condition for you. It is however a bad condition for the people who will cross your path. But IF you are a psychopath, you wouldn't care about them, so all in all, IF you are a psychopath it is a very good condition for you.

webwizard09 said:

I can manipulate people and get them to feel sorry for me with ease.

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Perhaps it's a good idea for you to read "Unholy Hungers" by Hort, since you also say

webwizard09 said:

I sometimes feel remorse for having done so.

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You are here and asking so i gather you are probably a person with "vambiric" characteristics perhaps, like most of us start out with, some in greater extend than others.

And i am in accord with Gardener's advice above.

When I was in my 20s I was aware that other people presented as vibrational energy. Like a musical tuning instrument, I could feel the frequency, or "pitch" of other peoples vibration. It resonated in my body, and, via the senses I could vaguely identify where in the body was being activated.

I recall having conversations with close friends in an effort to understand this and more importantly to explore whether it was possible that we were all of variant vibration frequency. I likened it to musical notes on a scale, or colours of the rainbow.

Perhaps psychopaths use the same? Perhaps they can tune into another's frequency? I am guessing their tuning-in is of a coarse, instinctual "base" level. They would perhaps sniff specifically for levels of fear, vulnerability or chinks in ones "field" with the intention to invade or deceive. Maybe like instinct that animals have, but with the distinct ability of bending that instinct to their own will, which animals cannot (yet?) do. Maybe that's where psychopaths get off - on the illusion of power they feel by willing their instinct?

That is very base indeed.

It's like an infantile fascination(/perversion) with having conscious ability, not yet achieved higher functions or to use that ability responsibly.

An after thought: not yet achieved higher functions or to use that ability responsibly I might be inadvertently making an assumption here that psychopaths are somehow underdeveloped souled humans. I am unsure if this is the case or not, I am still learning about this.

Let me begin by saying that I am a predator, was born one. Thankfully, I am not a psychopath. However, I was born at least half-way there, maybe three-quarters. My environment began in a way that encouraged my anti-social/attention-seeking behaviour, and if not for the sudden change in environment, and in particular the specific environment, then I may well have become a successful, wealthy psychopath by now. I am none of these three things.

To be as blunt as possible, I had all of my predatorial instincts and psychopathic urges beaten into submission. I sort of see myself as a guard dog, like a german shepherd- close to a wolf, very close, but essentially different. I am being as short as possible to avoid hijacking the thread.

I use the dog analogy here because being able to detect other predators is like sniffing them out! I am very good at spotting predators in a short time. Sometimes it can be possible to catch them out at a glance, but that's mostly that- luck.

I guess I would say that I recognise a predator because I am one. Like knows like. Also, because I have the kind of observational skills of a predator, they allow me to notice anyone else using any kind of predatory behaviour that I understand.

Therefore, to me, this person or that person might just "smell" like a predator to me. Likewise, they may also smell like prey. Many, many people do. But, that said, everyone is or has the ability to be a predator themselves, and it is in recognising this and using it appropriately that one stops being prey- using the predator within to guard against and if necessary, fight off the predator without.

I know this not because I have researched it, but because I have tested it. I have also spent the last two and a half years teaching this to my partner so that she could deal with the many present and any possible future predators, including myself, if she chose to stay with me. We actually reached that point very recently, ironically at the prompting of a mate (whom I always knew was a predator) when he turned out to be a full-fledged psychopath. I'm not 100% sure yet, but I think she's going to stick with me. I hope so. I love her :)

I hope this has helped.