Cosmology

Hello,
I do some astral projections and I've a few questions after reading the C's material.

1/ To what correspond "etheric" (or real time zone) and "astral" plans ? It's all 4D ? Can we, with astral travel, get to 5D or 6D ?

2/ Do a ghost is in 4D ? If it is, why do 4D will only come with the Wave ? Do the Wave only change the consciousness, the perception, of someone (3D to 4D ?) ? I thought the different densities was imbricated, but the C's says it is "around", so there is a distance between them. So how can a ghost be at 4D in the same place as we are (before going at 5D) ? "Give me a clue !" :D

3/ When astral travelling, what's going out of the body ? The energetic body at first ? the consciousness ? "spirit/etheric" body ? The C's says it is a "conflict of thought centers", but what are our thought centers ? Is there a "thought center" in spirit/etheric body that is inactive ? And... the C's also spoke about multi-incarnations ("mantids"). Can there is a telepathic link between different incarnations ?

4/ What is "RAM" (Random Access Memory) ? I note that theses days I recall many things (flashs), at any time... old memories that I thought I forgot ! And can't understand what's going on.

Sorry, to many questions maybe ?

Hi Jsf, and welcome to the group.

Here's a link to the Sign's esoteric glossary which clarifies the terms you seem to be having trouble with:
http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php

It may also be useful for you to question your motives before doing further experiments with astal projection. It may likely be that you don't know what you're getting yourself into and the dangers that can result. Mouravieff wrote a lot on cosmology, also with relation to doing such activites as you describe.

You may want to obtain his Gnosis series, which was written in French.

Here's a relevent quote from a commentary Laura wrote on Mouravieff's Gnosis:

http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/mouravieff1.htm

In esoteric work the phenomenalist mentality seeks facts. It looks for manifestations that confirm that its work is well founded, or which simply satisfy its curiosity. This is where the snares and traps and greatest dangers lie. For it is often possible to obtain the desired "facts" quite easily from the astral realms, to which the human personality also belongs. When the personality is firmly anchored in the physical body it is generally incapable of making direct connection with the astral levels. However, certain persons, known as sensitives, have the innate or acquired faculty of momentarily weakening the ties of the personality to the physical body so that, with no esoteric evolution whatever, they are able to connect with this level - connecting to the coarsest levels of the astral.

"Facts" obtained this way are often regarded by people who seek them as coming from the spiritual level. However, this level is a vast reservoir of psychic entities that have no contact with the higher plane, including amongst them discarnate Personalities, who normally remain there to await their Second Death - the negative equivalent of the Second Birth. This usually occurs on the fortieth day after death of the physical body.

The Tradition expressly warns seekers against contacts with this realm which is so dangerous and full of the worst illusions.

The power of intervention of these entities in the lives of humans is a function of the credulity they meet. The yearning to experience miracles, visions, etc, creates an atmosphere favorable for their appearance, which can assume various forms, often perceptible to the physical senses.

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Thanks for your reply, Shane.
Yes, I know dangers of illusions, et cetera. Don't worry, I'm aware.

It may likely be that you don't know what you're getting yourself into and the dangers that can result.

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I know. I'm informed, and ready to cope with. Perhaps there is great dangers, but that cannot prevent me from wanting to explore.

your motives

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Same as you, I assume. ;)


Another question :
The C's says :

A: And remember, your
consciousness operates on four levels, not just one!
Q: And what are these four levels?
A: Physical body, consciousness, genetic body and spirit-
etheric body.

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It is also said that OP have no soul. Is there a link between soul and consciousness ? The OP also have four levels of consciousness ? An OP could astral travel ?

Sorry for the delay Jsf.

Jsf said:

Yes, I know dangers of illusions, et cetera. Don't worry, I'm aware.
(...)
I know. I'm informed, and ready to cope with.

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Since you already know and are informed why are you wasting the groups time by 'asking' questions?

Jsf said:

Shane said:

It may also be useful for you to question your motives...

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Same as you, I assume.

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Stating that you assume your motives are the same as mine misses my point. The specific process of questioning the self, particularly when one is 'sure', helps develope the normal functioning of our intellectual center. This by itself, many have found, helps to prevent unneccessay attack. When we take on the attitude that lacks any doubt, it seems to be a symptom of our ponergenisis (if your not familar w/ ponerology if would be helpful to read Laura's commentary and excerps from Lobaczewski's Ponerology at the link provided). Psychopaths do not doubt their actions. But that is within their nature. However, when normal people carry a 'full cup' (meaning we think we already 'know'), it is against our nature and degenerates our being. Perhaps this distortion of thought is what allows conversive thinking to be infected into people and maintained.

For example, what you write below may be an example of conversive thinking:

Jsf said:

Perhaps there is great dangers, but that cannot prevent me from wanting to explore.

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From the context of what you've written, 'explore' means 'experience astral travel'. This seems to me a distortion of a sincere pursuit of knowledge. When one is pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge and not for an experience or satisfaction of feeling, then one is more ready to cope with dangers, imo. I think when one is looking for an experience it can be a way of unconsciously avoiding the world and lessons immediately in front of us. Normal everyday life can seem mundane and boring on the surface, so many look to experience the 'supernormal' such as astral travel can provide. But this also seems a condition of our ponergenisis - where our humanity is rejected and thought to be of least importance. Perhaps it is more the process of seeking the supernormal that is so filled with the most effective illusions and not neccessarily some content therein.

Just some thoughts on the matter for what its worth.

Since you already know and are informed why are you wasting the groups time by 'asking' questions?

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My questions wasn't on the potential dangerosity of illusions.

When we take on the attitude that lacks any doubt, it seems to be a symptom of our ponergenisis

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Ok, I'm a psychopath :D ! Oh! I was just asking questions on nature of astral plane and if astral was a kind of 4D density.

This seems to me a distortion of a sincere pursuit of knowledge. When one is pursuing knowledge for the sake of knowledge and not for an experience or satisfaction of feeling

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!!! I don't want to do astral travel for expericiencing pleasant feelings, don't make fast conclusions or deform my words please !

I think when one is looking for an experience it can be a way of unconsciously avoiding the world and lessons immediately in front of us.

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Yes, I agree. But why are you saying such things ? I was asking some specific questions, didn't want moralizing sentences ;)

It seems you need a lot more knowledge, awareness and study in order to become more protected from 'accidents'. 'Accidents' (danger) can be caused either by yourself or others and it is something that happens to all of us and something that we need to be very careful of.

The Cs said "knowledge protects, ignorance endangers". This is a good one to remember. If all you want to do is fly around astral travelling for 'fun' and not learn anything about other things going on this planet, then I would have to suggest that there are less dangerous ways of having 'fun'....! Bearing in mind that a person who just wants to have 'fun' and not 'work' or encounter difficulties with their life is probably going to miss out on a lot of knowledge and certainly a lot of growth.

Of your original questions, the only one I am reasonably sure of is that a journey to 5th density requires a person to die - or for a break in that white chord which astral travellers talk about. Not really recommended!!

The Cs said "knowledge protects, ignorance endangers". This is a good one to remember. If all you want to do is fly around astral travelling for 'fun' and not learn anything about other things going on this planet, then I would have to suggest that there are less dangerous ways of having 'fun'....!

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... no comment... already explain my aims. Please don't judge, please don't moralize !! I want to know what's going on right here. My experiences now is the result of years of reading, studying, meditate. Be sure I don't get out of my body for fun... But learning is fun, C's also says !

Of your original questions, the only one I am reasonably sure of is that a journey to 5th density requires a person to die - or for a break in that white chord which astral travellers talk about. Not really recommended!!

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I'm not really sure at all that 5D requires dying. Many persons report astral travels at higher density levels. (mental, buddhic, etc)

(L) So, that wasn't just an OBE, it
was a separation of the soul from the body? Is that different
from astral projection?
A: No.
Q: (L) Do people who have OBE's experience this?
A: With "astral projection" the consciousness level is not as
intense because of "the silver cord" and the shroud of third
density awareness.

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Q: (L) You guys just don't know how intense this experience
was. I was SO conscious of EVERYTHING. (T) More
conscious than you have ever been before, right? (L) I have
to say yes. I was playing with what was happening to me and
having fun. I noticed every little sensation. The separating
from the body produces a sizzling sound, a sort of electrical
sizzle, and it changes as you move in and out of the body. I
knew what I was doing. (T) In astral projection, the soul is
still connected to the body. In this case, was Laura's soul
completely separated from her physical body?
A: Not completely, but the part that was, was.
Q: (L) Well, I did sort of keep a toe in. (T) This is almost the
same thing that Dannion Brinkley described in his book. So, if
Laura had lost complete connection, would she have died at
this point?
A: Yes. [break]

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(P) I have a
question... the lady who took the aura pictures the other night
told me that I can astrally project. Is this true?
A: Everyone can.

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This is interesting (24/06/2000) because it shows a connection between terminologies (astral & 4D):

The reptoids are operating from astral/4th density
level, but "density" designations are merely relative, and the
notion of only 7 levels is quite misleading.

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So, if 4D is coming, it would be the same environnement as I can experience it with astral travel.
It would be a good preparation to 4D, isn't it ? Melatonin seems to have same effets : lucidity when sleeping, so...

Jsf said:

... no comment... already explain my aims. Please don't juge, please don't moralize !! I want to know what's going on right here. My experiences now is the result of years of reading, studying, meditate. Be sure I don't get out of my body for fun... But learning is fun, C's also says !

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I'm not judging or moralizing (I don't know you that well) - merely urging caution.

(P) I have a
question... the lady who took the aura pictures the other night
told me that I can astrally project. Is this true?
A: Everyone can.

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But would everyone want to? They can also go to 5th density too, but they may prefer to wait until circumstances are right.

Jsf said:

This is interesting (24/06/2000) because it shows a connection between terminologies (astral & 4D):

The reptoids are operating from astral/4th density
level, but "density" designations are merely relative, and the
notion of only 7 levels is quite misleading.

Click to expand...

So, if 4D is coming, it would be the same environnement as I can experience it with astral travel.
It would be a good preparation to 4D, isn't it ? Melatonin seems to have same effets : lucidity when sleeping, so...

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Well I never!!! You may have just answered a question I've had about why I'm not madly keen to astral travel and why I only seem to meet Lizzies when I sleep. I don't like them much so I tend to want to avoid them.

But I had a look at the quote and here it is in full:

000624 said:

Q: (L) I think you have to just give up. I did. I was focused on one thing and one thing only: the quest for the truth. And, it just so happened that Ark was similarly focused, and that is what intersected for us. (B) Yeah. It's like dating. You get all dressed up and go to a bar, and sit there alone all night. Then, you change a tire, get all dirty and hot, and go in the bar to get something to cool you off, and you meet somebody! (L) Okay, let me get to my questions in the folder here. LS, from the Karinya site, has a little poll about the Lizard story on his website. He asks people if they think the story is true or not, and if they have any comments. One person wrote: " feels like Truth, as does the Wave series. I would like suggestions on protection please. There is so much accurate information here that my eyes have been bloodshot for the past 3 days, while processing the site My Favorite Site: info from the Casseopaean transcripts...Awesome Assistance!!
thank you for having this Knowledge online." That is all fine and good, but then another person writes: "The story is fact, but some parts are not fact for our reality/timeline. In our timeline things aren't exactly the same as the story perceived by Cassiopaeans. We will encounter a 10th planet (Nibiru) that is artificially directed, rather than an uncontrollable group of comets. The reptoids are operating from astral/4th density level, but "density" designations are merely relative, and the notion of only 7 levels is quite misleading. Not all reptoids or greys are locked into the STS plans, and things aren't as simple or dismal as the story would suggest. I hope this helps people understand the drama better!" And, of course, one is urged to visit the Nibiruan website where one can learn the TRUTH about the density levels, etc. Now, I would like to know if something has changed, as is suggested here. Are we dealing with an "old time line" as is suggested here?

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This is not something the Cs said, but something Laura was quoting from a person who had written in from the Nibiru website. It probably can't be taken all that seriously.

By the way, you seem to be a bit more focused on the 'mechanics' of getting to 4D rather than what you may find when you get there, or indeed, what you may need to change internally to get there.

However, getting to 4D may not be as simple as 'doing a checklist of things' and simply launching oneself there... It may be a more complex proceedure where a person lifts their frequency vibrations through a combination of life experience and study, and one day, simply finds themselves there and goes 'wow', here I am....and now what do I do?! It may not be a destination, but part of a journey. One we are all on.

I'm not madly keen to astral travel and why I only seem to meet Lizzies when I sleep. I don't like them much so I tend to want to avoid them.

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I don't understand why do you want to avoid meeting them, because if they want to see you, they will ! C's says that in 4D, STS and STO forces are in a direct contact.

By the way, you seem to be a bit more focused on the 'mechanics' of getting to 4D rather than what you may find when you get there, or indeed, what you may need to change internally to get there.

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Not really true, amha, because astral travel is a good look of what's going on in 4D. Why C's suggest to construct a psychomanteum ? Why also have they suggested to take melatonin ? And why do lot of esoteric groups use astral travel ? To view the 4D reality and prepare to what's coming, don't you think ?

A few month ago, I read Robert Monroe's book : "far journeys". I was fascinated. Because it had shown me that we can, with our own experiments, verify and see more clearly the 3D matrix and 4D reality. In this book, he also says that there is a lot of ufos around earth - attracted by the near changes to come.

jsf said:

I don't understand why do you want to avoid meeting them, because if they want to see you, they will ! C's says that in 4D, STS and STO forces are in a direct contact.

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This is an interesting comment, actually. It suggests that you are comfortable 'meeting them' - is that so, and what has been your experience?

And, what evidence can you provide that this statement you have made is true?

jsf said:

Not really true, amha, because astral travel is a good look of what's going on in 4D.

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What data can you provide to prove that your astral travel is not just a dream within a dream of this earthly existence?

Before you protest - no - I am not being 'judgmental' - I am simply reading what you have written and following what you are saying. You seem quite taken with your experiences 'off of this earth' - so what have you learned about your experiences on this earth? Just curious.

Jsf said:

I don't understand why do you want to avoid meeting them, because if they want to see you, they will ! C's says that in 4D, STS and STO forces are in a direct contact.

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There is a great deal of difference between the way 4D STS and STO beings will treat you. And by default all those you meet will most likely be STS (because they are the only ones who are not interested in doing anything to benefit you). It brings to mind that quote (thank you, name) that goes something like this: "only the stupidest calves elect their own butcher". It seems to me that it may be just as applicable to our relationship with 4D STS as it is to politics. You gotta know what you're dealing with.

Jsf said:

In this book, he also says that there is a lot of ufos around earth - attracted by the near changes to come.

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Yes, this is kind of like the same attraction a farmer has to the chicken pen when he is about to cull his flock. That doesn't mean that he wants to live in the chicken coop! Or that his chickens wish to be culled (if they know about it in the first place). Would it surprise you to know that a lot of the 'alternative' type books on the market have been influenced and in many cases communicated by 4D STS. Now why would they do that if its not for our good?

Jsf said:

A few month ago, I read Robert Monroe's book : "far journeys". I was fascinated.

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I have also read this book a couple of years ago after having unvolontory experiences similar to yours.

I agree that it can seem very attractive and very fascinating.

Maybe that you have read Castenada books too. Particularly "the art of dreaming" They give a less fancy description of this world than Monroe. If you didn't read them yet, I recommend you do.

Those journeys might have similarities to big ascensions in the Hymalayas. It certainly requires a lot of knowledge, skills, preparation to come back safe and sane from such an hostile environment.

This is an interesting comment, actually. It suggests that you are comfortable 'meeting them' - is that so, and what has been your experience?

And, what evidence can you provide that this statement you have made is true?

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No, I did not seen them consciously. But, I've two dreams that had much effects on me : 1/ I was very young, maybe 5, and it's the first dream that I can recall. It was in front of my parent's house, and there was a kind of dragon. I had a fight with him - I was quite lucid at this moment. I can still recall very well this dream.

The whole series of
events ended up with my having a dream in which I
confronted a dragon...
A: Lizard.
Q: (L) What were they doing at that time?
A: Scoping.
Q: (L) What did they discover from their scoping?
A: Potential abductees. (24/11/1994)

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2/ I made a Ufo dream a few month ago. But was very vivid. A Ufo came in the sky in my garden. I was afraid, and when it came just above me, I was "inhale" by the UFO. For a few moments... nothing. I recall absolutely nothing. And suddenly, I was thrown in my grand parent's flat. It was VERY vivid. I was really afraid, I could not understant why I was there and I could'nt move, I tried to open my eyes and I just saw that I was in this flat in Paris. And few minutes after I woke up.
The weeks after this event, I had few physical problems and much difficulties to restrain negative thinking.

Before you protest - no - I am not being 'judgmental' -

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Don't worry :p

I am simply reading what you have written and following what you are saying. You seem quite taken with your experiences 'off of this earth' - so what have you learned about your experiences on this earth? Just curious.
Hard to say ! Do you ask me what I've experimented in my life ?
Ok, so I go to the worse : I was a "advanced for his age" child (in french, "surdoué", I can't find the right translation). And I'd muccccchhhh problems with the scolar system. My childhood was very painful. I developped psychosomatic problems because I could'nt cope with the school. I was rejected by all. I couldn't endure the scolar system, and every day I came back home with nauseas. At 10, I was depressed and "explosed". Psys gave me antidepressant and all theses stuffs and I didn't return to school. So, between 10 and 16, and was isolated, spending my time by reading books of philosophy (occidental and oriental), psy, hypnosis, etc... and art, of course. I made a whole conceptual system on all things. But knownledge by concept don't satisfied me entirely. I experimented modified states of consciousness, automatic writing (and "receved" material that had much effect on me), etc. So, I'm 17 now, I don't know what to do. I think I have to return to the system (university), but all the things they teach don't really interest me.
Astral projection is not, for me, a way to escape my situation. It's a tool for a better knownledge of myself. Sorry again, for my bad english.

Shane said:

When we take on the attitude that lacks any doubt, it seems to be a symptom of our ponergenisis (if your not familar w/ ponerology if would be helpful to read Laura's commentary and excerps from Lobaczewski's Ponerology at the link provided). Psychopaths do not doubt their actions. But that is within their nature. However, when normal people carry a 'full cup' (meaning we think we already 'know'), it is against our nature and degenerates our being.

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Sorry in advance to derive from the subject but I wanted to comment on this passage. As much as I agree with it, I want to say that the reverse : being always in doubt and never certain of anything can be as detrimental as being too sure. I speak from experience. There are fruitful doubts, this state of openness that helps you grow and advance in your learning and make new hypotheses to check, in order to experiment and progress and ACT, and there are paralysing doubts that prevent you from taking any action whatsoever regarding important issues (or issues you label important). I experience a lot the latter ! Theoretically, abstractly, when I write or talk about things, I can express certainty about some issues, and when faced with the choice I have to make in order to take action about that same issue I was so sure about "theoretically", I'm unable to make a choice, pondering over this or that, debating with myself, imagining the possible consequences of this or that choice, searching for certainty in others' that'll help make the choice and ACT. Damn it's tiring sometimes not to be able to take actions. I guess it's a lack of faith, too.
So, positive doubt and faith that lead to action, seem the good combination.
Just to add my own thought on the subject, based on personal data :)

Jsf said:

My questions wasn't on the potential dangerosity of illusions.

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This is why I put 'asking' in quotations. When we expect a certain outcome from our endevors we seem to be no longer putting any effort into being open to learning.

Jsf said:

Ok, I'm a psychopath ! Oh! I was just asking questions on nature of astral plane and if astral was a kind of 4D density.

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I didn't imply that you were a psychopath. I was saying that the lack of any doubt seems to be a symptom of the ponerization of normal people. I was suggesting it as a program you may be running. The issue of doubt and either having too much or too little seems a good topic to go into. Prayers for Rain brought up some great points, of which I entirely agree with; tonight when I have some time I'll try to gather some data on the issue and create a new topic on it.

Jsf said:

Not really true, amha, because astral travel is a good look of what's going on in 4D. Why C's suggest to construct a psychomanteum ?

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In the context of the C's recommendation to Laura, their reasoning was probably to communicate with Laura without Franks influence. I believe this is gone over somewhere in the wave or adventures series.

Jsf said:

And why do lot of esoteric groups use astral travel ?

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What esoteric groups? Can you name some? How do you know they are esoteric and not imitations. If they are esoteric, do you know that they are serving creation or entropy?

Jsf said:

To view the 4D reality and prepare to what's coming, don't you think ?

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Pehaps to help prepare, but I don't see the connection with 'viewing 4D' and preparing. I think the best preparing is to see 3D as it is and learn from that - it is something we can know.

Jsf said:

Astral projection is not, for me, a way to escape my situation. It's a tool for a better knownledge of myself.

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I think an important issue is how much of the asral realm is part of the 'knowable'. Are there some things we can know as we do have an astral body? Perhaps there are some uses, and I think it may be highly probable that there are some useful functions of it. However, this seems a large function of the subconscious as many seem to do this during sleep. When we intentionally project however, we may be trying to go against our natural subconscious messages. We don't seem to have enough information about the astral body, it relations with the astral world, and how it function in order to draw conclusions about how to operate it. When we reach a certain level with enough knowledge and understanding perhaps the directions of the subconscious, the astal body and its world, and our own waking consciousness will meet.