TRANSCRIPT - 09/01/06 Islamic Fascism or Plain Old Fascism?

[Darren]

09/01/2006  - Islamic Fascism or Plain Old Fascism?

Introduction by Laura: There is a disinformation program literally for everyone no matter who you are and what your interests, what your beliefs are, which way you're focusing, there is a website setup just for you, to take you in and to vector your thinking and your attention, to the way that they want you to think.

Announcer: This is radio-free Signs of the Times...bringing the news to an occupied America.

Henry (H): Welcome to this weeks Signs of the Times podcast. I'm Henry.

Joe (J): I'm Joe.

Scott (S): And I'm Scott.

H: This week we are going to talk about Islamic fascism. The new geo-P buzz word geared strike fear into the hearts of Americans, and the British, and slowly but surely the entire world. The war on terrorism has been going on now, well it started back with Reagan in the 1980's, and then of course after 9-11 it got ramped up several notches. The demonisation of the Arab people and the Muslim religion has been going on since Israel planted itself illegally and with great viciousness and bloodshed in Palestine. The media over the last fifty-some years has been slowly, steadily, and surely, planting the seeds of a coming, a coming world war that we cannot even image. The new re-catorgorisation of the war on terror is the war against Islamic fascism, is the next step in this, and this is what we want to talk about tonight.
We saw the summer that the Israelis after all their smoke and mirrors of withdrawing from Gaza and how they were going to do this as a great gesture of peace, and we were saying all along, this wasn't a gesture of peace, this was the preparations for war. And we saw this summer this came about with the invasion of Gaza; the violence against Palestinians on the West Bank increased and then in July Israel unleashed its arms of war against Lebanon. We've been told that they suffered a defeat at the hands Hezbollah. We think there's something more going on here than this that, that there's something a lot more sinister going on under the cover.

J: Well, yeah, to me that, this idea that Israel suffered a defeat is what's known a limited hangout, of sorts. Uh, it's basically a partial truth that's disseminated to avoid having to expose or avoid exposing the full truth and I don't buy for a second the idea that Israel with its long history infiltration of many countries in the Middle East and its pretty much complete control of its, of its, of the areas, of that area of the Middle East, you know, talking about its neighbours - Syria, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, even Iran and Iraq. I don't believe for a second that Israel could have, after this, with this level of control and power and with its intelligence agencies, that it could have just walked into this kind of war, conflict with Hezbollah and got it all wrong, got it all terribly wrong, it just doesn't make any sense to me.

H: We also have to remember that this is a war that didn't just happen like that. This is something that has been planned for years.

J: Of course and that, I mean that is more proof that dismisses the idea that Israel was defeated by Hizbollah because Israel very consciously planned this conflict, this short term bombardment of Lebanon. I mean, there's reports that they had been talking about it with their friends in the US government for at least a year beforehand. But there's also the fact - that has been completely and utterly denied and overlooked in the mainstream press - that Lebanon or Hizbollah somehow provoked or started this conflict by crossing the border into Israel and capturing a few Israeli solders. The fact is, that it was reported in several mainstream news websites, including Bloomberg, that in fact the Israeli solders - or batallion of Israeli soldiers - had infiltrated across the border into Lebanon and as has been the case many times in the past when that happens, Hezbollah attacks them, and now and again captures some of their soldiers. And this was just one of the things that had been happening over, over the past number of years on several occasions and it had been, it was also, almost like an agreement of sorts between the two that these kind of limited incursions would be allowed to continue. And when, if and when, they captured Israeli solders, they would exchange them for either Palestinian or Hezbollah fighters in captivity in Israel. So, first and foremost, Israel provoked this war, or this conflict, this recent conflict with Lebanon. They did it consciously and deliberately. They planned it for a year in advance and then they sold a lie to the world that it was Hezbollah that had provoked them and that they were therefore justified in bombing Lebanon and killing 1300 civilians. So, my theory then, as to what it was if it wasn't a defeat, or our theory I should say, is that basically this was a little test of the waters, we can say, by Israel in terms of public reaction - world public reaction - to the kind of indiscriminate bombing and murder of Arab civilians, because that's exactly what happened. It was unadulterated murder from the air, from the sea, by Israel, on an entirely innocent people who Israel knew were innocent and had nothing to do with any conflict other than the fact they held onto an idea of their own kind of right to sovereignty and their country, and their own beliefs.

So Israel basically used this as, as I said, as a test for, uh, world public opinion because what has been happening if you haven't noticed over the past ten years, probably longer, but certainly in the last ten years since kind of Osama really came on the scene, uh, with the first, probably a bit longer than ten years, maybe since 1993, since the first attack on the World Trade Centre and after that embassy bombings leading up to 9/11 and all the attacks since 9/11. There has been concerted effort by western governments, primarily the American and British governments, and also obviously the Israeli government to demonise Arab people and Muslims in general as terrorists and they went so far as to kill their own people on 9/11 and, uh, Madrid [H: And London], and in London. Obviously all of those weren't necessarily killing their own people, because certainly in the case of 9/11 and of the Madrid train bombings that was more than likely the work of Mossad. Some Israelis don't really see western peoples as their own people. They don't even see them as allies really. They're gentiles so they can be killed with impunity and on, and on 7/7 train bombings in London that was more than likely the work of MI5 because British Intelligence, because it was kind of a little shoddy, you know. It didn't have the class of Mossad, where it's, uh, clean, very very clean. There was a lot of holes, a lot more holes in the London bombings than in all of the Mossad attacks so it wasn't Mossad, it was more likely MI5. But, the point here is that this is all for the purpose of pushing the idea on western citizens that all Arabs, all Muslims, are terrorists but specifically, uh, Middle Eastern Arabs, uh, because Israel desires to wage a large widespread war on the Arab peoples of the Middle East and it wants to, to the greatest extent possible, to have the backing of western citizens for that, and the way to do that is that you portray the people you are going to kill as evil terrorists who actually hate you.

H: And we can see that it was completely successful in this because, in spite the all the horrors that were going on, the United States and Israel were able to drag out and drag out and so no its not the time for the ceasefire, it's not the time for the ceasefire and even if other governments sat by and said "Oh we need a ceasefire right now", they were not willing to do anything to put it into effect.

J: Yeah. They're waiting to get the data in. Uh, to see public, world public opinion and they're probably quite pleased at the success of their efforts over the past ten, fifteen years, because many people in western countries were not really that concerned. I mean we are talking here about the murder of children and that's a pretty, that's a pretty difficult thing to do for, when you consider that you know, the ordinary average person would, would be horrified at the death of a child or the murder of innocent children but many people thought twice. Many people said "Yeah it's bad but..." and it's that "but"...

H: Israel has a right to defend itself.

J: And these are terrorist sympathisers, [H: Yeah] potentially. So that kind of makes their death slightly less horrifying and that's, I mean you're talking here like about the ponerization, the psychopathisation, of ordinary people. People who normally would not sanction or support, and in fact would be horrified about, the death of innocent people anywhere in the world, especially children.

H: And let's be clear that even though there's this so-called ceasefire on at the moment, we had an article on Thursday August 31st that talked about the cluster bombs that Israel had dropped on Lebanon in the final days right before the ceasefire they dropped 350 cluster bombs which leave 100,000 of these small [J: Bomblets] cluster bomblets around and it's going to be, its going to be years before 100,000 of these bomblets are, are picked up, removed...

J: And many children are going to be blown up.

H: And these were in civilian areas, so the killing is going to continue even though the so-called ceasefire is in place.

J: We should also make note of the fact they, they followed this up. I mean it's no coincidence that just after this ceasefire in Lebanon, this temporary ceasefire, you had the, the terror alerts in the UK with the planes. And, uh, this was kinda like a, you know, after the fact of bombing and killing 1300 Lebanese civilians including hundreds of children. You had this, uh, a further kind of testing of the will of the people by creating this phony terror alert in the UK which was entirely ridiculous and ficticious, because there is, I mean, the police have said themselves said there is no, no, there was no evidence for this really other than that concocted by the Pakistani ISI which is a kind of one arm of the CIA, but none of the people they claim were involved had any, um, bomb making materials. They hadn't bought any tickets. Everybody that knew them said they were normal ordinary people and they couldn't believe they were involved in this, because they weren't. Because it was entirely made up. Now this was, I mean what you had in this was, as we said, was a testing of the will and the pushing again on the people this, this concept of all Arabs or all Muslims as terrorists and, and, and checking to see how well their programming has, has, gone.

H: uhmm.

J: We had, after these terrorist alerts we had, there were three or four incidences where planes were turned back that had taken off because people on the plane had seen - there was one in Malaga, southern Spain where a bunch of British holiday makers were coming back - this just about a week and a half ago - coming back from their holidays and the were two guys on the plane and hey were, they were actually from southeast Asia somewhere or Pakistani, uh.

H: But they weren't white.

J: They weren't white and they looked kind of Muslim. [H: Talking some strange language.]What Muslim looked like. [H: Making people uncomfortable.] Yeah, and people on the plane, people on the plane said that they were checking their watches before getting on the plane. Strange thing to happen - check your watch - don't do it you know. So, they were checking their watches and they were talking in Arabic, and that was enough for all the people on this plane to refuse to fly until these guys were removed from the plane, and this is, this like, it's clear evidence this programming has worked.

H: And you talk about this programming, we also saw at the same time and in reaction to these events, the absolutely absurd security measures being put into place in the United States, in Britain, in Australia, in the Anglo-phone countries, in Israel, where you can't travel with a bottle of water anymore. You get the the liquid explosives scare. You get people having to, to carry baggies [J: uhm] - clear plastics bags with... What a way to humiliate people.

J: Yeah. Cementing of the reality, uh, because the reality of Islamic terrorism is real because, put it this way - if a mother has to pour her milk out, her baby milk into, into a trash can before flying on the plane, then to her, well obviously the terror threat is real, because I mean, who's going to make a mother do that if there isn't an entire threat to everyone on that plane or everyone in the western world from Muslim terrorists. So it's real right? It's real because they make you pour milk out.

H: And to see the number of Americans and Brits and everybody else who stood there and said... "oh yeah, well it's kinda inconvenient but they're doing it to make us safe".

J: I'm more than willing accept these restrictions if it makes me safer...

S: And yet as we illustrated on the signs page recently with an article about this, this, this so-called, uh, these liquid bombs, uh, the author of this article spoke with a professor of chemistry and the gist of the story that these terrorists were going to be able to take these liquids and mix it in like an airplane laboratory or something and make an explosive was shown to be just complete and utter horse hockey, because I mean this, this, this expert in chemistry who actually had experience with the, the type of liquid explosives that were allegedly going to be used in this alleged plot. This professor said that, basically, you know, you'd have to bring all kinds of equipment with you when you're mixing the explosives. You have to add one component very slowly to the other and it has to be done at a certain temperature and basically and if all the conditions and all this equipment weren't there, what you would get was an explosion that would probably be small enough to injure or maybe kill the person in the laboratory but it certainly wouldn't have punched a hole in the side in the plane. It wouldn't have killed anyone else. It would just been, you know, this idiot in the bathroom blowing himself up, or blowing off his hand, or burning himself and that's it. And so...

J: But how many, how many chemistry professors are out there,that's the problem. How many people know that, that details, you know. That's the problem - people don't know this, and they just believe what they're told. They don't look into the details and they're sold a lie so easily. And I mean, the point here is that keeps, as we said - the goal is to make western people fear and therefore hate Arabs and Muslim people so that Israel and America can kill them. Now the fact is that this has worked very very well because there are a lot of people on these planes who are so afraid that they are willing to kill the two, they were willing to kill the two Muslim guys themselves, you know what I mean. They were that afraid.

J: If they didn't get them off the plane they were so afraid that they were gonna be blown up, that were willing to kind of strangle them themselves. Now, that's job, a job well done. [H: Job well done.] A job well done.

H: Hmm.

S: And there's another little titbit you know when they're talking about the idea that, that this little foray that Israel took into Lebanon, the idea that this was sort of, you know, they were kind of dipping their toe in the water to test, to test world reaction and you know - to see how much they could get away with and you know... Basically just seeing how well the, the Neo-cons and Zionist control and brainwashing, how successful their, their campaign has been. Um, but this other little interesting tidbit, was that of course in the mainstream media outlets you read that Olmert, the Israeli prime minister, is in deep do-do. Of course the Israelis aren't happy because they have been defeated and and there is this, this sex scandle involving Olmert, so there is an inquiry announced to look into to some of these matters and it wasn't an independent inquiry and of course Olmert caught some flack for that. It turns out the inquiry is going to be headed by, uh, a former head of the Israeli Mossad. [H: [laughing]] Now, I mean, you know, if you screwed up, a former head of the Mossad doesn't come and, you know, give you a hand, you know it's...

J: It's all about investigating, investigating yourself. You give yourself a check - you know the evil person checks himself - have I been bad? - No, I haven't been bad. Case closed.

H: Like the 9/11 commission that Bush put together.

J: Yeah. Give themselves a clean bill of health. No fascism here. But so, basically yeah, that's that's the idea and all the facts seem to support it. The track history or the track record in the history of Israel and the data we have about Israel and the power they have. This has got nothing to do with the defeat of the Israeli forces in Lebanon. It's about gathering data about world reaction - public opinion - to the murder of the Arab people in general for the purpose of planning a much bigger and wide scale and widespread masacure of people, of our people in the Middle East.

H: And this brings us to the question that, of the new use of the term of Islamic Fascism. This is preparing the next stage.  In an article that we ran again on Thursday 31st August, that came from the Associated Press and now the Associated Press is part of the mainstream media, it's part of the propaganda machine and the brainwashing machine, and it's says. The article's entitled "The Enemy is Now 'Fascism'", and the subtitle is geo-P sees it as the right word. Talk is not of terrorists, but Islamic Fascists, and the article starts, "President Bush in recent days has recast the global anti-terrorism effort as a 'war against Islamic fascism'. Fascism in fact, seems to be the new buzz word for Republicans in an election season, in an election season dominated by an unpopular war in Iraq." And it's not only Bush that's come out with this. Rumsfeld came out in a speech to the American Legion convention in Salt Lake City, and then I think Scottie's got some of that.

S: Yeah.  In this speech, to the American Legion on Tuesday, Rumsfeld stated that war opponents displayed the kind of thinking that delayed military action against Adolf Hitler's Nazi Germany. And he also reiterated that the world faces quote "A new type of fascism" unquote. And he again warned against repeating the pre-World War II mistake of appeasement, and then he went on to say that "Critics of the administration suffered from moral confusion" as he put it.

J: Hmm.

H: So now if you're against everything that Bush is doing then you're a fascist sympathiser, if not an outright fascist yourself.

J: Well, if you quibble over the death of children.

H: Lebanese children. The Associated Press article went on and said "depicting the struggle as one against Islamic Fascists is a quote an appropriate definition of the war that we are in". geo-P said. He continues "I think it's effective in that it definitively defines the enemy in a way that we can't because they're not in uniforms, so..." you have these rag-tag terrorist supposedly and now we can say that they're fascists so were able to define them .Except that you're not defining anybody, you're labelling somebody, and it's an emotional hook and everybody hates fascism because everybody's got all the stories of what happened in the World War II and you've seen the movies about Adolf Hitler and everybody knows that fascism is a bad thing.

J: Exactly. Because, as we, as we were talking earlier about, this is all fair basically, we were just talking about the fact that in terms of the war on terror or the war on terrorism, the problem with that is, one of the problems with that, has been that there have been these left-wing kind of, or pseudo left wing, uh pundits who dared to suggest that maybe we should, maybe the American government should be looking at why these terrorists hate us so much. Um, you know, because if they're terrorists and they're fighting a terrorist war, if they're attacking us using terrorist tactics, why is that? Is there some blame on part of the Americans. That's a bit of a no-no because you can't...

H: It's almost traitorist.

J: It can't be, it can't be watered down in anyway. You can't have it anything but, in any terms other than, kind of complete totalitarian, you know, absolute terms, that this is an implacable enemy that wants to kill us simply because we are who we are because we have freedoms, because we're Americans. So you can't have someone questioning that and maybe apportioning some blame to Americans. And one way to do that is to redefine it as "Fascism" because, uh, it's one thing to fight terrorists, but a fascist, I mean fascists are just, they are people who just hate other people. [H: Yeah.] Who just wanna kill them for no reason. They're totalitarian. They're in favour of, you know, an elite few oppressing the many just for the sake of it. And this would be a just war indeed if it was a case of terrorist fascists, but as we've been mentioning this is a case of calling others what you yourself are. Or, accusing other of doing what you yourself are doing.

H: Yeah well, we'll get to that in more detail a little later because we're really seeing what they're setting up for us and it ain't pretty. Now, it's patently absurd to call the Muslims fascists and because its patently absurd to call them fascists they have to kinda do some wiggling around and a mid-east adviser to the first Bush Administration and the Clinton Administration named Dennis Ross, he kinda came out and admitted it and he said, "Fascism has a certain definition". Well yeah, that's true. "Whether or not they..." meaning the Islamic, so-called Islamic fascists, "meet this or not one thing is clear, they're radical. They represent a completely radical and intolerant interpretation of Islam". So, if you're a little radical and well, completely radical, well then you're just a fascist. I mean, you know, hey.

J: There's a lot of California surfers that are gonna be in trouble, because they're totally radical. [H: [Laughing]] You know what I mean... dude.

H: And Eric Margolis had a response to this in an article entitled "The Big Lie About Islamic Fascism", and in his article he says, "This ugly term was probably first coined in Israel - as was the other hugely successful propaganda term 'Terrorism' - to de-humanise and demonise opponents and deny them any rational political motivation, hence removing any need to deal with their grievances and demands".

J: Exactly.

H: And this what we're talking about. They're just being, the Muslims and Arabs are being demonised so that they can be killed with impunity. They can be killed and you will not be upset.

J: And their claims or their grievances, they're legitimate justified grievances against the Americans, against the Israelis, for stealing their land, for oppressing them, for killing them wholesale over the past fifty years. These claims can be, can be dismissed, because they're terrorists. Because terrorists don't have, and fascists certainly don't have, any legitimate claims, because they're just inherently evil.

H: And there is a very clear definition of fascism, and we will be getting into this. Margolis points out, that if you take this definition of fascism and you apply it to the Muslims, it does not apply.

J: It doesn't apply to Islam and it doesn't apply to Muslims for that reason. I mean, Islam, the very idea of, or the concept of fascism is anathema to Islam and everything that is taught in Islam. Of course people say, that we're dealing with extremists, fundamentalist, Islamics, but the fact is that they were more or less created. Uh, of course, there's always been fundamentalist, uh, sects or fundamentalist groupings within any religion. I mean that's, every American should be aware of the fact that there are 40 million fundamentalist Christians in America and you should be very afraid of them, but um, and the same is true for Islam, but the fact is this is well documented that, that the promotion of fundamentalist Islam and its financing was facilitated, was essentially conducted, by the American government in the 1970s during the time of... it goes back a little back before that to the fifties in terms of the [H: The British in terms of...], in terms of it inception. But in terms of Al-Qaeda and the kinda people that the network, that is set up today or that is claimed to exist today, is entirely, was entirely, set up and is entirely controlled by the CIA, by British intelligence and by Israeli intelligence. Because it started out in Afghanistan, during the Russian-Afghanistan war when the Americans, I think under Carter at the time, financed the Muslim, the Muslim extremists in Afghanistan against the Russians because it suited their geostrategic purposes at the time. But since then, they have been sheltered and they have been shepherded and they have been used as patsies for modern day Islamic terrorism which is entirely controlled and carried out by agents of major western Christian, Jewish, Zionist governments. That is an indisputable fact.

H: You can take that to the bank.

J: Yes.

H: So let's look at what fascism really is.

J: Yeah. I mean, since we're talking about fascism.

H: Let's look at. Let's see whether this actually applies or not.

J: Since the claim has been levelled.

S: Well, there's an interesting article at Information Clearing House by Tom Hartman. It's called "Reclaiming the Issues: Islamic or Republican Fascism" and in this article he quotes Vice-President Wallace. He was Vice-President in 1944 and the New York times had asked him, "What is a fascist? How many fascists do we have? How dangerous are they?", and as part of his response, he said that "It may be shocking to some people in this country to realise that, without wanting to do so, they hold views in common with Hitler when they preach discrimination". And of course, this is rather interesting because when you think about the story that Joe related about the, the Islamic guys on the, on the airplane. And they were checking their watches, and passing a cell phone around, and they were chatting. And of course, this was perceived as some sort of evil terrorist activity, and you know, all hell broke loose. This sort of Islamiphobia, this like, extreme racism or discrimination is really quite evident in the US, in Britain, in pretty much everywhere. And then, in the artical by Eric Margolis that Henry mentioned, he quotes the Columbia University Professor Robert Paxton that Henry had mentioned, and he says "Paxton defines fascism’s essence, which he aptly terms its 'emotional lava' as...", and he gives a list of five different points. Number one is "a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions". Number two is, "belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits.", three is. "need for authority by a natural leader above the law, relying on the superiority of his instincts.", four is, "right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint", and the final one is, "fear of foreign",  quote unquote "contamination". And of course, if you look at the, the whole war on terror, well since 9-11 in particular, you know the first one "a sense of overwhelming crisis beyond reach of traditional solutions". Well, you had 9-11, you had the train bombings in Madrid, you had the bombings in the UK. Um, but especially with 9-11 of course, you know this was the, the, the Reichstag fire that really, sort of, kinda set the whole world on fire and of course it was all, you know everyone is a target. Americans especially are a target. And the second one, "belief one’s group is the victim, justifying any action without legal or moral limits". Of course you know, Americans are the victims. The English are the victims.

J: The Israelis are the victims.

S: Everybody's a victim. And it's all, you know... and of course we hear a lot from especially the American Administration that the war on terror - it's a different kind of war. All the rules are changed. We have to use all the tools at our disposal and if that means spying on on our own people and instituting a fascist dictatorship well then, you know, this is what we've got to do to fight the bad guys because they're trying to steal our freedom.

H: And to keep you secure. And safe.

S: You know, gotta keep everybody safe. As for number three, "the need for authority by a natural leader above the law, [J: [Laughing]] relying on the superiority of his instincts". [H: [Laughing]] [J: That one's a doozy.] I mean...

J: That just, that just, I mean who does that... Who does that say? I mean, who's name is on that, you know. George W...  I mean.

H: My gut. "I work from ma gut".

J: God told me to invade Iraq.

S: He's the decider.

J: I'm the decider.

S: So... and then, you know, number four, "right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint". I mean that certainly, I mean...

J: Well, hold on a minute there. I don't want to get anti-semitic here, and I 'm not gonna get anti-semitic, because anti-semitism as it is defined today is, uh, is just a ploy used by Israel to justify the murder of real semitic people, but I mean. Read that again Scottie. That third one.

S: Right of the chosen people to dominate others without legal or moral restraint.

J: I mean, this is the ethos of Israeli religious teaching, or Jewish religious teaching. I mean, this is, the chosen people. Something that has been imposed onto Jewish people for millenia by a certain group of so-called leaders who force them into this position of being the chosen people and having the divine right to destroy and, and murder others not like them because god told them they could do it, and I mean in no way am I saying that this is the belief of all Jews. What I am saying is that the real fascists are psychopathic religious kinda of talmudic teachings that as I say, have been foisted on the Jewish people as a whole and, and they have been responsible for the actions taken in the name of these teachings.

H: And it was picked up in a secular sense, in the United States of America. And, this is the way George Bush acts. This is the way American foreign policy has been for decades and decades. That America is the world's moral leader. America is the world's democratic leader and this gives them the right to invade who they want to exploit economically, who they want, because all they're doing is bring freedom and democracy to these people.

S: It's kind of the ethos also of the fundamentalist Christians. Of course, the fundies believe that, you know, Israel invading, you know, every country in the Middle East. Well, you know, great, you know, the End Times near, the Apocalypse and all that, the Book of Revelation, and you know, and any Jew that doesn't convert to Christianity is gonna perish. So hey, let's go get him. And then of course, in speaking in terms of the US in particular, US soldiers are you know, Bush is pushing for, uh, immunity from war crimes for US soldiers even as you know, they're in Iraq. You know, torturing people and killing women and children and committing war crimes. The final one that Paxton, his final element of defining fascism was fear of foreign contamination and you can see a little bit of this in, in the US today, in terms of the quote unquote "Damn foreigners" who are coming across the border from Mexico. You've got to lock down the borders and of course everyone is obviously terrified of anyone who even looks remotely like, you know, an Arab.

J: So basically what we're saying is, those five, uh, points that define fascism are very, very clear description of Israel, and America and their governments, and what they're espousing. I mean, it couldn't be any more clear and they're foisting this on their chosen enemy. Which is, uh, the entire Muslim world.

H: And to make it even more clear for those listeners who are so immersed in the brainwashing that has gone on in the United States for decades and decades. To make it even more clear we continue on with, on with what Margolis says. Says "Fascism demands a succession of wars, foreign conquests, and national threats to keep the nation in a state of fear, anxiety, and patriotic hypertension. Those who disagree are branded ideological traitors. All successful fascists regimes, Paxton points out, allied themselves to traditional conservative parties, and to the military-industrial complex".

J: A Fear is obviously the goal or at least that's what a lot of people in the alternative media are saying. It's, uh, the goal is to keep the American people and the western populations afraid so that they will then acquiesce to anything that the government tells them. They need to accept, to, uh, to keep themselves safe. But, in another sense, and a very real sense, and this is maybe going a little bit deeper into it and is the kind of stuff you only get on Signs of the Times, is that fear is a means to an end because the logical, or the very, um, the very common result of fear is hate. If you can make someone afraid enough and fear another person or another group people they will very quickly come to hate those people [H: uhm] because they, they fear for their lives and and they turn into the, their animal kind of lower instincts come into play and, and they want to kill. And they shout "kill, kill, kill" to remove the source of the fear. Now, in terms of what is being set up for the, a major war in the Middle East. This obviously is very, very, placed very directly into that because it's what we've, what we've started out kind of saying, that the goal is to get the backing of ordinary people. Ordinary decent people. People like you, our listeners know, your families, your friends, uh, people you work with. Ordinary people who would never normally sanction the murder of innocent people, but in the situation where they're afraid, they come to hate, and they are essentially turned into, that which their leaders are, which is psychopaths - people who have no empathy, no concern, no care for another human being and that's what they want to do . They want to make you like them, so you will agree to acts of inhumanity and in doing so destroy your own, your own humanity. Destroy your own souls. Uh, that might sound a little bit esoteric but that's exactly the result, if, if...

H: Think about it in terms of conscience. If there are listeners who get uncomfortable with terminology such as "souls", think about it as conscience. Who in good conscience could permit this. Who in good conscience can permit the death of children.

J: Ask yourself, you know. Would you do this, would you sanction the death of children. Would you agree or support the death of children. You say no, but look at what has happened in terms of the war on terror. Look at the people you know, have they done it, have they sanctioned this kind of murder in the name of the war on terror and the fear and the hate it generates. Probably you know a lot of people who do support it to some degree so we're not talking about something that is going to happen, we're talking about something that has happened and that is ongoing.

H: Yeah.

S: You may say, "oh you know, you guys are talking about, you know, the death of children, but you know I saw on TV and read in the news that, you know, that's all lies, and you know, and I saw the whole, you know, this photograph of Lebanon where the guy, he faked the smoke to make it look worse than it was, so you know, I don't believe it and I think, you know, it's really, you know, the Islamic, you know, terrorists, you know. They're crazy fascists". So to give another example of who the real fascists are, uh - first of all, you know, when you get information from the mainstream media and of course you can find out that you're not really getting the truth because when you read some alternative media sites such as Signs of the Times you can read articles from reporters who are highly respected. You can read articles by people such as Robert Fisk who are actually in Lebanon and who report that yes, in fact they're killing children and they're killing women and all this stuff is happening and then you know, you might say, you know gee you know, maybe I'm being lied to . And of course, you know, people like Bush and Cheney and everybody they want you to believe it's the evil Islamic terrorists are the ones who are lying and yet if you simply look at what is happening in the US right now, I mean you know, Bush has, Bush had a White House press conference the other day and a reporter asked him what Iraq had to to do with the attack on the World Trade Centre and Bush's response was "nothing". Now of course you remember, you know, back when this whole, you know,let's attack Iraq thing was going on it was all, "Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction, he's going to attacked the US. Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and he could use them against the US".

J: Saddam Hussein was tied to Al-Qaeda.

S: Yeah, well that's the, Saddam Hussein was tied to Al-Qaeda and it turns out that back in January, Dick Cheney was on the Fox news radio show, uh, with, the host at the time was a guy named Tony Snow and Snow asked him, well, you know, what about this whole link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq and Snow asked Cheney, what do you think about this, you know, this article that Stephen Hays wrote, and Stephen Hays is a guy who interestingly enough is now Cheney's biographer, but Hays wrote an article which, which illustrated, supposedly, the link between Al-Qaeda and Iraq and it turns out that the Defence Department came out and said, well, Stephen Hays article was based on a memo that was written by Douglas Feith at one at everyones favourite Zionist in the US Administration and the Defense Department said that the memo that Feith had written was not an analysis of the substantive issues or relationships between Iraq and Al-Qaeda and so you basically couldn't draw any conclusions from it.

J: Is that another way of saying that it was made up.

S: Yeah, pretty much.

J: His personal opinion. This is a Zionist in the Israeli government or the American government who told Cheney that Iraq...

S: Who told the Stephen Hays guy.

J: Told Stephen Hays who told Cheney...

S: Who just happened to give him this memo. Who happens to be Cheney's biographer and then of course, Cheney says "Yeah, I think this is a good example that illustrates the connections between Iraq and Al-Qaeda" and the Defence Department says no, this is a load of crap.

J: And then Bush, but Bush decides to go ahead and tell the world that, or tell the American people at least, that Iraq, Saddam Hussein, had some ties to Al-Qaeda therfore directly tied to 9/11. And therefore we had to invade Iraq and so they all knew that this was a lie at the time and now Bush openly admits it and people go, well what do people do.

H: Well the cherry on the cake is that Tony Snow is now the White House Press Secretary.

J: Yeah, that's the guy...

S: The job well done by everyone.

J: Tony Snowjob.

S: And that's actually, that actually, you know, this use of the mainstream media is we mentioned, is one of the elements of fascism and the Tom Hartman article that I mentioned earlier he writes, uh, as part of Vice President Wallace back in 1944, as part of his response, he said that the American fascist would prefer not to use violence. "His method is to poison the channels of public information with the fascist, the problem is never how best to present the truth to the public, but how best to use the news to deceive the public into giving the fascist and his group more money and more power".

J: Essentially, fascism is synonymous with psychopathy. Because everything that you're saying is, um, very clearly delineated in the book by Andrew Lobaczewski who is a psychologist from Poland and who has done, over the past fifty years, has done a lot of work in terms of analysing the nature of evil and, uh, essentially psychopathy, and he has his work, is put together in a book that we are publishing, called Political Ponerology, which is the study of evil adjusted for political purposes. And it's a, it's an essential read to understand exactly the nature of the real fascists who happen to be in the American government, in the Israeli government, in the British government and who are conducting this phoney war on terror or war on fascism. Essentially, in reality, it's a war on themselves but of course in their terms the fascists are not themselves. The fascists are their enemy, their chosen enemy. I.e. the entire Muslim world and specifically the people of the Arab Middle East.

H: Now, one of the things we know about psychopathy, having studied the question for many years here at Signs of the Times, is that psychopaths will project onto their victims their own intentions. And this, you see it over and over and over and over again. So, returning the article we discussed earlier from the Associated Press. There is a quote from one of the Pathocrats representative of the Bush Administration - Charles Black a long time geo-P consultant with close ties to both the first Bush Administration and the current White House said branding Islamic extremists as fascist was apt, quote, "It helps dramatise what we're up against", Black said, "they're not just some rag-tag terrorists, they're people with a plan to take over the world and eliminate everybody except them".

J: Turn that 180 degrees.

H: Turn that 180 degrees. This is what the plans of the Pathocrats are. This is what Bush, this is what the leaders in Israel, this is what the Tony Blairs, this is what all of these people around the world and in whatever governments they're in - this is their plans for you and for me and for your children. They mean to get rid of us all.

J: Yeah, and they've spelled it.

H: They've spelled it out.

J: In that quote they've spelled it out. This guy Black said, just to read it again he said, "portraying the Muslim world, or Arabs as fascists, helps to dramatise what we're up against." Note that, that it is to dramatise it. To make a show of it. "They're not some just rag-tag terrorists. They're people", here he's talking about himself. This is, understand this, understand, that he is talking about the Bush government, the Israeli government and the British government. They are people with a plan to take over the world and eliminate everybody except them.