Translation of the Signs of the Times and the Forum.

[thorbiorn]

On some sites one finds a hyper link, usually contained within a national flag, so that when one clicks it, the Web page is quick translated into the language represented by the flag. If this possibility has not yet been tried, could we make a test and let the readers decide?

As a first initiative I put a few links in my signature until such times as it may be included. One is _http://babelfish.altavista.com/ On this page one can translate an English page into Chinese, Dutch, French, German, Greek, Italian, Japanese, Korean, Portuguese, Russian and Spanish. Bablefish translation is powered by Systran: _http://www.systran.co.uk/ The version of Firefox and computer/software I had did not provide anything useful when trying Chinese traditional, but Russian and Dutch read better. Probabably one needs to have a computer and a browser that are set up to reflect a wide range of characters.  

Looking up 'free translation' in Google gave 9.400.000 hits.

To get more languages and find the best translations one can try out a variety of services.

A word of caution is found on _http://www.word2word.com/free.html :

Free Online Translation Services

The amount and quality of free translation may vary from site to site. These sites are commerical[sic] sites that are providing free language translation as a means of trying to get your business. We are recognizing them because of their free offers. Please be aware of the limitations of automatic translation. These systems will never provide a 100% accurate translation of your text. The links we provide are to free resources; however, if you do need to purchase translating dictionaries or software you can visit this [_http://secure.worldlanguage.com/world/cfm/gotofunc.cfm?typescanid=2&calledfrom=210055]link.

If the reader of this post is interested in the subject, one task could be to test the translation services and give a review of the quality.

Edit note 20080103: A couple of more sites that may be of use:
1).  _http://www.babylon.com/affiliates/landing/index.php?id=10588&WT.srch=1&gclid=CNrD5YHB2pACFQtGQwod1SXfWQ offers a free download that they claim can help with translation in 75 languages. At the time of typing the software is called Babylon 7.
2).  _http://www.imtranslator.com/# explains that:

What is ImTranslator?
Online Translator powered by PROMT Translation Server performs real-time translation for English to/from French, German, Portuguese, Russian or Spanish; French to/from German or Spanish; Italian to English or Russian; Russian to/from French, German or Spanish language pairs.

[Nitra]

I am Argentinian. I speak Spanish.

I am orphan ever since they closed the forum in Spanish ( 2008 - August - day 8 ). I speak some English and I use a translator to read the english forum. But even so it is difficult to understand ideas completely. You have luck that the material (Cassiopaeans) this originally in English. 

Thanks for links. 

And pardon for my English.

[Belibaste]

To get more languages and find the best translations one can try out a variety of services.

Thanks to the advice of a French forum member I've recently discovered Wikilook. With this light Mozilla Firefox applet you don't have to go to a translation website, shift Internet windows, look for the definition, go back to the initial text.

You just stay on your favorite website, highlight the word you want a definition for, press "shift" and then a little pop-up appears and you get your definition.

After using it for a couple of weeks, I can only say that it's very useful and handy.

[Jonathan]

WOW, Axel thank you for posting that little tidbit.  very useful!!  i spend a lot of time doing that switching back and forth between windows, this will cut that time down dramatically... 

[nicklebleu]

Thanks bellbast for that nice little gizmo .... quite handy, I must say!

As to the translation services ... I have used soem of them in the past (over a year ago ...) and I must say, that the quality is not very good. Translations of one word are OK (such as wikilook), but bulk translations of text often are unable to make any sense. One can use such a translation service as a first *rough* translation, but it is imperative, that someone with some language skills corrects all mistranslations. The problem with these services is that they take the words "literally" and out of context. I think this ability is being added progressively, but we are not there yet ...

So I guess for texts from the SOTT website, which tries to transmit difficult concepts there is but one solution - hands-on translation. I'd be more than happy to give a hand with translations from English into German ... or vice-versa.

[nicklebleu]

To highlight my point I have done a little experiment. I used this following short paragraph from my last post and fed it into bablefish:

As to the translation services ... I have used soem of them in the past (over a year ago ...) and I must say, that the quality is not very good. Translations of one word are OK (such as wikilook), but bulk translations of text often are unable to make any sense. One can use such a translation service as a first *rough* translation, but it is imperative, that someone with some language skills corrects all mistranslations. The problem with these services is that they take the words "literally" and out of context. I think this ability is being added progressively, but we are not there yet ...

That's the German translation coming out of Babelfish:

In hinsichtlich der Übersetzungsdienste… habe ich einige von ihnen verwendet in der Vergangenheit (einem Jahr vor…) und ich muss sagen, das, welches die Qualität nicht sehr gut ist. Übersetzungen von einem Wort sind (wie wikilook) OKAY, aber Masseübersetzungen des Textes sind häufig nicht imstande, jedes mögliches sinnvoll zu sein. Ein kann einen solchen Übersetzungsdienst wie eine erste *rough* Übersetzung verwenden, aber es ist zwingend, dem jemand mit etwas Sprachfähigkeiten alle fehlerhaften Übersetzungen behebt. Das Problem mit diesen Dienstleistungen ist, dass sie das Wörter " nehmen; literally" und aus Zusammenhang heraus. Ich denke, dass diese Fähigkeit nach und nach addiert wird, aber wir sind nicht dort noch…

I then fed the result back into Babelfish to translate it back to English ... sort of Chinese Whisper game.

In regarding the translation services… has I unite of them used in the past (one year before…) and I must say, that, which is not very good the quality. Translations of a word are (as wikilook) OKAY, but mass translations of the text are frequently not capable of being meaningful each possible. Can such a translation service like a first *rough* translation use, but it is compelling, which someone repairs all incorrect translations with something language abilities. The problem with these services is that it " words; take; literally" and from connection. I think that this ability is gradually added, but we are not there still…

I know this is a bit unfair, but I think that's a good way of testing the quality of a translation engine: If it was perfect, it would preserve the content of the text through both translations. And my post wasn't exactly very difficult. Think about a text like "Political Ponerology" by Lobaczewski, where I have to read the text about three times just to understand it ...

[nicklebleu]

That's the result coming out of the Systran translation engine:

In hinsichtlich der Übersetzungsdienste… habe ich einige von ihnen verwendet in der Vergangenheit (einem Jahr vor…) und ich muss sagen, das, welches die Qualität nicht sehr gut ist. Übersetzungen von einem Wort sind (wie wikilook) OKAY, aber Masseübersetzungen des Textes sind häufig nicht imstande, jedes mögliches sinnvoll zu sein. Ein kann einen solchen Übersetzungsdienst wie eine erste *rough* Übersetzung verwenden, aber es ist zwingend, dem jemand mit etwas Sprachfähigkeiten alle fehlerhaften Übersetzungen behebt. Das Problem mit diesen Dienstleistungen ist, dass sie die Wörter „buchstäblich“ und aus Zusammenhang heraus nehmen. Ich denke, dass diese Fähigkeit nach und nach addiert wird, aber wir sind nicht dort noch…

In regarding the translation services… has I unite of them used in the past (one year before…) and I must say, that, which is not very good the quality. Translations of a word are (as wikilook) OKAY, but mass translations of the text are frequently not capable of being meaningful each possible. Can such a translation service like a first *rough* translation use, but it is compelling, which someone repairs all incorrect translations with something language abilities. The problem with these services is that they take the words „literally “and from connection. I think that this ability is gradually added, but we are not there still…

At first look, not a lot of differences, almost the same word for word, except towards the end the translation here is slightly better ... so my vote here goes to the Systran Box ...

[nicklebleu]

This is a short excerpt from the afore mentioned "Political Ponerology" by Andrew Lobaczewski:

At the right time, local partisans are organized and armed, with recruits picked from dissatisfied localities; leadership is provided by trained officers familiar with the secret idea as well as the operative idea concocted for propagation in the country in question. Assistance must then be given so groups of conspirators adhering to the concocted ideology can stage a coup d'etat, whereupon an iron-fisted goverment is installed. Once this has been brought about, the diversionary partisans' activities are stymied - they are made out to be patsies - so that the new authority cna take credit for bringing about internal peace. Any hoodlum who cannot or will not submit to the new decrees is "gently" invited before his former leader and shot in the back of his head. This is the new reality.

That is the result coming out of the Systran engine:

Am richtigen Zeitpunkt organisiert lokale Parteigänger und bewaffnet, wenn die Neuzugänge von unbefriedigten Stellen ausgewählt; Führung wird von den ausgebildeten Offizieren zur Verfügung gestellt, die mit der geheimen Idee sowie die Betriebsidee vertraut sind, die für Ausbreitung im fraglichen Land zusammengebraut wird. Unterstützung muss dann gegeben werden, also können Gruppen Verschwörer, die die zusammengebraute Ideologie befolgen, Staatsstreich inszenieren, worauf eine Eisen-fisted Regierung angebracht. Sobald dieses bewerkstelligt worden ist, stymied die Ablenkungstätigkeiten der parteigänger - sie werden ausgemacht, um Patsies zu sein - damit die neue Berechtigung Gutschrift für das Holen des ungefähr internen Friedens nehmen kann. Jeder möglicher Strolch, der nicht kann oder nicht bei den neuen Verordnungen einreichen wird, wird „leicht“ vor seinem ehemaligen Führer eingeladen und geschossen in der Rückseite seines Kopfes. Dieses ist die neue Wirklichkeit.

Now you will have to trust me that this is absolutley unintelligible ... and just to highlight my point, here is the revers translation:

On the correct time organize local party man and arm, if the new acquisitions selected by unsatisfied places; Guidance is placed from the trained officers to the order, who with the secret idea as well as the operating idea are familiar, who are together-brewed for propagation in the questionable country. Support must be given then, therefore groups of conspirators, who obey the together-brewed ideology, can produce coup d'etat, on which one iron fisted government attached. As soon as this was managed, stymied the diverson activities of the party men - they are constituted, in order to be Patsies - thereby the new authorization credit note for getting the approximately internal peace to take knows. Each possible Strolch, which not can or will not submit with the new regulations, is invited „easily “before its former leader and shot in the back of its head. This is the new reality.

I guess that such a paragraph has to be translated by "hand" as even the rough first translation is almost unusable ...

[thorbiorn]

A limited test of the free translation software Babylon 7 from _http://www.babylon.com 

It is a toolbar and addon for the Firefox browser. It works like this; one installs, then for a word one wishes to look up, one holds the curser over the word and presses "shift + right click" simultaneously. As a result the word gets highlighted.

(In the following it is assumed that the page one is looking at is using English.)

After the highlighted word comes up, simultaneously a green Babylon dialog box pops up.  In the upper half the whole paragraph or surrounding words of the word highlighted are included. Below the dictionary meaning of the highlighted word is explained in English using other English words.

In the middle there is a narrow greenish field where one can select between several languages, when I looked it was 26. Suppose one wishes to translate the whole text from English to French: then one selects French and presses translate and next the text that was in the upper field appears as "some kind of translation" in the lower field. One needs to be on-line for this to work.

After having installed the main software package one can enhance the application by downloading dictionaries that can work with it. On _http://www.babylon.com/display.php?id=5&tree=5&level=1 one can select between comprehensive dictionaries for 17 languages and they are for free.

One feature of the tool bar is that in the left side there is a "+" and to the right of it a small downward arrow. By clicking it, a drop down opens and one can change the language of the toolbar between English, Hebrew, Russian, German, Spanish, Portuguese, Turkish, Italien, and Dutch

In the taskbar a small Babylon icon gets installed. By leftclicking the icon, a dialog box opens which explains how to use. By clicking 'Options' in this how-to dialog box, or by right clicking the Babylon icon in the taskbar, a menu opens which gives different options, including 'Dictionaries' that may allow one to install dictionaries from the web or from a CD.

Babylon does seem to slow down the machine a bit, and some popup is also there. So it works, but there has to be a need for what it offers, before installation is considered. The company has a FAQ with tips and information: _http://www.babylon.com/display.php?id=185&tree=6&level=4

Uninstall has caused problem for some people, since the toolbar did not go away, however if one follows the following procedure taken from the FAQ it should be easier:

How do I uninstall Babylon?
# 1. Right-click on the Babylon icon, at the bottom of your screen next to the computer's clock, select "Exit", and confirms your decision with a "Yes".

2. Go to "My Computer ->Control Panel -> Add/Remove Programs", select 'Babylon' by clicking on it, and choose 'remove'.

3. Delete the "Babylon" folder from the directory that contains it.

For above problem see also: _http://support.mozilla.com/tiki-view_forum_thread.php?locale=fr&comments_parentId=139917&forumId=1 which has:

I want to remove Babylon search tool bar. Please, tell me what to do.
ven. 19 de sept., 2008 06:07 PST

Pete
not registered
Try _http://forums.techguy.org/windows-vista/749422-solved-how-delete-my-babylon.html

Following is from there:

What is your internet browser? if is it mozilla firefox, once you made sure that it's gone from the "add/remove programs" go into firefox, click on "tools", and look for "add-ons." See if the BAbylon Toolbar is still in there, there should be an "uninstall" button under Babylon. Click on uninstall and follow the prompts.. the uninstall should complete itself once you relaunch firefox.

Machine translations of text are not that great, it is an advantage to know the differences in the grammatical structure to assist ones "decoding of the translated text".  Machine translations between languages that are not closely related, as far as grammar is concerned, are probably better translated.  Translation machines are probably better teaching aids than translators, since one can learn the meaning of word more effortlessly than if one had to write the words down and look them up in a heavy book.

[Tx22]

I am using a really simple but powerful translation tool: Babelfish Instant Translation Addon

It's only for Firefox and it might be a great tool for everyone reading in this forum or on sott who isn't familiar with the english language. Are you already using it?

After activated, this Addon translates every word you mark by double-clicking immediately and automatically into your chosen language. I am using it for months now and it has greatly improved my english skills. The best thing is that you safe time because you don't need to open a separate web dictionary or book.

So it is more for translating single words than whole text passages. But after one has a basic comprehension of a language, it is easier and faster to only translate single words.

[Gawan]

I am using a really simple but powerful translation tool: Babelfish Instant Translation Addon

It's only for Firefox and it might be a great tool for everyone reading in this forum or on sott who isn't familiar with the english language. Are you already using it?

After activated, this Addon translates every word you mark by double-clicking immediately and automatically into your chosen language. I am using it for months now and it has greatly improved my english skills. The best thing is that you safe time because you don't need to open a separate web dictionary or book.

So it is more for translating single words than whole text passages. But after one has a basic comprehension of a language, it is easier and faster to only translate single words.

I remember seeing it on a friends computer and it has been Internet Explorer, you just have to go over the word and it gets translated. Nonetheless this add for Firefox sound also very usable.