Lying, Lies and Liars

Seems like most of what we are taught about "liars" has been taught to us BY liars so as to better deceive us...
BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4824426.stm


The image of a twitchy nervous liar touching his nose and stroking his hair may itself be a lie, a study says.

Italian and British researchers found when people lied they tended to stay still as they were acutely aware their body language might give them away.

The team monitored 130 volunteers as they were asked to make a series of honest and dishonest statements.

The study, in Journal of Nonverbal Behaviour, found liars touched their noses 20% less than truth tellers.

Psychologist Dr Samantha Mann, who co-authored the study, said there was a popular perception that when people lie they scratch their nose and play with their hair more.

These movements are known as self-adaptor gestures which serve to comfort a person feeling vulnerable or exposed.

Instead of giving into these urges, she claimed, liars tried very hard to stay still and were just as likely as an honest person to look the questioner in the eye.

She added: "People expect liars to be nervous and shifty and to fidget more, but our research shows that is not the case.

"People who are lying have to think harder, and when we think harder we tend to be a lot stiller, with fewer movements, because we are concentrating harder."

She added: "As soon as we know that we are lying we suddenly become very aware of our behaviour.

"Most people tend to refrain from making movements at all."

The team from the universities of Portsmouth and Bergamo in Italy, also looked for changes in seven categories of hand gestures in their volunteers.

Self-adapting gestures

They found liars literally went to huge lengths to cover their tracks, especially when they were challenged over whether they were telling the truth.

Those under strong suspicion used certain types of hand gestures more in order reinforce the point.

The use of metaphoric gestures - such as touching the heart to show love and or the holding of hands apart to indicate size - were used 25% more often when people lied.

Rhythmic gestures such as repeated pointing to emphasise statements were also used more often by liars.

However, the use of what body language experts refer to as "self-adapting gestures" such as striking the hair, nose or other parts of the body, were used those telling lies 15-20% less.

Dr Peter Bull, a psychologist who has looked into the link between deception and body language, said there was a popular misconception that if someone is touching their nose they are more likely to be lying.

He said: "There is no Pinocchio's nose of lying. It doesn't mean that if you touch your nose in a certain way you are lying.

"And if it did people would stop doing it."

He said there needed to be a much closer analysis of what the subjects were saying when they did certain types of gestures.

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

Personally I habitually use a lot of hand gestures in conversation, both metaphoric and rhythmic, probably to underline what I am trying to say. I tend to regard opinions of psychological behaviour with suspicion when my own spontaneous habits of expression happen to be presented as symptoms of pathology. Experts often tend to suggest you deny your better judgment in favour of their shifting views.

Liars are manipulators and there is obviously no room for spontaneous body language in that manipulation. A liar can easily read this article and adapt accrodingly. Of course, any liar could really get confused with all the differing views out there!

I am beginning to wonder even if lie detectors were not by happenstance tailor-made so nervous innocent people incriminate themselves, and calm liars get off scott free.

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

I think the survey could be flawed by way of the assumption that everyone is the same and basically honest, so to say. On the one hand there are people who might lie only on rare occasions and may feel guilt and aprehension of being challenged 'in the moment' due to having little experience of twisting the lie to suit the new evidence.
On the other end of the scale there is the experienced compulsive liar who could tell you black is white without twitching a muscle. Like some politicians for example. These type of people would have more reason to study and perfect their art.

There's also the reason for the lie and how long one has got to prepare. This wouldn't make a difference to the regular liar I think, but could make a difference with the more honest oriented person.

Yeah, I'm with you on the lie detector theory EsoQuest.

Alan

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

Yes, I think the type of lie and the amount of time the person has to prepare and practice can make a big difference in their behavior. Habitual liars who are accustomed to telling the same sort of lies on an ongoing basis (car salesmen?) would be less likely to use any of the obvious lie behaviors.

Then there are the people who have told the same lies so many times they begin to believe in them because the people they are telling them to tend to believe them. They would probably not exhibit any behaviors while lying that are any different than when they are telling the truth.

Generally honest people who are telling a big lie would be the ones I would think most likely to display the behavioral characteristics indicated in the study.

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

Justin said:

Then there are the people who have told the same lies so many times they begin to believe in them because the people they are telling them to tend to believe them. They would probably not exhibit any behaviors while lying that are any different than when they are telling the truth.

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This reminded me of something: I'm the oldest of three sisters, the only one old enough to clearly remember back to 'the good old days' before our father became a Jehovah's Witness. He (and our family dynamics) were very different then, and my sisters have often asked me to tell them what I can remember of that time, such as what it was like when our family still celebrated Christmas and our father would spend Sundays racing stock cars rather than at the Kingdom Hall. One of my sisters has borrowed one of those memories and, for reasons I can only surmise, made it her own. I was amazed to hear her telling it to someone one day right in front of me. Later when we were alone I pointed out it had happened right around the time she was born, suggesting that it was highly unlikely, even impossible, she could actually remember it, especially as she'd related it. I also pointed out she had worded it exactly as I remembered it, and as I had told it to her. This suggestion didn't go over well, and I realized she truly did believe it was her memory as she explained that it had to be since she had a clear 'mental picture' of it. I realized she'd formed this 'picture' to correspond exactly to the story I had told to her, more than once, such as one forms a mental picture while reading the descriptions in a novel. No wonder she could relate it with such conviction and as her own, and right in front of me! She would have passed a lie detector easily, I think.

I suppose the lies we tell ourselves, and others, become a sort of 'de facto truth' to us when we do it well enough, or often enough, especially when we are inclined to live in a state of wishful thinking.

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

This new information makes me think about a video I saw of David Icke interviewing Arizona Wilder. She was like a statue with it's lips moving....

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

Miss Isness said:

This new information makes me think about a video I saw of David Icke interviewing Arizona Wilder. She was like a statue with it's lips moving....

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You should watch a video of interviews with Al Bielek... talk about a zombie!

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

I've been thinking quite a bit about psychopathy this last month, and the more I think about it the more it seems that several key issues are always missed. It seems to me that the key is that psychopaths NEVER lie to themselves, and consider everything they tell to others a lie - even if it isn't obvious - even to them (even if it is true) - they are purely opportunistic. Now most of us who are non-psychopathic know we have a few lies we tell ourselves and more often than not we strive to be honest with others.
This may be a strange irony about my life, but once and only once have I seen a person twitch while telling a lie and they were without a doubt a psychopath. As it all works out part of her manipulations was that is was "convienent" for her that I should know that she was telling me a lie - she wanted me to know, but me in my supreme ditziness didn't know what to think cause nobody twitches when they lie, or at least from what I have seen. The zombie thing is also key, but then it only applies to O.P.'s. Lie detectors are completely flawed even the most saintly people can pass them when they lie and a seasoned psychopath who has lied to everyone else eveyday of their life can pass them all that more easily. I would think a non-psychopath would be the one who was too self-aware to twich (when they lie), they (the psychopath) simply wouldn't care - it's their daily experience anyway. In a way this article is a bit "iffy" in that it would teach a non-psychopathic person to be more "self-aware" and become a bit more like a zombie in their own right - when they lie at least. Did you catch that last part - this article teaches a non-psychopath how to fail at telling a lie. A psychopath though completely and absolutly "self-aware" would never get all twitchy unless they want you to know they were lieing and nobody normally would twitch at all (unless falsely accused). A person who was falsely accused of some crime would be in a state of supreme nervousness - how could they not twitch? Or put another way - a psychopath would never under any circumstance even think about the possibilty they could be caught in a lie whereas a normal non-psycopath would fear being called a liar even when they were telling the truth. In a way I think there is no such thing as a typical behaviour that describes a liar. Well, I think I should stop here being that I'm on the verge of rambling ...

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

It seems to me that the key is that psychopaths NEVER lie to themselves, and consider everything they tell to others a lie - even if it isn't obvious - even to them (even if it is true) - they are purely opportunistic. Now most of us who are non-psychopathic know we have a few lies we tell ourselves and more often than not we strive to be honest with others.

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If psychopaths are prone to wishful thinking then it would logically follow that they do lie to themselves. I suppose they lie to themselves about the extent to which they can succeed in dominating others. They somehow fail to see that they are on the road to self destruction, and that the closer they get to complete domination, the closer they'll be to annihlation.

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

clarification - I mean't that they don't lie to themselves ABOUT themselves. Even wishfull thinking doesn't require one to lie to themselves so much as an ability to ignore all sides of a given topic. To give an extreme example - a serial killer doesn't lie to themselves about being a serial killer - they know they are a serial killer and are okay with it. They don't seem to lie to themselves about their ability to dominate others or to continue without getting caught - they don't consider things in that way. The same kind of thing applies to lizzies when it comes to wishfull thinking - it isn't that they lie to themselves about success or about being on the path of self-destruction, from their point of view they are closer to success than ever before - they simply don't see any other outcome than the one they are working towards. I find it a bit strange that they can exist as forth density and still be bound by such tunnel vision ...

Liars 'too self aware to twitch'

Well being an experienced liar myself I can comment on some effective mechanisms:

appearing nonchalant so as not to arouse suspicion of "involvement" - used to use it with the police in my younger days.

appearing open and helpful - talkative even - used to work with parents

avoid all the usual face touching, looking away

remembering to breath and be relaxed - people can pick on tension

the best one as George Constanza would say is "you've got to believe the lie." But perhaps that's walking into the psychopath mind state...

I spotted an interesting article today. Although I happen to disagree with many of the things stated on "how to spot a liar" since as we know there is deviants out there who look for articles just like this to make their lying skills even better and less noticeable to detect. I thought it was interesting, especially their reference to the media telling lies.

*Note* please go to the actual artilce if you wish to go to the link they refer you to the "ten ways".

From: http://ca(dot)pfinance.yahoo.com/ca_finance_general/84/ten-ways-to-tell-if-someone-is-lying-to-you

Ten Ways To Tell If Someone Is Lying To You
Elisabeth Eaves
Friday, November 03, 2006

In business, politics and romance, it would be nice to know when we're being lied to. Unfortunately humans aren't very good at detecting lies. Our natural tendency is to trust others, and for day-to-day, low-stakes interactions, that makes sense. We save time and energy by taking statements like "I saw that movie" or "I like your haircut" at face value.

But while it would be too much work to analyze every interaction for signs of deception, there are times when we really need to know if we're getting the straight story. Maybe a crucial negotiation depends on knowing the truth, or we've been lied to and want to find out if it's part of a pattern.

In fact, being able to distinguish lies from truth is important not just in our personal lives but in the economy at large. Trust lubricates virtually every transaction we undertake. In fact, trust may be worth as much as $12.4 trillion dollars a year in the United States alone, about 99.5% of GDP. It's no stretch to argue that by reducing trust, liars make us collectively poorer.

Lies told on the printed page or on a TV screen may be the hardest to detect.When a journalist at a respected publication tells a tall tale--like the New York Times' Jayson Blair or The New Republic's Stephen Glass--those of us without reams of time on our hands aren't likely to uncover it on our own. The same goes for deceptive campaign advertisements. Fortunately, at least in the case of politics, we can rely on nonprofit, nonpartisan organizations like Factcheck.org, to review the veracity of political claims coming from both sides of the aisle.

Face to face it's easier to make our own judgments about whether someone is telling the truth. Psychologists who study deception, though, are quick to warn that there is no foolproof method. Bella DePaulo, a visiting professor of psychology at the University of California, Santa Barbara, writes that "lying is not a distinct psychological process with its own unique behavioral indicators. It does matter how liars feel and how they think." Indeed, many of the tell-tale signs common to liars, like fidgeting and sweating, can also be signs of ordinary anxiety. It's tough to tell the difference between a liar and an honest person who happens to be under a lot of stress.

That said, police officers and spies use a slew of interrogation tricks that the rest of us can adopt to improve our detection odds. The professionals look and listen for signs of nervousness, and pay close attention to the content of a suspect's story. Does it contain a lot of detail? Does it stay consistent through repeated tellings?

Of course, there will always be those who have honed their deception skills to perfection, and they're never easy to catch. Hardened criminals, especially ones who have been interrogated dozens of times, get better and better at lying, says 20-year New York Police Department veteran Derrick Parker. Magicians also know how to deceive by exhibiting a pleasant manner and relying on spectators' assumptions.

For most of us, though, it's not magicians or criminal masterminds we need to worry about when it comes to detecting deceivers. In fact, we should be most on guard against ourselves. "Often we don't want to know when somebody is lying," explains University of Massachusetts psychology professor Robert Feldman. In short, we are programmed to believe compliments and avoid painful truths, both of which make a liar's task much easier.

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Ten Ways To Tell If Someone Is Lying To You

Here are the ten ways captured from the slide show:

Watch Body Language

Derrick Parker, a 20-year veteran of the New York Police Department and co-author of Notorious C.O.P., says to look for physical clues, especially sweating and fidgeting.

Seek Detail

Liars' stories often lack detail, says Lindsay Moran, a former CIA officer and author of Blowing My Cover: My Life as a CIA Spy. Her solution: Push your subject for particulars. The more minutiae a liar has to provide, the more likely he is to slip up.

Beware Unpleasantness

"Liars are noticeably less cooperative than truth-tellers," found psychologists Bella M. DePaulo and Wendy L. Morris in a review of studies on deception. "Liars also make more negative statements and complaints than truth-tellers do, and they appear somewhat less friendly and pleasant," they write in The Detection of Deception in Forensic Contexts.

Observe Eye Contact

A subject's failure to make eye contact is often sign of deceit, say both former NYPD officer Parker and former CIA agent Moran.

Signs of Stress

Look for dilated pupils and a rise in vocal pitch. Psychologists DePaulo and Morris found that both phenomena were more common in liars than truth-tellers.

Listen for the Pause

Forced to make up a story on the spot, most speakers will take a beat or two to collect their thoughts.

Ask Again

Police interrogators often ask suspects to repeat their stories, and listen for inconsistencies to ferret out lies. But be careful: "Smart people maintain the consistency of lies better than dumb people," says psychologist Robert Feldman, a professor of psychology at the University of Massachusetts.

Beware Those Who Protest Too Much

Someone who consciously is trying to make you think he's honest--for instance, by injecting the phrase "to be honest"--may be lying. Most people assume they will be trusted most of the time. If someone expects otherwise, take a moment to ask yourself why.

Know Thyself

One reason liars succeed is that listeners don't really want to know the truth, says psychologist Feldman. So be honest with yourself about what it is you want to hear. You may wish to believe that a trusted employee didn't have his hand in the cookie jar. But does his story actually make sense?

Work on Your Intuition

"Good human lie detectors, if there are such persons, are likely to be good intuitive psychologists. They would figure out how a person might think or feel if lying in a particular situation, compared to telling the truth, then look for behavioral indications of those thoughts or feelings," write psychologists De Paulo and Morris.

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Somehow, I don't think these people are really aware of the fact that there are a LOT of psychopaths in the world, and the numbers seem to be increasing. They also don't seem to be aware of the "integral lie," which is often part and parcel of the OP who really believes, in the moment, that they are telling the truth.

So, basically, this will only work if you are dealing with someone who is basically sincere and, for whatever reason, feels compelled to lie and isn't used to doing it.

Ten Ways To Tell If Someone Is Lying To You

Laura said:

So, basically, this will only work if you are dealing with someone who is basically sincere and, for whatever reason, feels compelled to lie and isn't used to doing it.

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I can give a personal example. There is a coworker of mine, very compassionate and caring person. Her dream is to create a non-profit corporation that helps people in need.
She also can read and understand other people's needs or spot deception and lies, but only within her own perception of the world. For example: there is a very poor cleaning lady that works with us and struggling to get some extra money from a government because her own salary can' sustain her and her small child. So she will try think about working out some additional solution for her. It seems that this coworker really has a heart or an ability to care. But even she succumbed to a social programming and can't grasp the idea that there is no "us vs them", only interests of those in power. She said to me that once she was pretty left in her political believes (pro Palestinian) but this is obvious to her that "those Arabs just don't want peace and only wan to kill us all". She is aware that there are evil people that will use any situation in their favor, but won't do anything about it and will say that this is just an order of things, or that we just don't understand the whole picture, and all of them have somehow good intentions. So apparently spotting a lie is not enough, because it's can be easily ignored. Or this "spotting instrument" is very limited and interpretates data according to her own beliefs, like trust in politicians or media.

Being a rather exceptional liar I thought i'd compose a little instruction on the

fine points of a lie. Regardless if you don't need to lie, knowing how to lie is the

perfect way to be a better lie detector.

This is just my opinion, suggestions, and train of thought when it comes to being in a pinch.


Remember this, you shouldn't ever flat out lie, unless the circumstances make it so

that any truth entails an unbearable amount of punishment.


Ill bullet off some tips.


-First and foremost, Relax, if your being interrogated, get comfortable in your

skin, any interrogator's main goal will to either make you too comfortable or

uncomfortable. Nervousness is a universal sign for liar, and at the same time it

leads to mistakes.

-Secondly, Your telling the truth, and at that your emotional. Dont try to control

yourself, if -you- don't believe your telling the truth then don't expect the target

party too. Mixing in truth with the lie makes the lie easier to tell, the lie will

flow out with the truth, and alone a lie is unprovable, and lacking. A lacking story

becomes doubt, doubt becomes skepticism. Tell as much truth as you can. "Well, I

didn't eat all the cookies in the cookie jar, but I did have one of the smaller

ones...sorry."

-Keep your body moving, add emotion and be charismatic. Nodding your head, moving

your eyes, staring into their eyes, cringing, furrowing your eyebrows, all add to

your credibility.

-Never rush an excuse, detail, or alibi. If you don't have something to say its

better not to say anything at all. For example, if they ask for an alibi for a

violation presented, simply stare into their eyes in questioning hurt. Put a , "how

could you ask me that as if it were me" look across your face while you prepare you

alibi. preferably uncheckable, or have it vaguely checkable with your normal

routine.

-Details, Details, Details. ALWAYS, over answer. Unless they beat you over the head

with a stick for it <g>. give as many meaningless details as possible, don't over do

it, but add a few in where possible.

-Engage. Don't just back down and answer questions. Who says you cant ask one or two?

-Its OK to stop and not answer, but don't let it hurt you. People will present

something I call "crushing" evidence on you, Its seemingly undeniable evidence ,

however, if it was undeniable they wouldn't be asking the questions in the first

place. Scoff, chuckle, hum "hmmm" with your mouth closed say things like, "Well

thats interesting", "I'm not exactly sure, maybe I could tell you what I know and

help you figure it out" or something like (inhale sharply) and say "I don't know" with

a sense of you being oblivious to helpful information, and turn your hand over

towards them as if to offer what you have, -nothing-.

Some fun emotions to use that all add to your character.

Note: Don't use anger, at least I would advise against it, its not only obvious,

obnoxious, and hard to control, but you want to be on their side. under certain

circumstance it does work, but in normal settings it is your last choice.

These are most useful when being interrogated.

- Ignorance while wanting to be helpful. Offer up useless information and ask if it

helps, when they say no ask them what does. When they relate to you what they need,

tell them little bits and say sorry you would like to help however thats all you

know. if they pull anything else out of you treat it like an epiphany, you just

remember this amazing thing that could help, but try to make it the least helpful as

possible.


-Tired. Yawn, put your head down, mumble, apologize for your lack of energy saying

you didn't get to sleep till late because of nightmares. If they try saying

nightmares about the thing you supposedly did, have a a weird nightmare ready.

-Coming clean. Act as if your coming clean about wrong doing with a lie in your

favour about the wrong doing, makes it difficult to accuse you of lying.

-Annoyingly questioning. "Why would you want to know that?" self explanatory.

Well, you get the idea, develop your personality and wield it.

If you get caught in a lie you have to be prepared to change on the spot to something

slightly more truthful. Or you can continue with you current lie by throwing doubt

over their once undeniable accusation. To change a lie is extremely risky, you've lost

your credibility, so, come clean, with another lie, mixed with slightly more truth.

Do it as if you feel ashamed of yourself for the first lie.


Remember this, people have 'intent' when then scenario begins to unfold. Identify it

and work around it, there's three kinds of intent, the kind where a party is

pulling for you to be telling the truth, the kind where they don't trust you, and

the most dangerous kind, the open minded inquirer.

You could always try "Stonewalling". Most useful in the USA, call your lawyer and

say nothing. common, but theres an art to it. You have to be able to stay entirley

non-complacent and make it so that you don't become the primary suspect. But, WHAT

FUN IS THAT! <g>

Theres many more dynamics to lying I just simply have lost my train of thought,

maybe ill add more later.

Know this though, Just because you can lie doesn't mean you should, the truth the

greatest weapon.

Feel free to add some ideas you've found useful :)