Author Topic: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors  (Read 43139 times)

Offline Laura

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #255 on: April 04, 2011, 10:51:01 PM »
Luke, you sound like you really KNOW the score on Les - like from the inside!
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline luke wilson

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #256 on: April 04, 2011, 11:24:05 PM »
Luke, you sound like you really KNOW the score on Les - like from the inside!

Are you being serious or trying to bring my attention onto something I should work on, like not talk about people like I know them?

Uhmm, my post was written from the impression I got from the excerpt you posted and because I suppose, I kind of know some people who like to play such games or atleast I think they play similar games - your comment is making me question myself. I figured they might all be cut from the same cloth. I might be mistaken! GULP  :D

Offline Laura

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #257 on: April 04, 2011, 11:29:56 PM »
Luke, you sound like you really KNOW the score on Les - like from the inside!

Are you being serious or trying to bring my attention onto something I should work on, like not talk about people like I know them?

Uhmm, my post was written from the impression I got from the excerpt you posted and because I suppose, I kind of know some people who like to play such games or atleast I think they play similar games - your comment is making me question myself. I figured they might all be cut from the same cloth. I might be mistaken! GULP  :D

Well, you see, going back over your posting history, it seems that you have problems now and then correctly reading people or situations.  But you are so sure you are reading this one right.  So, maybe you are?  If so, is it because you know about this type of person because you are one of them, or maybe this is the type of person you have spent a lot of time around, in which case your other failures to "see the unseen" might be explainable.   In any event, even THIS situation is incorrectly read by you.  What is being posted here isn't for Les Visible, it is for other readers who can learn from it. 

But you don't let any of your past failures stop you from being so sure of yourself every single time.

Think about it.
He who learns must suffer
And even in our sleep pain that cannot forget
Falls drop by drop upon the heart,
And in our own despair, against our will,
Comes wisdom to us by the awful grace of God.
Agamemnon, Aeschylus

Offline Palinurus

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #258 on: April 04, 2011, 11:56:57 PM »
@ Gimpy

I feel I owe you a 'Thank You' for explaining. Just realised I learned something I didn't know that I didn't know about. Very entertaining as well as enlightening. Learning is FUN, for sure...
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Offline luke wilson

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #259 on: April 05, 2011, 01:21:17 AM »
Luke, you sound like you really KNOW the score on Les - like from the inside!

Are you being serious or trying to bring my attention onto something I should work on, like not talk about people like I know them?

Uhmm, my post was written from the impression I got from the excerpt you posted and because I suppose, I kind of know some people who like to play such games or atleast I think they play similar games - your comment is making me question myself. I figured they might all be cut from the same cloth. I might be mistaken! GULP  :D

Well, you see, going back over your posting history, it seems that you have problems now and then correctly reading people or situations.  But you are so sure you are reading this one right.  So, maybe you are?  If so, is it because you know about this type of person because you are one of them, or maybe this is the type of person you have spent a lot of time around, in which case your other failures to "see the unseen" might be explainable.   In any event, even THIS situation is incorrectly read by you.  What is being posted here isn't for Les Visible, it is for other readers who can learn from it. 

But you don't let any of your past failures stop you from being so sure of yourself every single time.

Think about it.

I am responding because I dont want to miss a learning opportunity.

So was I seeing the unseen - make my day, make my LIFE and tell me the truth which I hope is YES? Is that it? Because if it is, I have finally pinpointed a single 'gem' in my machine that hopefully I can keep in mind. Don't take any other post from my history into consideration, just that single post!!! I can handle a no.

That post was made on the basis, of a certain feeling, maybe impression, maybe wave, that I rod along. I am well... ok, fairly to mildly well acquanted with it as every now and again it pops up in whatever situation and I ride on it to the other side. However, this happens rarely and for dangerously short space of time. How can I describe it, a sense of knowing but in a different way, a sense of feeling or reading something from 2 different places at once, I take it is somehow connected to empathy, that feeling of knowing how someone else is feeling and how you feel at the same time thus being able to bridge the two. Anyways, it just happens at random and disappears almost as quick as it appears... I would say, the situation calls it forth but I dont know what criteria it uses to decide what situation is worthy and what isnt. I am still but a mechanical toy...

Anyways that is that... My other posts are just plain old me, for the most part.

I am still certain of myself, in this situation, despite this

Quote from:  Laura
In any event, even THIS situation is incorrectly read by you.  What is being posted here isn't for Les Visible, it is for other readers who can learn from it. 

in anticipation or rather, doubt/worry at the time of posting, to bridge two gaps, I wrote

Quote
To backtrack abit, eventhough I think the furore about les acts to inflate his own personal ego, it might be a wonderful learning opportunity for alot of people so I am by no means discouraging or talking down this thread.

I really want to know what I connected to, something objective or just another subjective illusion. It felt real to me, but then again, subjectivity feels real for the most otherwise the world would be different.  :shock:








Offline Gimpy

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #260 on: April 05, 2011, 02:18:39 AM »
@ Gimpy

I feel I owe you a 'Thank You' for explaining. Just realised I learned something I didn't know that I didn't know about. Very entertaining as well as enlightening. Learning is FUN, for sure...

Same here, Palinurus. Thank you.  :D
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Offline WhiteBear

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #261 on: April 05, 2011, 02:56:34 AM »
That post was made on the basis, of a certain feeling, maybe impression, maybe wave, that I rod along. I am well... ok, fairly to mildly well acquanted with it as every now and again it pops up in whatever situation and I ride on it to the other side. However, this happens rarely and for dangerously short space of time. How can I describe it, a sense of knowing but in a different way, a sense of feeling or reading something from 2 different places at once, I take it is somehow connected to empathy, that feeling of knowing how someone else is feeling and how you feel at the same time thus being able to bridge the two. Anyways, it just happens at random and disappears almost as quick as it appears... I would say, the situation calls it forth but I dont know what criteria it uses to decide what situation is worthy and what isnt. I am still but a mechanical toy...

Luke, this sounds very familiar to me.  It describes almost to a T what I used to do when I was in my "prime" of Wicca.  I would "know without knowing how", which was very frustrating to me as it was spontaneous and usually had very little use, other than as a parlor trick to inflate my ego.  Whether it was me tapping into some collective unconscious, or spirit attachments whispering in my mind, or whatever, I eventually "reasoned" it to be "inductive" rather than "deductive" reasoning.  I don't accept "just knowing" anymore, since joining this forum.  Knowledge without facts is just an illusion, and for me to try to "see the unseen" without the deductive, logical reasoning behind it is 10 steps backward to where I used to be.
"God is dead." - Nietzsche
"Nietzsche is dead." - God

Offline Lilou

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #262 on: April 05, 2011, 07:50:19 AM »
I did not know anything about Les Visible or that he wrote blogs until coming upon this thread.  I recently went to his sites and read for a bit.   At his origami site, he wrote a piece telling about his run-ins with the law in Hawaii and later in Virginia (while living in Washington DC).  Both were drug charges.   While he admits they “had him”, he somehow managed to get out of a very stiff prison sentence in Hawaii.  The how and why of this is obscure.  He basically said he had a “good mob lawyer”.   He stated that he was either “in or on the run” for 6 years after the trouble in VA.  BUT, he eventually got a government pardon!  Wonder what you have to do to get one of those?   Is that granted to common folk?   I always had the impression you’d have to be quite well connected to get one or give something in return?

For somone who has already had a couple of close calls with the law, he makes no secret about his drug use and seems to portrait that he is somehow “above the law” in this regard.  I find this very odd.  And to be casually blurting all this out over the world wide web, without discretion, makes you wonder.   Just who is Les Visible?
 
His candid writing does seem to draw a number of people.  It makes him seem familiar, like an old pair of slippers that you really should throw out, but they’re real comfy.   He strikes me as someone who shoots from the hip, often without forethought.   Some of his writings are excellent, while others are just mindless ramblings.   His brain chemistry seems to run the show, lacking in “high road” action and external consideration. 

As for me, I’ve learned when the slipper is beyond repair, I toss it out!   
Imagine a world in which every single person on the planet has free access to the sum of all human knowledge!    Jimmy Wales, founder of wikipedia

Offline SeekinTruth

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #263 on: April 05, 2011, 08:15:11 AM »
This whole situation with Les is reminiscent of many other similar situations. As has been mentioned, Charlie Sheen, as well as, John Kaminski, the whole background to the Laurel Canyon scene and the Hippie generation, etc. That post on his blog, "Everybody Hurts, Nobody Wins" is SO bizarre and incoherent, it hurts my mind reading it. I too remember "back in the day" when Les Visible was one of the best essayists on the web. His writing WAS excellent and inspirational.

He kept hammering away at 9/11 being an inside job and exposing Zionist agendas and machinations combined with a "non-denominational," free-wheeling spirituality and spiritual principles, and very well written with humor and lots of research and many, many links in his blog posts. All of this and more were why I liked his writing so much. It seemed very collinear with SOTT, just written in a bit of a different style which was also welcome from the point of view of creative diversity.

Funny that just as Les was REALLY hitting his stride (around the first half of 2008 or so), Kaminski was in the process of losing it and "going off the deep end." We know with John Kaminski, a certain person was inserted into his life and she facilitated the downward spiral for John. What about Les, what happened to him? It's difficult, if not impossible, to say without more data. How far back does all this go in the case of Les? Again, I don't know. But we saw the, at first, gradual and now accelerating deterioration. He sure seems to have some VERY interesting episodes and circumstances in his background which, by the way, seem to be perfect opportunities for mind control techniques while feeding his weaknesses to get him onto the self-destruct train. That all depends on just how accurate all of that is, as well.

Sure, his drug abuse is a big part of it, but the methods and amount of time the powers that pull the strings in these situations use are many and varied. I also don't know whether John Kaminski's behavior would be as vile as what Les Visible has been engaging in lately. In any case, we are witnessing another valuable voice with so much potential being taken out, yet again. As we know, there is a covert war raging and these are some of the types of battles waged. It is all par for the course.

It's sad, as always, to see these things play out and see another "warrior for truth" fall on the battle field (if Les ever WAS that in any real sense, which I tend to think he was, but I guess anything can be faked to a certain degree for a while) . But it doesn't get to me in as intense a way as it used to. I know that it's almost inevitable that these type of things will continue to happen without the awareness, efforts, and precautions taken to keep from being taken out of the game and made ineffective for all practical intents and purposes.

It didn't HAVE to be this way with Les, as with others, if he was willing to network with a sincere group such as this who would watch his back and warn him of the dangers of the way he's headed. But he didn't want to hear any of it and didn't take the warnings seriously. So the current situation and outcome was virtually inevitable.

One other thing all of this reminded me of was how Gurdjieff used to use alcohol at his large dinners to bring out and show a side of people that they normally would be able to hide. For a certain duration of time, there is always the opportunity to be sincere with oneself (and those trying to point these things out) and working on healing and changing these sides of oneself. IF there's anything else in there to grow and develop at the expense of losing the previously better hidden sides.


ADDED: I just saw your post, Lilou. I agree with the curious questions you have raised about Les. But I just want to make the point that Les and others could have been targeted (long ago) BECAUSE they had so much potential. Again, it's difficult to say, if not impossible. What we know for certain is only where he ended up.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 08:17:59 AM by SeekinTruth »
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Offline T.C.

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #264 on: April 05, 2011, 01:19:16 PM »
Quote from: lw
So was I seeing the unseen - make my day, make my LIFE and tell me the truth which I hope is YES? Is that it? Because if it is, I have finally pinpointed a single 'gem' in my machine that hopefully I can keep in mind. Don't take any other post from my history into consideration, just that single post!!! I can handle a no.

No Luke.

If you had read Laura's last post to you, which you even quoted, you would have seen the line:

Quote from: Laura
In any event, even THIS situation is incorrectly read by you.

As to your assessment of Les, the impression you gave me through your complete and total self-confidence, led me to believe you were lost in projection and that you were really just describing yourself.

Quote from: lw
Does anyone not get why he is doing all this? IT IS BECAUSE HE CAN and he probably has just discovered this and is revelling in it!! He is probably BORED stiff out of his mind and using you guys for entertainment/selfimportance-value, there is only so much entertainment his 'imaginary' friends can offer.
Existence is a full time job, so choose one you like.

Offline D

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #265 on: April 05, 2011, 01:35:32 PM »

At this point, the POINT is surrender. Don't fight with a madman!! A madman has nothing to lose!!!! This guy should come with a warning sign.

This could be said about anybody that's COINTELPRO, like Alex Jones, Vinny, Jay Weidner. They should all come with warning signs but they don't. The point is for us to be the warning signs for people who choose to research about the person they read stuff from. People like Les have a potential to be very dangerous to people who read his writings and take it literally, and tend to identify with him. He should be exposed.

To backtrack abit, eventhough I think the furore about les acts to inflate his own personal ego, it might be a wonderful learning opportunity for alot of people so I am by no means discouraging or talking down this thread.

That's funny that you say this, because your whole post (to me) came across as exactly the opposite. It came across as if you were mocking this thread, and telling people to just "surrender" because this guy is nuts, so who cares.

Oh and Lilou, those are some excellent questions! Not sure if we'll ever find answers to them, but it definitely makes one wonder..
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 01:37:10 PM by Deedlet »
**Humans, members of one great whole,
In creation, one essence, one great soul,
When a single member’s afflicted by pain,
Renders with pain other members to turn,
You, with no compassion for the hurt soul
Can’t claim self human in part or in whole** - Saadi Shirazi

**This wheel of the universe that disconserts us
    We imagine it as a revolving lantern
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Offline luke wilson

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #266 on: April 05, 2011, 01:41:44 PM »
Quote from:  T.C.
No Luke.

Oh well... Can't say I am that dissappointed. The battle goes on..

Quote from:  T.C.
As to your assessment of Les, the impression you gave me through your complete and total self-confidence, led me to believe you were lost in projection and that you were really just describing yourself.

I might be wrong, but here was my reasoning.

Les is clearly talented. If we are to be honest, this is the truth.

The problem with some talented people, is that after some time no matter what talent they possess, it starts eating away at them. They become maybe arrogant, sure of themselves, blind, etc. So right now that is what he is. He then looks at himself and I am sure he has acknowledged this, then he has a decision to make, to backtrack or to proceed. So why would he backtrack, surely that is the biggest form of self-doubt for such a person? To come out and say drug use is wrong, what he gets when he is under the influence isnt real, just illusions, or that he didnt conduct himself properly when he went to see Laura. He can say all this, make a huge leap and try to turn a corner, but why should he??? It so happens that things have played out that way, for 1 he thinks drug use enables him to reach a 'real' level, this is where deception takes on the image of something real and the victim is lost, then he could use whatever self-observation faculties he has left to him to, backtrack thus causing him some ego-suffering. Why does he want to put himself through that? He is brilliant, he has years of excellent work as many readers are saying. All those years have built an image and impression of invisibility, now he finds himself here and you know what, from his point of view, the problem is everyone else, NOT him. OSIT

For more information I refer you to this

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/226549-Do-Narcissists-Know-They-Are-Narcissists-

Les isnt blind for the most part. He is well aware what he is doing and I think he LOVES it. Now I dont really know him, I am just using the tools available, like this article for example, to see where patterns fit and what that might mean.

Quote
Unsurprisingly, they found that narcissists think they are hot stuff. Those scoring high in narcissism tended to rate themselves as more intelligent, physically attractive, likeable, and funny than others. Interestingly, they also rated themselves as having higher levels of negative aspects of narcissism, such as being power-oriented, impulsive, arrogant, and prone to exaggerate their abilities! Therefore, narcissists are aware they are narcissists.

There was also a strong positive correlation between narcissism and having a reputation for narcissism: narcissists were definitely perceived as narcissists! While other people didn't think the narcissists were nearly as hot as the narcissists thought they were, the narcissists were well aware of their reputation! When asked how others perceive them on the positive traits, their results were closer to how they were actually perceived than their own self-perceptions of the very same traits.

These results suggest that narcissists do indeed have self-awareness of themselves and know their reputation. This begs the question: how can narcissists maintain their inflated self-image even though they know full well how they are perceived by others? The researchers suggest a few intriguing possibilities.

Perhaps narcissists assume that others are just failing to realize how bitchin' they really are. They may think that people are just "too dim to recognize their brilliance". Another possibility is that narcissists may think critics are just "jealous of them". Narcissists may take negative feedback and think to themselves: those haters are just jealous!

Offline aaron r

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #267 on: April 05, 2011, 03:44:01 PM »
Hi Luke, I think the golden learning opportunity in this for you is what Laura asked you to think about. Fwiw
alea iacta est- Julius Caesar

Offline anart

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #268 on: April 05, 2011, 04:15:40 PM »

It's sad, as always, to see these things play out and see another "warrior for truth" fall on the battle field (if Les ever WAS that in any real sense, which I tend to think he was, but I guess anything can be faked to a certain degree for a while).

ANYTHING can be faked by a certain type of person for quite some time to serve an agenda. Anything.  Never underestimate what 'they' are willing to do to.  As I said previously, I don't think Les 'fell', I think Les was always who he is now and has always been serving a very particular purpose - he had the ego to fit the bill and the mental instability and proclivity for drugs to make it easy (no one's driving the bus) - almost like he was 'custom made'.  Perhaps there was a point when he was young that he could have become something else - I certainly can't speak to such things because there's no way to know - but time and again we see this same scenario.

We see a person who steps into a role (or is groomed for it) to relieve a certain tension in society but never really changes anything. They speak the words others want to say or hear and in doing so, those others feel that something is being done, or at least truth is being told, so the pressure is released and they go back to sleep a little more soundly, knowing at least their viewpoint is being said out loud (the fact that it's in futility doesn't catch their attention).  So, the pressure is released, the speaker is wholly controlled and will eventually use that voice to cause harm to something that could make a difference.

Same old tactic, different silk skull cap.



Offline Jerry

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Re: Les Visible and Smoking Mirrors
« Reply #269 on: April 05, 2011, 04:22:30 PM »
Quote from: luke
The problem with some talented people, is that after some time no matter what talent they possess, it starts eating away at them. . .
So right now that is what he is. He then looks at himself and I am sure he has acknowledged this, then he has a decision to make, to backtrack or to proceed.

Luke, there’s a limit you know.

Did you ever have a conversation at a party and some noisy dude keeps interrupting because he just had to say something, anything?
esse conscius