Get out of US?

I have been seriously pondering on this question, that is, should I
sell everything I have and get myself and my family out of the US?

I do recall: 'it is not where you are but who you are and what you
see', and in a sense it could be a form of self-calming(?), but at the
same time, I seem to have this nagging feeling that there is nothing
wrong with doing your homework and moving out of harms way? The
last several articles I have read regarding comets/black-death - it
mentioned to study up on asteroid flight-paths and seems to hint to
me that maybe we can 'get out of the way' - but of course - I do not
have the mentation nor the data in hand to even get started on that.

Even if I decided to get my family out of US, where would I go? Could
I find a country that would accept me and my family in time or better
yet, would the US authorities let me leave?

I think there are some members (and moderators) in this forum who
are currently living in the USA - I wonder if they have pondered these
questions - and what are they thinking and why?

The question is, if it makes no difference WHERE you are, does it make
sense to stock up and prepare - in a sense - like any survivalist would
do? At least, perhaps I can move away from the city and find a place
more remote - at least I might be able to do just that. There are many
people who are being quite vocal about using survivalist techniques - to
stock up with water, food, medicine, hunting armaments for food when
your store runs out, and so on.

I am not fearful about it, - yet - but I often wonder if I am procrastinating
adding more to my ignorance when I could have acted on my inner sense
to DO SOMETHING and prepare for the worst?

Well, at this time, I am quite calm about it - but I am often wondering what
course of action I should take - even though I am reading SOTT and recommended
reading books, articles, alternative news, and this forum and I really appreciate
all that Laura/Ark and her Team has done for us.

Too many questions and very few answers!
Dan

I empathize with you dant, for this reason - compared to many European countries for example, the US does not seem to be interested at all in the health and well being of its citizens. In Europe it's no paradise to be sure but the situation is much different. Citizens here in the US however are for the most part no more than the economic equivalent of milk cows. If you have the means to get the heck out of dodge maybe you should seriously consider the pros and cons. With HAARP, con trails, alarming STD statistics, economic crisis, gun violence, detainment camps springing up everywhere etc etc...there are plenty of reasons to consider relocating from the US especially if you have children.

dant, i have had many of the same thoughts as you. my previous departure from this country was on an educational exchange for the university... that was fairly "easy" to accomplish. with a family, honestly, i couldn't offer any useful tips for the actual move. just, if you're going to, make sure you get in for your passport early 'cause those buggers take a while...

as far as survival techniques go, some of the basics that i've put into practice are as follows:

1: learn how to garden. if you don't have any experience with it - read up on it. soil composure, natural fertilizers, preservability, canning for veggies / dehydration for fruits, etc...

2. learn how to work with wood heat. once the noose tightens on fuel in this country it will be very hard to get. that entails learning about how to install a small wood stove and get it working without burning your place down (a perilous journey indeed) - also to note, if you use wood heat you can save your ash to use as fertilizer in the garden.

3. locate a water source. if you don't live near a body of fresh water, keep your eyes out for friends or family who have a well, and perhaps work out some kind of barter system for gallon jugs of water.

4. live without electricity for one week. this will (slightly) acclimatize you to a lot of nitpicky details that may not be evident at first. things like food preservation, plumbing/heating and communications come to mind. a point-to-point radio like a HAM or shortwave can be helpful in such a situation. look up the c-crane company for more about hand-crank radios... having a generator as backup is also very nice, but they can get expensive and they still rely on fuel to operate.

5. depending on where you live, have a bicycle, scooter or similar low-to-no fuel usage vehicle available. don't worry about snowmobiles, those burn a lot of gas and all those guys toolin' around the woods right now are going to have a rough day when they realize they can't actually go anywhere...

this is by no means comprehensive. just a few things i've done on my own and have found helpful in preparation for the potential maelstrom. as an example - we recently lost power where i live for about a day. i live in a ragged old mobile-home that's managed to stay put since '72. my neighbors live in a nice house with furnishings, etc... by the end of that day, they were asking me if i'd be willing to boil snow on my fireplace for clean water...

when things get hairy, it is those who are prepared who will be best suited to help others.

but after all that, i have to agree with you. getting the hell out of here doesn't sound like such a bad idea either.

There is no where to go, particularly if you have children
it is difficult to relocate unless you have funds protected
from coming capital controls and collapse of the dollar.
Maintaining psychological stability, circumspection, a modest
lifestyle, a network of friends seems the best alternative. The
age of tyranny is upon us. We will all have the opportunity to
have a deadly tyrannt delivering "shocks" necessary for awakening.
We will perhaps understand Jesus's cryptic saying, "Love your enemies.”
Learning gardening, plumbing, cycling, use of basic tools, all seem a
good idea. I thrive when I do a couple of hours of physical labor each
day, but I think the most valuable assests, if this crisis is anything like
the collapse of the Soviet Union, will be psychological stability and
practical skills. These will be the essentials of rebuilding community.

Dant,

I also can empathize with you, as your posts look like mine a few years ago.

However I am still in the US, have even added one more to my brood and on top of it, I live next door to the Army!

To address some of your specific questions;

"The question is, if it makes no difference WHERE you are, does it make
sense to stock up and prepare - in a sense - like any survivalist would
do?"

What are you going to 'survive'? Death? How much stockpiling is that going to take!! we all will die at some point, but in our western minds we forget this daily on purpose as the thought of what comes after is just too much processing for us to reasonably handle. If we are to reflect on what is available from Gurdjieff, we don't even have souls like many of us think we do. The accumulation of experiances instead form something that can survive the dying of the body if we are to accept G's explanation of the soul. In early transcripts, the C's mentioned at one point the ecstacy that Luara experianced upon the death of a past life. What survived if we are also to accept the transcripts as being a possibility of our reality, a past death?

Like the Buddihists that recluse themselves from 'ordinary' life, you could also do the same. You could try to preserve and survive all sorts of things you think you might know are going to happen, but perhaps the experiance of the things that we are seeking to avoid is what will allow for some part of you to 'survive' 'whatever' may be in the cards for us all.

You capitalized 'DO SOMETHING' yet right below it you say;

"Well, at this time, I am quite calm about it - but I am often wondering what
course of action I should take - "

Thinking and DOing are two very different things. "Thinking/wondering" uses a limited part of our organism, mainly the brain which is affected by all the chemicals that induce such thoughts to begin with, whereas DOing something seems to me to be the utilization of the process of self observing that involves the whole of our organism, the observing of the external impressions upon our organism. To DO then seems to be a very hard thing and rarely it seems that anying is DOne. Instead it seems there are only reactions, reactions to reactions and like the ping pong ball that is dropped into the glass cube which is lined with mousetraps holding other ping pong balls, it is nearly impossible to determine with our most used faculties to know where the one that was dropped into the cube landed or even which of the other spastically flying balls influenced directly and indirectly the outcome. That is what we are like it seems when everything is a reaction.

Being a father to my three children, the only thing that I have learned and applied is to be honest. About everything. I am not able to do much for them beyond this for their own development, as anything else seems to be a reinforcement of a meme of some sort. Your actions they watch, they process and store for later recall themselves when they become responsible adults and probably parents to your grandchildren. So if this is the case, does it matter where you are, or is it your actions in ordinary life that matters most?

Or would you rather a set of instructions be sent to you for you to perform, much like what is happening to my PC as I type and instructions are being sent to it. My PC does not DO anything on it's own, only what it is told to do.

Kind regards,
Ronald

I brings up an important point. Choosing to leave the US or not will most likely just be a reaction and nothing more (unless you have been doing the work). So it falls back to doing the work, and hopefully the more you observe the clearer you decisions come.
Trying to remember that everything is not black and white, so maybe you can improove your aim as you go.
This is just my limited understanding (and some wishful thinking by ego) at the start of the work.

Of perhaps more practical use is this article (given you mentioned 'survivalist' mentality)....holding up in the woods away from everyone with a pile of foor/water and a shotgun is not the way to go, and what comes to mind when it comes to 'survivalists' is mentioned.
_http://www.sott.net/articles/show/147683-Survival-in-Times-of-Uncertainty-Growing-Up-in-Russia-in-the-1990s
It changed my perception of survival in harsh times

There was another article that may address some fears about how the gistapo operated in nazi germany, but I can't seem to find it at the moment.
It basically said that the gestapo operated pretty much entirely on the help of the german public.
This then ties in with what I'm reading in Secret History about recognising the truth of a situation, the example given was along the lines that truth is objective to the situation, speaking the truth all the time would not be the way to go....say you where a resistance fighter in occupied france, speaking the truth in some situations would be detremental to other resistance fighters...and so it all depends on the situation.
And of course being able to judge the situation and not just react to it.
So as far as I can tell it comes back again to the work. I guess no matter where you are.

Perhaps you can use the pressure your feeling to help identify and remove some programs.

RedFox said:

Perhaps you can use the pressure your feeling to help identify and remove some programs.

Click to expand...

Good advice.

Dant, IMO these are very frightening times and they are going to continue to be frightening. Laura once asked the C's about moving and the C's said there was no where on the planet that she could go to escape the ever tightening net of control of the PTB as the Wave approaches.

The U.S. is one of the worst (though economically there are much worse--many outside the U.S. will suffer far worse from the economic collapse than Americans, IMO), but look at what's going on in France right now, as just one example. The PTB are ruining the place as fast as they can. Do you really think that most of the people wanted that creep Sarkozy? I doubt it very much.

Laura Wrote Here: http://www.sott.net/articles/show/149138-Movie-Book-Review-Sophie-s-Choice
"All through the book and movie, Sophie faces choices - as do all of us in our current reality - and in every instance, she chooses from a position of illusion of safety and fear, and it seems to be suggested that when she chooses, someone dies as a consequence of her choice. . . .

She refuses to help the Resistance in the first case mentioned above, and then again, in the prison camp where she is asked to steal a radio. She caves in to her fears again and pretends to be a Nazi supporter to try to save herself and her son, the result is nothing: her son dies anyway. Had she concentrated on helping the Resistance in both cases, it is entirely possible that, even if her children were not saved, and even if she, herself, were killed, others might have been saved by courageous acts.

But Sophie has no courage. She is little more than a bundle of neurotic fears and emotions, floundering around in a world gone mad like a fish out of water.

And so it is for so many today. It is a movie well worth watching or re-watching just to get the full impact of what is happening in our world and what will be a consequence of either inaction or selling out for the sake of peace and safety. It is also an excellent way to get the full impact of the psychopathic reality that is being created all around us by witnessing Sophie's interactions with the Nazis.

Again and again Sophie makes the wrong choices until, after it is way too late, finally, Sophie seems to understand that saving herself isn't worth what she has paid with the coin of her soul. She returns to the deadly embrace of her Jewish lover who, in his paranoid schizophrenia, takes both their lives.

Perhaps a prophetic lesson for our own times. "

Donald Hunt wrote:
"What can we do? First, gather real knowledge. Then, work on creating a true will that can act upon that knowledge. Why? The elite must be preparing the lockdown as an antidote to chaos that they can see coming. (What type of chaos? This, for example.) Non-linear dynamics teach us that in chaotic periods of transition from one stable state to another, seemingly small actions can tip the balance and have profound effects on the new stable state."

I myself wrote as a question to Laura's article: "Letters from the Edge" http://www.sott.net/articles/show/151082-Letters-From-the-Edge
"Survivability???? More On That . . .

From the above article, "AND, that it is eminently survivable IF you know what to look for and how to prepare!"

What I've picked up so far is that the formation of true community where people share perspective, information, knowledge and material resources such as pooled labor and the fruits of such (cash) is one of the main ways that persons can create the situation where they can survive such a cosmic disaster. Knowledge of what's really happening being another--which among other potential benefits, prevents paralyzing fear and panic--enabling persons to Think in real time as some thing happens. Therefore, sharing and spreading knowledge of what's really happening to encourage greater awareness and the formation of such community groups being another.

Would you please write an article/articles where you share other ideas/suggestions on how to survive such a possible/probable cosmic event as described?

Needless to say, we all need to help SOTT stay online for such an article to come out."

A person told me just today, "There are things worse than dying."

Edit P.S. I join Redfox in recommending the following article which is the best that I've read so far on the subject on survival in times of crisis : http://www.sott.net/articles/show/147683-Survival-in-Times-of-Uncertainty-Growing-Up-in-Russia-in-the-1990s

"No matter where you go, there you are."

Gurdjieff packed up and moved his group when it became clearly evident that they were in harm's way.

One can only assess their own situation and resources and make a choice, but I would suggest, if possible, getting away from densely populated urban centers.

The Cs said something about the US being the center of STS - the headquarters. That makes me want to leave, (even though I am STS too). Just on a practical level if I had a lot of money and could get out I would consider going to South America, New Zealand or Austrailia, and I would take as many like-minded people with me that wanted to go, (I realize that's just wishful thinking), I understand what most of you are saying about gathering knowledge first - knowledge protects. However, as long as I have a third density body I sometimes have to take third density steps to protect it, (or so it seems). Practical steps, I don't think I will be able to get out of the US but I may be able to join a network of people who are at least partially aware that we are basically milk-cows. People who are willing to pool resources and work together to deal with some of the most likely things that might occur: food and water shortages, monetary hyperinflation, fuel shortages, fallout, after-effects of cometary fragment showers, etc.

I would really like to keep my current physical vehicle alive as long as possible, mainly because I want to see what's going to happen in the next five to ten years from my current 3rd desity viewpoint, and maybe get a glimpse of 4th density, (but that's just where I am now personally). If I do die soon, I would rather it be the result of something I could not have avoided. I definitely DON'T want to be a victim of the PTB if I can avoid it at all - don't want to give them the satisfaction - (if that's not ego talking I don't know what is :) ). Leave or stay or do whatever. If a person has the wherewithall to act rather than react - more power to them.

Maybe the most important thing to remember is, like the Cs have said - it's not the body that counts, but the soul, (or at least the potential of developing one).

Great comments and good questions.

I did want to add a couple of things,

Rabelais one thing to keep in mind is that during the German occupation of Paris, Gurjieff stayed in the city, and even with quite some risk, continued to have meetings covertly. There is a book called Wartime Meetings that are the recollections of some of those meetings and gives us the opportunity to learn from those that like us, strived for some truth to this life, but also lived under a daily regimine of a constant fear based society. Not to mention the food shortages, informers under every rug and Nazi checkpoints littered throughout the city and strict curfews which shoot on site orders.

DippyDog's comment about the C's remark that America is the center of STS, I have always wondered about this as Gurdjieff had stated that America was also where the greatest potential for change could manifest. Or not and the energies of the West and East would create an imbalance that could cause great suffering.

I also thought that I would mention to Yossarian that one could look at it as freightening, but like Rabelais' signature statistic ran against the sessions, you could also do s search on "learning is fun" and see how this was a common response to something that was 'freightening' or generally displeasing to the survival of the 3D form.

Regards,
Ronald

Well I just wrote out a huge explaination which was all lost because of a PC glitch, so NOT too happy right now. I hate when that happens.

[[Frustrated]]

So just an abbreviated version now.

Lets just say different TYPES of people are going to make different choices!

ASTROLOGICAL TYPES comes into this a lot in my view. And I don't mean simple Sun sign astrology. You would need to be very well trained to understand all the ramifications of this. The Sun is highly mitigated by the Moon, Rising sign, Planets, Midpoints, Asteroids, and the Aspects they form, house cusps and planets in specific houses. In addition the Natal chart has to be further refined by Secondary Progressons, Tertiary Progressions, Transits and much, much more.

What this simply means is that different people are definitley going to choose differently according to their Natural Energtic, Astrological Inclinations. Martian types are inclined to Fight to the end and may willing and defiantly die in front of a fireing squad.

Others just are not subject to Change and will not be moved around by Anyone very
easily. Remember those who stubbornly refused to evacuate when Mt. Saint Helens erupted? They willingly died by ash and molten lava. Many considered them either very stupid or crazy, but this may have been a choice they never regretted. It's a Choice.

Still others are far more into adventuresomeness and will pick up and quickly leave when things move into a difficult Dark, Political climage that doesn't jive with them, to say the least...like Marshall Law. They're gone. Home is where they lay their head for the night. They may even love the nomadic, gypsy life style so don't necessarily feel all that inconvenienced.

It was noted that Gurdjeff stayed in occupied Paris and carried out his life even under those extreme conditions. That was his choice and as much of a role model as he may be considered, that may NOT be the best choice for You and the things you are supposed to learn.

TAI CHI STYLE....I say get out of their way.

How you do that, is going to vary greatly according to your astrological type and mind set, and the "specific lessons" you may still need to learn while finishing up your 3rd Density experience. If indeed this is your last time to go through a 3rd Density experience.

If you are in your 80's or 90's age wise, the way you may choose to "get out of their way" will probably be different than someone in the prime of life. Someone in their prime could choose to Physically get out of Dodge, leaving All behind to live in remote wilderness if need be, if they had some training to sustaining themselves there.

If someone has made a Genuine Choice based on Deep Inner Convictions, that's all that matters.

HONOR IT.

If it's different from yours so be it. I don't think there is a right or wrong here.

Rabelais said:

One can only assess their own situation and resources and make a choice, but I would suggest, if possible, getting away from densely populated urban centers.

Click to expand...

In an article about survival in Russia in the 1990's, the author was saying the exact opposite:

The limiting factor in the survival, on both the level of the individual and the community, was not the ability to produce your own products and not even the available resources or lack of them. It was transport and infrastructure - the ability to trade, deliver your surplus elsewhere and from there get other things you need.

This is why rural areas and small towns in Russia took a very hard hit in the 90s, and may never fully recover, as some say. One would think it should be exactly the opposite - people would have gone into the remote villages and live off the land and the woods. However, even in the most self-sufficient household one cannot produce or make everything needed. And being in a remote location makes it difficult to deliver surplus to others in a timely manner for trading or exchange, especially with the roads being as atrocious as they were (a problem endemic to Russia, but can be an important factor elsewhere as well). Plus, as the government budgets dry up, the collective farms go bust, the village school is closed, the general store (already empty) is closed; there is no library, no cars and no gas for them, no TV reception - in short, absolutely nothing to do other than to drink yourself into oblivion, making bad home-made vodka from your decaying surplus grain. The sense of community is gone, people flee like rats from a sinking ship. The "dachas", mentioned earlier were a different matter - they were clustered in suburbs and used by town dwellers and they were flourishing, but in the villages there are still many deserted houses to this day.

(Yossarian gave the link to the article in his post)

Mrs. Tigersoap said:

The limiting factor in the survival, on both the level of the individual and the community, was not the ability to produce your own products and not even the available resources or lack of them. It was transport and infrastructure - the ability to trade, deliver your surplus elsewhere and from there get other things you need.

Click to expand...

I think the chief limiting factor, enabling to survive, live and to some even to thrive, wasn’t neither transport, nor infrastructure (both of them being imperative, but not vital). I think what helped us to hold on at many levels was our capacity and proclivity to ‘togetherness’; to share resources, borrow/lend money without any percentage if you had for meals for a week ahead and your neighbor didn’t have resources to buy a milk for his kids for today. This ‘togetherness’ comes to us in stories of our ‘granmas’ and ‘granpas’ when we grow up; such stories nurture our instinctive nature to help and to share. Like I grew up with stories coming from my grandparents how they survived terrible hunger of 1920-ies as teenagers; then another one in 1930-ies. Then in late 1930-ies grandpa had been imprisoned for refusing to relay a false information on his work colleague to KGB. That info, if provided, could have easily become a death sentence for his colleague. Paradoxically enough, the onset of WWII, had permitted my grandpa to get out of prison, as he was a talented engineer and later he had been called to build several tank plants over in Siberia. Later, during 1946-1947 hunger, our family survived because one of neighbors/friends had been regularly giving to my granma potato and beet peels (don’t smile, that’s true). Food quote of an engineer was miserable. So, as you see this sharing and ‘togetherness’ comes naturally because of quite a bit of disasters Russia had been through in 20-th century. And the ‘survival’ in the 90-ies wasn’t a ‘survival’ in its proper sence; I refer to it rather as to a hardship; a walk through a desert in a way, when what has to die will die; essential preserved; and new strength born. US will learn its lesson too, if it has a will to survive under any circumstances.
You may want to read almost any of Solzenitsyn books as a vivid example / manual how to survive.

The way I interpreted the article on Russia in the 1990s is that you don't want to be TOO far from densely populated urban areas but you also wouldn't want to be right in the center of them either. Probably 40 to 100 miles away is good. Close enough to have markets and far enough to grow food and not be in the middle of total mayhem.

Mrs.Tigersoap said:

Rabelais said:

One can only assess their own situation and resources and make a choice, but I would suggest, if possible, getting away from densely populated urban centers.

Click to expand...

In an article about survival in Russia in the 1990's, the author was saying the exact opposite:

The limiting factor in the survival, on both the level of the individual and the community, was not the ability to produce your own products and not even the available resources or lack of them. It was transport and infrastructure - the ability to trade, deliver your surplus elsewhere and from there get other things you need.

This is why rural areas and small towns in Russia took a very hard hit in the 90s, and may never fully recover, as some say. One would think it should be exactly the opposite - people would have gone into the remote villages and live off the land and the woods. However, even in the most self-sufficient household one cannot produce or make everything needed. And being in a remote location makes it difficult to deliver surplus to others in a timely manner for trading or exchange, especially with the roads being as atrocious as they were (a problem endemic to Russia, but can be an important factor elsewhere as well). Plus, as the government budgets dry up, the collective farms go bust, the village school is closed, the general store (already empty) is closed; there is no library, no cars and no gas for them, no TV reception - in short, absolutely nothing to do other than to drink yourself into oblivion, making bad home-made vodka from your decaying surplus grain. The sense of community is gone, people flee like rats from a sinking ship. The "dachas", mentioned earlier were a different matter - they were clustered in suburbs and used by town dwellers and they were flourishing, but in the villages there are still many deserted houses to this day.

(Yossarian gave the link to the article in his post)

Click to expand...