Experiment with Fruitarian Diet as a healing Diet

odyssic said:
"In SV’s aura, the colors are very compact and close into her body. What does this indicate? A: Stomach problems. Q: (L) What could she do to alleviate her stomach problems? A: Change her diet “big time!” Q: (L) What is there about her diet… A: Starch and fats must be reduced steadily. [3] Q: (L) And what should she add? A: Fruit. Q: (L) Any particular kind? A: All."

Knight-Jadczyk, Laura (2015-08-20). The Cassiopaea Experiment Transcripts 1995 (Kindle Locations 8359-8360). Red Pill Press, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

I just stumbled upon this, and it aligns with most of my research and personal experiments.

Its important to remember that this was back in 1995. Although interestingly, this is exactly the same advice given by Dr Ray Peat, who seems to have a really deep understanding of human physiology, much more than any other researcher I have come across so far.

He doesn't advocate "fruitarianism" though. His understanding is that the human diet should consist of predominantly animal proteins, some saturated fat, and fruits. The stance against starch is mainly due to the production of endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide) via bacterial fermentation. His arguements against excess fats is that (due to the Randell Cycle) fat metabolism inhibits oxidative phosphorylation of glucose, and subsequently inhibits metabolism in the long run.

I would be interested in hearing what the C's have to say about it all, since they have also spoken about ketosis etc in more recent sessions.
 
Notice that the advice was to add SOME fruit to the diet for this person (who lived on junk food) and when asked what KIND of fruit, it was ALL as in "all kinds". In other words, just add some kind of fruit now and then.
 
My post is not about fruit consumption but suggestion that Ray Peat's approach to nutrition and human functioning deserves a separate thread. I am currently following his guidelines and it works. (Or I am just heavily misguided...) You just need to minimize your polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) consumption.

For example ...What I ate today to keep this goal? Coffe with sugar, 1 orange, 700ml of yoghurt (2%) with added sugar and vitamins (A,D,E,B1), 200 g of chicken breast, some beans, 1 raw carrot, 40g of dried elk meat, 500 ml of orange juice (not from concentrate, with pulp), and I will eat 500g of potatoes for the dinner and one organic milk product (if i manage to do some kettlebell work) with sugar, that has terrible saturation - 100g contains 10g of fat of which 9,3g is saturated (!).

I did also well in a low carb diet. But I had a pulse of 40 something, years ago (doctor asked ... am I endurance athlete, which I am not). I was feeling also cold all the time. I don't sit usually with T-shirt behind the computer, like I do now; and outside is 1 degree of Celsius. My pulse was 75 by hand measure, minutes ago. It implies fastened metabolism due to low PUFA consumtion and high carbohydrate consumption. I lift some some weights, so I need that protein also. I am not taking any special supplements besides vitamins C, B-complex and D. Currently just MSM.

If somebody has cracks in his/her keto-egg, they may try out the opposite and learn further.

:)
 
LeGreen said:
My post is not about fruit consumption but suggestion that Ray Peat's approach to nutrition and human functioning deserves a separate thread. I am currently following his guidelines and it works. (Or I am just heavily misguided...) You just need to minimize your polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) consumption.<snip>

If somebody has cracks in his/her keto-egg, they may try out the opposite and learn further.

:)

I tend to agree based on observations and recent discussions. Each person needs to experiment with what combination makes them feel and function best. For some, it is keto, others modified keto, others paleo, others more carbs. And there are many other factors in play including season and genetics and environment.
 
Keyhole said:
odyssic said:
"In SV’s aura, the colors are very compact and close into her body. What does this indicate? A: Stomach problems. Q: (L) What could she do to alleviate her stomach problems? A: Change her diet “big time!” Q: (L) What is there about her diet… A: Starch and fats must be reduced steadily. [3] Q: (L) And what should she add? A: Fruit. Q: (L) Any particular kind? A: All."

Knight-Jadczyk, Laura (2015-08-20). The Cassiopaea Experiment Transcripts 1995 (Kindle Locations 8359-8360). Red Pill Press, Inc.. Kindle Edition.

I just stumbled upon this, and it aligns with most of my research and personal experiments.

Its important to remember that this was back in 1995. Although interestingly, this is exactly the same advice given by Dr Ray Peat, who seems to have a really deep understanding of human physiology, much more than any other researcher I have come across so far.

He doesn't advocate "fruitarianism" though. His understanding is that the human diet should consist of predominantly animal proteins, some saturated fat, and fruits. The stance against starch is mainly due to the production of endotoxin (lipopolysaccharide) via bacterial fermentation. His arguements against excess fats is that (due to the Randell Cycle) fat metabolism inhibits oxidative phosphorylation of glucose, and subsequently inhibits metabolism in the long run.

I would be interested in hearing what the C's have to say about it all, since they have also spoken about ketosis etc in more recent sessions.

I'd be interested in hearing what the C's would have to say as well.

I did look up Dr. Ray Peat. His theories appear to be interesting and original, and, of course, the opposite of some of what I've read elsewhere. For instance, he advises avoiding avocados, due to saturated fat ratio; the Medical Medium in his newer book Life Changing Food, advises eating them as a staple, as they are supposedly the plant most similar to human breast milk. Dr Peat advises one carrot per day. Dr. Sebi (another herbalist / nutritionist who seems to have supported people in curing 'incurable' conditions, including AIDS) advises to avoid them, because... "Allegedly they are orange for entirely political reasons: in the 17th century, Dutch growers are thought to have cultivated orange carrots as a tribute to William of Orange – who led the the struggle for Dutch independence – and the color stuck. A thousand years of yellow, white and purple carrot history, was wiped out in a generation. Although some scholars doubt if orange carrots even existed prior to the 16th century, they now form the basis of most commercial cultivators around the world. Presumably crosses between Eastern (purple), Western (white, red) and perhaps wild carrots led to the formation of the orange rooted carrot sub species. Turkey is often cited as the original birthplace of the hybrids (or mutations) of the two groups." I've read that before then, they were of a small medicinal variety. Sebi believed in eating only 'ancient' foods, including fruits, berries, herbs, and grains, wherever possible. I agree that starch potentially creates issues with fermentation, which doesn't explain why most of the longest lived cultures on record consume(d) starch as their staple.

And finally, many of the successful healers I've researched (Gerson, Kemper, Morse, Sebi, Ehret, Wigmore and Clement of Hippocrates Institute) advocate (or advocated) the reduction (or elimination) of animal (and even 'complete' proteins during times of healing, for ease of digestive processing, and strengthening of the kidneys. Though in the case of meat consumption, I think Peat's admonition to eat gelatin with the muscle fiber makes sense.

PS. And why would it matter that it is from 1995? Do you mean, regarding accuracy?

Laura said:
Notice that the advice was to add SOME fruit to the diet for this person (who lived on junk food) and when asked what KIND of fruit, it was ALL as in "all kinds". In other words, just add some kind of fruit now and then.

"Q: (L) What could she do to alleviate her stomach problems? A: Change her diet “big time!” Q: (L) What is there about her diet… A: Starch and fats must be reduced steadily. [3] Q: (L) And what should she add? A: Fruit. Q: (L) Any particular kind? A: All."

I can see that reading. I was interpreting this differently, which I think is one of the powerful (and sometimes frustrating) attributes of the C's (and what makes this 'networking' useful). In my reading, "big time" implies a huge shift. Adding some kind of fruit now and again would seem like a minimal shift. Presumably, most of her calories were coming from starch and fats, so if they were reduced 'steadily,' while fruit was added, that would have been a lot of calories from fruit to replace the calories from the other sources. For instance, if she had to replace 1500 calories from starch and fat with fruit, that would be 15 bananas or equivalent (like 23 oranges). And that would heal the stomach. I think if she ate only fruit for a duration, she would have healed the stomach faster, I intuit that advice would have seemed to extreme to her (not trusting fully the source), and would not have been followed at all. I think just adding some fruit now and again with starch and fat would create fermentation challenges. I found it interesting that they didn't mention protein in that passage.

LeGreen said:
My post is not about fruit consumption but suggestion that Ray Peat's approach to nutrition and human functioning deserves a separate thread. I am currently following his guidelines and it works. (Or I am just heavily misguided...) You just need to minimize your polyunsaturated fat (PUFA) consumption.

I agree that we all need to find our balance, not only for our bodies, but also for what we are trying to achieve. For instance, when you say 'it works', I interpret that to mean that you feel good on it, and have adequate energy, and some healing happens?

I am looking for (and studying) diets that support rapid healing, preferably across contexts. So for someone who was trying to heal cancer without medical intervention, for instance, it may not 'work'. I think that just about everything can be healed within a few years, and if you are moving toward that healing, and becoming symptom free, it is working. I think this is critical now (this focus on healing) because many are struggling with pain and poor health due to past choices and misinformation.

Thank you for the information and the inspiration to research further.
 
I have been interested in the brain development theories around fruit eating.

There is a new study that could be interesting:

"Primate brains may have grown larger and more complex thanks to a fruit-filled diet, a new study suggests.

The researchers analyzed the brain sizes and diets of over 140 primate species spanning apes, monkeys, lemurs and lorises and found that those who munched on fruit instead of leaves had 25 percent more brain tissue, even when controlling for body size and species relatedness."

Here is an overview:

http://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2017/03/27/521423216/what-gave-some-primates-bigger-brains-a-fruit-filled-diet

The study:

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41559-017-0112
 
The overview says:

Monkeys and apes who incorporated animal proteins into their diets also had slightly larger brains than the leaf eaters, the Nature Ecology and Evolution study found.

Reminds of this study quoted earlier on this thread:

Possible Fruit Protein Effects on Primate Communities in Madagascar and the Neotropics tells us:

The ecological factors contributing to the evolution of tropical vertebrate communities are still poorly understood. Primate communities of the tropical Americas have fewer folivorous but more frugivorous genera than tropical regions of the Old World and especially many more frugivorous genera than Madagascar. ...Neotropical fruits have higher protein concentrations than fruits from Madagascar and that the higher representation of frugivorous genera in the Neotropics is linked to high protein concentrations in fruits. Low fruit protein concentrations in Madagascar would restrict the evolution of frugivores in Malagasy communities.
 
Only anectodal, but can you imagine a couple of 60+ years old New-Zealanders (living in Australia) running a marathon a day for an entire year, without any day of rest around Australia (15800 km) ? Eating only raw vegan diet (fruits & vegs) ! (And setting a world record by the way.) :shock:
_http://rawveganpath.com/about-us/

(Another fruitarian ultra-marathon runner : Michael Arnstein
_http://www.thefruitarian.com/ )
 
A preliminary remark : most people, in European/northern-American area, are biased while thinking/speaking of fruits, by :
- the cooked diet/cooking culture
- their location (in temperate Europe/North America, if no experience of the richness of tropical areas)

This topic is about a fruit-based diet. But what's a fruit ? There is at least two different definition, the common one (from cookery/cuisine), and the botanical one.

The common definition :
Wiktionary (Eng.) said:
2. Any sweet, edible part of a plant that resembles seed-bearing fruit, even if it does not develop from a floral ovary; also used in a technically imprecise sense for some sweet or sweetish vegetables, such as rhubarb, that resemble a true fruit or are used in cookery as if they were a fruit.
(So the common definition includes things which are not real fruits, and excludes those which are not sweet nor fatty.)

The botanical definition :
Wiktionary (Eng.) said:
(botany) The seed-bearing part of a plant, often edible, colourful/colorful and fragrant, produced from a floral ovary after fertilization.
While cucumber is technically a fruit, one would not usually use it to make jam.

This (strict) definition excludes other parts of a vegetable (like stems/leaves), even seeds themselves - so nuts are not fruits, but seeds...



Among fruits :
- most are sweet (and often acid too)
: those well-known in temperate climates (apples, pears, plums, cherries, apricots, peaches, figs, kakis, melons, citrus fruits, the so many berries, etc.) plus (so many !) (sub)tropical ones (including bananas, mangos, papayas, anons, jackfruits, etc.).
Some of them are sweet but not acid (for instance, papayas, watermelons, some melons or bananas). A ripe orange is not (or just a little) acid !

- Some are fatty (and sometimes sweet too) : olives, avocados (many varieties/species), safus (African, fatty & proteic, tasting like cold meats/pizzas/cheeses), akis (Caribbean ?), durians (South-Eastern Asian, fatty AND sweet : 27% glucids, 5.5% lipids, 1.5% protids ; famous as the "king of the fruits", highly appreciated by local people AND fruitarian/raw-foodist Westerners), and many tropicals wild ones known only locally.

- Some are starchy : most of the squashes, including the pumpkins...

- Some of them are neither fatty/starchy nor (or only a little) sweet, and used as vegetables, like green (not-ripe) cucumbers and gherkins, courgettes, green (not-ripe) papayas or jackfruits, etc.

Among nuts and seeds :
- the (oily) nuts
: (temperate) walnuts, hazels nuts, almonds, pecans nuts, ... and (tropical) macadamia nuts, cashew nuts, kenari nuts, peanuts, etc.
- the (many) smaller oily seeds : sunflower, (flax) lin, sesame, squashes, etc.
- the starchy (not oily) nuts/seeds : chestnuts, acorns, beechnuts, etc. (plus chickpeas, corns, etc.)


So it's really a lot...


In a tropical climate, I'm sure it's possible to grow and live (and give birth/milk) eating only (raw) fruits, leaves and eggs/insects, either wild or domesticated. (In a temperate climate, it's probably possible too, but with more efforts.) Add a bit of seafood/seaweeds from time to time, and no essential nutrient is missing.
And I doubt anyone would "devolve" doing that (but if by "devolve" you mean to get close to nature !)...


A friend of mine (a European guy) lives in Peru, near the high Amazonian forest. There, according to him, one can find all-year round fatty or proteic fruits, and seasonaly sweet fruits. So a "natural" (wild-based) mainly frugivorous (+folivorous/insectivorous) diet in such an area would be a ketogenic diet most of the year, but not while the sweet fruits seasons.
 
Down the rabbit hole / deepening the fruit experiment

I've still been experimenting, and reading widely on the topic. Fascinating threads. Thank you for the thoughtful responses. Still much healing happening, and purging of mucus. I've found that the attempt to eat mostly fruit, for me, has lead to simply eating a lot less, and fasting more as well, so that has fallen into the purview of the research. Also, an associate had 'Grave's Disease' and that cleared up by eating 90% fruit, and he no longer tests positive for that.

A few pieces of research that I thought some of you might find interesting...

I've been reading Hilton Hotema, Floridian, who thought that humans were originally breatharian, and that the 'fall' had to do with the consumption of varying foodstuffs. He's an interesting philosopher, in my opinion, and some of his ideas correlate with what I've found on this forum and in other sources.

"So long as man must eat, the best food is fresh fruits, berries and melons. These contain fluid of the best and purest kind, distilled by natural processes."

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 2458-2459). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition. (1060's)

"The Vegetarian has grown vain in his conceit. He has discarded animal products and feels that he has found dietetic perfection in vegetables, grains, cereals, legumes and tubers. Scientific investigation and his own deficient physical and mental condition prove that he is no better off than his flesh-eating friends. Unbiased investigation shows that the modern Vegetarian is travelling the wrong trail. The things he eats are not natural products, nor the natural food of man. They are definitely artificial. 1. Grains and cereals have been developed from insignificant grass seeds. By long ages of seed selection, careful breeding, intensive cultivation and constant fertilization, small grass seeds were developed by this artificial process into the modern grains and cereals. 2. Beans, peas, lentils, cabbage, lettuce, celery, etc., were developed in the same way from the grass family. 3. Tubers, which include potatoes, onions, carrots, turnips, beets, radishes, etc., are nothing more than wild weed roots, developed by the artificial process above described. Years ago Knight, in his “Vegetable Food of Man, asserted that grains and cereals have been developed from insignificant grass seeds now unknown to botany. Dr. Emmet Densmore, in his “Natural Food of Man,” wrote: “Grains are the product of the temperate zone, not of those regions where there is no winter; and it was therefore a necessity of man’s sustenance when he was without agriculture, without tools, and without fire, and had to depend upon foods spontaneously produced by Nature, that he live in a region where foods were produced at all seasons of the year. This narrows or confines the inquiry of natural food to two articles— fruits and nuts” (P. 224).

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 2317-2319). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Interestingly, Hotema found that foods were non ideal in relation to the 'mineral ash' they left behind, which he refers to here as 'earthy matter.'

"Evans gives over twenty pages of tables of the analysis of foods, which show that fruits and nuts have the least proportion of earthy matter, as compared with their nourishing properties, of any of the foods now used by man. Next in order are animal foods, then come vegetables, and last are the pulses and cereals, which are shown to have the largest amount of earthy matter."

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 2444-2445). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

So note the progression, from ideal food to most harmful...

1. Fruits and nuts
2. Animal Foods (meats and unpasteurized milk)
3. Vegetables
3. Pulses and cereals

So moving up in the tiers would promote healing, and it does seem to. And fasting, or even dry fasting, seems to produce the most dramatic healing. So that all aligns in some sense.

Johnny Lovewisdom wrote an interesting book circa 1998, from his mountain hermitage, The Ascensional Science of Spiritualizing Fruitarian Dietetics, after experimenting with fruitarianism, etc, for most of his life it seems. The book is full of religious thinking, and also some scientific points of interest. For instance, there are referenced studies of radioactive fallout, strontium 90, in plant tissues, and these are highest in shallow rooted vegetables and grasses, and the animals that eat those grasses. He links those to many diseases and death, and says that the government stopped putting out those reports after the 70's.

"Why is it that Dairy Products, Grains and Leafy Vegetables contain the greatest amount of Strontium 90 Radioactive Fallout? They are all the products of Chlorophyll concentrations in food."

Lovewisdom, Dr. Johnny. The Ascensional Science of Fruitarian Dietetics (Kindle Locations 1549-1550). Paradisian publications. Kindle Edition.

Because fruit trees often have deep roots, they are mostly spared of this, which I suppose is contingent on country of origin.

"The Roy Hoopes Report on Fallout in Food gave these figures: U.S. 15.4, Germany 13.6, United Kingdom 9.8, Vietnam 8.3, Japan 7.8, Peru 2.8, and Ecuador 1.2 on the daily intake of Strontium 90 microcures."

Lovewisdom, Dr. Johnny. The Ascensional Science of Fruitarian Dietetics (Kindle Locations 1554-1556). Paradisian publications. Kindle Edition.

So it is possible that fruit eating heals by virtue of providing nourishment while avoiding certain poisons.

"Continuing the data given by Roy Hoopes as to Strontium 90 in food there is in Kale 74.7, Whole Wheat 56.2, String beans 43.2, Mustard Greens 40.0, Spinach 36.5, Turnip greens 32.0, Sweet potato 13.5, Cucumber 13.3 Turnip 10.6, Beets 10.3, Cabbage 7.1, Broccoli 5.3, Carrots 4.1, Radish 3.4, Celery 2.8, Cauliflower and Coconut 1.7, Potato 1.4, Lettuce 1.4, Peaches 1.1, Apples 1.0, Tomatoes 1.0. The reason fruits have the least is because their roots go deep into earth not contaminated, but the surface soil is concentrated with fallout as seen in wheat and dairy products, followed by kale and other leafy greens which have the most chlorophyll. Milk had the highest figures on Hoopes’ lists."

Lovewisdom, Dr. Johnny. The Ascensional Science of Fruitarian Dietetics (Kindle Locations 1561-1564). Paradisian publications. Kindle Edition.

Lovewisdom also goes into the 'earthy matter' for different foods, however he refers to it as:

"The calcium and mineral ash is .7%, .8% and .9% in cows, goats and sheep milk which is twice .45% human milk ash."

Lovewisdom, Dr. Johnny. The Ascensional Science of Fruitarian Dietetics (Kindle Location 662). Paradisian publications. Kindle Edition.

Longevity --- Fruits / Nuts

Dr. Marion Thrasher, in his book “Long Life in California,” stated that the Indians of southern California and Mexico, who subsisted on a simple diet of fruits, corn, acorns and vegetables, lived 120 to 150 years. He cited the case of “Old Gabriel,” who died of pneumonia in 1890 at the age of 150.

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 2799-2801). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

There are many stories like this. Arabs in the desert reaching 200 on dates and camel's milk. Etc.

Abkhasians often lived well over 100, sometimes to over 150, even into modern times (the 70's). In How to Live to Be 100, by Sula Benet, an anthropological study of the Abkhasians, I stumbled upon an interesting passage...

"Hippocrates reported that the people of the Caucasus lived on cherries, pine cones, apples, melons, and berries which grew wild in the woods. Even at that time the area was famous for longevity, and the Greeks may have sought dietary clues as to why these people attained such unusual ages. " Page 103.

“Among instances of longevity, we have the ancient Britons, who, according to Plutarch, ‘only begin to grow old at 210’. Their food consists almost exclusively of acorns, berries and water.”

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Location 1626). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

(Note: Very similar diets.)

This may be interesting as well, as I've read about this figure in some of Laura's books...

"According to Voltaire and Francis Bacon, there appeared in Court in the reign of Henry IV and Louis XIII a knight with every appearance of physical and mental perfection, who looked like a man of 40. His name was the Count of St. Germain, and he remembered all the events of history covering a period of 150 years before Of him Bacon wrote, “Whenever he was invited out to suppers and dinners, he touched nothing but fruits and only a very little of them and he sometimes fasted completely for several weeks.”

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 2818-2819). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

These are interesting, anecdotal stories, because when I was young, experimenting with a range of diets, people would often admonish me, saying 'what are you going to live on, nuts and berries!?' That was somehow the proof that the diet was impossible. However, the programming was deep against a diet that may have been in some ways ideal.

Hilton Hotema also writes much on longevity, mostly positioning it so that the long lived people ate simpler, and less.

"In 1943 Santiago Surviate, an Indian, died in Arizona at the age of 135. In 1936 Zora Agha, a Turk, died in Turkey at the age of 162. In 1921 Jose Calverio died in Mexico at the age of 185. In 1795 Thomas Carn died in England at the age of 207. In 1933 Li Chung-Yun died in China at the age of 2 56. In 1566 Numes De Cugna died in India at the age of 370. He grew four new sets of teeth and his hair turned from black to gray four times."

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 452-455). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

It also abounds with stories like this:

According to the press of May 27th, 1937, Srimati Bala, of Bankura, India, age 68 had taken no food nor water since she was 12. The account said “She is always gay and looks like a child.”

Hotema, Prof. Hilton. Man’s Higher Consciousness (Kindle Locations 544-545). Hauraki Publishing. Kindle Edition.

So eating lightly, fruits, and then juices, eventually leads to not eating, in his mind. And the purer a body is, the longer one can fast and draw nourishment from the air / sunlight / environment. These are theoretical, of course. E'asha, speaker for Keylontic Science, agrees that humans were originally breatharian, however if we try that now, we will 'burn out our quanta,' evidently a finite source of energy that requires living in alignment with the natural laws here.

Moving toward Full Purification / Immunity

I've still been purging, purging, wondering when the purging ends. Much mucus eliminated from the head, and I know it isn't from what I'm ingesting currently, because days of dry fasting cause it to proliferate even more. I eat cooked foods to slow it down sometimes, and some practitioners have devised brilliant systems for this. Otherwise, some can remain ill much of the time during the detoxification process.

Ehret, fruitarian, wrote of an end to his purging, which I think has inspired others...

"After a two-years' cure, in Italy, of Bright's disease with consumptive tendency, by fasting and strict living on a mucusless diet, I ate two pounds of the sweetest grapes and drank half a gallon of fresh, sweet grape juice, made from the best and most wonderful grapes grown there. Almost immediately I felt as though I were going to die! A terrible sensation overcame me, palpitation of the heart, extreme dizziness that forced me to lie down and I was seized with severe pains in the stomach and intestines. After ten minutes the great event occurred-a mucus foaming diarrhea and vomiting of grape juice mixed with acid-smelling mucus and then the greatest event of all! I felt so wonderfully well and strong that I at once performed the knee-bending and arm-stretching exercises 326 times consecutively. All obstructions had been removed!"

Ehret, Arnold (2012-05-07). Mucusless Diet Healing System (p. 192). Book Publishing Co. Kindle Edition.

And his story is inspiring as well because he claimed to have achieved some level of immunity against disease generally.

"It has been over a year since I published my experiences in the journal Vegetarian Observer, in which I described staying in a malaria-infested area of Italy with a former student of mine. With pulse rates between 42 and 52 we intentionally sought out malaria infested areas, sleeping outside and going on long, strenuous hikes.
I have offered my knowledge about absolute immunity against tropical fevers to all government offices of Europe and America dealing with foreign and colonial affairs. I maintain- and I am ready to prove - that I am immune to cholera and will not contract it even when I eat unripe fruit. Furthermore, everyone who lives according to my dietary rules will also acquire total immunity. It is my duty and moral obligation to inform everyone about these findings, based on empirical personal, scientific exploration, in order to help those people who seek strength and resist deterioration through disease." The Cause and Cure of Human Illness, Arnold Ehret.

That's it for the moment. Thank you.
 
odyssic,

I think the most important thing to remember here is context. Different diets suit different people, and this is probably based on one's environment, genetics etc. I personally know of a couple of vegans who appear to be doing quite well with their health, but at the same time I know others who's health is falling apart.

The problem here for me is that a diet like fruitarianism is so restrictive, and since I have some training in nutrition, this sticks out like a big red flag for me. Generally, if a diet is restrictive, it needs to be very well formulated to be achieving good micro nutrient levels. Honestly, this is hard to do. This is why there is such a thing as the "well-formulated ketogenic diet" instead of the standard "ketogenic diet", because typically a ketogenic/paleo diet is massively lacking in calcium and magnesium and a bunch of other things which need to be carefully calculated and tailored in individually. Likewise, vegan/fruitarianism is shocking for certain nutrients. You should go onto the "chronometer" website for a free trial to plug in your nutrient data and take a look at what the diet is lacking in. This can be an eye opening experience.

If you take a look at Dr Weston A Price's work, you will see that there were no traditional societies which completely omitted animal foods. Each one had some dairy, or eggs, or meat, or fish, or a mixture of all of them. A "traditional" diet based purely on fruit does not (as per my knowledge) exist anywhere on earth - or at least in any population-wide case that has been documented and verified.

There are personal accounts of this diet just like breatharianism, but ultimately these are just hearsay. Can anyone provide any hard data on the efficacy of a fruitarian diet long-term? I can't find ANYTHING on pubmed. On the other hand, there are plenty of studies showing how detrimental an essential amino acid deficiency can be, and I struggle to see how fruit can provide enough amino acids to fuel metabolism. Similarly, research demonstrating deficiencies in primarily animal-derived nutrients like choline + retinol + zinc + carnitine + CLA + menaquinone + etc can all be fatal. So we are in a situation where we have two choices : 1.act based on objective/semi-objective data and personal experience, or 2. act on anecdotal accounts of things happening a couple of centuries ago.
 
Keyhole said:
(...) You should go onto the "chronometer" website for a free trial to plug in your nutrient data and take a look at what the diet is lacking in. This can be an eye opening experience. (...)

Hey Keyhole, sorry to jump in! I was wondering if you meant this website/app? https://cronometer.com/ Or a different one?
 
I've been very interested in diet and nutrition for most of my life, trying many things. The first was the Macrobiotic diet which I still use to some degree, dividing foods into yin and yang. All fruits are considered very yin.

My keto diet fell apart to some degree a year ago as it became so limiting and now I'm looking at more changes built around that. Maybe adding in a bit of paleo. Keyhole, can you add links for "well-formulated ketogenic diet" ? I also will have a look at the website you mentioned, sounds fascinating. thanks
 
Adding another thought. Thanks odyssic for sharing your research and its good your seeing improvement in your health. Recently I've been looking into changes in my diet and the glaring discrepancy in different opinions on the subject really caught my attention. My conclusion is, take what I know works well for me and improve on that. We all have differences in genetic requirements for one, which has already been mentioned. A fruit fast sounds like it could be good but I'm prediabetic so not so good for me I'd say. My main point is, one says this is good, another says its not good. At some point I've thought in the past, there is NOTHING one can eat that doesn't have a problem and so living on sunshine and air is the way to go I guess, lol!

Knowing ones machine is the challenge and guide

Perhaps adding some dairy to the keto diet would be a good idea. A good yogurt a few times a week and I still eat cheese in moderation. :huh: I'm probably in the wrong thread now...
 
Ant22 said:
Keyhole said:
(...) You should go onto the "chronometer" website for a free trial to plug in your nutrient data and take a look at what the diet is lacking in. This can be an eye opening experience. (...)

Hey Keyhole, sorry to jump in! I was wondering if you meant this website/app? https://cronometer.com/ Or a different one?
Yep, sorry it was not "chronometer" but actually cronometer, the website you linked to. You basically input your diet with approximate weights of different foods, and it will provide you with data about the nutrient status of the diet. With a paleo diet with no dairy products, it is really difficult to meet calcium requirements. Even magnesium requirements was difficult for me.

The only way that I could hit all of the nutrients was by factoring in beef liver, a LOT of kale (mostly for calcium and magnesium), and egg yolks. Those were the single three most nutritious foods in my diet, so they are the ones I try to maximise.

SummerLite said:
Keyhole, can you add links for "well-formulated ketogenic diet" ? I also will have a look at the website you mentioned, sounds fascinating. thanks
I can't provide a link for that, because I am not familiar with any material which explains what that term actually means. It is a phrase which is used by advocates of ketogenic/paleo type diets like Nora Gedgaudas. From what I understand, the difference between traditional ketogenic diets and "well-formulated ketogenic diets" is that of variation and nutrient density. A medically therapeutic ketogenic diet, traditionally used to support childhood epilepsy, is typically very low in protein, contains dairy and some other things, is very high in fat, and does not necessarily include much variation. The protein and fat ratios are designed to maximise ketone production and utilisation at physiological levels.

On the other hand, "well-formulated ketogenic diets" are designed to be applicable in a wider variety of contexts and for the average person who does not suffer from fatal forms of epilepsy. It is problematic for many people to go on a ketogenic diet because they unknowingly become nutrient deficient due to a overly-limited variation in their food. So "well-formulated" is a diet which takes into consideration this problem and compensates by incorporating certain types of foods to meet the deficit.

For example, a person on a normal diet may eat oranges, carrots, sweet potato, mango, and squash. These foods contain beta-carotene, a precursor of vitamin A.

When that person switches to a ketogenic diet consisting of meat, fat, and some green veggies, they no longer consume as much of the beta-carotene containing foods, which means that they may need to compensate by eating more vitamin A containing animal foods such as liver.

Similarly, many foods in a standard diet are fortified with vitamin D, calcium, B vitamins, iodine, and other nutrients. When people remove processed foods and go on a ketogenic diet, it can be difficult to get sufficient amounts of these without eating lots of organ meat, shellfish, egg yolks and a variety of vegetables. So a well formulated ketogenic diet would take this into consideration. As a practitioner, based on your symptoms, I would also make an informed guess as to what nutrients are specifically lacking and aim to increase those through food intake aswell. So, all in all, going keto can do someone some damage if they don't know what to look out for and if they don't know what nutrients they are low on.
 
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