Author Topic: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in  (Read 523 times)

Offline Emma

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Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« on: January 07, 2017, 11:47:22 AM »
 Interesting interview with Russian Neuroscientist, Tatyana Chernigovskaya
journalist, Sophie Shevarnadze on RT.

Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in – leading neuroscientist talks about how the brain works, correlates with
cognitive science and shares her experience and thoughts on spiritual questions also.
Enjoy!

https://www.rt.com/shows/sophieco/372802-mind-theory-brain-work/
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Offline zak

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #1 on: January 07, 2017, 01:49:32 PM »
Pretty  interesting Questions/Answers, that have some echoes with some threads.
Thank you Emma for your sharing.

Quote
TC: (...)  But we can’t blow this out of proportion to the point where we ask “Do we have to be responsible for anything at all?”

SS: And let’s talk about genetics in general – our genes determine a lot of things in our lives. So what has more power over us – our mind or our genes?

TC: Genes, unfortunately...

SS: Our brain or our genes?

TC: ... In much wisdom is much grief, but that is the kind of knowledge you should have. I personally think that it wouldn’t hurt if each person had their genetic and genealogical profile to know who their ancestors were, what they did, what kind of diseases run in the family.
Quote
TC: (...) The danger is that they don’t see the difference between the real world and virtual world.

SS: But how is this any different from, say, my childhood? I was engrossed in books and believed in imaginary characters – I loved some of them, hated others, talked to them all the time. That’s also a parallel world, how is it different from the virtual one?

TC:You’re asking very good questions. I’ve been thinking about it myself. Since the very beginning humanity has been living in imaginary worlds. I mean what is music? What are fairy tales? What are they? What are plays? What is cinema, what are films that make us cry and lose sleep?You asked a serious and dangerous question. Sure, the tendency has always been there, but here’s what I think is different – when I go to see a movie, I know I’m in the cinema. When I exit, I know it’s a different world out there. When I go to see a play, I’m in a theatre. I leave, I go home, and I have some tea. See what I mean? There was a distinct line between one world and the other. But now, ever since this nightmare started... I think Pokémon Go is mind-blowing for everyone, because virtual Pokémons pretty much appear in the real world.

There was this incident in the Hermitage Museum recently - a woman went to the police, claiming she’d been raped by a Pokémon in St George’s Hall. You see, they are in our world now, and people will be confused – what’s real and what’s not? One world is overlapping the other.
It must be patient with both hands, without weaken
and courageously wait, and wait, and still work,
the eyes screwed to the invisible, intimately, so that Hope cries and tears, flowing over the flesh,
 it gently sculpts the serene face of the man who loves.

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Offline solarmind

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 02:16:56 PM »
thank you for sharing the article ... reading it made me think in this direction that I would like to share with you:

Thinking about that our brain works out of our conscious control is nothing new, and actually it is a significant pointer that Man is already a Machine, what is the essence of understanding of our complexity as a living creatures on earth ... 

... and reading Gurdjieff, Castaneda, Tesla, among other readings and researching about AI and warnings of possible AI "power" on it's own ... what comes to my mind is that actually if WE ARE ALREADY AI - a organic creatures that got "installed" "predator's mind" 300 000 years ago, in a harvest of higher density "inteligentia", that wanted to experience life on earth in organic physical embodiment, with STS and entropy tendencies as a main "social" paradigm ... so if that is the objective truth that is going on at this planet right now,  if we came to the point to understand the world to be already populated with super sophisticated AI, in that case development of our own AI versions, can actually bring us prospect in better understanding of human subconscious reactions, and in that case can probably lead to better understanding of the fact that 99% of people on earth are not in control of them self, so they can't really be in control of anything else, including their computers, cars, phones etc ... and in that case we don't have to be more scared of human AI constructs, than of other people around us, who are just more perfect cosmic  AI, that has already integrated reactive "software", so refine towards understanding of our week points, that can trigger the worst situation in our life better than any known human created AI so far ... In contrary we can at least control "impute" we gave ot AI, and form there we can at least predict how that particular AI can develop on it's own, what we can't do even with ourselves or our children in real life ...

Hyper technologisation is not good if it is not in service to those who "invented" it, so the question is do we as humans controlling at all this hyper technological development, or are we just a executors of already controlled plan ?!?... From this perspective, it can be also observed as a final test for humanity to distinguish those who are already STS AI constructs without a "soul" organ", from those who can re-develop to another social paradigm of life on earth that can be more creatively and STO oriented ... and if we are observing a new harvest than that can help us to understand who will be harvested and how ....

How that can influence humanity in general, we will see this time, but so far we can already  see positive outputs of internet and many of AI technologies for better understanding of our already "hacked" brains and "personalities" ... at least I can see that on my own experiences ... and how understanding of my owner "personality" as a socially installed software within my subconsciousness, helping me better to recognize those artificial emotional and intellectual processes in my own mind and body that are implanted in me without my conscious will or effort ... and just that understanding gives me will and desire to sit and observe more from that perspective, and that self - observing process giving the magnificent results in my cognitive processes and new point of view I have to the whole world ... and since that changes are not reversible and are so organic, I am changing my social behaviors too, what than affects people in my sourounding to participate some how in that change too, what can probably than trigger them to seek and look for more ....

just my few cents on a hot topics of AI those days ... 
“If art is to nourish the roots of our culture, society must set the artist free to follow his vision wherever it takes him. We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a form of truth.” - JFK

 'Things come not to those positively oriented but through such beings.' - Ra

"In order to help others one must first learn to be one egoist, a conscious egoist." - Gurdjieff

"The function of art and of the artist is to intervene and to assist in the process of conscious evolution." - Gurdjieff

"Mind melding is possible for those who love." - C's

Offline solarmind

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 02:23:53 PM »
. You see, they are in our world now, and people will be confused – what’s real and what’s not? One world is overlapping the other.
[/quote]

Don't we already live in a virtual matrix world that we have been told that is our reality, but actually more we research around more we can see and know that what is told to us to be real is not more real than what is labeled as virtual ... in general I think that this so called "virtual" digital world is helping us to understand how what is labeled as real world, is just a small box of possible realities, that are already sourounding us without our knowledge of that ....

And so if we compare this life now that is loosing the borderline between what we are convinced is real and what we are labeling as virtual, we can see that our emotional life is more dependent on all what is labeled as virtual, so in that case, we can came to the point to seek the reason for that, and in that seeking we might come to all this hidden knowledge that is actually analyzing all this already since ever ...
“If art is to nourish the roots of our culture, society must set the artist free to follow his vision wherever it takes him. We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a form of truth.” - JFK

 'Things come not to those positively oriented but through such beings.' - Ra

"In order to help others one must first learn to be one egoist, a conscious egoist." - Gurdjieff

"The function of art and of the artist is to intervene and to assist in the process of conscious evolution." - Gurdjieff

"Mind melding is possible for those who love." - C's

Offline Felipe4

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 03:26:38 PM »
So i was having a conversation with someone the other day about conscious and subconscious as a physical thing, it was interesting that we both ended up with the genes at the very bottom and the top our "walking consciousness".

But to Me there are layers on the being and everything that happens in a person is Multi-causal and Multi-casual in an intertwined relationship.

Thank you for sharing Emma!
“Awakening is possible only for those who seek it and want it, for those who are ready to struggle with themselves and work on themselves for a very long time and very persistently in order to attain it.”
― G.I. Gurdjieff

Offline Guille

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 02:48:40 AM »
Hyper technologisation is not good if it is not in service to those who "invented" it, so the question is do we as humans controlling at all this hyper technological development, or are we just a executors of already controlled plan ?!?... From this perspective, it can be also observed as a final test for humanity to distinguish those who are already STS AI constructs without a "soul" organ", from those who can re-develop to another social paradigm of life on earth that can be more creatively and STO oriented ... and if we are observing a new harvest than that can help us to understand who will be harvested and how ....

This reminds me of the C's remark from the session on August 9th, 1997:
Quote
  A: Even if speed of light travel, or "faster," were not possible, and it is, of course, there is no reason why an alien race could not construct a space "ark," living for many generations on it.  They could travel great distances through time and space, looking for a suitable world for conquest.  Upon finding such, they could then install this ark in a distant orbit, build bases upon various solid planes in that solar system, and proceed to patiently manipulate the chosen civilizations to develop a suitable technological infrastructure.  And then, after the instituting of a long, slow, and grand mind programming project, simply step in and take it over once the situation was suitable.



Thanks for sharing Emma! This reminds me of a neuroscience version of Strangers to Ourselves. :)
"The penetrating brilliance of swords
Wielded by the followers of the Way
Strikes at the evil enemy
Lurking deep within
Their own souls and bodies."
-Morihei Ueshiba, The Art of Peace

Offline solarmind

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 10:08:24 PM »
Hyper technologisation is not good if it is not in service to those who "invented" it, so the question is do we as humans controlling at all this hyper technological development, or are we just a executors of already controlled plan ?!?... From this perspective, it can be also observed as a final test for humanity to distinguish those who are already STS AI constructs without a "soul" organ", from those who can re-develop to another social paradigm of life on earth that can be more creatively and STO oriented ... and if we are observing a new harvest than that can help us to understand who will be harvested and how ....

This reminds me of the C's remark from the session on August 9th, 1997:
Quote
  A: Even if speed of light travel, or "faster," were not possible, and it is, of course, there is no reason why an alien race could not construct a space "ark," living for many generations on it.  They could travel great distances through time and space, looking for a suitable world for conquest.  Upon finding such, they could then install this ark in a distant orbit, build bases upon various solid planes in that solar system, and proceed to patiently manipulate the chosen civilizations to develop a suitable technological infrastructure.  And then, after the instituting of a long, slow, and grand mind programming project, simply step in and take it over once the situation was suitable.
thank you very much Guille for your remark :) ... indeed ... and now that puts on my mind again a same question ... so I will re-read the session ...
“If art is to nourish the roots of our culture, society must set the artist free to follow his vision wherever it takes him. We must never forget that art is not a form of propaganda; it is a form of truth.” - JFK

 'Things come not to those positively oriented but through such beings.' - Ra

"In order to help others one must first learn to be one egoist, a conscious egoist." - Gurdjieff

"The function of art and of the artist is to intervene and to assist in the process of conscious evolution." - Gurdjieff

"Mind melding is possible for those who love." - C's

Offline Ant22

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Re: Brain makes decisions before consciousness steps in
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2017, 10:37:44 PM »
Interesting stuff, thank you for posting this Emma!

This reminds me of a neuroscience version of Strangers to Ourselves. :)

My thoughts precisely :) I started reading Strangers to Ourselves about a week ago as a result of having recently identified a pretty nasty pattern of my own behaviour - which is basically resorting to a “fight response” when it’s absolutely not necessary :) I’m only half way through it and it will probably take me until the end of the week to finish it but I really wish I'd read the book ages ago!

Quote
SS:  But I'm still trying to understand - since we exist, there has to be a purpose?

TC: Of course there is! We just don’t know what it is.

Well…maybe reading through some of Laura’s work would give them some ideas :)

Quote
SS:  And yet I’m trying to understand what it could be. That is, if it is as you say - that one of our brain’s main functions is to stay alert in order to survive and adapt - maybe it explains why we have such a hard time staying happy all the time, wouldn’t you agree? Because we spend most of our time self-reflecting, looking for possible threats or risks, living like we could be attacked by something or someone at any time. Yet, at the same time, when I observe children – they don’t seem to be burdened by it as much, because they are probably only beginning to adapt. So it’s easier for them to be happy, as they are not burdened with all this stuff yet – what do you think?

TC: You are absolutely right, and I agree with everything you just said. But I would still add one proverbial drop of poison into this lovely tun of wine. It’s not so simple with children either; they can fly off the handle for no apparent reason, too. Say we observe a child who is indeed happy and content, and the next moment you know he or she goes completely out of control and throws a tantrum. Why is that? Because his or her biochemistry changed. You see? Roughly speaking, an unexpected surge of serotonin or an unexpected surge of dopamine. It’s like the riddle of what came first, the chicken or the egg, which I like so much. Am I happy because I have enough serotonin – speaking hypothetically – or do have enough serotonin because I’m alright? We don’t really know who or what sets the tune here.


The bolded part caught my attention here and I'd really like to look into it a bit more. If anyone already has any links to information or sources on the causes of these “unexpected surges” I’d be totally grateful if you could share :)


Quote
TC: ... In much wisdom is much grief, but that is the kind of knowledge you should have. I personally think that it wouldn’t hurt if each person had their genetic and genealogical profile to know who their ancestors were, what they did, what kind of diseases run in the family.

Shortly after reading through the interview I came across this video on Facebook about people getting their DNA tested to discover where their ancestors' genes come from. They are surprised to discover that the countries and nationalities they dislike are a part of their own ancestry too.

_https://www.facebook.com/viralthread/videos/641308189375201/

And then I found this website that offers ancestry DNA testing: _https://www.ancestry.co.uk/dna/ I must say it is quite tempting.