H&W Show: High Intensity Training with Drew Baye

There was a question of how to avoid extreme, "debilitating muscle pain" after strenuous exercise:

On that 'notorious next day': I noticed that if I keep strictly to the ketogenic diet minimizing veggie carbs and maximizing fat + broth intake those strong muscle pains and debilitating results of "aching all over in the body" remain unnoticeable. Recovery is painless and quick.

If during the days following the exercise I eat chocolate maximizing my carbs, spiking my blood sugar, 'eat the remaining cakes', having lots of veggie carbs I get intense immobilizing muscle pain, aching all over, everything hurts, get "injured tendons sensations", feeling of "whole-body joint and connective tissue hardening" can't bend too much - hips, torso, knee, shoulder, etc.. pain -, can barely move, recovery is twice as long or can take six days.

So I think the cause of mishandled, difficult and highly painful recovery could be carbs.

Also when eating after exercise and on the next day I instinctively put a little more meat onto my plate, because of a gut feeling that my body needs it for recovery. Little meat, probably well below the recommended keto limit. When the Predator makes me put more meat on the plate and nearing finished up, I immediately notice that I've gone 'beyond a limit' and jut put the rest of the meat back into the fridge.

Fasted exercise:

I was under the impression that hunger was common in old times. People were used to hunger and starvation, because today's large amounts of foods were simply non-existent, non-accessible except maybe for the nobility.

Hunter gatherers could find themselves in the middle of a famine all of a sudden for various reasons [animal migrations, depleted fauna] and go hunt - do strenuous exercise - on empty stomach for days after days. For if they didn't do "fasted exercise " - hunt for their lives and their family - every day until game was found, they simply died of starvation. Primary Reality, as Laura said.

Also consider how good you feel even after one day of water fasting. Then try to do an exercise on thick, wet, mown [at least 2 inch high] grass, barefoot, some jogging and sprinting, receiving a foot massage from nature, resetting your 'gut nervous system' and in sunshine, blinking into the sun for half seconds to complete the electrical "sun-->human-->barefoot on wet ground" grounding circuit.

Your thread mention HandW Show, do you have a link to it ?

I'm currently sipping a hot salted water that seemed to be feel excellent for connecting the cicuitry.

I'm thinking about asking Drew about the following: I get the concept of HIT (high intensity training); you exercise targeted areas of the body hard enough to trigger an adaptation response. The muscles get larger, the body stronger. He mentions consistency as well which I know from previous experience is important. So putting that together it sounds like one would literally be in recovery mode pretty much all the time. That doesn't sound ideal. Maybe what Lilies said about staying in ketosis would make that livable? I'm interested in getting Drew's perspective on that. Anyone here have any comments about it?

Nico said:

Your thread mention HandW Show, do you have a link to it ?

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Here is the link for the show:

https://www.sott.net/article/353882-The-Health-Wellness-Show-High-Intensity-Training-with-Drew-Baye

Nico said:

Your thread mention HandW Show, do you have a link to it ?

Click to expand...

You can also find all the shows here:

https://radio.sott.net/

genero81 said:

I'm thinking about asking Drew about the following: I get the concept of HIT (high intensity training); you exercise targeted areas of the body hard enough to trigger an adaptation response. The muscles get larger, the body stronger. He mentions consistency as well which I know from previous experience is important. So putting that together it sounds like one would literally be in recovery mode pretty much all the time. That doesn't sound ideal. Maybe what Lilies said about staying in ketosis would make that livable? I'm interested in getting Drew's perspective on that. Anyone here have any comments about it?

Click to expand...

From what I gathered from the interview, exercise itself doesn't produce muscle growth. During intense exercise, you create micro-tears in the muscle fibers. During the rest days, and importantly while you sleep, your muscles repair and grow. This constant growth and repair is what keeps the muscles and your body in good condition. This, in turn, slows down the aging process.

Now he does make the point that physical activity like jogging, cycling and swimming for example, are not really exercise but the intense exercise helps improve your performance of those physical activities. So you are resting from intense exercise.

I have been following Drew's exercise routine for almost two years now. I occasionally get minor muscle soreness if I push extra hard. But that soreness doesn't prevent me from doing normal physical activity. At my age of 58, I can keep up with guys half my age in a good game of basketball! It does seem the ketogenic diet plus plenty of sleep really helps in recovery.

As the old adage says: If you don't use it, you will lose it. It takes a bit of suffering to learn and grow. The intense exercise seems to help your body to renew and stay healthy.

Hope that helps.

Fascinating technique, and such a non-PC host! :P

I was wondering if someone can point out to a good guide for properly performing the forms? Perhaps they are defined in Baye's ebooks? I am willing to give this one a try.

Navigator said:

Fascinating technique, and such a non-PC host! :P

I was wondering if someone can point out to a good guide for properly performing the forms? Perhaps they are defined in Baye's ebooks? I am willing to give this one a try.

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He has a YouTube channel where he talks about the routines and has demonstrations: https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=drew+baye

lilies said:

There was a question of how to avoid extreme, "debilitating muscle pain" after strenuous exercise:

On that 'notorious next day': I noticed that if I keep strictly to the ketogenic diet minimizing veggie carbs and maximizing fat + broth intake those strong muscle pains and debilitating results of "aching all over in the body" remain unnoticeable. Recovery is painless and quick.

If during the days following the exercise I eat chocolate maximizing my carbs, spiking my blood sugar, 'eat the remaining cakes', having lots of veggie carbs I get intense immobilizing muscle pain, aching all over, everything hurts, get "injured tendons sensations", feeling of "whole-body joint and connective tissue hardening" can't bend too much - hips, torso, knee, shoulder, etc.. pain -, can barely move, recovery is twice as long or can take six days.

So I think the cause of mishandled, difficult and highly painful recovery could be carbs.

Click to expand...

This has been my experience too. Being keto adapted, or even intermittent fasting for a time, makes muscle recovery much quicker.

Drew mentioned that he'd keep an eye on the show link to help answer any questions posted, so you can always post your questions in the comments there :)

Nicolas said:

genero81 said:

I'm thinking about asking Drew about the following: I get the concept of HIT (high intensity training); you exercise targeted areas of the body hard enough to trigger an adaptation response. The muscles get larger, the body stronger. He mentions consistency as well which I know from previous experience is important. So putting that together it sounds like one would literally be in recovery mode pretty much all the time. That doesn't sound ideal. Maybe what Lilies said about staying in ketosis would make that livable? I'm interested in getting Drew's perspective on that. Anyone here have any comments about it?

Click to expand...

From what I gathered from the interview, exercise itself doesn't produce muscle growth. During intense exercise, you create micro-tears in the muscle fibers. During the rest days, and importantly while you sleep, your muscles repair and grow. This constant growth and repair is what keeps the muscles and your body in good condition. This, in turn, slows down the aging process.

Now he does make the point that physical activity like jogging, cycling and swimming for example, are not really exercise but the intense exercise helps improve your performance of those physical activities. So you are resting from intense exercise.

Click to expand...

To add some further clarification, there is recovery from the exercise itself and then there is the additional adaptations made by the body in response to the intense exercise stimulus. Both require time, and both are considered part of the recovery period even though the adaptive response isn't really recovering but rather growing in response to the stimulus.

So say that you exercise as Drew describes to the point of momentary muscle failure for all your major muscle groups. That takes a toll on the body, and will require time to get back to where you were before the exercise, aka your baseline strength. However, in order for your body to get stronger, which is the point of exercise, it requires additional 'recovery' days to then build more muscle, connective tissue, mitochondria, etc.

Meaning that you're not recovering on all of your rest days, but rather growing and getting stronger for the majority of them! Ideally anyways.

Hope this makes sense.

Edit: Just saw dugdeep's comment, and I think it would be good to post the question on the show link.

Odyssey said:

lilies said:

There was a question of how to avoid extreme, "debilitating muscle pain" after strenuous exercise:

On that 'notorious next day': I noticed that if I keep strictly to the ketogenic diet minimizing veggie carbs and maximizing fat + broth intake those strong muscle pains and debilitating results of "aching all over in the body" remain unnoticeable. Recovery is painless and quick. [...]

Click to expand...

This has been my experience too. Being keto adapted, or even intermittent fasting for a time, makes muscle recovery much quicker.

Click to expand...

For those who love little details, here is a paper exploring the pain-relieving and anti-inflammatory effects of the ketogenic diet:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3312079/

On page 9, "Nociception and Inflammation: Multiple Mechanisms Likely"

Since listening to the interview with Dr Sircus https://www.sott.net/article/342906-The-Health-Wellness-Show-Treatment-Essentials-with-Dr-Mark-Sircus I've been using magnesium oil for any muscle pain, after exercising. Prior to that I had been taking it orally in a powdered form, but it doesn't appear to be nearly as beneficial as the oil.

Dr. Sircus: Well the easiest way to understand magnesium is if you understand what oil does to a car and if you try to take a car up a mountain without any oil in the engine it'll just seize up. It won't work. Magnesium is like lubrication for all the physiological processes in the body.

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I recently strained my groin (didn't stretch enough ) to the point where I couldn't walk without excruciating pain. The next morning, I got about 100m from my house and had to turn back and rest on the sofa for 3 days (leg raised and regular ice packing)! Anyway with a combination of DMSO https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17014.0.html

Musculoskeletal System

DMSO (either applied topically or consumed orally) minimizes the damage caused by crushing injuries such as Bruises and pulled or wrenched Muscles :

- DMSO is a powerful scavenger of Hydroxyl Free Radicals which are responsible for much of the damage caused in these injuries.

- If DMSO is applied quickly to an injury it is possible to eliminate entirely any Bruising.

Click to expand...

and magnesium oil, my recovery time was far speedier than in normal circumstances.
3 colleagues who work out regularly have been using the magnesium oil for a while now and all point towards it working in a beneficial way to reduce any muscle fatigue, alongside getting a better night's sleep.

Can Won said:

Since listening to the interview with Dr Sircus https://www.sott.net/article/342906-The-Health-Wellness-Show-Treatment-Essentials-with-Dr-Mark-Sircus I've been using magnesium oil for any muscle pain, after exercising. Prior to that I had been taking it orally in a powdered form, but it doesn't appear to be nearly as beneficial as the oil.

Dr. Sircus: Well the easiest way to understand magnesium is if you understand what oil does to a car and if you try to take a car up a mountain without any oil in the engine it'll just seize up. It won't work. Magnesium is like lubrication for all the physiological processes in the body.

Click to expand...

I recently strained my groin (didn't stretch enough ) to the point where I couldn't walk without excruciating pain. The next morning, I got about 100m from my house and had to turn back and rest on the sofa for 3 days (leg raised and regular ice packing)! Anyway with a combination of DMSO https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,17014.0.html

Musculoskeletal System

DMSO (either applied topically or consumed orally) minimizes the damage caused by crushing injuries such as Bruises and pulled or wrenched Muscles :

- DMSO is a powerful scavenger of Hydroxyl Free Radicals which are responsible for much of the damage caused in these injuries.

- If DMSO is applied quickly to an injury it is possible to eliminate entirely any Bruising.

Click to expand...

and magnesium oil, my recovery time was far speedier than in normal circumstances.
3 colleagues who work out regularly have been using the magnesium oil for a while now and all point towards it working in a beneficial way to reduce any muscle fatigue, alongside getting a better night's sleep.

Click to expand...

Thank You for the idea! Will try magnesium oil, especially that Dr. Mark Circus mentioned it in the amazing show. Currently making sure taking the powder at night before exercise always helped my heart to remain symptom-free. Otherwise I got chest tightness and needed to stop mid-exercise. Since on iodine protocol the palpitations went away and after every exercise I put DMSO on top of my head, on thinning hair, these must be contributing for recovery as well. Can't wait to feel the magnesium oil on my always sensitive skin! I noticed when I get a good amount of sun with slight sunburn, my skin gets less irritated by various plastics containing shirts that have those cheap "rough stingy threading". Also eyeing hemp shirts to try out first time in life, just never had enough money to plan for and buy them.