4th Way Teachings

Ben

Ben

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I have been reading the material on Cassiopaea and Signs almost constantly since last Summer and naturally I have read much material by Gurdjieff/Ouspensky and Mouravieff. I feel that with all the knowledge I have gained and the perspective I have on life itself the only logical progression for me is to gain as much understanding of the Work as possible. I have been practicing self observation of a sort for a few years now, even before I came across this material. Today I have ordered 'In Search of the Miraculous' and a friend of mine has ordered all volumes of 'Gnosis'.

I was wondering what suggestions might be made by those of you who are familiar with this situation, especially as to which books and teachers provide the best material for practical use. I consider myself to be quite linguistically proficient but still find much of Gurdjieff's material in particular to be difficult and painstaking reading.

I have SEEN and now I want to DO. I feel that if I do not use this knowledge I have gained (other than disseminating it to others, as I do) I will have failed myself and those around me.

Thanks
 
You might be surprised by 'In search of the miraculous', it goes really in depth, will all sorts of diagrams etc. Its almost the opposite of a Gurdjieff book, in the way its written (ie regarding how easy it is to understand the ideas expressed). When reading Gurdjieff, I could easily spend half an hour on just one page. That can happen with ISOTM, but its not so frequent. Anyway, I think its probably the best book to start out with, especially when you're already familiar with some of Gurdjieffs ideas. I only got the book a little while ago and I'm about half way through it, and I think that its best for me to focus on this book for now, as I don't want to "overload" myself with information. Maybe you will find this too?
 
Ben said:
I consider myself to be quite linguistically proficient but still find much of Gurdjieff's material in particular to be difficult and painstaking reading.
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It's interesting that you bring this up, because certain Gurdjieff writings are specifically designed to do just that to the reader. The style in which he wrote Beezlebub's Tales to His Grandson is meant to bypass mechanical/automatic thinking (thus forcing the mind to work to read and understand what he's writing). I found it to be very energizing in its way, and to definitely be a work that was not easy to read, yet was easy to understand - if that makes any sense at all. =)
 
anart said:
It's interesting that you bring this up, because certain Gurdjieff writings are specifically designed to do just that to the reader. The style in which he wrote Beezlebub's Tales to His Grandson is meant to bypass mechanical/automatic thinking (thus forcing the mind to work to read and understand what he's writing). I found it to be very energizing in its way, and to definitely be a work that was not easy to read, yet was easy to understand - if that makes any sense at all. =)
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Before reading Gurdjieff's Beezlebub's Tales to His Grandson I was aware that the writing style was meant to diminish automatic/mechanical thinking, so I was expecting it to be slow going while reading it. It was slow for the first 100 pages or so, but once I became accustomed to his writing style the pace of my reading rose back up to normal speed. The writing style he used is really quite fun to read, in my opinion, once one becomes accustomed to it.

ISOTM was more painstaking for me. I found that I would get stuck on a certain concept and start thinking about it, which made it slower for me. I guess it depends on the person. :)
 
I've started reading "Views from the Real World" by Gurdjieff translated into turkish. This book gives from what I've read (110 pages yet) just general concepts so far - no elaborations of the concepts. The book is said to have been assembled by his students from his first lectures given in Moscow, Essentuli, Tibilis, Berlin, London, Paris, New York and Chicago. I will order his other books in English from amazon when I have the money.
I'm also reading the Castaneda series in turkish. Here in Turkiye you can pay for books in 3 installments when you pay via credit card. But you cannot find all the books you want either they are out of print or have not been translated yet.
 
Thanks for the replies, these comments about the language Gurdjieff uses have given me food for thought. One thing that I noticed about his writing style is that it was very unique and almost enjoyably sophisticated to read, but that it was not the sort of style which promotes fluency of reading (I realise that this is not the most important thing). I had not considered that this should be for an intentional purpose of discouraging 'normal' or 'mechanical' thought processes, now that I consider it, why would it not be written in that way!

I can't wait for ISOTM.
 
anart said:
Ben said:
I consider myself to be quite linguistically proficient but still find much of Gurdjieff's material in particular to be difficult and painstaking reading.
Click to expand...
It's interesting that you bring this up, because certain Gurdjieff writings are specifically designed to do just that to the reader. The style in which he wrote Beezlebub's Tales to His Grandson is meant to bypass mechanical/automatic thinking (thus forcing the mind to work to read and understand what he's writing). I found it to be very energizing in its way, and to definitely be a work that was not easy to read, yet was easy to understand - if that makes any sense at all. =)
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Gurdjieff also said in BTTHG that its more "creative" to write it in a different way, or words to that effect. I think he was trying to make a point about how people are always copying each other and thus not saying anything new.

One other thing I found about Gurdjieff is that one one hand he writes in a way which requires a lot of effort, and then on the other hand there are some sentances in there which are simple and profound. I'm definately going to read it through once I've finished with ISOTM :D
 
Well, ISOTM has arrived and I'm reading that at the moment, what are people's thoughts on Ouspensky's 'Fourth Way'?, it seems like it would be a good 'follow-up'.
 
I came to read Gurdjieff through getting a dusty old 1957 first edition of the Fourth Way some years ago. It is drier than In Search Of, more conventional, taking the form of staccato Questions and Answers from lectures, and (probably therefore) didn't have the same fandom in the 1960's. The core messages are identical.

I have a passing question, and not a judgmental one.

Who amongst the readership here has been drawn to a "school" to assist in whatever they have determined "the work" to be? And who is more "going it alone"?
 
Okay, I finally "gave in" and started to read Beelzebub's Tales to His Grandson. So far it has been most entertaining and due to my attention being "held", I have only come up against a few little struggles. But that is not why I wanted to post, it was the following on pages 62-63, which literally made my jaw drop:

"There is still another planet in that solar system, my dear boy, quite a small one, bearing the name 'Moon.'

"During its movement this peculiar little planet often came very near our planet Mars and sometimes for whole kilprenos [hours] I took great pleasure in observing, through the 'teskooano,' [telescope] in my observatory, the process of existence of the three-brained beings who inhabit it.

"Though the beings of this planet have very frail planetary bodies, they have an indomitable spirit, which gives them an extraordinary perseverance and capacity for work.

"Their external form is like that of large ants, and like them they are always bustling about, working both on and within their planet.

"The results of their ceaseless activity are already plainly visible.

"I once happened to notice that in two of our years they had 'tunneled' the whole of their planet. They were obliged to undertake this task on account of the abnormal 'climatic conditions' there, caused by the fact that this planet arose unexpectedly, and therefore the regulation of its climatic harmony had not been prearranged by the Higher Powers.

"The climate of this planet is truly 'mad,' and in its variability could give points to the most high-strung, hysterical women existing on another planet of that solar system, which I shall also tell you about.

"Sometimes the cold is so intense on this Moon that everything is frozen through and through, and it becomes impossible for beings to breathe in the open atmosphere, and then suddenly it gets so hot that you could fry an egg in a Jiffy.

"There are only two short periods on that peculiar little planet, namely, before and after it completes its orbit around a neighboring planet, when the weather is so glorious that for several rotations the whole planet is in bloom, and yields the various products for the first being-food of its inhabitants - even greatly in excess of what they need for existence in that strange intraplanetary kingdom they have devised, where they are sheltered from the vagaries of this mad climate and all the inharmonious changes in the state of the atmosphere.

"Not far from that small planet is another, larger planet, which occasionally comes quite close to Mars, and is called 'Earth.'

"The Moon is actually a fragment of this Earth, which must now constantly maintain the Moon's existence.
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Anybody who has read at least a couple of abduction cases can see the absolute similarity in description of the standard Gray alien; coupled with remarks by the C's and a few other sources in regards to being "food" for something else, it becomes clear that this little piece of the book - that can be so easily dismissed as "fantastical" and just a bit of nonsense - is critical and can be taken literally. The whole "tales to his grandson" aspect is also very interesting in this regard, it seems . . .

On with the reading!
 
To answer Avatar:
<-- going it alone.

I "stumbled" onto my knowledge sources as if the universe itself is handing them to me. Happens by coincidence. Started with celestine, which is a good start point, but thats about it. Shortly thereafter i was handed Power vs Force by David Hawkins, Brief History of Time by Steven Hawkins, and The High Performance Mind by Anna Wise. That made for a complete introduction to the whacky reality that we're in for me.

From there it was a myriad of Fiction that just had to many parallels to what i was experiencing to be complete fiction. Books like Orson Scott Card's (i know he's nuts) Alvin Maker Series gave me insight on point of awareness. His Memory of Earth Series with its concept of an Oversoul gave me the ability to talk to my unconcious and not think i was insane. Best Money Democracy Can Buy by Greg Palast got me on the political train, along with the 9-11 Commission Report, and Against all enemies by Richard Clark.

The Matrix caught my attention and i ended up watching it over and over throughout college because i just didn't quite "get it". Each time i picked up a little bit more, then i had the realization i should listen to the conversations as if they were directed at the audience instead of viewing it as an interaction between the characters. The concepts there resonated with me. The same phenomena i found was present in Xmen movies, and as a consequence of their discussion of Once and Future King i picked up that book, which while difficult to get through has morals and stories important for anyone who interacts with others.

My one friend is a bible thumper and we were discussing the apocalypse and he mentioned in the "end times" there would be people who would take on characteristics of god. I've had this feeling since i was a wee child that eventually id get superpowers (too many cartoons) so i saw a probable connection here in the christian mythology. So i started researching the apocalypse and that's how i stumbled onto SOTT. Sidenote: Just finished Lost Star by Cruttenden gonna write up a book report in the books section, but he mentions how the times we are in is a transition point from the Age of Man to the Age of Heros - Another hint that we'll get extra-normal abilities, the same theme is recurrent in the talk of 4D, but i digress.

I refuse to believe any one school of thought has all the answers therefore i take bits from each, whatever resonates with me i keep and whatever sounds like poppycock or manipulation i leave behind. Back on topic: I don't like Gurdjieff nor Mouravieff, but find when they are put into context or their ideas are explained i have a better time digesting the material. IE the quote above: I don't quite get it. I mean, i understand he's using ants and the moon as a metaphor for 3D/4D Lizards feeding off of us, but why all the dancing around it? I much prefer Laura's style of blunt honesty as given in the wave series.
 
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