A symbiotic relationship

[Menna]

Symbiotic relationships are a special type of interaction between species. These relationships are essential to many organisms and ecosystems, and

they provide a balance that can only be achieved by working together.

The C's talk about balance consistently when talking about the universe and life in general. With this being said I would like to quote the recent session with the C's I believe this topic is very important. I also believe that there is no one definition that can encapsulate what they mean and that there are many levels that one mind can not see. Hence me opening a thread about the beginning of the most recent session:

Q: (L) Okay. I'm going to start the discussion with what's on my mind. Actually, there are two things. The first thing is that I noticed that after the last session, a lot of people discussing it in the forum thread volunteered information about what they were doing to help to do this, to do that, and the other thing. We had the impression here that when the information came through that a person must put another on the step behind them, that that meant directly in terms of the Work... That it had to be someone on the ladder, or on the stairway, or on the path so to speak. So, could you clarify that? Is that, in fact, what was meant? That you meant somebody who was really asking and engaged in working on themselves, etc?

A: More than that, it means that total engagement in energy exchange with the network. If a person benefits from the efforts of others and there is no return energy, there will be blocks of all sorts in their lives.

Q: (L) Okay, when you say, "There will be blocks of all sorts in their lives"... Blocks of what kind?

A: The blocks will reflect what it is that they are unable to give. If a person cannot be sincere, they will experience people in their personal lives who are not sincere with them. If a person devalues another's efforts, they will find their own efforts devalued. If you need to unblock a certain area of your life, make the effort to give what you want or need yourself.

Q: (L) But are you talking particularly about people engaged in the Work, or just anybody in general?

A: Anybody, but double in the work.

Q: (L) Okay, does this line of questioning inspire any questions in ya'll? Can you think of anything else to ask on this topic?

(Nicolas) This applies in the forum more than it would personally since we're not really interacting with too many people with the Work physically?

A: There are many avenues to interact in the work!!!

Q: [Discussion of letters and misspellings] (L) Just in case ya'll wonder, I'm messing up with calling out letters tonight for some reason.

(Andromeda) Tired.

(L) Yeah. We're going to try to synchronize here a little bit better. I need more tobacco. Okay, so you were saying that you don't how to interact with the Work because you're not physically present. And they said, "There are many ways..." and I would assume that means on the forum and with giving and doing and working on projects and so forth. Whatever's available in small ways, I think, for the moment. And then that opens the door for more direct interaction with others on “the path”, I would think.

(Aleana) What about in your daily life? I mean, even if it's just talking about health issues with people... I mean, not forcing on it on them, but just putting things out there just to see what responses you get? Or is it more just confine it to the forum and work as much as you can on SOTT and the forum?

A: The latter is very important in terms of balancing energy you have received. But you can also extend assistance to those around you if they are asking.

Q: (L) Anything else? Is there anything else we need on this topic?

(Chu) No, I mean, I think what they're saying is for example if you're disrespectful to people outside, or you devalue them or whatever, you're also not applying the Work principles. You have to be strategic.

(L) Yeah, external considering and all that.

(Chu) Yeah.

(L) Okay, anything else on that?

A: Many people are not fully aware of the amount of labor that goes and has gone into this network. For this reason they tend not to value lifetimes of work that go into presenting the fundamental lessons of your reality. And, if they do not see the value and return adequate energy, they find blocks in their path.

Q: (L) Alright, that's enough on that. I mean, is there anything else you want to say about it? I mean, I kinda get it.

A: Okay! But will readers "get it"?

What do they mean by blocks in a measurable sense why is the person not giving energy back when they receive it? If these is a universal law why don't we know to do it if we are born in this universe? How does not giving the energy back hold the receiver back emotionaly, physically and mentally?

How do you know when you have received energy?

How do you know the quantity of the energy received?

How do you know the appropriate amount to give back?

What happens if you dont give enough are there only small blocks?

What if you give too much?

Why is the energy blocks double in the work and not with people who are not in the work?

If the energy comes in the form of advice does the energy given back have to be in spoken words? If the energy is physical does the energy given back have to be physical?

I am sure there are more questions that others can come up with based off of the above part of the recent session. These are just some questions that I have.

At the end the C's ask will the readers get it and to be completely honest I think I understand about 60% of what they mean but there is a big chunk missing. Hopefully others can help me out and intern help the other members of the forum that read this thread.

Thanks :)

 

[edgitarra]

First of all, thanks for posting these questions. And this is what I can respond to them, of course up to date with the level of my knowledge and being:

What do they mean by blocks in a measurable sense why is the person not giving energy back when they receive it? If these is a universal law why don't we know to do it if we are born in this universe? How does not giving the energy back hold the receiver back emotionaly, physically and mentally?

I am not sure that it is a case of measurement as we know it. I am curios, when you refer to "measurable sense", what field of measure you think of?

The blocks will reflect what it is that they are unable to give. If a person cannot be sincere, they will experience people in their personal lives who are not sincere with them. If a person devalues another's efforts, they will find their own efforts devalued. If you need to unblock a certain area of your life, make the effort to give what you want or need yourself.

This can be simplified to the famous saying "in life, what you give is what you get", even though it is not working all the time.
So in order to unblock a certain area of ones life, a person has to value another's efforts, and they will find their own efforts valued. Might be that giving to others what oneself needs might have him get it back ten times bigger(another expression but this case I don't know the exact quote, read it from Gurdjieff).

A person is not giving back received energy - i think it is related to responsibility. A responsible man has to take great care of his actions, to be trully balanced. An irresponsible man who only receives might not have the very best intentions for others, or it is still very confused in finding his aims. Not knowing his actions, himself, he cannot know how he can affect the others around.
There is an universal law, but didn't we forget a lot of these laws? Or have them kept away from us by society, brainwashing, distractions? To find the laws of the universe one has to recconect with his real self, to get to know himself. Then there could be talks about laws. Only afterwords good explanations and definitions can be made for these laws as they mostly manifest through experience, being.

How do you know when you have received energy?

That is quite a difficult question to answer. But let me point this example for you: a musical band made of similar people with similar tastes, ideas, which put the same effort in composing a song; it is when a group exists and the group is made of people with a certain degree of individuality when there is an energy relationship. But I might be mistaken. These are my thoughts, it is the combination of knowledge and the experience I gained. Thus, receving this energy is something that has to be experienced, it is an "organic" experience. You have to feel it, to acknowledge where is it coming from.

How do you know the quantity of the energy received?

Maybe it is the untouched sense of right and wrong in us, an intuitive state. How do you know how to catch a ball with your hand? Who knows the precision, the angle of your hand in order to do it?

How do you know the appropriate amount to give back?

Analogue to the previous one. But in order to have a good relationship of this kind first of all both men have to clean their machines.

What happens if you dont give enough are there only small blocks?

Could be possible; it is maybe like watching a musical without hearing it. Half experiences. Incompleteness.

What if you give too much?

If you give too much you have to learn to give less. This can be related to be-nice programs that I have been reading in another thread. Giving too much can be a weakness, because then the person doesn't have a proper care of her own.

Why is the energy blocks double in the work and not with people who are not in the work?

I don't know exactly. But maybe it is not only The Work, but all kinds of works. It is maybe about people who have the same aim.

If the energy comes in the form of advice does the energy given back have to be in spoken words? If the energy is physical does the energy given back have to be physical?

Not necesarily. Energy received in a form of advice by a man who wants to take care of his ilness can be given back through by the recovered man, by using his body to help the one who gave an advice. I think all kinds of combinations are possible.

Hope it clarifies more! have a good day!

 

[Buddy]

Hopefully others can help me out and intern help the other members of the forum that read this thread.

Hi Menna. Here is my attempt at some answers.

What do they mean by blocks in a measurable sense why is the person not giving energy back when they receive it?

One reason might be that energy offered is not truly wanted or needed. Possibly connected with that, maybe energy is not really being received at all even when a person thinks he wants or needs it. That is, a person's receivership capacity may be so limited or blocked by self-sabotage or avoidance programs or maybe just a fear of change, the person can feel no benefit from what has been offered.

If these is a universal law why don't we know to do it if we are born in this universe?

Seems to me the existence of blocks is proof enough that we ARE born giving-receiving beings. Exchanging of energy is natural for us - the 'first condition' or the given situation. What we learn is how to block natural flows.

How does not giving the energy back hold the receiver back emotionaly, physically and mentally?

That idea is less a mechanism than an isomorphism, I think. IOW, the blocking, in and of itself, is the "holding back." As to the 'how', it may simply make you inactive in the relevant context or situation due to a perceived lack of energy, desire, motivation, purpose or vision of a beneficial change.

How do you know when you have received energy?

Perception of a change in personal energy levels or maybe a feeling you might describe as a release of something you've been holding back, whether or not you were aware of this effort. Maybe even an in-sight that you didn't have before.

How do you know the quantity of the energy received?

I personally think 'measuring quantity' is irrelevant for purposes of that session.

How do you know the appropriate amount to give back?

I think the appropriate answer is always to simply give all of whatever is asked for and that might be within you to offer. Otherwise you might feel yourself 'holding back' and narrating a justification, hence, creating 'blocks' to stop a return flow that wants to occur naturally.

What happens if you dont give enough are there only small blocks?

Seems reasonable that there might be a correspondence of magnitudes between energy and blocks when talking about reciprocal energy flows in specific situations or circumstances.

What if you give too much?

Assuming that "give too much" refers to the error of believing that self-sacrifice equates to destroying self in order to benefit other selves, I'd say let your conscience be your guide. And why not? Besides, how much is too much? Would the evaluation "too much" contain, in itself, the answer to 'what if'?

Why is the energy blocks double in the work and not with people who are not in the work?

My impression is that the C's phrase "double in the work" refers to emphasis on efforts "to give what you want or need yourself." IOW, taking the positive interpretation, effectiveness or efficacy is somehow enhanced or increased when the efforts are made within the network. Or perhaps the "payback" energy from the network will be doubly beneficial to you in some way.

If the energy comes in the form of advice does the energy given back have to be in spoken words? If the energy is physical does the energy given back have to be physical?

I don't know that there's an absolute rule for an answer to a question like this. I am aware of answers that fall into at least two main camps.

A self-described objectivist might say to trade energy for energy. That is, to exchange on the same level, energy offered on that particular level, otherwise a translation is done between levels based on an arbitrary standard (like distorted beliefs or illusions) that may lead to unnecessary loss, like in posentropy.

A Gurdjieffian answer might be to not worry about it. Reciprocal Maintenance guarantees that Universe will not allow itself to be in "your" debt; that, in whatever form you give real value to whatever is in need of same, it will be returned to you in the short, medium or long term out of necessity to maintain your existence in a network or other ecological system.