A: You will do what you will do.

Huh I need help. ... rereading some concepts explained in this session from 4th May 1996, this blue answer made me think all day and night:


A: Yes. Total truth is elusive.

Q: (TK) So, what I said was the gist of what is going on here. So, we have to figure out what we are supposed to do so that the earth can be maintained...

A: You will do what you will do.

ok I am not really sure how to formulate this, but let's start from the concept that I call for myself the “Organic Knowledge”:

- Organic knowledge is for me sort of a product and set of organic, metabolic, phisical and mental mechanics and activities that "I will do what I will do"

- For me it is that knowledge which simply "clicks" within me and gave me that "aha" feeling and I can feel the chills in the body when I came to that "click".

- I am imagining that is how that knowledge than became the organic part of my body metabolism and that knowledge is in a direct organic communication with my DNA, my brain, nervous system etc and thorugh that it is all the time also in contact with the general cosmic source of information even if I am not aware oof it.

- That knowledge is possible to gain through the harmonious work of mind and body. If any is in some kind of disbalance it will be more difficult to produce enough energy to maintain both - to keep mind alert and awake and body comfortably alive, to create fruitfull base for discern knowledge to "click".

- As I am more and more discerning very quick I am also more and more forgetting in that very moment what I "learned", like names of people, who did that, or places, or years etc, but I do know that I know what I have to know, and I feel okay with that, even when I can’t even remember the name of the person year or so, as if I have to remember I will remember it sooner or later, as I never forgot something that I needed to know … generaly it is not that all the time I know that. I need a context to awake my knowledge. If the context is "right", than I simply know.

- The right context for me is the situation that needs me to know, not the situation when everyone is showing up what they know. What is for example a bit difficult in some "party" situations, as everyone thinks I know everything, but at parties I don't .. inother words I know almost "nothing" ...

- Due to that I am more and more unwilling to “plan” but I am willing more and more just to wake up and do what I have to do as I know what I know, and I know that all will be done as it haveto be, as in general I will do what I will do, as I always do.

- Even thinking that way, and now writing that sentence brings chills of timeles content in me.

- I realize on a smaller more “local” scale among people that I know and the situations that are common to us in everyday life, that sharing discerned information truly resonated with others in the same situation, even better if we don't talked about that and it helps generaly "silently" to dissolve that particular false control systems concepts, methods and happenings as more and more people were "clicking" just by reading or hearing my acknowledgment and explanation. It was nice to see silently how things can be dissolved “up there” if just a decent number of people came to objective conclusion in their minds in a short amount of time. Like kind of how I am imagining a "Mind melding"?

- This "clicking" I am imagining is like when you play tetris, when all the blocks are puzzled they vanish, same as that discernment lie.

- Once when the dots are connected and I am ready to present it publicly, and I do that, pretty soon that situation is resolved, and no one is interested in that kind of "narratives" any more. That made me think - How does it works? Is it possible to make a frequency ripple effect from my mind, which creates the energy and frequency and vibration in the density that is like under the radar and not in thefiled of the manipulative frequencies and narratives?

- Also I noticed recently that no matter how many "manipulative narratives" are debunked, it is not decreasing the eruption of manipulative narratives from whoever creating that to manipulate, but contrary.

- I also think that is the mechanics they do manipulation so I am thinking that maybe this my question is maybe just manipulation of my mind to overthink it?

- In that regard I started to think that maybe 4D STS is playing tetris by just feeding people's mind with whatever narratives to make us feel that we are discerning them and in that game it is not really good to keep on debunking the manipulative patterns, as it is becoming a loop of mind exhaustion?

So my question is, is it possible that maybe we are racing to the point when these narrative mind games of 4D STS will stop only if we stop debunking them? Can it be sort of a trap for our learning path? Sort of a looping and chase of the tail, instead of closing the case, and detaching from and leaving those who are still in looping mode to loope, and just keep on going up the spiral of curiosity?

IF this my train of thoughts is in the correct direction, can we trust that same click and “aha” feeling when we feel we seen it all and we don't want to participte in it, as that is not making any objective sense withinnew relaity that is emerging?

When do we know it is enough, and it is better to leave before we get exhausted in the debunking loop games?

Thx ... :cool2:
 

MatiaS

Jedi
I think I see where you're coming from with your word salad, it sounds quite familiar to the kinds of thoughts I have.

I also find that reality seems to arrange itself on purpose for me to question and even change my beliefs. I don't know if that's the influence of the 4D STS aspect, or if it's just a natural process. Then again, we could probably say that 4D STS also is part of this "natural process", so the line is fine.

In the past years it's happened to me on a number of occasions, that I come to some conclusion, have an epiphany about something or quite simply just come to a point that I feel that I'm "done" with something; "done" in the sense that "I've finally figured it out". Then, after this conclusion or understanding, it's as if my reality quite purposefully arranges itself in a way that forces me, quite blatantly at times, to question that very conclusion/understanding I was so sure was.. well, conclusive.

Maybe that somehow is a point for us to learn also; that in one way, we're never done with "debunking the loop games". They will continue, may it be on another level and from another point of view(s), but "the Grand Cycle" implies a loop. We're always running in circles, probably even on the higher levels. It's what we do and what we see that changes the quality of experience.

If we're just repeating lessons, never learning, we're "debunking" the same loop over and over again, be it in an infinitude of variations, and things start to become stale, as you describe:
So my question is, is it possible that maybe we are racing to the point when these narrative mind games of 4D STS will stop only if we stop debunking them? Can it be sort of a trap for our learning path? Sort of a looping and chase of the tail, instead of closing the case, and detaching from and leaving those who are still in looping mode to loope, and just keep on going up the spiral of curiosity?

Somehow the lesson is not being learned, as we seemingly are chasing the tail again and again. And what is the way to stop chasing the tail? Or is there a way to actually catch it, conclusively..? Maybe there's not supposed to be a conclusion?

IF this my train of thoughts is in the correct direction, can we trust that same click and “aha” feeling when we feel we seen it all and we don't want to participte in it, as that is not making any objective sense withinnew relaity that is emerging?

There's always another line of study/research to take, another project to embark on, another skill to learn, another whatever. I don't think that on this level of reality "feeling like we've seen it all" can be used as an argument.
 

Alejo

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
So my question is, is it possible that maybe we are racing to the point when these narrative mind games of 4D STS will stop only if we stop debunking them? Can it be sort of a trap for our learning path? Sort of a looping and chase of the tail, instead of closing the case, and detaching from and leaving those who are still in looping mode to loope, and just keep on going up the spiral of curiosity?
I do not think so, I think that if we stop "debunking" them, then we have given up the task of reading reality. And their narratives will take firm hold on us. And in that sense the new narratives would stop springing up to overwrite the old ones, but not because they stop... it would be simply be because we've stopped digging through the noise.

So, it's more like, we would have stopped moving in the direction of the new narratives, if that makes sense.
When do we know it is enough, and it is better to leave before we get exhausted in the debunking loop games?
I don't think that is quite possible, at least not in any scenario I can conceive of.
 
I do not think so, I think that if we stop "debunking" them, then we have given up the task of reading reality.

So, it's more like, we would have stopped moving in the direction of the new narratives, if that makes sense.

I don't think that is quite possible, at least not in any scenario I can conceive of.
Thank you very much for your explanation.

So if I understood you right - it is not about stopping "debunking" but it is more about keeping on debunking but not participating, and simultaneously keeping on living everyday life more in the STO orientation? As we do in general ... ?

Living more and more in STO orientation is becoming more and more difficult if we live in the cities of the EU or USA and the "west" world and if we depend on working between each other and have family members who are not even considering that there can be other densities and dimensions around us.

Even if one will be able personally to detach simultaneously more and more from the dependency of the system, and will keep on detaching, it seems almost impossible as long as there is a family depending on income earned by the work of that person here in this STS reality.

For example, for me, it feels like I am managing to get out of the whirlpool from a wild river, and I am at the top of the cliff seeing the empty wast land in front of me, while the family members are all on the rope I gave them to get out, but somehow the whirlpool is not that difficult for them and they like to swing on the waterfalls, and they feel the rope is in good hands, and no one is really wanting to climb up, so you don't have much choice than to keep on holding the rope standing on the cliff?

If you respect their free will, well you can express your thoughts, but It is to loud to even try to tell them that the stronger tide is coming and they need to hurry to climb up, and in that case, what you can do, you probably won't let the rope off and send them to sink? It is more realistic to believe that you will be washed also when the big tide comes, while you will for sure hope until the last minute that someone will finally start to climb the rope to get out?

Or is in that little "believe" the glitch that one needs to get rid of any "believes"? It is the meaning of "You will do what you will do"?

But what if the objective reality is already a "sunken ship". How do we know that? It is not that all the STO-oriented individuals will be on the same level of discernment to be able to compare their understandings?

What I am questioning myself is Why I am seeing the sunken ship and people who are happy to sink with it, and every other move than letting them to sink will be infringing of their "free will" which is alredy probably infringed by manipulations, but any way ...

For me now at this point of sinking, it looks very easy for STS to manipulate, as they just need to produce the narrative that will start to grow the 4D STS reality in people's minds, and if that one is not effective they switch to another narative just in few hours literary ...

STS forces need people's "minds" to believe in the "narative" how the "western" ship is ok, to keep their ship on the surface, while they are trying to repair the hole at the bottom?

Will, that feeling of "Importance of debunking" and "heroic importance of not giving up" be kind of a "narative" trap that STS forces are producing to keep us in their "mood", as we are still 3D STS, and we desire to be STO oriented?

Isn't it better, in that case, to let the ship sink by not paying attention to their narrative around the theme that one discern as "lost" or "finished" in the original version of their wishful thinking narative?

It feels like we are watching the season 1 of the reality show apocalypse, but in the middle of the episodes, they all of a sudden realize they losing the audience so they start introducing new lateral branching episodes, that don't make sense but are chain reactive and easy to keep peoples mind to follow them, feeling good while thinking they are the "debunking agents" ...

the Internet is a perfect NET-WORK to catch the minds, stuff them with the ideas, and spit them out once the whole planet is ready.

But on the other side Internet is also a waste ocean of unpredictable and open spaces and "analog to digital and to analog" tools can be of great help to start to get off the system and blend and coexist more with the planet and nature and less with the man-made system ....
 
There's always another line of study/research to take, another project to embark on, another skill to learn, another whatever. I don't think that on this level of reality "feeling like we've seen it all" can be used as an argument.

Thank you for your thoughts and sharing of your experience, yes it is very tricky and easy to go astray thinking that STS is not manipulating our minds when we are still 3D STS ... I love the term "word salad", that is exactly what I feel in my mind when I want to put into words what I feel ...;-D:huh::cool2: ...

Yes it is kind of difficult to explain what I want to ask, so I obviously put it wrong, as sure I don't think it is ever possible to "see it all" and it is not the point that is a goal needs to be achieved in this world before we died. I was referring to the narative reality created by STS, which is like a movie or a novel and it has an end.

So what if we start watching the show, but after a few minutes we can see the end?
Shall we watch it until the end, or shall we just leave it ...
 
Hi and thanks for your analysis. Would it be possible to make your question(s) a bit more clear?
Hi, huh ... yes I will try ... ok, you made me laugh as I didn't though I did the analysis ...

I thought that "analysis" was my attempt to explain how I feel in order to ask more clearly this:

1. Is that what I call "organic knowledge" is what is referred to as the "knowledge that protects"?

2. Is that mechanics I analyze in myself, is it a kind of mechanics that produces biochemistry and metabolic changes that are converting the "narratives" and information into biochemistry that is helping to "crystalize" knowledge within our bodies, that is not neccecerly expressed from us through "naratives"?

3. I am not sure if this is a more clear way of asking what I want to ask?

and In answering MatiaS and Alejo I might come to more clear asking of:

4. How do we know we gained the "knowledge that protects"?

thx
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Hi hollenoaea

I’m just trying to understand your ideas.

You feel that in your ‘immediate consciousness’, or normal waking mode, that there’s not much going on inside your head. That you don’t really have any knowledge, thoughts or ideas.

But, when you are presented with a certain situation or interaction in life or with other people, it triggers a process where the knowledge in you is retrieved by your mind, thereby demonstrating that you do indeed have knowledge.

So, you are now wondering if you should let the regular flow of life, from one moment to the next, trigger the knowledge in you which then causes you to act in a certain way, rather than trying to hold a lot of specific ideas that you believe are the best ones about what you should be doing in each moment, and always trying to force yourself to follow those.

This would be ‘letting go’ of thinking and instead, trusting the process of your life to trigger your thinking for you, since that seems to be the only time when you’re able to really access any knowledge at all. And so, the question that has arisen from this is, “Is there actually any reason for me to try to think?”
 
Hi hollenoaea

I’m just trying to understand your ideas.

You feel that in your ‘immediate consciousness’, or normal waking mode, that there’s not much going on inside your head. That you don’t really have any knowledge, thoughts or ideas.

But, when you are presented with a certain situation or interaction in life or with other people, it triggers a process where the knowledge in you is retrieved by your mind, thereby demonstrating that you do indeed have knowledge.

So, you are now wondering if you should let the regular flow of life, from one moment to the next, trigger the knowledge in you which then causes you to act in a certain way, rather than trying to hold a lot of specific ideas that you believe are the best ones about what you should be doing in each moment, and always trying to force yourself to follow those.

This would be ‘letting go’ of thinking and instead, trusting the process of your life to trigger your thinking for you, since that seems to be the only time when you’re able to really access any knowledge at all. And so, the question that has arisen from this is, “Is there actually any reason for me to try to think?”
hey thank you for this explanation, I am laughing as you gave me perspective of how unclear my post is ... :)

It is not that I don't know anything, not really like that I would like to be "mindless" and not to think, it is not a problem and it is ok, but I rather just watch the birds and be alone and read and observe and create, etc and when in a group and with people I rather just listen to what others are saying, and if not asked in particular to do something or to answer on some question, I will be happy not to interfere ...

And I would like to be like that in my paid work too, just to acknowledge that I exist with that kind of skill that is understandable from my previous work, and wait to be asked into action, instead to initiate one by myself?

Or if initiation by myself is needed, I wish to escape those initiations needed primarily for existential paycheck stuff and to initiate it only if it is part of my learning process and will contribute to a better understanding of certain research and concepts for me and my personal development, that once asked I can share and implement, but it is not the primary goal of that initiative and interaction.

Generally, I am doubting that initiation by me into a "new project" that is primarily done to "sell" my knowledge in order to gain money to feed my family, is not a good thing to do?

And maybe will be more clear if I explain my situation:

it happened that in 30 years I never was selling directly myself or my products or my services, even in this predatory world, it seems now that, thanks to that, I have been protected to be too exhausted by many emotionally draining situations, and I feel sort of thankfulness for that opportunity, and that is also making me feel content of "not knowing" when it is not important to know, as nothing ever missed me to say all I know with great results for all who asked.

And I would like to keep on living like that, but things are changed.

In the past, I was circulating the world very extensively and have been invited at many places to present my work, which was known to many thx to the Internet, and what was the reason how someone will find me before I will come to the phase of need to go around and offer my skills in order to feed my family ...

But after these 2 years, the circle of people I want to deal with is getting smaller and smaller which is also affecting their needs for my skills, as I am not presenting them to that professional circles anymore and I am not really going around anymore, so they are forgetting about me what is on a way good as no one will tempt me to go back, as I don't want even to remind them of myself again. What is all good so far and it is not that I am missing them, but what is maybe making me anxious in advance, is that I isolated myself maybe too much, and maybe soon the time will come when I will need to go around and sell myself to them for paychecks, what brings sickness and loathing in me even to think of that as the last step to feed my family?

Uh anyhow, I have no idea if that is clearer ... but thank you for reading and commenting, I truly appreciate it as it is also showing me that I will need to work on "clearing" the writings of my thoughts and formulating my questions ...
 

Ina

The Living Force
It would be a true white canvas if we were not in a Game.
The Game is Planned and Controlled Antidevelopment.
Depending on where one is, geographically, I believe, everyone recognized the limitations at first, followed by stagnation and then destruction of education, health, both mental and physical, transportation, culture that was replaced by entertainment, living conditions, personal industriousness, and governance, both personal as well as civic.
After everything that was provided by the System was gradually taken away starting with the early 70 or the late 60s, what is currently being retracted is the carburants, fuel and food. Also, there is the artificial inflation in the price of electrical energy.
If there was a drive towards change, there would be the new forms of *.* being introduced. However, and maybe I am being blind, I cannot see anything new.
So, what you say has perhaps a more general application, as the solution implies also a very brave decision, the decision to only work towards your own development, or to work towards the state of development of the surrounding environment both physical and spiritual relating you and the ones that surround or interact with you.
 

Ben

Dagobah Resident
It is not that I don't know anything, not really like that I would like to be "mindless" and not to think, it is not a problem and it is ok, but I rather just watch the birds and be alone and read and observe and create, etc and when in a group and with people I rather just listen to what others are saying, and if not asked in particular to do something or to answer on some question, I will be happy not to interfere ...
Sometimes saying nothing is the best option available, as Gurdjieff said: 'sincerity with everyone is weakness'. What you do or don't do will always depend on the specific situation. Isolation might be preferable in some extreme situations but generally would not be a useful state for working on oneself. Of course, most people need some time alone (some, like myself, much more than others). It's about balance and sustainable use of energy regarding the people in your life. Navigating the ordinary conditions of life, including interacting with many different types of people, is the goal. Avoiding people might mean you can't GIVE much.

Have you read about the 4th way term 'Strategic enclosure'?
 

SlavaOn

Jedi Master
yes it is very tricky and easy to go astray thinking that STS is not manipulating our minds when we are still 3D STS ...
I come to think that those 4D STS bastards are busy not only screwing with our thoughts, but they also mess up anything else that we do, if that is what they do not approve of. I started making mental notes that Murphy's Law is always present in many of my activities. Tools break, things get lost as soon as you shift focus, then they reappear. It happens too often to consider that natural/normal.

Although, it could be a facet of the aging process, where the mental faculties deteriorate quicker than physical?
 
Sometimes saying nothing is the best option available, as Gurdjieff said: 'sincerity with everyone is weakness'. What you do or don't do will always depend on the specific situation. Isolation might be preferable in some extreme situations but generally would not be a useful state for working on oneself. Of course, most people need some time alone (some, like myself, much more than others). It's about balance and sustainable use of energy regarding the people in your life. Navigating the ordinary conditions of life, including interacting with many different types of people, is the goal. Avoiding people might mean you can't GIVE much.

Have you read about the 4th way term 'Strategic enclosure'?
Hello Ben, thank you!

"Strategic Enclosure" answers most of my questions in this post.

It is fun, as I am rereaidng it again right now, as I was reading replays at my comments on the 4th May 1996 session 3 hours ago, and I just recalled in my mind that a long time ago I read about "Strategic enclosure" and I went to find it, and just finished reading all that again ... from the definitions General Law, of A B C influences, external considering, development of magnetic center ... and I just took a pause to digest it and need to get back to it again, to re-read some concepts that are still not that clear in me.

I am reading about it from the FOTCM encyclopedia I downloaded in PDF ...

At this point, then my questions are:

1. How do I know I developed a magnetic center and it is not just another STS trick?
2. is my "feeling of knowing when it needs to be known" a kind of feel of certain "magnetic presence" in me?
3. How I know who is and will be my C influence real people circle? Is it one person, or is it a group?
 
So, what you say has perhaps a more general application, as the solution implies also a very brave decision, the decision to only work towards your own development, or to work towards the state of development of the surrounding environment both physical and spiritual relating you and the ones that surround or interact with you.
Thank you Ina, yes sort of that is what is possible to work on for me right now, as the place where I live is good, but it is extremely provincial social conditioning of the almost full respect to the General Law with all the dramas created by the A influences, what is good on a way, as it is easy to stay out of that and still be able to respect their way through external considering and still be part of a "small talk" community ...

But at the same time, I want to stay to live where I live now, but somehow detach from the A influences almost completely, especially through my work, as now reading it about "strategic enclosure" concepts, I conclude that it is in particular what I feel for that place where I live now, I can't "debunk" any more anything, as it is a repetitive chain of A influences going on and on and on and for me this my place is an already sunken ship, that is actually at the bottom of the sea for centuries ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: Joe
Top Bottom