Aging Will Cease To Exist

[Abats]

How can you know that having 200 years or more to live (and a possibility of reversing damage done to the body by your reckless lifestyle and diet), you wouldn't be postponing your personal development and engage instead in adventurous life? How do you know that the conditions of your much longer existence would be less overwhelming?

In what I said, I absolutely did not make any assumptions that you put here, it was more of a step back that in the end, our earthly lives are short compared to all the personal development work required to no longer be ignorant (or at least in large part), simply!

 

[Neil]

How can you know that having 200 years or more to live (and a possibility of reversing damage done to the body by your reckless lifestyle and diet), you wouldn't be postponing your personal development and engage instead in adventurous life? How do you know that the conditions of your much longer existence would be less overwhelming? Think about your nervous system having to deal with high stress due to such conditions for two or three hundred years. And there is so much more to it...

And I could just as easily ask you how can you know that it wouldn't? This argument could be applied to any invention you care to mention. How can I know that something will only be used for good? I can absolutely guarantee that it will not, reality does not work that way. It's all in the choices one makes, no? Freewill and all of that...

Similar discussions were probably held during nuclear energy research and maybe even the internet. "How do you know that the entire atmosphere won't ignite, the radiation is going to kill everybody...there will be a nuclear war, consider the ramifications. It will be the end of everything!" or "How do you know communication will still be valued when it becomes so cheap and anonymous? When no one has to put their creative energy into penning a physical object. It will make it easier for criminals to coordinate their enterprises, think of the ramifications for human trafficking..." Yet here we are living off of the fruits of nuclear energy and the internet to have this very discussion. Certainly those things did happen to a degree and were disruptive to the order that existed before, but in the end the door was opened to additional possibilities where some good came of it, some evil came of it, and life went on.

The main issue I have with people who promulgate these types of technologies is that they all subscribe to a heavily materialistic, if not nihilistic philosophy, which basically guarantees that their inventions will be discordant with spiritual principles and fraught with problems. I'm proposing a way that works in harmony with such principles, or at least incorporates them into the design philosophy so as to work symbiotically with creation instead of against it. In principle there is nothing wrong with implantable microchips which help the body to heal for example, however I know the intent behind these technologies is not healing, but enslavement. Thus, anything coming out of the biomedical establishment has to be handled very carefully if it is going to be used for good, because it is intended for evil.

 

[Joe]

If we assume reincarnation is a fact, then it seems reasonable to assume that human beings grow in experience and knowledge with each successive incarnation. People who have had enough lifetimes to learn enough to understand the limitations of 3D existence are ready to 'move on'. Those who have not are still enjoying the materialistic party. For the former, an extended lifetime would probably be useful to them, to benefit from their acquired experience and knowledge, although they may not find many opportunities to apply it in a world that is profoundly materialistic. For the latter, it might not be a good idea, since they'd probably just entrench themselves too deeply in materialism, to the detriment of their own spiritual evolution.

So it seems to me that an extended lifetime would have to be matched with an appropriately structured world. It sure would be nice to have access to such a world, where people of knowledge and being could associate with, and learn from, each other.

 

[Bobo08]

I remember reading somewhere that one of the reasons why the human life is much shorter now than in the distant past is because it would place too much burden on the human soul to be embodied longer in this environment. In other words, life limit has to match the environment. That's something to consider.

 

[Ocean]

While the discussion about the prospect of stopping/reversing the aging process is interesting and important by itself, especially when considering the reality of the world we live in, moral aspects of such intervention and possible consequences not only to an individual but also to the whole planet and its population (and there are many devils hiding in the details), I was not sure I'd trust Ezra Cohen Watnick and his telegram post. So I went to look for the source paper. For anyone interested, it's been published in eLife.

Just a heads up
'E' is NOT Ezra Cohen Whatnick.

 

[BlueKiwi]

When I've had conversations with my children about mortality, and why we live as long as we do, I have invariably ended up asking them something along the lines of

"Who do you think will have lived a better life: Someone who lives to 30 years old, but has helped people and been kind and giving, or someone who lives to 200 years and is mean and nasty, and selfish?"

But conversely I guess if your polarisation is STS, having 200 years to perfect selfishness would be an advantage...

 

[lilies]

The biggest technical problem I see about extending lifespans is the general low receivership capability of the human brain / psyche at the moment. Authoritarian followers living until 800? What would that make? A zombie planet filled by them shambling around for centuries wearing their masks and getting their 1000th booster? Cheneys and Kissingers living beyond 1000 committing more and more war crimes?

I doubt our quickly numbing psyches constantly clinging to old habits and old stuff, loving old classics would ever wanna be able to cope with the almost completely BS new musics and fashions.. Think about it. Entire value systems ingrained in the first 70-100 years of life, childhood experiences engraved in the first 16.

Think about PTSD, grievous psychological trauma experienced and well remaining - probably untreatable in the Superbowl children (or similar groups), now living beyond 100..

Even with the current age limit (80-100 years), the brain is our most fuel hungry organ: gobbles up 20%+ of daily energy intake and 50% glucose in your body. And we are said to be using an activated theoretical maximum of 10% of our brain currently.. We would probably need new neural mass activation steadily, in increments and some way to access those new 20%..70% of our brain capacities as we super-age well beyond 100+.
Otherwise with our current limits of learning entirely different PhDs and limits on our willingness to learn new languages and professions in old age.. Without brain-capacity increase, I don't see it.

God forbid a life extending beyond 180+ or 400+ or imagine the original hypothetical human life expectancy of 800~1200 years would be restored.

How would you be able to properly remain conscious and maintain a Will, the willingness to go on and store new information as hundreds of years repeatedly pass by??

Boredom and becoming numb to new things.

Maybe if I suddenly get young eyes and a young heart, plus a rejuvenated body. I might be able to become a voracious learner as I suddenly would see all the small type letters clearly again! If in young adulthood the ageing process could be stopped, and our eyes and hearts and joints would never deteriorate..

Currently our brain's data storage and retrieval capability is disastrous regards accessing all knowledge at once we learned during our career. Especially if we consider extremely complex mathematical models / theories of physics, etc.. Gurdjieff was talking about this, knowing all at once what we have learned in our lives.

How would you collate?:
Expanded life should mean we should gain the ability to store large amounts of brand new data. Alongside our existing PhDs. Soo.. how exactly do you plan to collate / compare / analyze all that new and old information? Even if our current concentration and focus abilities would increase with erasing the Lizzie induced DNA locks.. That would mean becoming geniuses, but a genius is said to be dangerously close to crazy, so many would probably go insane..

Who would wanna live and suffer and fight and continue to make super-efforts after more than 100 years on this prison planet?

With a new body maybe.. But this thread's topic is stopping ageing, not suddenly gaining back all the powers the Lizards have taken from us.

I don't think even with erasing aging I would want to remain in 3rd Density beyond 80 years.

Goals with an increased lifespan could be:
Regards the theory of Evolution, the only thing I perceived being capable of evolution is the spirit.
Increase of Being. Working on ourselves. Revisiting the past. Life reviews. The mind appears to respond to mental "body-building" efforts. New meditation techniques. Extended meditation times. Learning new spiritual techniques. Learning from our mistakes. Improving daily life-logistics. Learning new jobs. Gathering experience.. I dunno.

Naah.. I think, even with the promise of all above, old souls have lots of unerasable burden.

I think, as we came back from 4thD to improve things in a Re-Run - some of us have / had a quite extensive 4th Density experience already and as a consequence: 4thD-fatique. In addition with most of us being quite fed up with 3rdD too.. :D
C's repeatedly stated massive wars in 4thD. Then me constantly referring to reverting to doing "military" stuff. I might have been a 4thD grunt, burned out. Then reading about how 5thD is essentially a 'working-on-the-self' Work environment, according to Owen.. Err.. yeah. No, thanks!

There is a thing called reincarnation-fatigue, I think, for old souls. The promise of a "new life" diminishing with each incarnation.

I don't know.. I'm pretty banged up with frustration. Like how veterans burn out. How a hoe loses edge after being used up on the fields too much due to metal distress. Sharpening a hoe uses up available metal, so the hoe reduces and reduces with each sharpening, did you notice?

During the Romance Book Reading Exercise there was talk about accessing ancestral information. I might have glimpsed into some deep well of tribal ancestral memory - the experience was quite visual. What I saw was a dim, gray, flat sand ocean floor extending into infinity, lit by an otherworldly, "Twilight Zone"-light. The entire ocean floor was covered by black pebbles neatly placed at equal distances, the pebbles representing incarnations... this vast field of pebbles reaching into the horizon.. of the deep ocean floor.
Its just.. those couldn't have been my past lives, as there were way too many past lives there for one soul to experience! This could have been only be possible via a shared-tribal-memory. If I saw a massive collection of ancestral past-lives there..

Then there is the concept of Wanderers. Me constantly emphasizing this when talking about our present Universe.. Then Ra spoke about certain individuals coming to this world with system-hacking in mind. (Hacking is my second name)

For an another 40 or maybe 100+ years at a maximum here in 3rdD, in a suddenly rejuvenated spring-chicken body.. :) Maybe.. but I have doubts. I'm rather leaning toward not incarnating into 3rdD ever again. Then.., go where? Back to 4thD military service? To experience that infinite cycle of the 'Hell of Forever Wars' all over again?
Then the chief problem for Kantekkians: How to resolve karma?
Yeah..

 

[fabric]

Possible, but unlikely. As I said, I see nothing intrinsically magnanimous about the current situation. My intent would be to restore the human organism back to its original design parameters, not create some kind of immortal being.

Yes, I think there’s a distinction to be made here vs aging and being “immortal”. They are not necessarily the same thing. The most important distinction is that one can live their life until the end while still having their physical and mental faculties in good shape. That’s not a bad deal, imo.

Whether you live to 100 or 1000, I don’t think it should really change the fact that you’d still likely want to live day by day and operate under the assumption that one never knows when they’ll suddenly be hit by a bus (could be tomorrow!) and find themselves in 5d.

Here’s another thought experiment - what if by simply doing the work, incorporating all the healthy things to improve one’s life and keep the mental and physical in tip top shape they inadvertently end up living 300 years? If you had known this would happen would you stop? Yes, you might say “well the intent wasn’t to live forever” but you are still in the same situation essentially: still alive, functioning optimally and well, still “stuck” on Earth…

An aside: I am tempted to qualify it as shithole Earth but that’s a wrong assumption. I have no idea (and neither does anyone else) what Earth will be like in 300 years – or even 100 (consider that anyone alive in 1922 would have never seen 2022 coming). Sure, one can guess but the future is variable and all that. Who knows, it could be 4d Earth one finds themself in! (ok, maybe that’s a bit too optimistic)

I do think there is a qualitative difference between ‘stop aging quick’ (like irradiating cells) and putting effort into slowing/reversing aging by helping the body’s natural processes. A lot of this is covered quite well now by guys like Sinclair and Huberman (this Huberman link is worth a watch if you are interested in understanding where the latest research is at and why we age in the first place). Key ingredients are – Diet (food choices, intermittent fasting), Exercise, Sleep and Supplementation (in particular NAD boosters such as NR, NMN, Resevatrol and, interestingly, metformin). All those at this point have a good amount of research to back up the claims and the effect on aging they have. Then there’s other therapies, like HBOT which also hint at its effect on the aging process.

The biggest “drawback” – they actually require work to implement rather than getting zapped/irradiated or some DNA modifying injection. Most likely that is where it would eventually fail because you’d run afoul of a cardinal rule in this reality: there is no free lunch.

Like Neil mentions, it really comes down to the context and intent behind what one is trying to do with these technologies and the latest research. But just because the bad guys are going to take shortcuts doesn’t mean one can’t work to optimize their health and lifespan. Work being the key word here, which to me seems like the more STO way to achieve one’s aims and perhaps level the playing field (yea, I'm stretching here but )

Not that I’m trying to live forever but if I need to stick around for a really long time because there’s still a fight to be had then, I’m in.

 

[Ruth]

Imagine being born long ago, let's say the year 1620 as an example, think of all the things that have happened just since then - wars, nation/empire founding and elimination, borders changing, people migrating wherever, technological evolution, natural disasters, etc. - how does a person adapt through all of that? And would anyone really want to?

If a person lived that long, they would have to hide it from others and keep a very low profile. Otherwise it would make people curious and that would be a problem.

 

[Ruth]

So it seems to me that an extended lifetime would have to be matched with an appropriately structured world. It sure would be nice to have access to such a world, where people of knowledge and being could associate with, and learn from, each other.

But we already have and we already do. It's just that our 'connection' or understanding of it isn't very good at times.

 

[Anthony]

I remembered that Damasio has a short chapter in his book Strange Order of Things on the transhumanist desire for immortality. In short, he thinks it's a pipe dream for now. Since human consciousness is embodied it's not clear what they plan to transfer to a machine.

None of this is likely to pass anytime soon, though not for lack of trying by venerable futurists and visionaries. For example, the key idea behind transhumanism is the notion that the human mind can be “downloaded” into a computer, thus guaranteeing its eternal life. At the moment, this is an implausible scenario. It reveals a limited notion of what life really is and also betrays a lack of understanding of the conditions under which real humans construct mental experiences. What the transhumanists would actually be downloading is still a mystery. Not their mental experiences, for certain, at least not if these mental experiences conform to the account most humans would give of their conscious minds and that require the devices and mechanisms I described earlier. One of the key ideas in this book is that minds arise from interactions of bodies and brains, not from brains alone. Are transhumanists planning to download the body, too?
I am open to bold scenarios for the future, and I tend to lament failures of scientific imagination, but I cannot really picture the follow-up to this idea. The essence of the problem is perhaps best explained by indicating why there are clear limits to the application of the notions of code and algorithm—two foundational concepts in computational science and artificial intelligence—to living systems, an issue to which I now turn.

 

[Z...]

If people can live indefinitely then what happens when the planet becomes overpopulated? Babies upon babies upon babies until what? A cleansing sacrifice some to make room? Automatic extermination of the weak or disabled? One shudders at the thought.
Have you seen the movie where they won the lottery to go to the last safe haven on Earth? (The Island with Ewan McGregor) Without spoilers it could be something like that...

Oh don’t you worry about that - the jab has taken care of it - mostly

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[SOTTREADER]

Do we really ever die and do we have a choice in the matter?

I fear most of losing loved ones as I am not sure I will ever see them again or if we would merely be strangers were we to meet in the after life - should such a place exist . As to oneself dying, I accept it will happen but I see it more as a changing of experience - from one place to another, one form to another.

Do I fear getting old (and wrinkly, and ill). I think to get old and wrinkly means you've done well to live so long when many die young and unexpectedly. My ideal would not to live too long - tapping out somewhere between 75 years old to 85 years old I'd consider good going and I'm not sure this will be achievable given the state of the world. I'm not sure I'd have much strength for increased years - life takes its toll and one needs to incorporate the totality of their existence into their Being before giving it another go, perhaps more wiser.

It is unfortunate we become frail when we get old but in creation it feels there must be contrast and things can't maintain the same state forever. Whether in 70 years or 500 years, the day will come when you will get old - if you've done well to stay alive that long, an achievement surely. I believe the question is what kind of life did you live and are you living in your twilight years. It is a cliché but it is what we do with the time we have that counts. For most (the majority) we don't even know what time we have.

The world is crazy but it was crazy before we got here and no doubt it'll be crazy long after we are gone. We talk about humanities golden age - which one? I'd hazard a guess they number a lot and look quite different one from the next.

 

[SlipNet]

I'd like an extended lifespan, but it would have to be commensurate with a more durable body in relation. It would transform the human consciousness within a few generations, it would be amazing. I had lost all my grandparents by the age of 16, so I had many sad funeral experiences at a relatively young age. I was also part of a lapsed Catholic family, yet never lost my belief in that ineffable "something" that us agnostics so often fall back on. I mean, there's gotta be something, right? It's not just gonna all go black and then it's goodnight Vienna? No, there is more. I struggle with the concept of God, but in reading about the C's over the years, along with the idea put forward of a DCM, I slowly began to build my faith again, albeit in a more sophisticated and nuanced way. Reading William Blake's "The Marriage of Heaven and Hell" was also edifying and revelatory. it's an epic, free-form poem, and I heartily recommend it.

For me the subject of the soul is a sure thing. I've been convinced of the reality of the soul for a good 37 years, ever since I had an out of body experience in my childhood. We are not our bodies, they are just our physical vehicles for our experiences and adventures. I have no doubts whatsoever on this. It was a mind blowing experience, changed me forever when I first came to terms with it in my journal writing. We are souls who have bodies, not bodies who have souls. An important distinction to make I think. In time I recalled the experience in visual terms, and I recalled just floating in the air up by my ceiling, looking down at my sleeping body in amazement and wonder! Hands down a pivotal moment in my life, eventually when I began to understand things better, it changed me. Now I look through my eyes, not with them.

 

[SOTTREADER]

Interesting - one of the things that I'm getting from this is length of telemeres doesn't necessarily translate to age or length of life.