Air France Flight 447 Disappears?

Joe

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Seems that something really unusual occurred to cause this. The chances of a single smallish meteorite hitting a moving plane are pretty remote, but imagine a Tunguska-like event over that area of the Atlantic, maybe covering an area of several thousand sq. km.....


Rescuers seek Air France jet; still no answers

By BRADLEY BROOKS – 6 hours ago

RIO DE JANEIRO (AP) — Searchers raced against the clock Tuesday to find wreckage of Air France Flight 447, which disappeared in the Atlantic Ocean with 228 people aboard. French investigators said a series of extraordinary events likely brought the airliner down.

Rescuers scanning deep waters in a vast zone extending far off northeast Brazil toward West Africa have not turned up confirmed signs of the plane, or any survivors. The 4-year-old Airbus jet was last heard from at 0214 GMT Monday en route from Rio de Janeiro to Paris.

Investigators on both sides of the ocean worked through the night to determine what brought it down — wind and hail from towering thunderheads, lightning, or a catastrophic combination of factors.

The French government minister overseeing transportation, Jean-Louis Borloo, said French police were studying passenger lists.

He also said officials "do not believe that a simple bolt of lightning, something relatively classic in aviation, could have caused the loss of the craft."

"There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation," Borloo said on RTL radio Tuesday.
 

domivr

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Perceval said:
Seems that something really unusual occurred to cause this. The chances of a single smallish meteorite hitting a moving plane are pretty remote, but imagine a Tunguska-like event over that area of the Atlantic, maybe covering an area of several thousand sq. km.....
Good hypothesis.
The EM (Electro Magnetic) pulse that goes along with such an event could very well have fried some of the electrical systems of the plane. Although (according to the reporting) the plane did broadcast automatically that systems were failing.

The first thing that came to mind when I heard about the disappearance was "who was on that plane?". So many people have had plane related "accidents" in the last decade that it seems plausible a plane could be "shot down" over the ocean - with no witnesses.
 

Joe

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Well, one thing for sure is that while there is apparently no radar coverage over that area, a satellite would likely have caught it if something strange occurred. Of course, the chances of that data ever being released is non existent.
 

Kasimir

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

My quess is that some kind of strange nightly weather phenomena suddenly took the plane down when it was flying over equator.
 

Vulcan59

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Well, seems like a limited passenger list (with some names) is now available here but I am not sure how accurate it is.
 

RedFox

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Hi Perceval

I'd like to add what may be a clue to this that I posted on the sunday night involving a very bright flash (point) of light in the sky. I did also wonder if it had involved an EM pulse given what I'd seen the night before.....

http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=12516.0

RedFox said:
Well I wasn't sure if this was significant or not, but given time is getting "short" I thought it worth reporting.
In the southern sky at about 10.15pm, at roughly an angle of 30 degrees me and my girlfriend saw (whilst I was driving) a bright flash of light in the sky.
She described it as a blue white flash/ball of light. I saw it and at first thought it was a plane flashing, but it flashed once and was (in retrospect as my eyes where on the road) 100 times brighter than a plane. I asked everyone in the car to look for any other flashes for the rest of the journey, and nothing was seen.

My suspicion (and given I've only ever read about it but not seen it) was that it could have been a high altitude (fortunately!) cometry explosion.........which is really quite worrying but following the signs not supprising. My question is do you think it was a high altitude cometry explosion, or am I being overly paranoid??
I looked up a world clock/time zone map _http://www.worldtimezone.com/

If I saw the flash at roughly 10.15pm (GMT), and the plane was last heard of at 02.14am (GMT) the next day, assuming it was comets the coming in a line at one point, the rotation of the earth may match up with the move from the UK to mid Atlantic.
Does GMT -4 match the right area?

Something I just discovered looking for signs of an EMP (added bold and GMT)
_http://www.balidiscovery.com/messages/message.asp?Id=5275

Bali Blackout
Failure of Jawa-Bali Power Grid Causes Island-Wide Black Out on Sunday, May 31, 2009.

Bali News: Bali Blackout
(6/1/2009) Almost the entire island of Bali experienced a black out on Sunday, May 31, 2009 due to a failure in the Java-Bali inter-connection.

Bali Post reports that all the regional capitals and municipalities of Bali when dark shortly before 6 p.m.[10am GTM]. As a result, stores closed and cries of anguish poured forth from Internet Cafes as people lost unsaved data and files. Guests in large hotels and restaurants, many of which are equipped with back-up generator sets, were not aware of the darkness than enveloped the rest of the island.

The Public Affairs officer of the Bali Electrical Board (PLN), Agung Mustika, told the Bali Post that at 5:52 p.m[9.52am GTM]. the East Java transmission line between Banyuwangi and Situbondo failed causing an immediate overload on the Banyuwangi-Jember inter-island connection.

At the time of system breakdown Bali was consuming a total 410 megawatts. Efforts to absorb this power loading by the Gilimanuk power station (130 MW), Pesanggaran (110 MW) and Pemaron (80MW) proved insufficient to meet all the island's power requirements. By 6:18 p.m. the Jawa-Bali interconnection system began to gradually redress the power shortfalls but fell victim to an additional failure of the Banyuwangi-Jember transmission line that occurred at 7:59 p.m[11:59am GMT].. Efforts by PLN continued with power being gradually restored to all areas of the island by approximately 9 p.m..
10 hours after the second failure I saw the flash over the UK (possibly located above France?), 4 hours later the plane had an electrical failure. Although my idea about the rotation of the earth doesn't quite match the timing between the blackout and my signting (its out by 2-3 hours), it does seem to match the plane.
Are there any other clues to a large bombardment on May 31st (May 30th-June 1st)??
Close enough for horse shoes, or pure coincidence??
 

Erna

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

[quote author=Perceval]
Seems that something really unusual occurred to cause this.
[/quote]

Why Perceval? Because Airbus can't afford admit technical failure of any kind?

[quote author=Perceval]
The chances of a single smallish meteorite hitting a moving plane are pretty remote, but imagine a Tunguska-like event over that area of the Atlantic, maybe covering an area of several thousand sq. km
[/quote]

Anything's possible, but I think you are contemplating the most unlikely scenario...

[quote author=Borloo]
"There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation"
[/quote]

Of course they would say this. Do you think they would admit technical failure?

They know how damaging this is to the Airbus reputation, so an "extraordinary event" must have brought the plane down... :rolleyes:

[quote author=Perceval]
a satellite would likely have caught it if something strange occurred
[/quote]

How many planes are airborne simultaneously? Are they all tracked by satellite? Even if a satellite picked up the demise of the aircraft, the airbus reputation comes first.

My brother is a flight engineer. You wouldn't fly if you knew how much can go wrong.

The Titanic sank in 1912, and they discovered the wreck in 1985 at approximately 2.5 miles below the surface. The Atlantic is a big, deep place.

Again, anything's possible, but first smell smoke before you look for fire...like a politician on board...
 

Snow

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

E said:
[quote author=Perceval]
Seems that something really unusual occurred to cause this.
Why Perceval? Because Airbus can't afford admit technical failure of any kind?

[quote author=Perceval]
The chances of a single smallish meteorite hitting a moving plane are pretty remote, but imagine a Tunguska-like event over that area of the Atlantic, maybe covering an area of several thousand sq. km
[/quote]

Anything's possible, but I think you are contemplating the most unlikely scenario...

[quote author=Borloo]
"There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation"
[/quote]

Of course they would say this. Do you think they would admit technical failure?

They know how damaging this is to the Airbus reputation, so an "extraordinary event" must have brought the plane down... :rolleyes:

[quote author=Perceval]
a satellite would likely have caught it if something strange occurred
[/quote]

How many planes are airborne simultaneously? Are they all tracked by satellite? Even if a satellite picked up the demise of the aircraft, the airbus reputation comes first.

My brother is a flight engineer. You wouldn't fly if you knew how much can go wrong.

The Titanic sank in 1912, and they discovered the wreck in 1985 at approximately 2.5 miles below the surface. The Atlantic is a big, deep place.

Again, anything's possible, but first smell smoke before you look for fire...like a politician on board...
[/quote]

True, but, unless there's more solid data, it could go either way: an extra ordinary event (like a meteorite impact) or the most straight forward: mechanical failure.

According to the radio news I heard this morning, the plane was taken into service in 2005, so a very young plane and secondly, it had its maintenance last April and everything was ok. I do not think it's lightning, because planes are tested for this and act as a cage of Faraday.

Keeping the above information in mind and the fact that there are alot more meteor sightings / impacts (and ufo sightnings for that matter), I personally tend to believe the extra ordinary scenario.

As a side note: according to an expert on the radio, planes are not actively tracked by satellite, rather they report themselves at intervals telling the control tower, where they are and towards what point they are flying.

(edit: minor typo)
 

Laura

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Considering the strange events of the past couple of years, the increasing number of fireballs and meteorites, added to the Cs remark that this was going to be a "smashing year," I actually think the "Tunguska like event" is definitely on the table. That would explain 1) the electrical anomaly 2) the fact that there was NO voice contact from that instant forward.

One must ask: what could affect a plane in that way - mess with the electrical system and then bring on sudden and total destruction so that not a single word was uttered via radio?
 

Vulcan59

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

After some searching, I came across what I consider to be the best analysis so far with the available data here.

The flight plan together with the weather data and charts can be viewed at the above website. Do also read the comments section at the bottom where some very good points are brought up, like positive lightning.
 
Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Laura said:
Considering the strange events of the past couple of years, the increasing number of fireballs and meteorites, added to the Cs remark that this was going to be a "smashing year," I actually think the "Tunguska like event" is definitely on the table. That would explain 1) the electrical anomaly 2) the fact that there was NO voice contact from that instant forward.

One must ask: what could affect a plane in that way - mess with the electrical system and then bring on sudden and total destruction so that not a single word was uttered via radio?
Maybe it is more target practice and possibly a message to France to keep Allegre out of any ministerial positions with his outspoken position that global warming is a pack of lies. They have to keep the illusion going as long as possible so they can get the population reduction plans in place and executed. I have always thought Sarkozy was already one of the chosen, but the Allegre thing makes no sense.
 

Laura

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Xman said:
Laura said:
One must ask: what could affect a plane in that way - mess with the electrical system and then bring on sudden and total destruction so that not a single word was uttered via radio?
Maybe it is more target practice and possibly a message to France to keep Allegre out of any ministerial positions with his outspoken position that global warming is a pack of lies. They have to keep the illusion going as long as possible so they can get the population reduction plans in place and executed. I have always thought Sarkozy was already one of the chosen, but the Allegre thing makes no sense.
Yeah, that's another good one to keep on the table. And we should keep in mind that Air France has dared to sue the U.S. for costs relating to this event: U.S. diverts Air France plane: Passenger was a journalist critical of U.S. Foreign Policy

The above linked weather analysis includes a comment:

The debris field causes me great distress. To have debris in any body of water, it tends to stay close (say less than one mile). This debris field has been reported to be over 35 miles (see link provided). My curiousness has kicked into major overdrive here - something happened in flight and not at water level. I am not an alarmist, just the facts cause me to conclude this happened at a very high flight level - not at sea level.
What bothers me is that there was NO radio communication indicating a problem which would have been the case if the plane was in trouble during a descent from 35,000 feet... as the above commentor noted, the debris field indicates that something catastrophic happened way UP there... which would be consistent with an upper atmospheric cometary explosion of the Tunguska type (only way higher) which, as the experts tell us, is a lot more common than most people suspect even during times when we may not be entering major debris streams as may be the case at present according to some (Clube et al).

So, looks like we still have to answer the question: what could destroy a plane suddenly and completely, at a high altitude?

Yeah, it could be "target practice" ...
 

Joe

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

[quote author=Perceval]
Seems that something really unusual occurred to cause this.
[/quote]

[quote author=Borloo]Why Perceval? Because Airbus can't afford admit technical failure of any kind?[/quote]

No, because it was mentioned in the news report I posted: "There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation". That sounds reasonable because planes do not fall out of the sky every day, very seldom in fact. So for a new plane to suddenly and catastrophically fail would require by definition, a series of extraordinary events.

[quote author=Perceval]
The chances of a single smallish meteorite hitting a moving plane are pretty remote, but imagine a Tunguska-like event over that area of the Atlantic, maybe covering an area of several thousand sq. km
[/quote]

[quote author=Borloo]Anything's possible, but I think you are contemplating the most unlikely scenario...[/quote]

Well considering the prevalence of meteorites these days, I don't think it's the most unlikely. And if you add in the fact that there was no mayday transmission and the debris is spread very wide, I think we can say that an extraordinary event or series of them is quite possible.

[quote author=Borloo]
"There really had to be a succession of extraordinary events to be able to explain this situation"

Of course they would say this. Do you think they would admit technical failure?

They know how damaging this is to the Airbus reputation, so an "extraordinary event" must have brought the plane down... :rolleyes:[/quote]

In other plane crashes authorities have not balked at admitting technical failures. Like the recent Madrid crash.

[quote author=Perceval]
a satellite would likely have caught it if something strange occurred
[/quote]

[quote author=Borloo]How many planes are airborne simultaneously? Are they all tracked by satellite? [/quote]

Not actively tracked, but the whole planet is covered by satellites.

[quote author=Borloo]Even if a satellite picked up the demise of the aircraft, the airbus reputation comes first.[/quote]

That's a possibility, but like I said, authorities have not denied technical faults in other crashes.

[quote author=Borloo]My brother is a flight engineer. You wouldn't fly if you knew how much can go wrong. [/quote]

I don't doubt it. But flying is still safer than travelling by car.

[quote author=Borloo]The Titanic sank in 1912, and they discovered the wreck in 1985 at approximately 2.5 miles below the surface. The Atlantic is a big, deep place. [/quote]

I don't see what that has to do with anything.

[quote author=Borloo]Again, anything's possible, but first smell smoke before you look for fire...like a politician on board...
[/quote]

Yeah, looked for that, at first glance there doesn't seem to be anything that would warrant the "taking out" of the plane.
 

Laura

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Re: Air France Plane Goes Down Over Atlantic

Some more input:

Air France mystery finds possible clue in Qantas near-miss

A recent near-fatal incident involving a similar Airbus A330 could provide clues as to the cause of the Air France crash.

Last October, a Qantas A330 plunged 650 feet in a few seconds after a computer malfunction which was possibly triggered by electrical interference.

More than 50 people were injured in the incident which happened suddenly at 37,000 feet over Western Australia.

The air data computer, which is supposed to correct mistakes by the pilot, sent the A330 into a very steep dive. The computer mistakenly thought that the pilot was trying to climb too fast.

In fact the aircraft was level and cruising normally.

The pilot managed to regain control and pull out of the dive but not before all those not strapped in had been thrown around the aircraft.

One theory being investigated is that signals from a nearby military communication station interfered with the air data computer.

Jim Morris, senior solicitor at Stewarts Law, the aviation law firm which is representing 30 people injured in the Qantas incident, said: "Electrical systems on aircraft are designed to withstand lightning strikes. But it appears that the air data inertial reference unit on the A330 is more susceptible than it should be to electro-magnetic interference."


From: Update: Ocean search finds plane debris

"Our only certainty is that the plane did not send out any distress call but regular automatic alerts for three minutes indicating the failure of all systems," he said.

Experts remain puzzled that there were no radio reports from the Airbus and they say that such a modern aircraft would have had to suffer multiple traumas to plunge into the sea, the BBC's Adam Mynott reports from Paris.
 
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