Amanda Knox - guilty or innocent?

[daveOS]

Female Psychopath: Knox gets 26 years for sex murder of student

I don’t know, maybe Amanda Knox is a psychopath but there do appear to be a lot of holes in the sex game story. It’s on the record that Knox was put under questioning for 30 hours without legal counsel that reportedly was a non-stop torment. It’s from this abusive inquisition that the prosecutor Giuliano Mignini came up with the sex game theory that DNA doesn’t completely support and knife wounds are inconsistent with. Given the abuse of office charges PM Mignini has recently been facing in Italy I wonder if he’s not the real psychopath driving this international drama.

This blog review of the book “The Monster of Florence” explains ‘The Mignini technique’ of interviewing suspects that the book’s author experienced first-hand himself :

1. An hour of genteel questioning
2. Abrupt shift into a dark, accusatory tone
3. Loud interruptions. Angry speeches
4. Repeating questions over and over, phrased in different ways and different forms.
5. Frequent reading back of previous answers. You said THIS. Now you say THAT.
6. Sudden introduction of a wiretapped phone call.
7. Constant replaying of that conversation. A demand to explain every single word.
8. Sudden accusations of guilt.

Meredith Kercher case: Insights from “The Monster of Florence”
http://blog.seattlepi.com/dempsey/archives/140460.asp

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I think it's an interesting point, however, reading her speech to the court yesterday, it was riddled with pathological flavor.

The fact that she kept posing questions of 'why would I' and 'How could I' and 'it's not like me' sort of things just popped up red flags all over the place. The issue is that statements like that put the onus on the listener to figure out what is going on or to figure out her motivations - they're the words of someone who assumes her listener is not like her, thus they will 'critically correct' and answer those questions with 'you wouldn't'. It's just a very telling way to speak, especially in that situation.

Also, the fact that her largest stated concerned is that she would be 'fitted with the mask' of a murderer, or have the reputation of a murder is really telling. If you think about it, it's just a really odd thing to say. She's not concerned that she is a murderer, but that she'll be thought of as a murderer?

It's just odd. All in all, I'm leaning, strongly, toward the idea that she is a female psychopath - of course, I could be off and maybe she was railroaded...

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I agree Knox’s behavior and language demonstrate some sort of disconnect, and initially I bought the femme fatale fantasy that Mignini concocted, but as additional information has come to light there’s been too much information that’s given me the impression Mignini has sensationalized the whole thing and the international press jumped on for the ride resulting in a theater of mass distraction that coincides conveniently with pathocrat processes we’ve been watching unfold.

According to the Mignini “sex game” fantasy, Rudy Guede is having his way with Kercher while Sollecito is holding Kercher at her mid section and Knox holds a knife to her throat taunting her. According to Mignini the perpetrators all got motivated to get into this predicament by reading manga comics and smoking marijuana, although it’s completely obscure how Kercher would allow it to get that far given her apparent disdain for Knox’s ways. Mignini offers a motive that Knox brought a special resentment into the situation because she felt threatened that Kercher didn’t like her dildo, and Sollecito wanted to bed Knox really bad.

Mignini comes up with all this after Guede has been convicted and the Italians have been holding Knox and Sollecito forever for no clear cause and it starts coming out that Knox and was subjected to an isolated aggressive 30-hour interrogation (from which originate the alleged inconsistencies in their alibi).

The DNA evidence that Rudy Guede did the rape is conclusive. The questionable DNA evidence that Sollecito and Knox were involved is inconclusive because the prosecution prohibited the defense from presenting their DNA evidence. Additionally the knife wounds to Kercher are apparently inconsistent with the knife the prosecution claims was used.

Rudy Guede fled to Germany after the murder on the basis that he was sitting on the toilet after consensual sex when he heard a scream and exited the bathroom to find an Italian woman who he did not know stabbing Kercher that told him “You’re in trouble, you black bastard”. Now appealing his conviction, Rudy has shifted to say it was Knox he saw, but there’s no explanation how he got on the toilet when he was supposed to be behind Kercher at the time Mignini alleges Knox digs the knife into Kercher’s throat.

My take of the situation now is that obliviously spoiled American girl sowing wild oats in conservative Italian town who’s housemate is raped and murdered was just too ripe a predicament for a sociopath prosecutor to pass up while under investigation himself with all his keepers in motion moving final pieces into place for global economic collapse. Once he incorporated all the sex game details (his keepers actually practice) that would prove so instinctually distracting to the masses, plus load the story with vilification of marijuana, and meanwhile protect the interrogation machinery, his deceptive directors rubber stamped it and now they’ve just ratified the PR stunt for another several years of appeals.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Foxy Knoxy "a Victim of Anti-American Trial' as Campaigners Urge Hillary Clinton to Launch Investigation

I appreciate this SOTT find and the extensive detail it provides about Rudy Gude’s previous endeavors and track record. According to the Wikipedia under “The Murder of Meredith Kercher”
[quote author=wikipedia]
Rudy Hermann Guede, then aged 20, originally from the Ivory Coast, was arrested on November 20 for suspected involvement in the Kercher killing. He was subsequently convicted of murder and sentenced to 30 years.
Guede came to Perugia at the age of five with his father,[59] Pacome Roger Guede.[60] His father left Italy when Guede was 16, and he was informally adopted by the family of a wealthy local businessman, Paolo Caporali.[59] Caporali stated that he had been disappointed by Guede's behaviour, describing him as a "tremendous liar", skipping school and being reluctant to do any work.[59] Guede played basketball for the local team which Caporali sponsored.[59]
DNA tests indicate that Guede had sex with Kercher before her murder[61] and that faeces found in the toilet were his.
[/quote]

It’s curious to find that so many of Rudy’s previous transgressions went unchecked in light of the benefactors affording Rudy’s stay in Perugia.

The Seattle Times has reported Clinton hasn’t looked into the Knox case and then there are a slew of comments asking why in the world Clinton should bother looking at the case closed truth that a naive white-bred college kid got all fired up on hashish and manga comics to carry out a sex game turned satanic ritual that resulted in the rape-murder of her semester abroad housemate. Yeah why would Clinton want to poke at such a petty invention of an Italian prosecutor when she has much bigger lies to attend to!?

Oh, and for the record the moniker Foxy Knoxy comes from Knox’s own website and apparently was a title bestowed by her soccer girl friends for her prowess on the field. But I have to admit the Mail article’s take that it was “for her string of boyfriends in Perugia” is much more tantalizing.

Talk about “lost in translation”.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

The Kercher Trial: Psychopath Amanda Knox Snared by Her Lust and Her Lies
Too bad Guede's various stories never sync'd with Mignini's sex game theories and the DNA evidence is incomplete or the above take could be believable. The article does do a good job of character assassination though short changes on the 'snared by lies' part. If justice has been served by a prosecutor's erotic imaginings based on a two day Italian speaking interrogation of an English speaking free spirited American girl without legal counsel then truth is truly relative.

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'm really interested in why you think she's innocent, Dave. The reason I ask is that when I read what she's said, when I read the evidence they do have, even when I look at her and her behavior throughout the trial and reported behavior after the murder, I see distinct psychopathic behavior.

I don't see a 'free spirited American girl'. So, I'm really quite interested in why you do.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'm not convinced she's innocent. I've been vacillating back and forth between "she's a psychopath", and 'no this is supreme exploitation of justice loaded with disinfo" throughout this last summer as details have unfolded. I do get the read you are getting of the language and behavior demonstrating psychopathic behavior, but I can't decide whether it's pure psychopathy or coerced characteropathy.

My biggest problem is with the lack of evidence supporting the Mignini theory and how the convicted rapist's story don't sync with it. I then add in the two day non-stop Italian speaking interrogation of an English speaking individual without legal counsel and without standard procedures of recording and the Mignini technique of interrogation which puts all the words in her mouth and things start not adding up.

Then I look at her behavior and responses and I see a lot of coerced characteropathy I'm trying to navigate on a daily basis all around me. After that I think of how psychopathy capitalizes on how the justice system burdens the innocent and uses tactics such as "how long is it since you stopped beating your mother?" to incriminate without evidence while focusing attention on a peripherally innocuous points, and I hear her responses and I hear an obliviously spoiled American girl completely out of her element and about to be (or being) eaten (as Laura would say).

Finally I add in that I've been on the receiving end of foreign retaliation for being American under the guise of false pretenses on more than one occasion somehow narrowly escaping severe consequences, and I start seeing psychopathic justice exercising blowback on American women capitalizing on the psychopathic rapist and all projecting on the coerced obliviously spoiled characteropath. And then everything starts stinking like raw bone.

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'm not convinced she's innocent. I've been vacillating back and forth between "she's a psychopath", and 'no this is supreme exploitation of justice loaded with disinfo" throughout this last summer as details have unfolded. I do get the read you are getting of the language and behavior demonstrating psychopathic behavior, but I can't decide whether it's pure psychopathy or coerced characteropathy.

I think I understand what you're getting at here.

My biggest problem is with the lack of evidence supporting the Mignini theory and how the convicted rapist's story don't sync with it. I then add in the two day non-stop Italian speaking interrogation of an English speaking individual without legal counsel and without standard procedures of recording and the Mignini technique of interrogation which puts all the words in her mouth and things start not adding up.

It was my understanding that the reason she was studying in Italy is because she spoke almost fluent Italian. She certainly is fluent now - and early in the trial she even addressed the court in Italian so I don't think the 'English speaking individual' really flies.

Then I look at her behavior and responses and I see a lot of coerced characteropathy

I don't think you can tell by her behavior if it is coerced characteropathy or not - not without knowing (in depth) what she was like before. All accounts of her behavior prior to this indicate she was hyper-sexual, charismatic, and evidencing a lack of consideration for others - all characteristics of strong pathology, though, again, without a fuller picture I can't know for certain.

So, I'm curious about why you would make a statement that you see 'coerced characteropathy' - how do you define that and upon what data is it based?

I'm trying to navigate on a daily basis all around me. After that I think of how psychopathy capitalizes on how the justice system burdens the innocent and uses tactics such as "how long is it since you stopped beating your mother?" to incriminate without evidence while focusing attention on a peripherally innocuous points, and I hear her responses and I hear an obliviously spoiled American girl completely out of her element and about to be (or being) eaten (as Laura would say).

I think you might be Critically Correcting her behavior. If she were male would you, perhaps, be seeing this differently?

Finally I add in that I've been on the receiving end of foreign retaliation for being American under the guise of false pretenses on more than one occasion somehow narrowly escaping severe consequences, and I start seeing psychopathic justice exercising blowback on American women capitalizing on the psychopathic rapist and all projecting on the coerced obliviously spoiled characteropath. And then everything starts stinking like raw bone.

Ah, so it's possible you are also projecting? She is from Seattle as well, so could that be part of it?

I'm just curious because you seem to feel pretty strongly about it, so thanks for clarifying your viewpoint on that!

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Thanks for the exploration anart. Your tagline frequently reminds me I’m projecting and I am trying to sift what’s real here. But consensus seizing on the titillating fantasy proffered by Mignini doesn’t smell right to me.

Yes, this would be a different situation to ponder if it were a male involved but I think if it was clear that another man’s DNA was confirmed in the victim, and the guilt by association was a result of an off-the-record non-stop translated interrogation by a prosecutor who’s known to distract huge sums of public resources pursuing fantastical theories, then I think I’d be questioning this verdict just the same. Especially in light of how long the alleged accomplices were gagged in custody without charges before the sex game fantasy was offered as motive.

“Coerced charateropathy” is a phrase that occurred to me reading “Political Ponerology”. The Cassiopedia has this section on the acquired deviations of Charateropathies.

On any given individual I encounter I can’t qualify the brain lesions Lobaczewski informs us give rise to the aberrant behaviors that mimic psychopathy. However the book made clear to me that I'm living amidst a psychologically diseased society that has given rise to clown figures such as Hitler that are leading the political system. So in the absence of clinical validation that any given indvidual I'm interacting with is a psychopath or a charateropath, it occured to me that I could be relatively confident that everybody is exhibiting a degree of psychopathic coercion and so the label "coerced characteropath" became a frame of reference for me to reorient around to better understand how to relate to the majority members of the societal structure I'm interacting with.

I’m also curious why I feel strongly about the verdict. This unfolding of “justice” is one that I’ve resented looking at ever since it arose. Yes I think being a Seattleite somehow figures in, but of all my interests I'm infinitely more keen to think about and all the things I have to deal with this news item is an irritating pimple I’d prefer to ignore. I think the compulsion to examine it has more to do with my dawning awareness that “by way of deception, thou shalt do war” permeates more aspects of “justice” practiced today than I ever realized and that I’ve somehow got to reconcile to that.

I think I’m critically qualifying her behavior. As it seems to me now this whole justice PR stunt effectively:

1) Protects torturous interrogative process
2) Diverts public resources
3) Instinctually distracts global collective consciousness
4) Conveys confidence in justice system
5) Validates anti American expression
6) Vilifies marijuana
7) Obscures justice

Those features and benefits sound to me more like the qualifiers for expending the magnitude of resources this whole show is costing. Moreso than a psychopathic system bringing justice to a couple of petty psychopaths. Or maybe they did do the crime and those happen to be the dumb luck benefits the psychopathic system is destined to derive!?

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

“Coerced charateropathy” is a phrase that occurred to me reading “Political Ponerology”. The Cassiopedia has this section on the acquired deviations of Charateropathies.

Yes, I know the term characteropathy well, and am very familiar with Political Ponerology, which is why I asked you, basically, how you could know such a thing about Knox?

On any given individual I encounter I can’t qualify the brain lesions Lobaczewski informs us give rise to the aberrant behaviors that mimic psychopathy.

I'm not sure I follow this sentence - apologies - are you saying that you seek out evidence of characteropathy in people in general?

However the book made clear to me that I'm living amidst a psychologically diseased society that has given rise to clown figures such as Hitler that are leading the political system.

Yes, that's true.

So in the absence of clinical validation that any given indvidual I'm interacting with is a psychopath or a charateropath, it occured to me that I could be relatively confident that everybody is exhibiting a degree of psychopathic coercion and so the label "coerced characteropath" became a frame of reference for me to reorient around to better understand how to relate to the majority members of the societal structure I'm interacting with.

I see, but I'm afraid that term 'coerced characteropath' is inaccurate - though I do see the point you're trying to make. A better, more accurate, term, as defined in the book, would be 'Ponerized'. Normal people who display psychopathic behavior, are generally, Ponerized. Only a small percentage of the populace are characteropaths.

I’m also curious why I feel strongly about the verdict.

I think it might be beneficial to realize that anytime one feels so strongly about something, emotional programs are likely running.

This unfolding of “justice” is one that I’ve resented looking at ever since it arose.

Definitely sounds like a program running.

Yes I think being a Seattleite somehow figures in, but of all my interests I'm infinitely more keen to think about and all the things I have to deal with this news item is an irritating pimple I’d prefer to ignore. I think the compulsion to examine it has more to do with my dawning awareness that “by way of deception, thou shalt do war” permeates more aspects of “justice” practiced today than I ever realized and that I’ve somehow got to reconcile to that.

The justice system, globally, is wholly corrupt - it is ponerized. That, however, doesn't mean that Knox is innocent.

I think I’m critically qualifying her behavior.

Perhaps - and I agree that many of the statements made by the prosecution are ridiculous.

Those features and benefits sound to me more like the qualifiers for expending the magnitude of resources this whole show is costing. Moreso than a psychopathic system bringing justice to a couple of petty psychopaths. Or maybe they did do the crime and those happen to be the dumb luck benefits the psychopathic system is destined to derive!?

It's been my experience that people who display the characteristics that Knox has displayed in and around this trial, and those described prior to the murder, have a tendency to assume they will get away with anything because they always have. Perhaps it's a simple case of this time she didn't? As I said, I don't know for certain by any means, but it certainly appears that way at present.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?


If my emotional programs are critical for qualifying the merit of my thoughts here I can inform:
1) I detest torturous interrogation practices and detention under suspension of habeas corpus
2) I am maddened at and by psychopathic inventions of reality projected onto others
3) I resent foreign blowback on Americans
4) I am in turmoil rewiring my logic to comprehend ponerized processes and how deeply society is infected by them.

I am not missing Knox behavior patterns that demonstrate a disregard for humanity and self-absorbed propensity for exploitation of others. I resent those ways too, so we can add that to the list of emotional programs running.

Ultimately to me, when weighed against all that the ponerized machinery gains by driving this sensationalized case, the pathocracy's motivators outweigh the motives ascribed to the guilty by association.

Anyway, looks like we'll be treated to several years of appeals by all involved parties to gain further insight. There are definitely more important things to think about pressing, especially in light of today's memorial service for the four fallen officers of the Lakewood Police senselessly ambushed last week - 'gone but not forgotten'.

Thanks for the perspectives!

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I'm not convinced there's any interest in this topic, and my only presumption in posting further pertains to refining comprehension of psychopathy, so I hope who ever is not interested doesn't bother, but for some reason I'm cursed to keep coming across tidbits relevant to this context. This time with a keeper of the ol' Seattle Post Intelligencer flame (now web only) who parallels two tales of justice, Polanski and Knox.

Considering all the backwater web out there spelling out Polanski's likely psychopathic nature it does seem apropos to ponder Polanski camped out at his ski chalet fighting extradition in contrast to Knox in prison (effectively since first incarceration) awaiting an opportunity to appeal. The author of the above referenced link is stereotypically oblivious of the deep background on Polanski; pedophelia aside, there are some uncanny synchronicities between "Rosemary's Baby" the tragic loss of Sharon Tate and how suited Manson was for mind control experiments. Nevertheless, I think the author's contrasts of current status between Polanski and Knox distinguish the modern justice served to a pure psychopath versus a possible psychopath or narcissist receiving a lot of psychopathic projection.

I also meant to say thanks to anart for the clarifications on characteropathy. That word seems to still be getting on its feet!

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

Polanski didn't kill someone or take part in their murder (at least in the case for which he is currently under house arrest), so I don't see the basis of comparison.

 

[daveOS]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I wasn't aware killing someone was a prequalifier for diagnosing psychopathy. We don't know Polanski hasn't killed someone (intentionally or inadvertantly a la Phil Spector) but the extent of Polanski's abberant disregard for humanity seems pretty well established. Aside from the well publicized pedophilia case now coming back to haunt him, the biographer Thomas Kiernan in "The Roman Polanski Story" reports
[quote author=Kiernan]Roman just couldn't understand why screwing a kid should be of concern to anyone. He's screwed plenty of girls younger than this one, he said, and nobody gave a damn.[/quote]

I have not read that book, but his sadistic sexual history seems pretty well established and this article She Could Have Died, Roman also cites that Kiernan quote and summarizes many other details about Polanski I find illuminating about his true character. Not the least of which:
[quote author=Judith Reisman]To offset people’s general revulsion, Polanski has a pubic relations campaign that constantly plays on his tragic WWII childhood. He was born Jewish. He lived during the Holocaust. (In my view, he filmed The Pianist to exploit the Holocaust as a self promoting ‘pity Polanski’ PR ad.) In fact, Roman went to make a film in Israel, but the Israeli government wouldn’t let him set foot on Israeli soil.[/quote]

I think there's more to Polanski being arrested in Zurich than popular knowledge tells, but it could very well be all too speculative to attempt to draw a contrast with Knox.

 

[anart]

Re: Knox or Mignini the psychopath?

I wasn't aware killing someone was a prequalifier for diagnosing psychopathy.

I didn't state that it was, and, to be clear, that wasn't what you implied with 'two tales of justice' in this sentence:

but for some reason I'm cursed to keep coming across tidbits relevant to this context. This time with a keeper of the ol' Seattle Post Intelligencer flame (now web only) who parallels two tales of justice, Polanski and Knox.

If you were referring to psychopathy and not the crimes involved, it would have been helpful for you to make that clear.

it could very well be all too speculative to attempt to draw a contrast with Knox.

It seems that way at the moment, though the case isn't closed.