An interesting conversation with my son

msante

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yesterday, Sunday, I had an interesting and also somewhat touching talk with my 14 year old son. I'm going to try to reconstruct it to share it, so I warn you that you are in front of a somewhat lengthy post.

At one point in the afternoon my son came up, sat down next to me, and we started to talk. At first we talked about trivial things, but after a while he asked me this question: "Dad, don't you sometimes feel as if the world was going to shit"... "In what sense do you mean", I asked him. "In everything - he answered - the chaos around us,... it seems as if everything is going to collapse at any moment".

This was not entirely surprising to me, because I have had other touching talks with my children before and my son tends to have a somewhat gloomy view of the future. The point is that I had to respond and I told him simply the truth, that YES, I felt the same way, that we are going through a time of great change and that these can make us feel that way, but then I asked him, "What makes you think this hasn't happened before throughout human history, that this isn't a cycle that repeats every so often with good times and bad times?" (we've talked about this cycle thing before). At that point my son doubled the bet: "Suppose it is, suppose this is a cycle, then what's the purpose of it all, what's the point if the world in the long run is always going to be the same, good times and then bad times, and then the same thing again and the same thing... I mean, the world is never going to get better...". There was some anger contained in his words, but above all there was anguish, real existential anguish.

It was then that I realized that the talk required more attention so I turned off the TV that was making some background noise. After pondering for a few seconds I replied, "What if the purpose of all this had nothing to do with repairing this world, with making this reality we live in better for good... What if this world we live in were simply a medium through which each one of us has the possibility to experience and develop ourselves?" (we have also talked about this before). This is when I asked him to imagine the world as if it were a school. I argued to him that in that case the purpose of this school would not be to change itself to become a park or a paradise beach, the purpose would rather be to remain a school for the students to learn so that eventually, when they have learned all the lessons taught in that school, they can move on to the next school (a university for example). "This is the way I at least understand it...", I ended up telling him. "Ok, let's suppose that's so," he said, "I still say the same thing,.... What's the purpose of it?.... Suppose we finish this school and move on to the next one, and then we finish that one and move on to another one... so until when?... what's the point?"....

He was definitely giving me a hard time, he was slowly approaching to questions for which I have no answers, so I decided to tell him just that: "Look son, I don't have all the answers, in fact I have more questions than answers, but I can tell you how at least I see this whole thing". So I tried to talk to him in simple terms of an infinite consciousness, without time, without space, fragmenting itself to experience itself, and each of these fragments making a journey through various stages of development until it merges again with that consciousness (hells, it was difficult to explain this in simple terms!!! … even more when one barely manages to penetrate this mystery oneself). When I finished my presentation my son said to me: "Ok, all right, but you still didn't answer me for what, what is the purpose of all this. We separate from that great consciousness, and after doing all the journey we return to it... for what?... what happens next?... is there another greater consciousness of which this great consciousness is a fragment, and so on infinitely?

I felt as if someone was telling me: "Check to the king!" ... He was really putting me on the spot because I honestly could not answer that question, I really do not know what is beyond and how the Universe/Cosmos/DCM/(or whatever) works. So that's what I told him: "Son, I can't answer that because I really don't know, but what I can tell you is that, even though I know that there are things that I can't understand and that maybe, at least in this world/plane where I exist now, I can never understand, I will never stop asking myself those questions". Then he asked, "Why ask a question that you know you won't be able to answer?" "Look, I know it sounds silly," I replied, "but sometimes it's more important what provokes the question than the answer itself. I see it as if by asking myself these questions I keep a fire burning..... is it a fire that burns?...yes, does it hurt?...surely, because having questions without answers hurts, it produces anguish, but from my point of view it is good to feel this existential anguish". And I took the opportunity to add: "There is a philosophical current called Existentialism and the thinkers of this current felt this, a deep anguish for having all these unanswered questions in their heads". And then my son said to me: "Then I declare myself an Existentialist from now on". "But be careful - I added - there are two great strands of existentialism. There are those who, faced with these unanswered questions, end up feeling that there is nothing beyond, there is nothing that transcends our understanding and therefore fall into a kind of vacuum in which the only thing that exists is the will of man and that this will is the only thing that shapes reality. And then there are those who, even though they feel that there is possibly no way to answer the great questions and even though this brings them great anguish, sense that there is something intangible, an impenetrable reality, which gives meaning and significance to existence."

At that point my son added with a touch of humor: "So I declare myself an existentialist franquilist (my son's name is Franco/Frank),... I feel the anguish and sometimes I don't want to think about these things, but that doesn't mean I don't think there is something beyond". At that moment I dared to give him some advice: "... my advice would be to never stop asking yourself these questions; I know that this inner fire burns, but at the same time this fire also tempers the spirit...".

At that point the focus of the conversation shifted a little and my son confessed to me: "Sometimes, when I am at school with my friends, I feel that I can't be me, that I can't talk to anyone about these things, that I have to talk nonsense, make or celebrate rude jokes or jokes in bad taste in order to fit in...". As he told me this his eyes watered. And he continued, "Sometimes I feel like I'm losing myself, that if I keep doing those things to fit in with my friends I'm going to stop being me...". Ufff!!!! … It was intense to hear him say that!

I tried to comfort him, to explain to him that I understood him, that I also had to go through that, I was also an teenager and I had the need to be accepted, but that this can be done without losing one's essence, without ceasing to be oneself. Then he added: "I just feel like a hypocrite pretending to be someone I am not". Again I tried to reassure him: "It's true that maybe one is a bit hypocritical, although I would try to see it differently. Hypocrite' is a word with a very strong negative charge... you are a teenager and you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. Do you feel uncomfortable after having participated in a joke that is in bad taste or too rude? Well, that's the voice of your conscience scolding you. Does the scolding hurt? Yes, of course, but it's okay, little by little you will find the balance to be able to continue being yourself and at the same time to be able to continue relating to other people. But don't be so hard on yourself".

Then we talked a little bit about external consideration and how many times you have to consciously hide a little bit what you think out to respect the free will of the others, and that was pretty much all. At that point the pressure felt relieved and it felt like a weight had been lifted off my son's shoulders. We then moved on to a more jovial and relaxed chat.

After the talk I was filled with a bittersweet sensation. On the one hand a feeling of sadness, of pain for experiencing my son's anguish so closely, and on the other hand a feeling of a certain joy because I felt that these "flares" of conscience that afflict my son are essentially good for his development.

Later I began to think about how many emotions/ideas develop within our children (and young people in general) and how everyday life prevents them from finding the right space to express their concerns and prevents us from penetrating their inner world.

Reviewing the talk I also thought about how it is that, being that my son is not every day listening about the war in Ukraine, the WEF agenda, social polarization in the world, violence everywhere, gender agenda, etc., etc, etc,... he can feel so intensely that something is very wrong and that something is about to explode. It is true that I sometimes talk to my children (trying not to scare them) about some of these things, but they seem to live their lives with the concerns and interests of teenagers... Nevertheless they seem to see or perceive much more than one imagines.

Also this whole experience reminded me of the increasing rates of childhood and adolescent depression as well as the increasing suicide rate of very young people. Pain in an adult is supposed to be more acceptable, that is, at least in theory, an adult should have better resources to deal with suffering. But in the case of a child or adolescent who are beginning to build their psyche and understand the world around them, that, leaving aside the usual family problems/traumas they have to deal with, they also have to deal with the weight of a pain... I really wouldn't know what to call it, cosmic???... I don't know, more abstract and intangible, it really hit me.

Well, this is the summary of our talk, I just wanted to share it in case anyone wants to share a similar experience, comment on something or add a thought.
 
That sounds like a great conversation to be able to have with your son, pretty rare these days I'd say. One thing that occurred to me while reading your conversation was a possible answer to 'what's the point of asking questions that you can't answer'? Well, the point is the hope that with continued asking you WILL find the answer, and that should be enough to keep on trying, at least for anyone sincerely devoted to finding the Truth.
 
But in the case of a child or adolescent who are beginning to build their psyche and understand the world around them, that, leaving aside the usual family problems/traumas they have to deal with, they also have to deal with the weight of a pain... I really wouldn't know what to call it, cosmic???... I don't know, more abstract and intangibl
Yeah, I feel deeply for our young adults, who know or sense the direction in which the world has been heading. After all, their lives have barely begun. One young friend finished school, along with internships, got his dream job, only to quit soon after due to mandatory vaxx and, took a labor job...If you think about it, that took a great deal of maturity to stand his ground and walk away from a prize long time sought after and hard earned.

I'm glad your son has you to talk with....All the best to You and Yours....
 
My husband (53years old) is going through the experience of feeling like he is pretending to be someone he is not just to be able to fit in at work. And he is sick of it, his employers are very entrenched in the covid plot.
After a lifetime, extending into my childhood (at 7 years old I remember it starting), of wanting to know why what’s the point of life, I gave myself an answer at age 34.
I decided that life existed to keep God company. If all of existence and universal consciousness is called God then God must have been pretty lonely when coming to the realisation of self existence. I thought if I was all powerful I would split myself up into different pieces and then I would not be lonely anymore. Then marvel at how these other small pieces that have been birthed continue to become.
Besides, what else are you going to do when you’re God?

Maybe it sounds ridiculous and a bit crazy but for me it is a satisfactory answer for now. The thought of I’m alive to keep God company is comforting to me these days.
 
Our daughter (12 years) is going through these same things. I read your post to her, and I said “See? There is a teenager in Argentina who understands you!”
She said, “I actually feel a lot better now,” and chuckled.
If it will help, pass that on. If two kids coming upon the world understand there is something deeper afoot, then surely there are many more. And part of the function of the “fire in the spirit,” I believe, is to help light our way toward one another.
 
That sounds like a great conversation to be able to have with your son, pretty rare these days I'd say. One thing that occurred to me while reading your conversation was a possible answer to 'what's the point of asking questions that you can't answer'? Well, the point is the hope that with continued asking you WILL find the answer, and that should be enough to keep on trying, at least for anyone sincerely devoted to finding the Truth.

I think you are right, and it is a good point to ponder on. Maybe that factor was missing in my responses, the hope, or at least a perspective that in some instance, no matter "when", the answers will come. Something I will keep in mind in an eventual future talk :-). Thanks!
 
Our daughter (12 years) is going through these same things. I read your post to her, and I said “See? There is a teenager in Argentina who understands you!”
She said, “I actually feel a lot better now,” and chuckled.
If it will help, pass that on. If two kids coming upon the world understand there is something deeper afoot, then surely there are many more. And part of the function of the “fire in the spirit,” I believe, is to help light our way toward one another.

I will tell my son about this tonight when I get home from work....THANK YOU and a big hug for your daughter, she is not alone!!!! :hug2:
 
What an amazing conversation to have with your son, msante. I think you responded very well!

At that point the focus of the conversation shifted a little and my son confessed to me: "Sometimes, when I am at school with my friends, I feel that I can't be me, that I can't talk to anyone about these things, that I have to talk nonsense, make or celebrate rude jokes or jokes in bad taste in order to fit in...". As he told me this his eyes watered. And he continued, "Sometimes I feel like I'm losing myself, that if I keep doing those things to fit in with my friends I'm going to stop being me...". Ufff!!!! … It was intense to hear him say that!

I happened to read a bit of Carlos Castaneda last night, which seems relevant to this.. though I don't know if it could be helpful or not. I personally found it so, when I first read it at 18 or 19, but it seems like the kind of thing someone has to find for themselves eventually.. maybe not helpful to show somebody who is in the middle of going through that kind of thing and just wants to, say, live a normal life...and find their people who they can be real with.

But, the full chapter is here: 66: Controlled Folly – Toltec School .. it's long, so here are just a couple small excerpts:

“I told you once that our lot as men is to learn, for good or bad,” he said. “I have learned to see and I tell you that nothing really matters; now it is your turn; perhaps some day you will see and you will know then whether things matter or not. For me nothing matters, but perhaps for you everything will. You should know by now that a man of knowledge lives by acting, not by thinking about acting, nor by thinking about what he will think when he has finished acting. A man of knowledge chooses a path with heart and follows it; and then he looks and rejoices and laughs; and then he sees and knows. He knows that his life will be over altogether too soon; he knows that he, as well as everybody else, is not going anywhere; he knows, because he sees, that nothing is more important than anything else. In other words, a man of knowledge has no honor, no dignity, no family, no name, no country, but only life to be lived, and under these circumstances his only tie to his fellow men is his controlled folly. Thus a man of knowledge endeavors, and sweats, and puffs, and if one looks at him he is just like any ordinary man, except that the folly of his life is under control. Nothing being more important than anything else, a man of knowledge chooses any act, and acts it out as if it matters to him. His controlled folly makes him say that what he does matters and makes him act as if it did, and yet he knows that it doesn’t; so when he fulfills his acts he retreats in peace, and whether his acts were good or bad, or worked or didn’t, is in no way part of his concern.”

I told don Juan that my conflict arose from the doubts into which his words about controlled folly had thrown me.

“If nothing really matters,” I said, “upon becoming a man of knowledge one would find oneself, perforce, as empty as my friend and in no better position.”

“That’s not so,” don Juan said cuttingly. “Your friend is lonely because he will die without seeing. In his life he just grew old and now he must have more self-pity than ever before. He feels he threw away forty years because he was after victories and found only defeats. He’ll never know that to be victorious and to be defeated are equal.”

“So now you’re afraid of me because I’ve told you that you’re equal to everything else. You’re being childish. Our lot as men is to learn and one goes to knowledge as one goes to war; I have told you this countless times. One goes to knowledge or to war with fear, with respect, aware that one is going to war, and with absolute confidence in oneself. Put your trust in yourself, not in me.”

“And so you’re afraid of the emptiness of your friend’s life. But there’s no emptiness in the life of a man of knowledge, I tell you. Everything is filled to the brim.”

Don Juan stood up and extended his arms as if feeling things in the air.

“Everything is filled to the brim,” he repeated, “and everything is equal. I’m not like your friend who just grew old. When I tell you that nothing matters I don’t mean it the way he does. For him, his struggle was not worth his while, because he was defeated; for me there is no victory, or defeat, or emptiness. Everything is filled to the brim and everything is equal and my struggle was worth my while.”

~

I don't have kids but remember feeling that way (and I still do sometimes, acting like not myself in order to fit in) and I think if I did have kids, I'd want to say to them, don't be too scared to be yourself sometimes (eg to not pretend laugh at a joke you find unfunny), because there are probably some other people around you feeling a similar way, and they'll see this, and it could lead to real friendships in the future... and you don't need to be forceful about it, or "rock the boat" or stand out too much, so as to make people (the unfunny joke people) dislike you.. you can be graceful about your differences... but you're ALLOWED to be yourself and bring your own things (eg things YOU find funny, or interesting, or whatever) to the table...

(maybe this is totally unhelpful, teenagers have a lot going on! gosh do i feel for today's kids.... anyway, sounds like your son is going to be a deep and interesting guy!)
 
If it will help, pass that on. If two kids coming upon the world understand there is something deeper afoot, then surely there are many more. And part of the function of the “fire in the spirit,” I believe, is to help light our way toward one another.
I will tell my son about this tonight when I get home from work....THANK YOU and a big hug for your daughter, she is not alone!!!! :hug2:
Thank you both for this! And yes there are more teens like these. Our 15 yo is going through same questioning. I'm sure she will feel comforted tomorrow when I will talk her about this post.
 
What a remarkable son you have, msante. 🥰
Such huge, deep questions that many adults do not ever really wish to discuss, or even consciously think about in any depth!

I loved that you took the time to really see and hear Franco's need to share / ask questions and it feels like you created a space for that to happen without pressure / time limits. Instead of the 'everything will be alright' response - which denies and dismisses the deeper awareness/intuition/insight of a young enquiring mind, you listened thoughtfully and spoke honestly and deeply about your own views. You didn't pretend to have all the answers, but affirmed you have been asking many questions. You helped him (so beautifully!) to explore alternative perspectives, new concepts, further expand and develop his own line of thought, helping him 'unravel things' within himself as you spoke together. This gave you both an opportunity to throw ideas back and forth, consider different views, and for Franco to discover his inner 'existentialist franquilist' :lol: (ha ha, love it!). It also seemed to create some form of expansion within you both independently and together, once that had all 'cleared'.

How refreshing to see that someone of that age who can consciously witness authentic / inauthentic behaviour (in himself and others), speak with such emotional intelligence, engage with you the way he does, articulate issues with such clarity and honesty. A reflection of the intelligent, loving, supportive environment he has been raised in, IMHO.

Sounds like there is more than one 'seeker' in your household! I can only imagine how many more fascinating conversations will continue between you... and how many conversations it has the potential to inspire between other forum members and youth they have a connection with. Love that others here have been inspired to read this post to their own teens. :flowers:
 
I tell my kids that we are here to learn simple lessons and karmic lessons. Be a good person, do the right thing, protect yourself.

I haven't been faced with the kind of conversation you had. What seems to be one appropriate response is that we are in a giant cosmic rescue mission, saving ourselves now so in the end we can save others, from STS to STO.

I also drive home the point that a lot of people do stupid things because they think it's cool, and to resist pressure from anyone trying to get them to do something they don't want to do. I tell them not to play with others who are mean to them.
 
Your son is very lucky to have a father like you, Msante. And wow, he is already 14 years old! Time flies!

Maybe your son can communicate with the daughter of Pinkfreud? I remember when I was around 13, 14 years old, I felt very lonely in a country that was not mine, without feeling part of it and one day I wrote to a magazine for young people from Spain (I was living in Canada) and asked them if someone would like to exchange letters with me. After a month, I received around 100 letters from young people that had the need to exchange and communicate with someone who lived very far away. Maybe they felt lonely, too. I do not know.

Ok, young people today are not different, but they live in a strange planet and if they communicate they do it using Wassap or with FB, but it is not the same as writing a letter and send it by air mail. It is a totally different experience. First of all when you write by hand you need to think what you write. And the magic of sending an envelope by airmail, then to receive a letter by the same way! And to communicate with someone who understands you, someone who can feel the same questions and doubts. The letters can be a way to know oneself and to be able to listen to another person.

Eh, it is just an idea.

Good luck with your kid, your young man. Thanks for sharing this with us!
 
He was definitely giving me a hard time, he was slowly approaching to questions for which I have no answers,
The same thing happens to me with my son in his questions.

There are questions that would need a lot of intermediate material to understand the answer well, so giving a simple and understandable explanation is quite a challenge.

Many of the answers of the C's of the type "near", "up to you", etc..., are the same.

They are like a wise adult responding to a child.

It is fantastic that your son begins to "see" and I have read your comment with a smile.

A lot encourage to you and try to enjoy that you have someone nearby who has questions, in contrast to almost everyone.
 
@msante ... Your post was the first one I read today. Thank you! And thanks to your son for questioning you. What a sensitive and intuitive teenager. He is very lucky to have you as his father. With the way you responded to his questions, I think he has so much more room to think hopefully about life. And, isn't that what we are all looking for - answers to our questions (both internal and external). But as usual, answers to our questions today bring on more questions. That may be the purpose of life!? Great job dad!!!
 
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