Another hit for the C's -- Native Americans?

shijing

The Living Force
Q: (L) What is the source of the Native American Indians?
A: Asia.

Q: (L) Across the Bering Strait?
A: No. Rescued. Transferred.

Q: (L) By whom?
A: Grays.

Q: (L) What were they rescued out of?
A: Cataclysm.

Q: (L) When did that cataclysm occur?
A: 7200 years ago approx.

Q: (L) What was the nature of that cataclysm?
A: Comets.

When working on the Kantek thread, it struck me that this particular excerpt from the transcripts may have focused on a more specific group of Native Americans, and not Native Americans in general (from both continents). Only Laura could know for sure what she had in mind when she asked this question, but with this as a background, what is interesting is that there has been recent mainstream acceptance of one part of the Sino-Caucasian (Dene-Caucasian) language hypothesis (including a whole conference dedicated to it a year and a half ago: _http://www.uaf.edu/anlc/dy2008.html), specifically the connection between the Yeniseian languages of central Asia and the Na-Dene languages of North America:

_http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dené-Yeniseian_languages

The Yeniseian group is a small group of languages spoken in the area of the Yenisei River (all of which except Ket now being extinct), and which is surrounded by putative Nostratic languages (Uralic to the west and Altaic to the east). The Na-Dene languages are spoken throughout much of Alaska and Canada, along parts of the western American coast, and in southwest America (their most well-known exemplars being the Navaho and the Apache). The distance between these two groups is greater than that between any other two groups of an accepted language family; a map showing the location of the two groups is here:

dy-jayasuriya.jpg


Although methodologically inexact at present, a lexicostatistical analysis also shows a time depth between the two families of about 7,000 years, if you trace Yeniseian back to Dene-Caucasian (from which Eyak-Athapaskan (Na-Dene) also branches):

globet.png

From _http://starling.rinet.ru/images/globet.png

(You may have to increase your viewing size to read this -- I apologize that I couldn't make it any larger).

It looks like it would be good to try to find out if there is any information about comet impacts 7,200 years ago in the Yenisei basin -- I have no data at present, but will look, and welcome information from anyone else who might know.
 
shijing said:
It looks like it would be good to try to find out if there is any information about comet impacts 7,200 years ago in the Yenisei area -- I have no data at present, but will look, and welcome information from anyone else who might know.


Hmm, it is possible that evidence of impacts 7,200 years ago could have been covered up by more recent impacts. The Tunguska Event took place in the Yenisei basin!!

_http://www.singularvortex.com/WFE%20on%20Tunguska%20event.htm

article said:
The Tunguska epicenter is right in the middle of the paleovolcano crater, inside Yenisei basin that was outlined by a river system as a huge dual core geological depression; centered on a core at North of the other core in a dual core depression. There is a bigger circular depressed structure surrounding the huge dual core depression.

Lightning supposedly doesn't strike the same place twice, but what about comets?

edit: I don't really agree with the theory in that article, just the location of the event. It was probably comets rather than a vortex of molten matter inside the earth, although it is an interesting interpretation.
 
combsbt said:
Hmm, it is possible that evidence of impacts 7,200 years ago could have been covered up by more recent impacts. The Tunguska Event took place in the Yenisei basin!!

_http://www.singularvortex.com/WFE%20on%20Tunguska%20event.htm

article said:
The Tunguska epicenter is right in the middle of the paleovolcano crater, inside Yenisei basin that was outlined by a river system as a huge dual core geological depression; centered on a core at North of the other core in a dual core depression. There is a bigger circular depressed structure surrounding the huge dual core depression.

Lightning supposedly doesn't strike the same place twice, but what about comets?

edit: I don't really agree with the theory in that article, just the location of the event. It was probably comets rather than a vortex of molten matter inside the earth, although it is an interesting interpretation.

Here's an article that discusses the fact that the Tunguska event occurred over an ancient volcano site.

_http://omzg.sscc.ru/tunguska/en/newse/abstracts/sapron2.htm

Radial fall out of wood after the Tunguska Meteorite (TM) explosion is located on the territory of early Triassic basalt volcano (Sapronov, Sobolenko, 1975; Sapronov, 1986). Nowadays volcanic edifice has been considerably destroyed and on its day surface the root is exposed: intrusions of feeding magmatic system, bordering highly raised tectonoblock of base, which is composed of Permian coal-bearing deposits.

In the southern periphery and in some places inside the volcano there are developed intrusions, mono- and polymineral veins of hydrotermal rocks and of body of sulphate mineralization of carbonitite volcanism, appeared later.

Volcano structures have their specific highly intensive magnetic fields. Dolerites consist of magnetite, which enriches eluvium, talus and allyuvium in the district. Carbonatites bring rare-metal and rare-earth mineralization, polymetals, boron, strontium, barite, fluorine and a range of other elements. In coaly aleurolites, coals and sandstones with detrit there are rare-earth elements and phosphorus.

All this testifies that numerous geophysical and material anomalies defined in the process of TM substance searh, including those found in plants, can have Earth, geochemical origin.

I wonder if there is something about the magnetic anomalies of this region that would attract a comet? We don't know for certain that a comet hit this particular region twice, but there seems to be a chance this is true. I also find it odd that of all a places this comet could strike, it managed to make a direct hit over the top of an ancient volcano. Odd coincidence, if anything.

Then there is the C's reference to "nickel", which looks like it is probably a more general clue - but they do ask the question "is nickel magnetic?" twice in the same session.

[quote author=Laura]
Q: (A) This is exactly the question. The object in question is the comet,
and the question is: what is its composition, is it a dirty snowball, or is
it a charged object that collects particles on its way like the 'vacuum
cleaner' model?

A: Nickel?

Q: (L) So the composition of this particular comet is nickel? A: No, we
are almost desparately trying to "jump start" your intellectual capacities.
Remember, this is a group effort here. Not a series of questions from the
meek and helpless to the Lord High Commander!!

Q: It seems that they are desperately trying to tell us something without
violating free will, but we have to participate in order to receive it.

A: Yes.

Q: (A) I just want to know about this particular comet?

A: Nickel?

Q: (L) What do we know about nickel? (A) There are all kinds of things
about nickel. It is a metal. The question is whether nickel has anything
to do with this particular comet.

A: If it does, it could be vital.

Q: (A) What is the composition of this comet?

A: Most comets are indeed "dirty snowballs," composed largely of water ice
and particulate matter. But, some are more like fast moving asteroids
caught up in an orbital plane. Your "Millennium Group" is maybe just a bit
too one-side-or-the-otherish at this point. Thus, a spectral analysis of
this object is in order before one assumes it to be a cosmic vacuum cleaner.

Q: (A) I guess from this that, even if these guys can be in some cases
correct, this comet, after analyzing, will prove to be just an ordinary
dirty snowball. That is my guess.

A: No guessing allowed!

Q: (L) These guys say that they have repeatedly ask to get some data on
this comet from the various government sources who have the capacity to do
such analyses, simply have not been forthcoming with this information as
though they have something to hide.

A: They are not the only ones who can analyze.

Q: (L) Then, I guess we need to find somebody who has done a spectral
analysis. Find out who can do this. (A) It requires special equipment...
(L) Is there something about this comet business that you want to convey to
us so that we need to keep on it until we get to the right question?

A: You need to "keep on" a lot of things.

Q: (L) That's what I mean. If there is nothing crucial about this at the
moment, if spectral analysis is what we need to find and you are not going
to tell us what it is composed of... ARE you going to tell us? What is it
composed of? Or do we have to do a spectral analysis and find out on our
own?

A: Have we not already indicated? Knowledge is power. If we give it to
you like Halloween candy, it is diffused.

Q: (L) You said that the primary composition of this comet is nickel?

A: No, we said "nickel?"

Q: (L) What does 'nickel' mean? (A) It's a shiny metal. (L) A coin, a
five cent piece...

A: What does molten nickel look like against the backdrop of space?

Q: (A) It would look like silver... (L) Would it have a color? (A) I
don't think so.

A: Does it conduct electricity? Is it magnetic?

Q: (A) Yes, it can conduct, but its not magnetic. Why 'molten?'

A: What about the "tail" of such an object coming into contact with the
ionosphere?

Q: (L) Oh. I think I get it. The Nostradamus thing about a great
comet's tail or something... let me look it up:

After great trouble for humanity, a greater one is prepared
The Great Mover renews the ages:
Rain, blood, milk, famine, steel and plague,
In the heavens fire seen, a long spark running.

[This sounds kinda like this current comet.]

This one is supposed to refer to something that occurs at the turn of the
Millennium... is this what we are getting at here? Something that will
look like a 'long spark running' which then comes in contact with the
ionosphere which may exchage potentials with the earth by virtue of this
conducting, molten nickel tail? Yes????? Is that good?

A: Ask Arkadiusz.

Q: (L) Well, honey... am I on to something here? (A) The point is that this
comet is in space. Space is rather cold, so the question is: what would
make nickel molten? (L) Well, it will be close to the sun! That will heat
it up! (A) This particular comet is not going to come close enough to the
sun to melt it! (L) Well then, how can the nickel be molten???

A: What about flares?

Q: (L) That's it! A bodacious solar flare! And, combined with the
bodacious solar flare is a change of trajectory because of its accumulation
of matter... so that it is closer to the sun ... (A) But it is not coming
close enough to the sun to be caught in a solar flare!

A: Is nickel magnetic?

Q: (L) No. What does it mean to this subject that a nickel is not magnetic?

A: Does nickel have a companion?

Q: A) Well, when we say a 'companion,' it means another metal in the same
family in the Mendeleev Table. I believe that cobalt and Nickel are in the
same family, but I will have to check...

A: And cobalt is invisible in the good old vacuum of space, but not
nickel!

Q: L) Does that mean it will attract cobalt?

A: No, cobalt will attract.

Q: L) The cobalt will attract flares... electromagnetic phenomena...

A: Et al.

Q: (L) I see.

A: Now, you need to know the composition of this comet... And any other
closely following same. We have alluded to the increased cometary activity
before. Oort, and that which cyclically disturbs it.

Q: (L) I just want to know one thing... are any of these comets gonna hit
the earth?

A: Someday, certainly. As have before.
[/quote]

In any event, I fear I am diverging from the topic at hand. Thanks for sharing this shijing! Your interpretation of these maps give much food for thought.

Ryan
 
combsbt said:
Hmm, it is possible that evidence of impacts 7,200 years ago could have been covered up by more recent impacts. The Tunguska Event took place in the Yenisei basin!!

Lightning supposedly doesn't strike the same place twice, but what about comets?

Interesting about Tunguska, and thanks for bringing that up since I didn't realize that it also occurred in the Yenisei basin. One thing I wonder is how extensive the comet spread might have been 7,200 years ago. Maybe the Yenisei basin did get hit, but along with numerous other sites surrounding -- the wider the spread, the smaller the coincidence with Tunguska

RyanX said:
I wonder if there is something about the magnetic anomalies of this region that would attract a comet? We don't know for certain that a comet hit this particular region twice, but there seems to be a chance this is true. I also find it odd that of all a places this comet could strike, it managed to make a direct hit over the top of an ancient volcano. Odd coincidence, if anything.

Then there is the C's reference to "nickel", which looks like it is probably a more general clue - but they do ask the question "is nickel magnetic?" twice in the same session.

I don't know what to make of this yet, but I think this is an interesting observation too. If there ended up being anything to this idea, the ramifications could be very profound (and we would all probably want to check for the existence and ratio of magnetic metals in the areas in which we currently reside!).
 
When working on the Kantek thread, it struck me that this particular excerpt from the transcripts may have focused on a more specific group of Native Americans, and not Native Americans in general (from both continents). Only Laura could know for sure what she had in mind when she asked this question, but with this as a background, what is interesting is that there has been recent mainstream acceptance of one part of the Sino-Caucasian (Dene-Caucasian) language hypothesis (including a whole conference dedicated to it a year and a half ago: _http://www.uaf.edu/anlc/dy2008.html), specifically the connection between the Yeniseian languages of central Asia and the Na-Dene languages of North America:

Hello shijing:

It seems to me that Laura's question was very clear in knowing the origin of Native Americans, all of them but not one in specific.
the given answer was very specific but at the same time inaccurate.

The earliest certain evidence suggests that people were in the Americas by 15,000 years ago but an earlier date seems increasingly likely. Recent controversial archaeological finds in Mexico, Chile, Brazil, and elsewhere suggest a human presence as early as 30,000 or more years ago.

So, 7,200 years is too short.

What about the oral tradition from the Na-Dene´s , do they give reference of cataclysms and rescue in their origin?
 
Hi journey --

journey said:
It seems to me that Laura's question was very clear in knowing the origin of Native Americans, all of them but not one in specific.

It certainly reads that way, but there are occasions in the transcripts (and also based on what Laura has written herself) that make me cautious about rigidly interpreting everything literally. Remember, when Laura or others ask questions, they are not merely verbalizing -- the C's are actually reading their minds, as evidenced in one instance where Laura asked a question mentally without stating it specifically, and the C's gave a specific answer. Since, as you note, the answer given to this question does not align with the demographic history of the Americas as we know it, I strongly suspect that when 'Native Americans' was used in this question, it referred to a more restricted group, even though not overtly qualified as such. I could be completely wrong, and like I said, only Laura (and perhaps others at that session) would know for sure.

journey said:
the given answer was very specific but at the same time inaccurate.

The earliest certain evidence suggests that people were in the Americas by 15,000 years ago but an earlier date seems increasingly likely. Recent controversial archaeological finds in Mexico, Chile, Brazil, and elsewhere suggest a human presence as early as 30,000 or more years ago.

So, 7,200 years is too short.

Yes, and that's another reason why I think the question referred to a more restricted group; note the contrast with this information:

Q: (L) What genetic type were the Atlanteans?
A: They were the same as the “Native Americans.”

Q: (L) What were the roots of the Native American type? Was there a basic type that was here on the planet and was then taken to an Orion lab and genetically modified and then planted?
A: No!!! Have you been paying attention?!?!

Q: (L) What did I miss? Why do some Native Americans believe they come from the Pleiades?
A: Where are the Pleiades?

Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?
A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

The fact that the primary type of Atlantean is identified as 'Native American' leads me to believe that other groups that we think of as 'Native American' such as those listed above (none of them are Na-Dene, coincidentally) may have been in the Americas essentially since the final collapse of Atlantis, either as direct holdovers, or as displaced migrants who had originally lived in the part of Atlantis which is no longer extant, and who immigrated directly to the Americas. This would have been considerably farther back in time than a mere 7,200 years.

journey said:
What about the oral tradition from the Na-Dene´s, do they give reference of cataclysms and rescue in their origin?

I just downloaded a couple of papers comparing Yeniseian and Na-Dene mythological traditions. I haven't had a chance to read them yet, but will post here if I turn up anything relevant.
 
journey said:
It seems to me that Laura's question was very clear in knowing the origin of Native Americans, all of them but not one in specific.
the given answer was very specific but at the same time inaccurate.

Hi Journey, Taking from the sessions, there actually seems to be more than one origin of 'Native Americans'.

941007 said:
Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?
A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

Maybe over millenia there was admixture?
 
941007 said:
Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?
A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

One interesting thing that I never noticed before is that three of the above groups are all part of the same language family -- Aztec, Hopi, and Pima are all Uto-Aztecan languages, located in western North America and Mexico:

Uto-Aztecan_langs.png

Uto-Aztecan -- Mexican segment not completely shown (from Wikipedia)

The Incas spoke one form of Quechuan, and the Mayas spoke Mayan, both independent families:

Quechuan_langs_map.svg

Quechuan (from Wikipedia)
Distribution-myn2.png

Mayan (from Wikipedia)

There's an invitation to look for some language relationships if I ever saw one!
 
Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?
A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

It is curious that C´s did not mention Toltecs, and Teothiuacans.
 
In the process of doing research for a book I ran across this interesting fact:

(pasted this from Answers.com, but have found many references to this stange fact:

The Kutenai language (also Kootenai or Ktunaxa language) is named after and is spoken by some of the Kootenai Native American/First Nations people who are indigenous to the area of North America that is now Montana, Idaho, and British Columbia.

Kutenai is a language isolate having no demonstrable relation to any other language. The most plausible hypothesis for a connection to other languages is the proposal that it is distantly related to the Salishan languages. This hypothesis is generally considered plausible but has not been established.
 
There are many references from other cultures with alleged Atlantes origin, let me name some, Egyptians, Amerindians, Greeks, Celtics and the last one, Hebrews among others.
All this is confusing, simply because there is not solid evidence, call it linguistically, anthropologically, genetically, architecturally etc.
that all those civilizations or cultures have a common past.

How were the Atlanteans? were they multiracial, multicultural? who are their authentic heirs?

:huh:
 
It is confusing, as you say. There are no written records spelling it out, very little in the way of artefacts that science will admit come from that period. Given modern science wants to wish it away, we're looking at indirect routes to discovering what we can.

The Cs suggest it was a world-wide culture, so there may have been many ethnicities, and the question then is how many survived the cataclysms. Also, if what the Cs suggest is correct, there were several cataclysms over the period of its existence, so which Atlantean civilization are we talking about?

There were probably different groups professing different ideas, so even if we establish some group as an Atlantean descendent, we then have to ask, what does it mean? We're they STS or STO? Were there even any STO Atlanteans or was it an STS world as it is now?

The Cs have given some answers as has been mentioned above. But we need to accept that speculation is easier than coming up with hard and fast answers.
 
journey said:
Q: (L) Where else did the Atlanteans go?
A: Americas. Inca. Aztec. Maya. Hopi Tribe. Pima tribe.

It is curious that C´s did not mention Toltecs, and Teothiuacans.

Not necessarily in this context -- all of the groups they list above are documented ethnic groups, whereas the Toltecs are part of the Mayan mythological past, and the Teotihuacans were an undocumented and likely multi-ethnic society. Also, although the C's threw out a few particular examples, it seems likely that the list isn't exhaustive.

journey said:
There are many references from other cultures with alleged Atlantes origin, let me name some, Egyptians, Amerindians, Greeks, Celtics and the last one, Hebrews among others.
All this is confusing, simply because there is not solid evidence, call it linguistically, anthropologically, genetically, architecturally etc.
that all those civilizations or cultures have a common past.

See Galahad above about this issue (and note that its important to keep your sources separate, as some are likely to be more reliable than others), and also note that there actually is solid evidence linking, for example, the modern Greeks and the Celts (whether these terms referred to the same groups in prehistory is another question).

journey said:
How were the Atlanteans? were they multiracial, multicultural? who are their authentic heirs?

Also regarding this question, if you haven't already seen it, visit the population and demography section of the Atlantis thread.

Kel said:
Kutenai is a language isolate having no demonstrable relation to any other language. The most plausible hypothesis for a connection to other languages is the proposal that it is distantly related to the Salishan languages. This hypothesis is generally considered plausible but has not been established.

This is interesting, although its also true that there is no shortage of language isolates in the Americas, largely due to a combination of inadequate documentation and shortage of researchers in this area. Time will tell...
 
Not necessarily in this context -- all of the groups they list above are documented ethnic groups, whereas the Toltecs are part of the Mayan mythological past, and the Teotihuacans were an undocumented and likely multi-ethnic society. Also, although the C's threw out a few particular examples, it seems likely that the list isn't exhaustive.

Toltecs are not a myth, they were real, they culture influenced Mayans in the Post Classic era.

The Toltec empire is believed to have been destroyed around 1200 AD by the nomadic warriors of the Chichimecs. The ruling family of the Aztecs claimed to descend from Toltec ancestry via the sacred city of Colhuacán.

Leon Portilla, on his works, explains that in Nauha legend, the Toltec were the originators of all the civilization, so Toltec was synonimous with artist, or artisan, and their city "Tollan" was described as full of wonders. When the Aztecs rewrote their history, they tried to show they were related to the Toltecs. Unfortunatelly this means that much of the tradition of the Toltecs is legend, and dificult to prove. Stories say that after the fall of Tula some of the Toltec retreated to Cholula, which did not fall until centuries later when it was burned by Hernán Cortés and the Spanish Conquistadores.
 
Not much on the Teotihuacan folk Journey, but have you seen this in regards to the Toltec?

From what I understand the Toltecs utilized Mayan temples/palaces in the Yucatan and elsewhere after they had 'disappeared' and partook of strong STS pasttimes.



950225 said:
Q: (BP) Were the Mayans an STS civilization?
A: No.
Q: (BP) Why did they engage in human sacrifice and so
forth?
A: They did not.
Q: (BP) They did not?! (L) I think that's an archaeological
fallacy. (TM) Yes. (BP) Isn't that fascinating! (TM) I am
going to be looking into that in the next couple of months.
(L) You ain't heard nothin' yet! (TM) Wasn't there another
group... the Toltecs, were they the ones who engaged in
human sacrifice?
A: At some point.
 
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