Anti-depressants and MDMA - A view through Ponerology.

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#1
So a month ago, I gave away my copy of Political Ponerology, and while the recipient was worthy of the gift, it left my little reference library a book short, so I ordered another copy for myself. It arrived in the mail a few days ago and I found myself casually flipping through it. -Then reading it again with gusto!

Wow! It had been a few years since I last went through it, and boy, it’s a book which ages well with time! I highly recomend folks here give it another read if it has been a while. When it first came out, many of the scenarios and patterns it described were, back then, largely theoretical I now realize. However, in the context of today’s hysterical “Culture War” environment, Lobaczewski's work carries immediate and pertinent information which draws a picture in one's mind in sharp relief. I found myself underlining in pencil whole sections on practically every page. (I think having read through it and its dense prose once already served to soften up my intake filters!)

Anyway...

There was one passage which caught me with particular force which I will reproduce here.

In Chapter IV, Lobaczewski lists and evaluates the different flavors of characteropathies, and he describes one particular variation...

Drug-induced characteropathies: During the last few decades, medicine has begun using a series of drugs with serious side effects: they attack the nervous system, leaving permanent damage behind. These generally discreet handicaps sometimes give rise to personality changes which are often very harmful socially. Streptomycin proved a very dangerous drug; as a result, some countries have limited its use, whereas others have taken it off the list of drugs whose use is permitted.

The cytostatic drugs used in treating neopalstic diseases often attack the phylogenetically oldest brain tissue, the primary carrier of our instinctive substratum and basic feelings. Persons treated with such drugs progressively tend to lose their emotional color and their ability to intuit a psychological situation. They retain their intellectual functions but become praise-craving egocentrics, easily ruled by people who know how to take advantage of this. They become indifferent to other people’s feelings and the harm they are inflicting upon them; any criticism of their own person or behavior is repaid with a vengeance. Such a change of character in a person who until recently enjoyed respect on the part of his environment or community, which perseveres in human minds, becomes a pathological phenomenon causing often tragic results.

[...]

Finally, polio attacks the brain, more often the higher part of the anterior horns, which was affected by the process. People with leg paresis rarely manifest these effects, but those with paresis of the neck and/or shoulders must count themselves lucky if they do not. In addition to affective pallor, persons manifesting these effects usually evidence naivete and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter.

[...]

Character anomalies developing as a result of brain-tissue damage behave like insidious ponerogenic factors. As a result of the above-described features, especially the above-mentioned naivete and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter, their influence easily anchors in human minds, traumatizing our psyches, impoverishing and deforming our thoughts and feelings, and limiting individuals’ and societies’ ability to use common sense and to read a psychological or moral situation accurately. This opens the door to the influence of other pathological characters who most frequently carry some inherited psychological deviations; they then push the characteropathic individuals into the shadows and proceed with their ponerogenic work. That is why various types of characteropathy participate during the initial periods of the genesis of evil, both on the macrosocial sacale and on the individual scale of human families.
Two thoughts here...

1. The veritable tsunami of anti-depressant drugs prescribed to the population over the last twenty years might have had a similar impact on emotional cognition as the drugs described above through Lobaczewski's pre-WWII observations, and if so we may perhaps discern some new understanding as to why this wave of medication was so universally injected into human culture. (Thinking from a 4D programming perspective.)

2. Nearly twenty years ago, back when I was studying the popular use of MDMA (Ecstasy) among the youth at the time (i.e., "Rave Culture"), I happened upon a sobering discovery; the damage caused to brain cells through regular use of the drug bore a stark resemblance to the damage caused by Polio. (Note the quoted section above regarding the same). -I'd managed to hunt down and compare slides of various healthy and damaged brain cells as seen under magnification. Evident in both polio affliction and MDMA use was that neurons responsible for mood and vital nerve regulation died in large numbers, and after the disease and toxins had passed, the remaining surviving neurons grew extra nodes and thus were able to make up for the shortfall. (The way this knowledge came to the attention of the medical community was due to a condition which came to prominence in the late 1990's and early 2000's popularly called, "Chronic Fatigue Syndrome". In old age, in people suffering this particular form of the condition, when those surviving and altered neurons began to die from natural aging, numbers of the required brain cell dropped below some critical threshold and the result was that afflicted people would feel enormously exhausted all the time, of being barely able to lift their limbs; the paralysis experienced during their childhood bout with polio returned in a new form. The condition was mysterious for a long time until the link was made to the polio epidemics of the last century.)

Anyway, it strikes me that perhaps the more recent wave of popular MDMA use/abuse among youth, (which continues to this day to a degree among the love-in dance party hippie types), might have had a similar emotionally-dampening effect as described by Lobaczewski, resulting in a whole segment of the population being more likely to experience a collective state of naivete and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter. This would seem to line up with the category of people most commonly associated with radical leftism.

While this is just a casual theory on my part, and while certainly not the likely sole cause of the current situation, anti-depressant and MDMA type drug use might have had a role to play in the somewhat mysterious culture-wide condition of, “Millenial Madness” which so-called "helicopter parenting" might not alone be able to account for. -As well as the weird condition where no matter how reasonable and measured and logical he is, figures like Jordan Peterson are completely unable to sway a significant number of not just hard-core activist types, but so many casual leftists as well. Such people may, in a very real way, simply not have the grey matter required. It may have been flushed down the toilet in their urine along with the digested dregs of their metabolized fluoride-based mood medications and party drugs.

Anyway...

That was the thought I wanted to share.

Beyond that, I would recommend again that folks give Andrew Lobaczewski’s Political Ponerology a second reading in this dark and dangerous time of re-awakening Marxist thinking, de-platforming of out-group personalities, mass cognitive dissonance and general madness. It contains a veritable mountain of useful insight! -Not the least being that dealing with ponerized people effectively may not entail appealing to reason and other normal methods rational people would naturally attempt, as such may simply be impossible due to very real brain damage. Rather perhaps a doctrine of strategic enclosure and treating afflicted people as though they are dangerous machines which can be measured and moved around and manipulated with extreme caution would be advised.

Sorry. -Not the most up-beat thoughts for a Sunday morning, but there it is.
 
Last edited:

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#2
Indeed, Ponerology has many answers to what is happening today. It's peculiar to think that we have Vinnie Bridges and his gang of pathologicals to thank for driving us to learn about the phenomenon which then led to Lobaczewski contacting us with his MS. Perhaps the world at large is going to learn on a grand scale what we learned in a microcosm?
 

Aeneas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#3
Thanks for that insight Woodsman. It makes a lot of sense in trying to understand why we now have such a large segment of the population unable to comprehend the crux of the matter and how they can continue to naively believe, whether that be the ongoing anti-Russia show or the whole Deep State cabal, DNC, FBI, Mueller, Killary etc. Hysterization by the media undoubtedly also plays a role, but the points about drugs and its effect on the brain is interesting. Recreational drugs are very common in certain environments/ age groups and then there are all the prescribed Big Pharma drugs. A perfect way to program people as you mention it from a 4D STS perspective.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#4
I was thinking a bit more about MDMA...

From what I gather, the way it works is that methylene-dioxy-methamphetamine, (I actually memorized that chemical name for some reason back when I was a kid), causes the active mood regulating cells to go into overdrive and dump everything they have into the brain. -Users go through an intense empathic experience which lasts for several hours. Curiously, it also causes people to experience a boundless feeling of physical energy which they typically spend dancing, -to the point where they have to consciously remind themselves to drink water so that they don’t collapse from dehydration. (I think, in considering Polio’s effect on the body’s motive nerve system, that this might indicate some overlap in the affected areas of the brain).

Anyway.., I was thinking that one might be able to deduce from the observed effects, (Super Empathy!), what parts of the cognitive human experience might suffer if those same cells were to become over-stressed and die off.

The result is that you end up with people who are naturally tuned to empathy-driven behavior and outlooks on life who, through drug damage, find themselves bereft or with a stunted ability to feel the full range of empathy. Wow! Self-identifying as a touchy feely person who can no longer connect properly to the very feelings they derived their personalities from! What they are left with is the intellectual rule system surrounding empathy-derived behavior. That remains strong, and since it is now the primary aspect of their liberal mind-set, it becomes the source feeding their personality construct and consequently, their sense of self worth. Self-identity being what it is, they aggressively act to protect that self-impression to the extent of engaging in cognitively dissonant thinking and outright denial/refusal to consider criticism.

Thus we might conclude that the end result of a population for whom empathy is king, but who can’t experience the emotion properly, is left in danger of descending into an authoritarian rule structure ostensibly based on empathy, but which is clearly divorced from the same. "Be nice and kind and understanding toward others. Or Else! -If you break the rules, we can only conclude that you must be destroyed with maximum prejudice and studied cruelty." (Bzzt. Brain fail.)

I think that would accurately describe many of the most toxic SJWs acting in the world today.
 
Last edited:

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#5
Mind you...

I’m not one to suggest that there is any single causative factor.

I’ve seen plenty of nervous wreck SJWs, I think probably suffering from things like veganism and toxic hormonal contaminants, for whom the idea of Safe Spaces and such occupy a truly important consideration in their lives; their nervous states present a slice of reality which seems silly and alien to people who have their wiring in a healthier condition, but which for them is as real as anything and for whom the struggle to ensure gentle, loving environments (so as to not over stimulate their fragile psyches) makes total sense.

It seems quite apparent that the ‘programmers’ employ a multi-faceted, interdisciplinary approach.

I wonder if at their 4D board meetings each department must work to justify their budget? If the anti-depressant initiative can’t demonstrate an effectiveness above 5% (or something) at moving the needle, then the resources claimed by that department may be put under review.

What's it like, I wonder, to have to worry about your job in 4D?
 

monotonic

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#6
I think the kind of legitimate safe space you describe might be a lot different from the kind of safe space they try to create for themselves. And I think that attempt has no boundaries. They would turn the whole world into a "safe space" if they could, and the authoritarian nightmare that would entail.
 

Aeneas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#7
It seems quite apparent that the ‘programmers’ employ a multi-faceted, interdisciplinary approach.
Very good point. In a sense it should be obvious, but for me at least it is becoming a little clearer just how all these approaches come together into the present situation that we are witnessing.

Another angle to the drug angle you mention and the turning empathy off in empathetic people is the German romanticists movement picked up and elaborated into different movements by Jung and Hitler and witnessed in todays postmodernists and/or liberal fascists. This angle is explored to some degree in an upcoming Sott article.

Then the scientific angle from the book Genetic Entropy that I just started to read about which Laura wrote:

He starts out by stating the Primary Axiom that underpins probably all academic intellectual activity in our world today: Life is life because random mutations at the molecular level are filtered through a reproductive sieve acting on the level of the whole organism.
This angle is equally important as it forces a materialistic worldview, cut off from the spiritual dimension, and which supports a nihilistic worldview, hedonism, postmodernism and on and on. It gives the basis for a view of materialistic freedom at the pinnacle which is without responsibility as there is nothing higher and thus no consequences.

And along with that comes the idea that truth is relative and suddenly we find most of humanity living in each their subjective illusory mind-bubbles, not paying attention to objective reality right and left. Programming complete and ready for the next step, which could be a souped up replay of the Third Reich, followed by a download into those genetically suitable STS bodies that remain. :scared:

Perhaps there was also quite a bit of meddling with the leadership in the church in the Middle Ages, which made it a cesspool of decadence and depravity so that it fostered a revolt and the birth of rationalism and materialism. That ponerological take over of the church never left and thus we have so many cases of pedophilia and abuse of power in the church today which are indefensible and which almost have forced people to cling to science, neo-Darwinism and materialism and nihilism.

End result of this seems to have been that life is no longer religion.

Just a few thoughts that were playing around after reading the initial post by Woodsman last night.
 

Woodsman

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#8
Very good point. In a sense it should be obvious, but for me at least it is becoming a little clearer just how all these approaches come together into the present situation that we are witnessing.

[...] End result of this seems to have been that life is no longer religion.
At 4D, one can see inside and outside the box at the same time. Objects from all sides at once. Cause and effect at the same moment across ‘time’.

This would certainly explain why the programming seems to carry such a dastardly cleverness. Every piece not just fitting into every other piece tightly, but each interdependent on the other, amplifying the overall effect. It’s like one of those Chinese puzzles where you just don’t have enough fingers to hold everything in place while you try to solve it. Or like a Rubic’s Cube, where you can’t just take a step by step approach, (Ah! The Green side is done! Now on to the Red.) Everything has to be come together at once, planned thirty counter-intuitive moves prior.

But it’s not genius. It’s just how 4D minds work.

Here's a rough breakdown of just a few of those interlocking pieces...

Safe Spaces, where consideration for creatures with a low tolerance for predatory stress is seen as necessary because vegan students have a low tolerance for predatory stress. But why did they become vegans in the first place? Why.., out of a desire to give consideration to creatures with a low tolerance for predatory stress.

When Safe Spaces are threatened, (by reality), it does not inspire people to become stronger in the ways required to overcome the actual cause of their emotional instability, but rather the impulse is to attack the world, turn it into one vast Safe Space. -The impulse to champion the weaker class becomes a rallying call. You are not less likely to embrace veganism, but now more likely, thus reinforcing one of the driving components behind emotional instability.

Okay, so that infernal machine is sort of chugging along. What else can be added?

How about the Gaia Earth Mother concept? -Where the Earth itself becomes a god, a loving pasture mother which can sustain all the gentle animals and loving vegans. But she is under attack by the masculine principle! Oh no! Daddy is hurting Mommy! The Patriarchy must be stopped!

(Though, the Patriarchy idea didn’t come from the Gaia concept, but rather from the political counter culture movements. Or was it the other way around? Another chicken/egg phenomenon).

The fallout from that particular mind-twist is evident in the world today, devolving into an attack on all things seen as ‘strong’ and ‘forceful’. ‘Competency’ gets dragged into the fight, (regardless of the fact that competency is a genderless concept), simply because competency is required for strength to have any useful effect. -You can’t have winners in any game without competency being a deciding factor.

Except that’s unfair! Winning results in losers! Being a loser is stressful. Winners are thus unwelcome in the Global Safe Space.

Hm.

Needs something more...

Enter the humble cell phone, handily piggybacking on mind-numbing electromagnetic field emitter technology, making everybody less capable of recognizing that the message in the medium is manipulative and destructive.

Everybody becomes a bird brain. -Their active thinking is reduced to something which can fit into a “tweet”. -Where ONLY surface responses and black and white analysis are allowed. Where virtue signaling is, (without a lot of extra effort), the only means of communication available. Deep analysis and long-form conversation are the primary means of revealing logical flaws in ideological premises. Instant messaging doesn’t make room for that as it becomes a primary mode of communication.

Like the way a dog gets ‘high’ from being petted, (lots of happy nerve endings in the scalp, apparently), one wonders if there wasn’t some kind of early set-up at the genetic level waaaaaay back in the beginning. (Remembering that ‘time’ doesn’t exist at 4D). -Humans are naturally coded to seek out public acceptance in their groups, to fit in. It’s the major theme in high school drama. Maybe that little feature isn't just a naturally occurring lobster dynamic bourn of hierarchical systems. Maybe it was tweaked into running overtime? Maybe a little MDMA was added to the mix long ago. Or maybe the cell phone was designed with just that purpose in mind today. In any case, we observe that the instant messaging phenomenon has become a 24/7 addition to the life of the average teen. Kids sleeping with their phones.

Brain-fuzzed from radiation, locked into a mind meld with their device, spending unbalanced amounts of energy developing that part of the brain responsible for communication and evaluation so that it only thinks a sentence or two at a time, surface thoughts only. Virtue signaling isn’t just a tool for gaining acceptance in the group, but it becomes the only tool the technology easily allows. (Or was that simply the result of natural market forces? It’s all so difficult to say.)

Anyway, such questions are hard to even recognize, let alone evaluate in 280 characters, so why bother?

Unfortunately, the real world, with all its cause and effect harshness, doesn’t reward that kind of limited thinking. It leads to pain and misery. How very stressful!

Maybe some kind of medication to manage mood and depression would be useful?

And around and around it goes.

Funnily enough, the C’s suggest that the 4D controllers aren’t especially clever. They’re not chess masters. They simply, by biological default, really DO see ten moves ahead. They’re better endowed. That’s not the same as working hard and thinking hard. You have to suffer to get the really good results. Are they suffering? Are they bringing their ‘A’ game to the table?

To bring your ‘A’ game, you can’t slip into the comfort zone where you buy your own B.S.. -Where if the notion that your 4D master plan being ‘trumped’ is unsettling, then throwing a tantrum and doubling down and refusing to take responsibility for errors and then retreating into their own 4D echo chamber maybe isn’t such a good idea.

Is that what’s going on in 4D?

As below, so above?

We can hope.
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#9
Persons treated with such drugs progressively tend to lose their emotional color and their ability to intuit a psychological situation. They retain their intellectual functions but become praise-craving egocentrics, easily ruled by people who know how to take advantage of this. They become indifferent to other people’s feelings and the harm they are inflicting upon them; any criticism of their own person or behavior is repaid with a vengeance. Such a change of character in a person who until recently enjoyed respect on the part of his environment or community, which perseveres in human minds, becomes a pathological phenomenon causing often tragic results.

[...]

Finally, polio attacks the brain, more often the higher part of the anterior horns, which was affected by the process. People with leg paresis rarely manifest these effects, but those with paresis of the neck and/or shoulders must count themselves lucky if they do not. In addition to affective pallor, persons manifesting these effects usually evidence naivete and an inability to comprehend the crux of a matter.

Sounds like the average person on Social Media. No drugs required.
 

Aeneas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#10
Sounds like the average person on Social Media. No drugs required.
Perhaps no drugs were required, but could it be due to this constant hysterization 24/7, where even weather events are overdramatized to create a constant underlying fear and exhausted adrenal glands which then helps to shut down the higher thought centers and perhaps even atrophies certain parts of the brain? Just a thought.
 

fabric

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
#11
Persons treated with such drugs progressively tend to lose their emotional color and their ability to intuit a psychological situation. They retain their intellectual functions but become praise-craving egocentrics, easily ruled by people who know how to take advantage of this. They become indifferent to other people’s feelings and the harm they are inflicting upon them; any criticism of their own person or behavior is repaid with a vengeance. Such a change of character in a person who until recently enjoyed respect on the part of his environment or community, which perseveres in human minds, becomes a pathological phenomenon causing often tragic results.

[...]
Sounds like the average person on Social Media. No drugs required.
That's the interesting thing with these social media sites. So dopamine appears to have a similar contribution to emotional regulation. And social media is designed with the explicit purpose the keep you there clicking away, constantly pushing those dopamine buttons which would likely lead to elevated dopamine levels. It stands to reason prolonged used would have the net effect of bringing a whole subset of people down to that level, where the loss of faculties in any ability to read reality are gone or greatly diminished.

There is also this paper, from the abstract:

Evidence from both human neuroimaging studies and animal-based research using neurodevelopmental, behavioral, and electrophysiological techniques have implicated the mesocorticolimbic DA circuit as a crucial system for the encoding and expression of emotionally salient learning and memory formation.
I'm thinking that there might be a connection there with how social media (in particular overuse) might affect these DA circuits.
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
#12
Perhaps no drugs were required, but could it be due to this constant hysterization 24/7, where even weather events are overdramatized to create a constant underlying fear and exhausted adrenal glands which then helps to shut down the higher thought centers and perhaps even atrophies certain parts of the brain? Just a thought.
Yeah, should have said no illegal drugs required. Lots of Westerners have their brains addled with prescription drugs and the general mind-bending drug that is the lies proffered ad-nauseum by the MSM.
 
Last edited:

Aeneas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#13
That's the interesting thing with these social media sites. So dopamine appears to have a similar contribution to emotional regulation. And social media is designed with the explicit purpose the keep you there clicking away, constantly pushing those dopamine buttons which would likely lead to elevated dopamine levels. It stands to reason prolonged used would have the net effect of bringing a whole subset of people down to that level, where the loss of faculties in any ability to read reality are gone or greatly diminished.
In line with and the effect of dopamine is the effect that sexualization of the population - not least geared to an ever younger audience - is having. Again the dopamine pathway is used, creating sexual addictions and making slaves of people, slaves to their lower instinctual centers, (which perhaps are there exactly by design for the express purpose of giving higher density STS denizens control of their creation. like an inbuilt cattleprod).

Here is the abstract from another paper exploring internet gaming and which also mentions porn addiction.
Neuroscience of Internet Pornography Addiction: A Review and Update

Abstract
Many recognize that several behaviors potentially affecting the reward circuitry in human brains lead to a loss of control and other symptoms of addiction in at least some individuals. Regarding Internet addiction, neuroscientific research supports the assumption that underlying neural processes are similar to substance addiction. The American Psychiatric Association (APA) has recognized one such Internet related behavior, Internet gaming, as a potential addictive disorder warranting further study, in the 2013 revision of their Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. Other Internet related behaviors, e.g., Internet pornography use, were not covered. Within this review, we give a summary of the concepts proposed underlying addiction and give an overview about neuroscientific studies on Internet addiction and Internet gaming disorder. Moreover, we reviewed available neuroscientific literature on Internet pornography addiction and connect the results to the addiction model. The review leads to the conclusion that Internet pornography addiction fits into the addiction framework and shares similar basic mechanisms with substance addiction. Together with studies on Internet addiction and Internet Gaming Disorder we see strong evidence for considering addictive Internet behaviors as behavioral addiction. Future research needs to address whether or not there are specific differences between substance and behavioral addiction.
 

JGeropoulas

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
#14
Mind you...

I’m not one to suggest that there is any single causative factor.

I’ve seen plenty of nervous wreck SJWs, I think probably suffering from things like veganism and toxic hormonal contaminants, for whom the idea of Safe Spaces and such occupy a truly important consideration in their lives; their nervous states present a slice of reality which seems silly and alien to people who have their wiring in a healthier condition, but which for them is as real as anything and for whom the struggle to ensure gentle, loving environments (so as to not over stimulate their fragile psyches) makes total sense.

It seems quite apparent that the ‘programmers’ employ a multi-faceted, interdisciplinary approach.

I wonder if at their 4D board meetings each department must work to justify their budget? If the anti-depressant initiative can’t demonstrate an effectiveness above 5% (or something) at moving the needle, then the resources claimed by that department may be put under review.

What's it like, I wonder, to have to worry about your job in 4D?
Funny to read your ponderings about 4D STS projects. Given the abundance of STS efforts across a wide range of fields, I've often imagined/wondered if all these complex efforts are the dissertation projects for students in some kind of 4D STS graduate school.
 
Top Bottom