Are you voting & why?


The Living Force

This question is directed at the American folk on this forum. I know that many of you believe (rightly so) that the voting system in America is totally out of whack. And the fact that the 2000 & 2004 elections were stolen. Baring all this in mind, I am very curious to know, will you vote on the 4th and why?

Personally I am Canadian, but my lack of faith in the legal system (not just the voting machines) gave me no desire to vote for any of the parties in our elections, that past just a little while a go.

But I’m wondering if people on this forum, who are familiar with SOTT material and such will actually go out and vote, and what their reasons would be.


Al Today

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
For nearly a half century, I barely voted. I would vote, and still might on local issues of community importance. This presidential election season, I’ve seen and heard what I think is a freakin’ extraordinary amount of what appears to me as political “advertisements”. On both television and radio. The arroganic slap on the face of it all… Enough already… Most of the time, voting is useless to me.


FOTCM Member
As given by Myth of myself in another thread:

George Carlin answered that question in that video:


I was too young to vote for JFK and remember when he was assassinated. I was still a kid, but never understood (and followed for years after) the theories on what really happened that day. The way I saw it then, it seemed like the "choices" went from bad to worse as time progressed.

Since my mid twenties, I had a hunch that somehow, someway there was an elite group of people who more or less ran the entire planet and they had no allegiances to any particular country. I even ventured to express that thought a few times and, to put it kindly, I was labeled as someone with an extremely active imagination. That was long before I found myself here and got a further education on the subject. All I can say now is that I was really not overjoyed to learn that not only was my hunch real close, the situation is much worse than I ever imagined it to be. On the other hand, I learned what I need to do and it has nothing to do with voting and everything to do with me becoming a candidate.......... of the STO kind. And, hopefully, we'll round up some more candidates of the same mind. None of us is free if one of us is chained.

I've only voted in one national election. I haven't voted since then. I think it's pointless.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Knowledge_of_self said:
This question is directed at the American folk on this forum. I know that many of you believe (rightly so) that the voting system in America is totally out of whack. And the fact that the 2000 & 2004 elections were stolen. Baring all this in mind, I am very curious to know, will you vote on the 4th and why?

Hi Nina,

There is more to this election than picking a presidential candidate. In fact there are quite a few state propositions and local measures on the ballot. For example, Prop 8 is a proposition to reverse gay marriage (to non-existence) in California.
Good governance starts at a local level and I do think it is important for those who are allowed to vote (unlike myself) on the propositions and measures.

This is my perspective as an up and close spectator.


Padawan Learner
The people who cast the votes decide nothing. The people who count the votes decide everything.

Joseph Stalin

We need to break free from the bonds that the PTB have placed upon us. By voting, you continue to support a system that does not serve the best interest of the people, nature, earth or the universe. If we are going to evolve as a species we must toss aside the old beliefs that our government is right for us.


The Living Force
Namaste said:
As given by Myth of myself in another thread:

George Carlin answered that question in that video:

Yes I saw that, and that is pretty much how i see it too ;D

There is more to this election than picking a presidential candidate. In fact there are quite a few state propositions and local measures on the ballot. For example, Prop 8 is a proposition to reverse gay marriage (to non-existence) in California.
Good governance starts at a local level and I do think it is important for those who are allowed to vote (unlike myself) on the propositions and measures.

I heard about this from several friends who are planning on voting NO on that proposition. I guess I didn't really think of it like that because my mind is more preoccupied with the really big election, that's in everyone's face all the time.

Pardon my ignorance on this issue, but are the ballots counted electronically for this kind of vote as well or written? I'm guessing it is most likely electronic and if that is the case; are we not looking at the same issue of "who's counting the votes" or if the votes are being counted correctly and not being reversed by the machine. Basically I think that there is still a fundamental problem with the way voting & counting votes have been conducted. I'm not saying there is a problem with the idea of democracy, in fact i think democracy is great if it's not toyed with by psychopathic people in places of power. I just wonder if voting on the propositions is even getting a fair result.

Myth of Myself

Padawan Learner
No. I am not voting.

While we're on the voting topic, I figure I'd have a go with a couple links that I feel are relevant. I send these links to folks who just won't let up on the importance of voting who most often than not seem to be old friends who pop out of nowhere by way of e-mail that I haven't heard from in years who claim they have, "seen the light" and somehow have come to equate political involvement as a life purpose to enact change.

The basic point that I try to get across to these folks (if I am in a Chatty Kathy mood) is that, "How do you expect to change or reform a corrupt system, playing by the very rules of the corrupt system you are attempting to change?" quite the paradox I'd say.

I enjoy many of George Carlin's musings from later in his life, I think this one is concise and to the point. It is different than the one referred to in the posting above.

I found this article to be a good analogy of the voting situation. I would imagine that most folks on this forum have already been drawn to the conclusion that voting changes nothing and if it did, it would be illegal.

It is a good one to circulate in the middle of the election craze to the pesky, persistent, political junkies who will be lining up this week to get their fix like crack fiends at a police drug-locker giveaway.

This is a passage from an article called, "The Grand Delusion" by Joel S. Hirschhorn and can be found in it's entirety at:

"One of the core reasons the two-party stranglehold on our political system persists is that whenever one party uses its power to an extreme degree it sets the conditions for the other party – its partner in the conspiracy – to take over. Then the other takes its turn in wielding excessive power. Most Americans – at least those that vote – seem incapable of understanding that the Democrats and Republicans are two teams in the same league, serving the same cabal running the corporatist plutocracy. By keeping people focused on rooting for one team or the other, the behind-the-scenes rulers ensure their invisibility and power.

The genius of the plutocrats is to create the illusion of important differences between the two parties, and the illusion of political choice in elections. In truth, the partner parties compete superficially and dishonestly to entertain the electorate, to maintain the aura of a democracy. Illusion creates the delusion of Americans that voting in elections will deliver political reforms, despite a long history of politicians lying in campaigns about reforms, new directions and bold new policies. The rulers need power shifting between the teams to maintain popular trust in the political system. Voting manifests that trust – as if changing people will fix the system. It doesn’t.

So voters become co-conspirators in the grand political criminal conspiracy. Those who vote for Democrats or Republicans perpetuate the corrupt, dishonest and elitist plutocracy that preferentially serves the interests of the Upper Class and a multitude of special interests – some aligned with the Republicans and some with the Democrats. Voting only encourages worthless politicians and those that fund and corrupt them.

Public discontent leads to settling for less through lesser evil voting rather than bold thinking about how to reform the system to get genuine political competition and better candidates and government.

I understand why sane people would not want to vote for Republicans, based on the Bush presidency. But I cannot understand why politically engaged people think that putting Democrats in power will restore American democracy and put the welfare of non-wealthy Americans above the interests of the wealthy and the business sector. Bill Clinton’s administration strongly advanced globalization and the loss of good jobs to foreign countries. Economic inequality kept rising. Trade agreements sold us out.

And in this primary season talk about reforming our health care system among Democrats never gets serious about providing universal health care independent of the insurance industry. And why should citizens be supportive of a party that favors illegal immigration – law breaking – that primarily serves business interests by keeping labor costs low?

Nor have Democrats stood up to challenge the official 9/11 story that no longer has any credibility to anyone that takes the time to seriously examine all its inconsistencies with what really happened and the laws of physics.

Whoever wins the Democratic presidential nomination will not be free of corruption and lies. He or she will owe paybacks to all the fat-cat campaign donors. Voters will be choosing the lesser-evil Democratic presidential candidate. Is that really the only choice? Is there no other action that can advance the national good?

There seem to be just two other choices. Vote for some third party presidential candidate, but the downside of that is twofold. No such candidate can win in the current rigged system. Worse, voting gives a stamp of credibility to the political system, as if it was fair, when it is not. Voting says that you still believe that the political system merits your support and involvement.

The second option is to boycott voting to show total rejection of the current political system and the plutocratic cabal using the two-party duopoly to carry out its wishes. When a democracy no longer is legitimate, no longer is honest, and no longer serves the interests of ordinary citizens, then what other than violent revolution can change it? When the electoral system no longer can provide honest, corruption free candidates with any chance of winning, what can citizens do? Either stay home or just vote in local and state races and for ballot measures.

I say remove the credibility and legitimacy of the federal government by reducing voter turnout to extremely low levels. Show the world that the vast majority of Americans have seen the light and no longer are deluding themselves about their two-party democracy. A boycott on voting for candidates for federal office is a form of civil disobedience that has enormous power to force true political reforms from the political system. This is the only way to make it crystal clear that the presidency and Congress no longer represent any significant fraction of the people. This is the only way to show that America’s representative democracy is no longer representative and, therefore, is no longer a credible democracy. Just imagine a federal government trying to function in the usual ways when only 20 percent of the eligible voters actually voted.

It takes more courage to boycott voting than to vote for lesser evil Democrats and in the end this is the only way for people to feel proudly patriotic. This is the only way to not contribute to the ongoing bipartisan criminal conspiracy running the federal government.

We have broken government because the spirit of Americans that gave us our revolution and nation’s birth has been broken, in large measure by distractive and self-indulgent consumerism. It is better to recognize that those who vote suffer from delusion than to criticize those who do not vote as apathetic. Non-delusional nonvoters recognize the futility of voting.

Democrats will not restore our democracy. That is the painful truth that most people will not readily accept. Such is the power of group delusion. Voting produces never-ending cycles of voter dissatisfaction with those elected, both Democrats and Republicans. It is time to break this cycle of voter despair. Voters that bitch and moan about Congress and the White House have nobody to blame but themselves, no matter which party they voted for."



Jedi Council Member
Until 2000 & W Bush, I had never heard of a manipulated election in America.
In 2004, I was disqualified because someone altered the last digit of my zip
code on my registration form from a "1" to an "8"
So yes, I am voting. Harder than ever.

"How McCain Could Win"

by Greg Palast

It's November 5 and the nation is in shock. Media blame it on the "Bradley effect": Americans supposedly turned into Klansmen inside the voting booth, and Barack Obama turned up with 6 million votes less than calculated from the exit polls. Florida came in for McCain and so did Indiana. Colorado, despite the Democrats' Rocky Mountain high after the Denver convention, stayed surprisingly Red. New Mexico, a state where Anglos are a minority, went McCain by 300 votes, as did Virginia.

That's the nightmare. Here's the cold reality.

Swing state Colorado. Before this election, two Republican secretaries of state purged 19.4 percent of the entire voter roll. One in five voters. Pfft!

Swing state New Mexico. One in nine voters in this year's Democratic caucus found their names missing from the state-provided voter registries. And not just any voters. County by county, the number of voters disappeared was in direct proportion to the nonwhite population. Gore won the state by 366 votes; Kerry lost it by only 5,900. Despite reassurances that all has been fixed for Tuesday, Democrats lost from the list in February told me they're still "disappeared" from the lists this week.

Swing state Indiana. In this year's primary, ten nuns were turned away from the polls because of the state's new voter ID law. They had drivers' licenses, but being in their 80s and 90s, they'd let their licenses expire. Cute. But what isn't cute is this: 566,000 registered voters in that state don't have the ID required to vote. Most are racial minorities, the very elderly and first-time voters; that is, Obama voters. Twenty-three other states have new, vote-snatching ID requirements.

Swing state Florida. Despite a lawsuit battle waged by the Brennan Center for Justice, the state's Republican apparatchiks are attempting to block the votes of 85,000 new registrants, forcing them to pass through a new "verification" process. Funny thing: verification applies only to those who signed up in voter drives (mostly black), but not to voters registering at motor vehicle offices (mostly white).

And so on through swing states controlled by Republican secretaries of state.

The Ugly Secret

Here's an ugly little secret about American democracy: We don't count all the votes. In 2004, based on the data from the US Elections Assistance Commission, 3,006,080 votes were not counted: "spoiled," unreadable and blank ballots; "provisional" ballots rejected; mail-in ballots disqualified.

This Tuesday, it will be worse. Much worse.

Read the rest here ...



The Living Force
I'm voting, mostly because it's fun. I know its a sham, but the local elections have a smaller probability of being rigged like the national ones - so it may be beneficial to vote in them. I'm also interested to see the new 'touch screen' machines that everyone's been talking about. I want an up close and personal voting experience with one to see what its like. If it acts goofy I'm gonna take video on my cell phone - can't hurt right?

Sure the candidates are the same, sure my vote for president won't matter, but I don't see any concrete reason it would hurt to vote. I'm not lieing to myself about it, and I may actually extract data from the experience that can help others understand election fraud. So why not?


Dagobah Resident
I'm voting. I figure if my vote weren't important, there wouldn't be such concerted effort to surpress, manipulate, or flip my vote to the other candidate.

I'm voting because there is such a pervasive feeling of "Why bother" that it must be serving someone's interests. Hey, if you can't surpress the vote, if you can convince everyone that his/her vote won't count, you don't have to go to all that trouble to steal the election. If the election will be stolen, I want them to sweat for it.

I'm voting because even though I am aware of all the fraud, cynicism, corruption, dishonesty, and lies of this campaign, I don't have to let its tactics influence the choices I make. And even if my vote is sabatoged, nullified, lost, or changed, I have carried out my intention to do what I think is right no matter and I have not allowed the corruption of the system to corrupt me.

That's a win as far as I'm concerned.



Dagobah Resident
I voted.

I realize that the choice is between the republicrats or democans and that there is no meaningful difference, however I agree with the idea that if it were not important to vote, it wouldn't be important to rig the outcome either.

The time and effort it takes to vote is small, and I still believe that if one cannot be bothered to vote, then one is not entitled to complain about the outcome.

Myth of Myself

Padawan Learner
Might as well chase the cheese in the maze huh? What else is there to do..........

So you're saying that if one doesn't participate in a known corrupt system, you have no right to complain about it?

Might as well join the military because they pay well and it's easy to just play along.

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