Asking for Trouble

[TheSpoon]

Last week I was feeling really happy and settled (and to some extent wondering when it was all going to go horribly wrong) and I said to the Universe "Ok, I'm ready for my next lesson". And right enough, two days later I find myself embroiled in a load of family stuff and arguing with my wife about this that and the other. And my favourite high strangeness number - 42 - is popping up all over the shop.

So what's going through my head now is:

1. This is good. No lessons are learned when there are no difficulties/challenges so I've asked for my next lesson and received as much as I can handle at the time.

2. This is bad. The only lesson I should be learning is: If you invite difficulty into your life, you'll get difficulty in your life.

3. It's interesting that I've rejected the thought of "this is a meaningless coincidence" out of hand. I'm such a believer of "all there is, is lessons" that I can't now accept that anything happens without meaning.

4. Perhaps at some level I knew things were about to change and so came up with "asking for lessons" as a way of giving myself some illusion of control in the process, when in fact I am entirely powerless whether life is easy or difficult.

5. It's not up to me to decide when or how I should be taught, and perhaps I make my lessons more difficult by "telling" the universe when I should have them.

6. Assuming that challenge is the only way to learn lessons, then it doesn't matter how/when/why lessons arrive, it only matters that they are experienced and the soul grows from it.

7. It's a major assumption that suffering is good for the soul. It's in TPTB's best interests to make us think that it's true. We're busy trying to turn the other cheek that we forget to duck.

8. It's an indication of STS nature and EGO function that these experiences are labelled as 'suffering' in the first place.

9. Deliberately choosing to experience difficulty (whether that choice is illusionary or not) reminds me of the choice made to change from long cycle to short cycle aka The Fall.

10. I've been looking at why these issues arise, but perhaps instead of examining the wiring under the board I should just be dealing with problems at face value. The lesson may be in answering the question, not answering the meta-question.

Comments?

 

[Sleepy]

Maybe you have learned certain lesson and now it's time for a test?

Or you are learning one of the bigest lessons- the suffering does not exist when other people's actions are placed under right perspective
and we use brakes on our ego drives and just relax and let it go (whatever it is, most probably it is not important, it is just a hook like most
of our everyday "problems."). This comes to my mind because yesterday I had a situation to which this can be applayed, so I did. Nothing happened
except that I haven't waisted my energy on leting other people make me nervous and angry. I figured that I realy don't have to be the one who has to make things "straight" all the time. And gues what? The world hasn't came to an end even though I tought it would. Some time it is better to just let it go and direct our energy on more important, constructive things or just enjoy life.

Hang on and be aware.

 

[Russ]

Maybe what caused all of this "family stuff" was caused much earlier on, before you said you were ready for the next lesson, but yeah it could be a "slap in the face", but who really knows for sure? Something I learnt is a lesson is usually lots of little ones, which can make up a big one, etc. The more you learn the less they are made up of small ones. As the C's say it seems to be a step by step process. You could have the same huge lesson over and over, and it can get smaller and smaller each time.

One thing is fairly certain, we'll always be experiencing lessons. Lessons come all the time. Then you either learn from them or don't, and wait for them to come around again. Is suffering pointless? Maybe only if you don't learn from it? I don't know. Maybe everything helps. Then you get into philosophy, like, whats the point in learning anyway, wheres the end? But generally I find these unanswerable questions (at least where we are, as humans), as beside the point, when you have made a decision to accept that lessons will happen whether you think they're pointless or not.

Maybe asking for lessons will get you some, but if you have lessons to learn they will come eventually anyway, osit. I understand its not always nice though.

 

[Johnno]

So what did you learn today?

 

[TheSpoon]

Good question Johnno. I think thoughts 6 and 10 seem the most useful.

Assuming that lessons are necessary for spritual progress, it doesn't really matter if 'inviting' them into your life has any effect on them or not. The cliché "When the student is ready, the teacher appears", suggests that whether or not I recognise that I'm ready to learn something and ask for it or not, it'll come my way regardless.

In the argument I got into this morning I spent too much thought looking at the unlikely circumstances and mechanical behaviours that brought it about, and should have focused more on what I was actually being accused of - "correcting" - an unpleasant habit that both my Dad and my wife's Dad engage in and apparently I've learned too.

 

[clearmiddle]

...I...should have focused more on what I was actually being accused of - "correcting" - an unpleasant habit that both my Dad and my wife's Dad engage in and apparently I've learned too.

What do you mean by "correcting?" It could mean different things.

 

[TheSpoon]

Correcting as in: When someone says something incorrect, correct them. Very irritating, especially when it makes no material difference to the conversation. You'll have heard couples doing it:
"And then it was last March that we ..."
"Actually it was April, Darling"
AAARRRRGGGHHHH

In this case my wife pronounced a word wrong in a song she was singing. I observed the impulse to correct as it rose in me and suppressed it, but I still smiled - which I imagine looked very smug to my wife - and got busted for it. Then of course I had to say how I thought the word should be pronounced instead. Which was the weird part, even though I halted the impulse to correct, I ended up being invited to correct, and exactly the same argument ensued as if I'd just interrupted her in the first place. Which led to a lot of thought about being trapped in lesson learning.

 

[Russ]

You got into a serious argument over that? Seems a bit odd.

 

[clearmiddle]

In the argument I got into this morning ...<snip>

Correcting as in: When someone says something incorrect, correct them. Very irritating, especially when it makes no material difference to the conversation... <snip>

As a frequent "correctee," I think I understand now. You are saying, then, that your "correcting," even with a nonverbal cue, triggered an argument, as opposed to complicating an argument already in progress?

<snip> ...I ... should have focused more on what I was actually being accused of - "correcting"...<snip>

So learning to focus on what you are being accused of was the lesson?

I mispronounce a lot of words myself, and my partner corrects me. It bothers me a little, but it has made me aware of a problem that I didn't know I had. What really bothers me is that I have been mispronouncing so many words for so long without realizing it or being told by anyone else. It's worse than going around with tags hanging out of your clothes, maybe. So I don't think that "correcting" by itself is a problem, or necessarily leads to arguments.

Is it possible that you two may have a kind of rehearsed routine in which you engage, and that a smile from you at a certain point is enough to signal "let's go at it again." If so, is there a reward in it for you? How does it make you feel when this happens?

 

[PepperFritz]

In this case my wife pronounced a word wrong in a song she was singing. I observed the impulse to correct as it rose in me and suppressed it, but I still smiled - which I imagine looked very smug to my wife - and got busted for it. Then of course I had to say how I thought the word should be pronounced instead. Which was the weird part, even though I halted the impulse to correct, I ended up being invited to correct, and exactly the same argument ensued as if I'd just interrupted her in the first place. Which led to a lot of thought about being trapped in lesson learning.

But you did not actually "halt the impulse to correct". You only resisted the impulse to verbally correct, and could not stop yourself from correcting via a condescending smile. So you did not "end up being invited to correct". Your wife recognized -- quite rightly -- that you were still "correcting", just non-verbally. And you didn't "have to say" how the word should have been pronounced. You *could* have said "Gee, there I go again, being so petty about something so trivial. Why can't I seem to stop myself even though I know it irritates you and leads to tension between us?" Instead, you chose to mechanically follow the same old scripted argument and dynamic between yourself and your wife.

Have you thought about WHY you have the need to correct your wife, and what it is you keep getting out of it?

 

[TheSpoon]

You got into a serious argument over that? Seems a bit odd.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not married, Russ? Also, I didn't say that it was serious. What made you make that assumption?

You are saying, then, that your "correcting," even with a nonverbal cue, triggered an argument, as opposed to complicating an argument already in progress?

Exactly, although triggered an argument that has happened before (as you suggest below), rather than starting a completely new one.

Is it possible that you two may have a kind of rehearsed routine in which you engage, and that a smile from you at a certain point is enough to signal "let's go at it again." If so, is there a reward in it for you? How does it make you feel when this happens?

Well it's certainly happened a couple of times since I committed to stop correcting and apparently switched from verbal to non-verbal. The original reward for the correcting was validation of "I'm Oh So Clever". Now I'm smiling because I'm amused at myself that I've got this impulse programmed to correct things that are completely trivial - even when it's against my own interests. But I guess that's still "I'm Oh So Clever" coming into play because I'm congratulating myself for my self-observation and spiritual development. Which probably looks pretty smug and Ding Dong Round 3 ensues. But there's no reward in causing the argument - I feel bad all day afterwards, which is why I'm posting about it, looking for a way out of that cycle.

What I'm looking for is: When I spot what I think is a mistake, make a conscious decision as to whether it's in everyone's best interests that I correct it, without looking like a smug know-it-all. And of course it's often only an opinion - as in the case of pronouncing a word.

But you did not actually "halt the impulse to correct". You only resisted the impulse to verbally correct, and could not stop yourself from correcting via a condescending smile. So you did not "end up being invited to correct". Your wife recognized -- quite rightly -- that you were still "correcting", just non-verbally. And you didn't "have to say" how the word should have been pronounced. You *could* have said "Gee, there I go again, being so petty about something so trivial. Why can't I seem to stop myself even though I know it irritates you and leads to tension between us?"

Whoa, easy there PepperFritz! I'm sharing intimate details of my family life here, it's a sensitive subject you know? It's not like I've chosen to behave like this, and I'm neither proud of, nor enjoying, my behaviour. Well, maybe a bit proud that I'm doing something about it. I feel like you're baring down on me with that mirror you're holding up. But yes, you're quite correct, all this is true. We spoke about it last night and agreed that the next time the situation arises, the first words out of my mouth will be an apology followed by "your singing is beautiful, Darling, I am a hopeless shmuck full of flaws and I'm lucky to have you".

Instead, you chose to mechanically follow the same old scripted argument and dynamic between yourself and your wife.

No, I didn’t "choose", I just "did".

Have you thought about WHY you have the need to correct your wife, and what it is you keep getting out of it?

I think I mentioned in my second post that my Dad has always been doing it? Also in this particular case, I had a choirmaster for many years who was a fanatic for exact pronunciation in singing. As per above, I get "I'm Oh So Clever" validated and I'll pin the need for that on my parents too. "They Fmess you up, your Mum and Dad, they do not mean to, but they do." That's a major component of my personality actually, that need to be seen to be smart. In some ways it's useful because it's gotten me through college and into a good job, but it also causes problems, as in this case.

Thanks for your feedback, all.

 

[Russ]

You got into a serious argument over that? Seems a bit odd.

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're not married, Russ? Also, I didn't say that it was serious. What made you make that assumption?

No I'm not married ;)

By serious I just meant, it was taken seriously. Ie: instead of just being annoyed by it and giving you a look, or saying "I know what you're thinking!", it went into an argument. I just don't see how there can be much to say about that, or that theres much to argue over. I can see how it would start an argument, but can't see how the argument can carry on with only that as "fuel". Seems like theres more to it thats all.

 

[PepperFritz]

Whoa, easy there PepperFritz! I'm sharing intimate details of my family life here, it's a sensitive subject you know? It's not like I've chosen to behave like this, and I'm neither proud of, nor enjoying, my behaviour. Well, maybe a bit proud that I'm doing something about it. I feel like you're baring down on me with that mirror you're holding up. But yes, you're quite correct, all this is true. We spoke about it last night and agreed that the next time the situation arises, the first words out of my mouth will be an apology followed by "your singing is beautiful, Darling, I am a hopeless shmuck full of flaws and I'm lucky to have you".

I apologize for "bearing down" on you. I can strongly relate to your situation, as I was a compulsive "correcter" for many years, though for slightly different reasons. I saw my own past behaviour in your description, and obviously projected shame about myself onto to you in my reply. That was unfair, and I apologize.

For me, it really did come down to seeing that I was "choosing" to indulge my need for self-importance at the expense of those around me. Or perhaps "choosing" to behave automatically rather than to practice self-awareness. Sharing the deep-seated feelings of inadequacy at the root at the problem also helped to "break the spell" somehow, to expose the behaviour as a mask rather than a weapon.

I find that compulsive behaviour is usually more related to the need to push away "bad" feelings than just to feel "good" ones. So I'm wondering if in your case there's more to it than just a "I'm so clever" reward attached to the behaviour. Perhaps you do it more when you've experienced some inadequacy during your day, or maybe there are shame issues connected with your parents? Just some suggestions, I could be way off base....

 

[TheSpoon]

I can see how it would start an argument, but can't see how the argument can carry on with only that as "fuel". Seems like theres more to it thats all.

Very true. In marriage there's almost always more to it than that.

In this case a 5am start by the wee man (both), worries about moving house (me), childhood sensitivity about singing (her), and a soupcon of "Don't you suppress my energy" - a related perennial argument (her).

Or perhaps "choosing" to behave automatically rather than to practice self-awareness.

Perhaps not choosing to behave automatically, but just failing to choose to practice self-awareness. Why did you feel the need to correct people?

I find that compulsive behaviour is usually more related to the need to push away "bad" feelings than just to feel "good" ones.

Yes, you could well have something there. In the 2 minutes before the argument kicked off, I'd been telling the wife about how a discussion we'd had the previous evening about us planning to move house had left me feeling a bit vulnerable - I was moved house when I was 4 and lost a lot of friends (or perhaps minions is, regrettably, more accurate) so I might explore that a bit further. Yes, and I need to show I'm clever because if I'm not clever then Daddy won't love me.

OK, good work. Thanks PepperFritz.

 

[Miss Isness]

Hi all,

The spoon, I'm curious if your wife detects an air of superiority in your corrections, or simply objects to being corrected in general. I've noticed that being very sensitive to tone of voice, I can detect a lot about how a person views me by how they give correction. Giving and receiving correction is a big part of my life since I teach English as a foreign language, and I'm living in Italy and always trying to perfect my Italian. There's no question that being corrected can be annoying at times, no matter what the attitude of the person giving correction, but it's usually appreciated when the intention is to help the person you're correcting learn.

I think it's important to learn how to correct in a way that actually gives people something, rather than taking something away. Of course, the main issue seems to be acquiring the ability to understand when to correct and when not to, but it could also be useful to learn how to do it in a truly helpful way.