Back to Work...Family troubles...Advice needed...

Jones

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
In my initial post you can see that I texted him to let him know that he has become an uncle and his response was basically just congratulations. That's it! Like he doesn't care, and I know he does.
I think you're gonna just have to bite the bullet and contact him, sure he may dodge it or not respond, but then you will know for sure that he either doesn't want to or isn't ready yet. You could even include a line to that effect 'hey, I know you're angry at me, I'd like to know why, but I know it's your choice as to whether or not to talk about it, but I'll be ready to listen to you if ever you do'. If he still avoids, then you will just have to leave him be until he is ready.

I had a thought - is there any reason why your brother may have needed to be paid back cash rather than taking a share of equity in a property? Not being paid back in cash may have left him in a problematic situation that he may not have been willing or able to talk about.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
A sort of worse... I consider you three brothers lucky to be independent financially since otherwise you would face traditional parents' real estate blackmail: if you don't do this or that (confirm to their whims) we'll leave everything to others... In the name of Parental Love of course:barf:

Seems to me that your brother is loosing the plot, which is only worsened by your parents' proposal to try to push the home of you all to their own very "beloved" sons, and your mother could've played a major role here (Nobody here sells home/house to there own children, NOBODY; which is like regular practice in the West; so i understand your brother regarding this issue). If that house is on some Dalmatian island no wonder that greed overtook some... Greed is sickness and is epidemic in Dalmatia nowadays due to soaring prices of real estates - the most expensive rocks in wider Milky Way).

And you should understand that all those Happy Family Tails are just freakin' FAIRYTALES (Thank You Grimm brothers). So maybe your older brother was wright, espetially considering he was the one supporting your parents, and other two of you who agreed to purchase "your own home" - plainly WRONG

FWIW

👹
Thanks for the reply Yozilla. There is absolutely zero real estate blackmail here. My parents are normal people who never imposed anything on any of us. Forget about those backward ideas. This was not about buying the house, per se. My parents were in a situation where they had to sell it, so the idea was to keep it in the family this way (and possibly get the money back when this other piece of land got sold, if we wished so). Otherwise, they would just sell it and give us three most of the money. He refused (that's the middle brother, the older one is the prodigal son whose galivanting in a way caused this whole situation, although my parents take half that blame for letting him), but only after consulting his significant other. And that should have ended there and then, but he obviously got very pissed at the whole situation. And I would even understand if he were just pissed at our parents (who never spent a dime on themselves in their life), but why is he pissed at me? Because I decided to buy in? He said he didn't care, and he's still getting his share in the will. The oldest brother mostly just stayed out of it since he spent all his money on booze and drugs, apparently.
This was all pretty reasonable and that's why I feel that it's down to his dear girlfriend.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
I think you're gonna just have to bite the bullet and contact him, sure he may dodge it or not respond, but then you will know for sure that he either doesn't want to or isn't ready yet. You could even include a line to that effect 'hey, I know you're angry at me, I'd like to know why, but I know it's your choice as to whether or not to talk about it, but I'll be ready to listen to you if ever you do'. If he still avoids, then you will just have to leave him be until he is ready.

I had a thought - is there any reason why your brother may have needed to be paid back cash rather than taking a share of equity in a property? Not being paid back in cash may have left him in a problematic situation that he may not have been willing or able to talk about.
Thanks for the advice. That's sort of what I'm thinking to do, or call him with the same spiel.
He is well off. He doesn't need the money at all. Him and his girlfriend have been living in the same rented apartment for 12 years, no intention of having kids, getting married or moving out to something of their own, and I'd guess they have at least 10 times as much saved than they are owed (well, my brother is owed). That's what I fear, that he's losing it cooped up over there, almost no friends that he didn't alienate already, talking about her job day in, day out, because that's all she knows to talk about. I know I'd go nuts.
 

Alana

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
You could try calling him, and if he doesn't answer - or he does, but he is not open to talking to you - then send him an e-mail. As Joe said, it can be your opportunity to express how you feel honestly and ask your questions. And as you said, without blaming, or implicating anyone else. Just "this is how I feel...., I don't understand why....., I wish.....," etc.

You also have to keep in mind that, while you are in a place in your life where you want to have this contact/communication with him, your brother might not be in the same place... yet or ever. So you might have to be prepared to accept that and allow him the time he needs to make the move from his part if he ever feels like he wants to. At least your call/e-mail will be an open invitation to him. He will know he is welcomed to respond whenever he is ready. Or so I think.
 

kenlee

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
That's where my brother just went crazy. He started having these crazy theories about the house being sold to my wife's parents, which is ridiculous and irrelevant since he himself said he wanted nothing to do with it and didn't care what happened with the house.
After that, I called him several times to meet up, like we used to, but he always had an excuse or just wasn't "in the mood". So I stopped calling him. I haven't seen him in 2.5 years and haven't heard from him either, except when I notified him that he has become an uncle by text. I couldn't bring myself to call him and I was hoping he would call back, but all he did was reply with a generic congratulatory text that you would send an acquaintance not a brother. During this time, he is very chummy with this other nephew, my other brother's semi-estranged son of 13.
Usually, at least from my experience, when a family member (or anyone for that matter) 'flips out' out of narcissistic rage then they are looking for a response (such as signs of submission) that shows them that they are in control. If they don't see the desired response then they may get even angrier or, perhaps, won't talk to you for a long time. But in the end, I think, it's all a game to them like a cat playing with a mouse.

If you get upset, feel guilty, or suffer in some way that is noticeable to them then they calm down because they passed the psychic poison in them to you which is their desired objective. Even if they 'calm down' because they visibly upset you it still doesn't mean that things will get better. It just means that they got you upset and this is what they wanted to show that they are still the boss, in control. Then they feel better because their narcissistic 'stress' is relieved when you experience real emotional stress from their actions. It's like a game they are playing and if you enter that game then this dynamic will just revolve around itself, forever, and never get reconciled.

I'd say to always leave the door open but act strategically and stay inwardly free and never allow yourself to get upset inwardly so as to enable his actions by participating in his game. Work towards that. I know it isn't easy, maybe even impossible, but it will at least allow you to preserve your own precious emotional energy so as to allow you to utilize it for your own life and for the rest of your family.

It's very possible that your brothers girlfriend (as you mentioned) is edging him on in all this to reinforce his narcissistic actions. But always best to look for objective facts to validate your suspicions.
 

stellar

Dagobah Resident
FOTCM Member
He is well off. He doesn't need the money at all. Him and his girlfriend have been living in the same rented apartment for 12 years, no intention of having kids, getting married or moving out to something of their own, and I'd guess they have at least 10 times as much saved than they are owed (well, my brother is owed). That's what I fear, that he's losing it cooped up over there, almost no friends that he didn't alienate already, talking about her job day in, day out, because that's all she knows to talk about. I know I'd go nuts.
Sounds to me like he has made his choice, right or wrong by your perspective. I think you openly gave him that chance when you informed him that he had become an uncle. Response; congratulations and whatever. Seems like he is following his own decisions and has moved on. It sounds like you are the one with the discomfort of 'letting go' from what I hear. He does not seemed fazed.

You may be assuming that he is cooped up or being henpecked or whatever and is not behaving correctly according to you. IMO if he does not reach out on his own, let him be. You now have a family of your own and probably don't need to be focusing on your brothers' problems whether imagined or real. They are adults and have made their own choices just as you are now a parent and have the chance to raise your family with your values through lessons you have learned. FWIW
 

duyunne

Jedi Council Member
I've had a similar experience with a cousin I was close to. We were room mates and enjoyed the conversation and lack of responsibilities. Then he had a child, and just before this child was born, I moved out of his home and onto my own story with my own girlfriend who eventually became my wife.

I think he had his heart set with his family and the odd 'uncle/cousin' "dude" type in the basement he can escape to or rely on and I up and slammed that vision down literally within a week.

He won't admit it, but I can tell he feels that I abandoned him. He relied on my lack of my own responsibilities to who I am supposed to be so he could have a commandant to reach out to when ever he wanted and I walked away from that role. He's never appreciated anything about me since and we haven't talked in many years. He too blames me for this lack of correspondence despite my attempts to have dialogue with him.

In your story, you describe a personal revolution or change in values and behaviors, especially with the development of your personal family (getting married, congrats!).

It seems that the lofty bro he can hang out with all hours of the night like you used to be became unavailable to him. I think it's likely he harbors an unconscious resentment for this and he refuses to engage in understanding it.
 

hlat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The problem is, that the family was in a dire financial situation for a long time and he was called upon to help by our parents, which he did happily. This stopped years ago, but not all of the money was returned yet.
Do you owe him any money?

Is the deed to the house in your name?

This was all pretty reasonable and that's why I feel that it's down to his dear girlfriend.
Why do you blame her when he chose her and stays with her? Do you think he doesn't know the disdain you have for his partner? I wouldn't talk to my brother either if my brother hated my partner.

Yeah, that sounds good, but it won't work, I'm afraid. I know him.
You know him so well that you don't know why he's not talking to you.

If you didn't notice, this thread is in the Work section, and what you're saying is way off in that regard.
That was unkind of you. He was not way off. You're the one way off. But it's all too common for people to disregard the advice they've asked for.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
Do you owe him any money?

Is the deed to the house in your name?
No and no.

Why do you blame her when he chose her and stays with her? Do you think he doesn't know the disdain you have for his partner? I wouldn't talk to my brother either if my brother hated my partner.
As if people generally do what's best for them and have relations with people that are good for them. He doesn't know the disdain I have for her. I was always nothing but polite and never showed anything outwardly that would show him or her that I am annoyed and unsure about her motives and intentions.

You know him so well that you don't know why he's not talking to you.
Well, as you can see, I have my ideas, but I'm not sure. That's why I'm posting here.

That was unkind of you. He was not way off. You're the one way off. But it's all too common for people to disregard the advice they've asked for.
His advice was to do something and if it doesn't work, I can tell myself that I tried and can go on with my life without blaming myself. To me, that is entirely incompatible with the Work. This requires external considering, not a way to alleviate my internal considering. Besides, if I failed, I'd lose my brother forever, which is a terrible outcome, not something I could live with just because I can tell myself that I tried.
 
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Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
I've had a similar experience with a cousin I was close to. We were room mates and enjoyed the conversation and lack of responsibilities. Then he had a child, and just before this child was born, I moved out of his home and onto my own story with my own girlfriend who eventually became my wife.

I think he had his heart set with his family and the odd 'uncle/cousin' "dude" type in the basement he can escape to or rely on and I up and slammed that vision down literally within a week.

He won't admit it, but I can tell he feels that I abandoned him. He relied on my lack of my own responsibilities to who I am supposed to be so he could have a commandant to reach out to when ever he wanted and I walked away from that role. He's never appreciated anything about me since and we haven't talked in many years. He too blames me for this lack of correspondence despite my attempts to have dialogue with him.

In your story, you describe a personal revolution or change in values and behaviors, especially with the development of your personal family (getting married, congrats!).

It seems that the lofty bro he can hang out with all hours of the night like you used to be became unavailable to him. I think it's likely he harbors an unconscious resentment for this and he refuses to engage in understanding it.
This is very interesting. I don't think I have considered this possibility at all, although it was somewhere in the back of my head. I definitely need to take this into account before proceeding to re-establish contact. Thanks
 

Gruchaa

Jedi
Worse would be if I never got my brother back. You're advice is basically "Do this, and if it doesn't work, the hell with it". If you didn't notice, this thread is in the Work section, and what you're saying is way off in that regard. I need to practice external consideration here, not try to make myself feel better (which is not going to happen anyway if I screw up)
His advice was to do something and if it doesn't work, I can tell myself that I tried and can go on with my life without blaming myself. To me, that is entirely incompatible with the Work. This requires external considering, not a way to alleviate my internal considering. Besides, if I failed, I'd lose my brother forever, which is a terrible outcome, not something I could live with just because I can tell myself that I tried.
That was not nice response, especially I am not attacking you and sharing just some insight and answers which you asked for :)
I can read and also know that Work means lot of things, not only to "pondering all the time what I should do". It's also acting. Additionally it's also to knowing/learning when you need to "let it go" ;)
If you will do everything what you possibly can and it will still not fix the problems with your brother - will you still blaming yourself? You cannot force nobody to love you, to like you or to hang out with you if the other person do not want this (or is not ready). That is why you need to let it go sometimes, even it is not "what you want or you are afraid losing it".

And in the other hand - if you won't contact your brother, based on what you have wrote, already you have lost him (you are not talking with him for 2.5 years).

You will do, whatever you will do or not do. Take care!
 

Joe

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
His advice was to do something and if it doesn't work, I can tell myself that I tried and can go on with my life without blaming myself. To me, that is entirely incompatible with the Work. This requires external considering, not a way to alleviate my internal considering.
It's not incompatible with the work, and in pursuing this "walking on eggshells" approach with your brother you are actually engaging in internal considering. Based on what you have written, your brother is being an asshole, and yet the only thing that concerns you is keeping him on good terms with you, or not making him act more like an asshole which you fear could happen if you are direct and honest with him. What kind of relationship is it when the other person acts like an asshole when you are direct and honest with them?

I already told you how to deal with it, it's not rocket science: be honest and direct with him. Yet since then, you've nitpicking and quibbled your way through a couple of pages of topic.

Besides, if I failed, I'd lose my brother forever, which is a terrible outcome, not something I could live with just because I can tell myself that I tried.
So he either has to be friends with you like before, "or else". Doesn't leave much room for his free will, or your acceptance that sometimes people just need to go their own way and learn their lessons. Overall, (and with the tone and "thinking" you've been doing in another topic) it seems to me that there's probably a heavy dose of the narcissistic family going on here with all concerned, you included obviously.
 
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Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
That was not nice response, especially I am not attacking you and sharing just some insight and answers which you asked for :)
I can read and also know that Work means lot of things, not only to "pondering all the time what I should do". It's also acting. Additionally it's also to knowing/learning when you need to "let it go" ;)
If you will do everything what you possibly can and it will still not fix the problems with your brother - will you still blaming yourself? You cannot force nobody to love you, to like you or to hang out with you if the other person do not want this (or is not ready). That is why you need to let it go sometimes, even it is not "what you want or you are afraid losing it".

And in the other hand - if you won't contact your brother, based on what you have wrote, already you have lost him (you are not talking with him for 2.5 years).

You will do, whatever you will do or not do. Take care!
I didn't intend it to be "not nice".
This was your original comment:
Hmm, I do not understand... You are saying that you need to contact him, but on the other hand you are telling that you won't do that, because it can make him more mad/sad/etc?? What he can do? Right now you are not talking with him for 2.5 years, right? What could be worse? He will be offended and will not speak even more? If yes, than this will be his choice and you won't at least blame yourself for doing nothing
Which was in response to this comment of mine:
Yeah, that sounds good, but it won't work, I'm afraid. I know him. He'll just say act like nothing happened, but if I try to set up a meet, he'll be busy. He is in avoidance mode not wanting to address the issue, so I'm going to have to take this head on, without giving him any wiggle room. Now, that will be a difficult thing to do in a balanced way.
An email is still an option, but it's going to have to be way more to the point.
Which was in response to this comment of yours:
Hi Revolucionar. If you do not know how to start just say Hi Brother, we haven't spoken long time, what's up?

Or write an e-mail like Joe wrote. E-mails are not impersonal! They are 21st Century letters. Letters were always more personal than talk due to time to rethink each word!!!

Do this and than come back here ;) Good luck!
As you can see, I am meaning to contact him, possibly by email, but looking for a way that will be as externally considerate as possible. Saying this: "You are saying that you need to contact him, but on the other hand you are telling that you won't do that, because it can make him more mad/sad/etc?? What he can do? Right now you are not talking with him for 2.5 years, right? What could be worse? He will be offended and will not speak even more? If yes, than this will be his choice and you won't at least blame yourself for doing nothing" is entirely incompatible with the concept of external considering, in my opinion.

In any case, all of this is being very helpful and it's bringing me closer to figuring it out. Thanks
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
It's not incompatible with the work, and in pursuing this "walking on eggshells" approach with your brother you are actually engaging in internal considering. Based on what you have written, your brother is being an asshole, and yet the only thing that concerns you is keeping him on good terms with you, or not making him act more like an asshole which you fear could happen if you are direct and honest with him. What kind of relationship is it when the other person acts like an asshole when you are direct and honest with them?

I already told you how to deal with it, it's not rocket science: be honest and direct with him. Yet since then, you've nitpicking and quibbled your way through a couple of pages of topic.



So he either has to be friends with you like before, "or else". Doesn't leave much room for his free will, or your acceptance that sometimes people just need to go their own way and learn their lessons. Overall, (and with the tone and "thinking" you've been doing in another topic) it seems to me that there's a heavy dose of the narcissistic family going on here with all concerned, you included obviously.
Yes, he's being an asshole, but that doesn't mean that I have to be one. I'm merely trying to be strategic and be prepared for whatever comes after contacting him. Since I'm coming across as nitpicky, I'll stop. Thanks for the mirror. He doesn't have to be friends with me like before, but I don't want to give him more reason to be the way he is. I mean, I already gave up on calling him after being snubbed several times. I want to see if I can fix this in any way. I don't see what's so narcissistic about me. Really. I'd appreciate it very much if you could give me a clue.
 

DianaRose94

Jedi Master
It's not incompatible with the work, and in pursuing this "walking on eggshells" approach with your brother you are actually engaging in internal considering. Based on what you have written, your brother is being an asshole, and yet the only thing that concerns you is keeping him on good terms with you, or not making him act more like an asshole which you fear could happen if you are direct and honest with him. What kind of relationship is it when the other person acts like an asshole when you are direct and honest with them?

I already told you how to deal with it, it's not rocket science: be honest and direct with him. Yet since then, you've nitpicking and quibbled your way through a couple of pages of topic.



So he either has to be friends with you like before, "or else". Doesn't leave much room for his free will, or your acceptance that sometimes people just need to go their own way and learn their lessons. Overall, (and with the tone and "thinking" you've been doing in another topic) it seems to me that there's a heavy dose of the narcissistic family going on here with all concerned, you included obviously.
But there's even another angle. Perhaps, the one acting badly in the relationship might have been you all along and not your brother and he got fed up. Also, if you're as argumentative and defensive as you are here in real life, I can understand why he might have had enough. Sometimes, the way you think you present yourself to people and the way you truly are is completely different. And perhaps, your brother's partner though she may have flaws isn't so bad and she might have been right to pull him away?

Also, 2.5 years is very long. I don't know but in my opinion, if you truly want to see someone, you will see that person. Heck, you could have even visited your brother quickly at his home. Maybe your brother didn't want to see you, but unconsciously you might have been fine with it. I don't know based on what you said, it seems like you might have been judgemental on his life choice (not having kids), his stability, and the fact that he and his girlfriend are well-off. Your entire relationship with your brother seems off. Honestly, I have attended baby showers of people I barely knew and I've seen other people do that. And usually it is common for people to visit acquaintance when there's a new baby in the family. So, it seems very strange that your brother would send you just a congratulation text without trying to visit.

The other thing you might consider, is that perhaps, you guys never had the relationship you think you had. Also, perhaps, your family is just not as close as you thought and your parents didn't raise their sons to be close to each other in the way that you thought.
 
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