Back to Work...Family troubles...Advice needed...

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
But there's even another angle. Perhaps, the one acting badly in the relationship might have been you all along and not your brother and he got fed up. Also, if you're as argumentative and defensive as you are here in real life, I can understand why he might have had enough. Sometimes, the way you think you present yourself to people and the way you truly are is completely different. And perhaps, your brother's partner though she may have flaws isn't so bad and she might have been right to pull him away?

Also, 2.5 years is very long. I don't know but in my opinion, if you truly want to see someone, you will see that person. Heck, you could have even visited your brother quickly at his home. Maybe your brother didn't want to see you, but unconsciously you might have been fine with it. I don't know based on what you said, it seems like you might have been judgemental on his life choice (not having kids), his stability, and the fact that he and his girlfriend are well-off. Your entire relationship with your brother seems off. Honestly, I have attended baby showers of people I barely knew and I've seen other people do that. And usually it is common for people to visit acquaintance when there's a new baby in the family. So, it seems very strange that your brother would send you just a congratulation text without trying to visit.

The other thing you might consider, is that perhaps, you guys never had the relationship you think you had. Also, perhaps, your family is just not as close as you thought and your parents didn't raise their sons to be close to each other in the way that you thought.
Food for thought. Thanks
 

Joe

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Yes, he's being an asshole, but that doesn't mean that I have to be one. I'm merely trying to be strategic and be prepared for whatever comes after contacting him. Since I'm coming across as nitpicky, I'll stop. Thanks for the mirror. He doesn't have to be friends with me like before, but I don't want to give him more reason to be the way he is. I mean, I already gave up on calling him after being snubbed several times. I want to see if I can fix this in any way. I don't see what's so narcissistic about me. Really. I'd appreciate it very much if you could give me a clue.
I'm not suggesting you be an asshole, but you seem to be reluctant to even talk honestly to him for fear that he will 'react badly'. When you get to that point, you know something is not right and you either need to decide to just let him do his thing or talk to him honestly and see what he says. So just tell him honestly what you think/feel already, and see where it goes. Like I said, one way or another you'll learn something.
 
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Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
I'm not suggesting you be an asshole, but you seem to be reluctant to even talk honestly to him for fear that he will 'react badly'. When you get to that point, you know something is not right and you either need to decide to just let him do his thing or talk to him honestly and see what he says. So just tell him honestly what you think/feel already, and see where it goes. Like I said, one way or another you'll learn something.
You are right, Joe. Thanks.
 
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kenlee

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Revolucionar said: His advice was to do something and if it doesn't work, I can tell myself that I tried and can go on with my life without blaming myself. To me, that is entirely incompatible with the Work. This requires external considering, not a way to alleviate my internal considering. Besides, if I failed, I'd lose my brother forever, which is a terrible outcome, not something I could live with just because I can tell myself that I tried.
But you see this is all about you, how you feel so you won't blame yourself. It's just more internal considering which blinds you to the reality of the situation which means seeing reality from the other persons perspective as well. Talking about 'not a way to alleviate your internal considering' is just more internal considering since, once again, it's all about you and how you feel and this inhibits you from seeing things from your brothers perspective which just inhibits you more from acting with 'proper action' with regard to external consideration which means acting in such a way so as to make things easier for both your brother and yourself (even if it may not feel that way). See 'In Search Of The Miraculous' on the subject of internal/external consideration for clarification since your understanding of the subject is somewhat skewed. To fight internal consideration it must be done with external consideration. They go hand in hand and it's about understanding and putting the other person first and yourself last. It takes great control of ourselves along with proper knowledge to do external consideration proper.

Also, trying to force your relationship to be what it formally was is, in my view, violating your brothers free will. He will do what he will do and that's his choice. To try to change him when he doesn't want it is, in a manner of speaking, 'black magic' where from a lower order of reality you are trying to force change something in a higher order of reality and play god even though you may think and feel that you are doing 'good.'
 
His advice was to do something and if it doesn't work, I can tell myself that I tried and can go on with my life without blaming myself. To me, that is entirely incompatible with the Work. This requires external considering, not a way to alleviate my internal considering. Besides, if I failed, I'd lose my brother forever, which is a terrible outcome, not something I could live with just because I can tell myself that I tried.
Yes, he's being an asshole, but that doesn't mean that I have to be one. I'm merely trying to be strategic and be prepared for whatever comes after contacting him. Since I'm coming across as nitpicky, I'll stop. Thanks for the mirror. He doesn't have to be friends with me like before, but I don't want to give him more reason to be the way he is. I mean, I already gave up on calling him after being snubbed several times. I want to see if I can fix this in any way. I don't see what's so narcissistic about me. Really. I'd appreciate it very much if you could give me a clue.
Most of what I thought could be helpful to say has already been addressed, I'll just point to the same theme of kenlee's last post because that's what really stood out to me when reading the thread, it might help saying it in a slightly different manner.

Basically, you've mentioned being externally considerate to your brother a few times, but you could see what you're doing in this regard as exactly, in your terms, "a way to alleviate your internal considering". It's you that want your old brother back into your life. If you fail it's you who couldn't live with it. Regardless of why, he might be fine with not talking to you anymore.

It occurred to me, just as a though exercise of taking it to the extreme, what if you convince him that his girlfriend caused all of this and he leaves her and goes back to your arms, so to say? Would this be good for him and make his life better? Would it address his needs or your needs?

There's a page about internal vs external considering in the CassWiki.

Nonetheless, I completely understand wanting to make peace, suffering from it myself, and I hope you can find a way to have a healthy relationship with your brother.

As if people generally do what's best for them and have relations with people that are good for them. He doesn't know the disdain I have for her. I was always nothing but polite and never showed anything outwardly that would show him or her that I am annoyed and unsure about her motives and intentions.
This might not be true. We may try to hide our likes and dislikes but our unconscious betray us and let it show. And others notice and react accordingly, even if also unconsciously. Disdain is a strong feeling, it's very possible that he, or she, picked up on it.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
That's a great reply. And I can see how I am, in fact, still internally considering. I'm not going to be doing this to force him or trick him in any way, though. I want figure out what's happening and avoid him closing up. Even if he tells me that he doesn't want to see me again, I'd just like to know why. It's difficult to see clearly when it's about something so personal as your relationship with your brother and it's easy to fall back into internal considering. I'm glad I posted this here and I'd like to thank everyone for their input.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
Thanks for that.
About his significant other. I was really always giving her the benefit of the doubt. She IS my brother's choice, after all. Only after all of this, did I start putting things together.
 

Joe

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I want figure out what's happening and avoid him closing up
If you get into trying to second guess him and his possible responses you'll probably tie yourself in knots. You can do nothing better than simply being honest with him. That way you're covered on all bases. If he doesn't respond to your being sincere and honest with them, then there really is nothing more you can do, or even should do.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
If you get into trying to second guess him and his possible responses you'll probably tie yourself in knots. You can do nothing better than simply being honest with him. That way you're covered on all bases. If he doesn't respond to your being sincere and honest with them, then there really is nothing more you can do, or even should do.
That's what I'll do. I guess we'll see how it goes soon enough. No more putting it off.
 

nicklebleu

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Even if he tells me that he doesn't want to see me again, I'd just like to know why.
Even that seems to me to be violating his free will. He doesn’t owe you an explanation. I can totally understand that you would like to get one, but still he doesn’t owe you one. Anyone can walk away from any form of relationship for any reason, whether you like it or not, and whether the reason make sense or not. That’s the essence of free will, in my opinion.
 

Ruth

The Living Force
It is possible that your brother may be acting irrationally because he's not in the best of health, for example his diet, or dietary habits may not be the best. It's his life, so it's his problem to reconcile.

Trouble is that can often make rational thought and communication challenging, especially if a person isn't in a position to see it (or doesn't want to).
 

Mariama

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
That's what I'll do. I guess we'll see how it goes soon enough. No more putting it off.
Recently I found myself in a situation where I was told that I was not objective after relating an incident that had occurred in my immediate surroundings. So as a consequence, I acted under the assumption (some people call it a working hypothesis:-)) that I was completely wrong about what I thought I had observed. Somehow, it took away the sting of the situation and I could act more spontaneously, keeping in mind that my own emotions had led me astray and giving the other party the benefit of the doubt. It truly made a difference, OSIT.
 

Revolucionar

Padawan Learner
Even that seems to me to be violating his free will. He doesn’t owe you an explanation. I can totally understand that you would like to get one, but still he doesn’t owe you one. Anyone can walk away from any form of relationship for any reason, whether you like it or not, and whether the reason make sense or not. That’s the essence of free will, in my opinion.
I don't think he owes me anything, but I would like know. He can do whatever he wants, which I haven't been meddling in ever.
 

Potatoes and Tomatoes

Padawan Learner
Also, it's possible that Z is going to read this, as he might be lurking around here, or maybe even has an account. I hope he does.
This I found interesting. It's as if the thread would act as a mediator for you. If he is lurking or has an account, do you think he would see your post as a genuine seeking of advice, or would he be angry that you've aired the rift to others? Do you think that you used the post as a prompt for him to get in contact? Or as a way of explaining yourself to him via a third party? You seem so reluctant to get in touch with him, I am wondering what you are scared of? I suppose whilst you don't speak, you can pretend that your relationship is just rocky, but if you do speak, maybe the relationship will end for good and you'd rather delay that?
Regarding the text telling him he has become an Uncle (congratulations by the way!)...maybe he felt very put out that you didn't phone? You really only recieved back the effort you invested on that one, imo. I agree with others, make contact, email, phone, letter and be absolutely honest...there's a lot of wasted energy happening and your own family could probably use that energy just now.
 
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