Brazilian elections and Jair Bolsonaro - is he really "a Hitler"?

The point I am trying to make is that, the same people that got Dilma out in 2015, are the same ones getting Lula in on 2021, despite the former being the heir to the latter.

brazilian people are not so volatile and the majority of us are conservatives

I showed you that One Single Minister of supreme court who "gets Lula in" (again), using what was called by Judicial Contortionism

"the people" is revolted and outraged, and Bolsonaro too,
he is friend of people as I tried to demonstrate ethically ..
 

Alejo

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brazilian people are not so volatile and the majority of us are conservatives
Well, this is difficult to determine with exactitude, but regardless Lula seems to be a convenient person to have at the helm now and I don't know if it has anything to do with conservatives vs. liberals, the ideologies do not matter, they're just the mask that they hide behind.
 
Well, this is difficult to determine with exactitude.

please, just look the official map numbers of people "preferences"

525px-2018_Brazilian_presidential_election_map_%28Round_2%29.svg.png
 

Alejo

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I see that, although the point I am trying to make is that the current effort to remove a conservative from power is not purely because he's a conservative. It's because he's an inconvenient leader to have in Brazil, regardless of his ideological inclination. Does that make sense?

If, for instance, Bolsonaro was all for vaccines and lockdowns, to name but one example, Lula might not have gotten out of his criminal cases and Bolsonaro would be allowed to remain in place.

This is why I warn to not look at what is happening purely form the point of view of left vs right. Look at Argentina for instance, a leftist government is allowed to remain without an issue, just as the one from the right is allowed to remain in Colombia. It has nothing to do with their political leaning in this instance.

I think entrenching oneself to either side of the spectrum can do more harm than good, because all the critical thinking goes by the wayside the minute a leader of your preference makes it to power.

I think Bolsonaro should be allowed to rule if he was elected by the majority, not because he's a conservative, but because he was elected, regardless of what I personally think of his character. Also, if there's an effort to get rid of him, I don't know if it has much to do with simply his conservatism, becase these political labels shift quite rapidly.
 
I see that, although the point I am trying to make is that the current effort to remove a conservative from power is not purely because he's a conservative. It's because he's an inconvenient leader to have in Brazil, regardless of his ideological inclination. Does that make sense?

Sure it make sense, but I think partially because Bolsonaro should be much more than inconvenient to Progressists (eufemism for comunist), because he served in the Army during the Military Dictatorship, and belongs to a generation that does not tolerate communism (lol), so he tends to verbally fight all the left policies, in a very reactive way.

In practice it is not quite all that (big mouth) he says literally, because Bolsonaro is very concerned with economic and social issues. The confusions he causes are regarded to not wanting pay the social cost alone, as the country needs an economy more independent of public money, that is, more liberal, otherwise the country will be unable to invest in favor of its own growth, and becomes more dependent of foreign resources.

It must be taken into account that he assumed the country practically broken and he did not let it break until now even with the pandemic, and there is a certain merit in that. The federal govern delivered billions to local governs, and we know that at least US$ 10 bi were deflected by corruption on the locals by opportunists. It's not easy !!

Another aspect that should help in the geo-political understanding of Brazil, is that the country is huge and there are many different foreign cultures mixed (Portuguese, African, Italian, German, Japanese, Arabic, among others) so, anything other than a certain conservatism, causes "political and social" confusion here.

This conservadorism is not just something a political branch, but a natural state of mind for Brazilians to get along well with each other.

Not intended to be accurated, I can say in numbers:

40% of people are conservative (being as Bolsonaro niche)
25% of people are progressist (being as Left, Lula niche)
35% of people are what offer more conveniences (changeable)

So, if Bolsonaro can keep the country economically upright, the Left side have no range to assume the power again, mainly because about 75% of people are aware that the Left has broken the country by diverting money for personal enrichment and to finance a power project for Latin America, and in addition they openly tolerate crime and corruption.

also regard that Bolsonaro is not Saint, he is a professional politician.

BTW, I end this post paraphrasing a unanimity here:

Brazil is not for amateurs. (lol) this really make sense !!
 

Alejo

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And as the writing was on the wall, Lucas Furtado the attorney general in Brazil requested this Friday to remove President Jair Bolsonaro from the administrative and hierarchical functions of the Ministries of Health, Economy and Civil House, to prevent him from intervening in the management of the coronavirus crisis.

Which is what we were discussing, it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue. It's not a conservative or liberal thing, it's obedience and Bolsonaro simply is not, and now they don't even care if he remains the president, he will be removed from managing emergencies in the country that elected him.
 
Lucas Furtado the attorney general in Brazil requested this Friday to remove President Jair Bolsonaro from the administrative and hierarchical functions of the Ministries of Health, Economy and Civil House, to prevent him from intervening in the management of the coronavirus crisis.

correcting-1:
The current general attorney (prosecutor) is " Augusto Aras ", choosed by Bolsonaro and approved by Congress.
the usual name is PGR -- Prosecutor General of Republic, the only one who can Represent Against Bolsonaro.

Vice-Attorney is a bureaucratic hierarchical position, which only works in the absence of the Attorney General.

( .. bellow, Tribunal is equivalent to Court .. )

correcting-2:
TCU (as Tribunal Accounting of Union) has no jurisdiction over presidential government.
Only STF (as Supreme Tribunal of Federation) can judge and sentence federal politicians,
which include all congressists, the president and its ministery, so called Privileged Forum.

TCU checks accounts, not acting preventively under any circumstances.

Legal Contortionism is currently nothing new here in this country. Its Subversion !

correcting-3:
Don't exists Half-President, so it's no possible "impeach" part of the governance.
Even if STF sentence the president, it must be approved by Congress (senators).
Anyway, the final word about president impeachment is dued by Congress.
(not by TCU, neither by STF, althought they can request to open a process).

correcting-4
you said " it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue " but use party/ideololy biase source of info

I ask if you can share infos or support the mainstream media narratives you like ?

I could perfectly explain what "really" is happening in the government actions and behind the scenes, but given the insistence on favoring globalist left narratives sponsored by Foro de São Paulo I just say ... We'll See!
...
 

Lyndi Lama

Padawan Learner
correcting-1:
The current general attorney (prosecutor) is " Augusto Aras ", choosed by Bolsonaro and approved by Congress.
the usual name is PGR -- Prosecutor General of Republic, the only one who can Represent Against Bolsonaro.

Vice-Attorney is a bureaucratic hierarchical position, which only works in the absence of the Attorney General.

( .. bellow, Tribunal is equivalent to Court .. )

correcting-2:
TCU (as Tribunal Accounting of Union) has no jurisdiction over presidential government.
Only STF (as Supreme Tribunal of Federation) can judge and sentence federal politicians,
which include all congressists, the president and its ministery, so called Privileged Forum.

TCU checks accounts, not acting preventively under any circumstances.

Legal Contortionism is currently nothing new here in this country. Its Subversion !

correcting-3:
Don't exists Half-President, so it's no possible "impeach" part of the governance.
Even if STF sentence the president, it must be approved by Congress (senators).
Anyway, the final word about president impeachment is dued by Congress.
(not by TCU, neither by STF, althought they can request to open a process).

correcting-4
you said " it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue " but use party/ideololy biase source of info

I ask if you can share infos or support the mainstream media narratives you like ?

I could perfectly explain what "really" is happening in the government actions and behind the scenes, but given the insistence on favoring globalist left narratives sponsored by Foro de São Paulo I just say ... We'll See!
...
Getting impression that Bolsinaro is a good leader, cares about the country and is actually pretty balanced, but under attack of course.

An aside, NGO's try to take over managing resources based on incorrect info. From studies I read, cattle graze start to finish because the land is suited to raising them. Row crops, GMO ?, soy, corn, much of crop, I remember, is shipped out of the country as it is not needed for the Brazilian cattle. Intentional burning is predominantly needed for row crops not cattle. So the vegetarian push against cattle is wrong-headed. From what I read, contrary to headlines, they are not burning the lungs of the earth in Brazil, though I'm open to learning that corruption may favour development and displacement of indigenous tribes. There was a way worse burning in 2014. I don't recall the reason. There is a rhythm to burning as farmers in the east do burn crops at end of season, also. The burning season is a very, very dry part of the year. Rains usually extinguish fire.

What I actually know further about Brazil fits the head of a pin. Just appreciate Border Dog perspective as Bolsinaro seems strong enough to resist the control narrative, for now anyway.
 
.. under attack of course.

thank you very much, for participating in the discussion with a good eye for the content "infos".

at first, we have another media maneuver orchestrated by the fronts of opposition, which are relatively desperate with the federal money cuts, to which they have become accustomed in previous governments.

at least this journalist (bellow) knows that only Congress supported by the Supreme Court can act against a presidential mandate prerogatives.

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It is necessary to take the power of Bolsonaro

Jair Bolsonaro's sociopathy infected the National Congress and the Supreme Court.

At this moment, in the midst of a sanitary collapse, it is necessary to form a war cabinet that, in practice, removes the powers of the President of the Republic in the fight against the epidemic.

----

being eloquent does not mean being realistic.

who is the sociopath ?
who is infecting the others ?
who can form a federal war cabinet ?
who is the enemies of that supposed war ?

I'm sorry to that, but many brazilians are not so fools.
Bolsonaro is not Saint (but was the least worst option)
 

Alejo

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FOTCM Member
I ask if you can share infos or support the mainstream media narratives you like ?

I could perfectly explain what "really" is happening in the government actions and behind the scenes, but given the insistence on favoring globalist left narratives sponsored by Foro de São Paulo I just say ... We'll See!
I am not sure what you mean by this Border Dog
 
I am not sure what you mean by this Border Dog

the quote you did omitted the context focus

correcting-4
you said " it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue " but use party/ideololy biase source of info

I ask if you can share infos or support the mainstream media narratives you like ?

I could perfectly explain what "really" is happening in the government actions and behind the scenes, but given the insistence on favoring globalist left narratives sponsored by Foro de São Paulo I just say ... We'll See!

BTW, I rephrase the question, to give (again) the benefit of doubt

If one support party/ideology (globalist) biase infos, why this one can say " it's not a party issue nor an ideology issue " ?

----
Notes:

TCU sub-attorney Lucas Rocha Furtado, on first year (2019) of Bolsonaro government "request" to TCU do 45 inspections in the accounts of the presidency and federal autarchies. Of Course, the job of TCU is check "accounts", but in these terms it is pure partisan legal activism, to create confusion and waste of time of Court Accounting

G1 portal, is Big Media, commited with globalism and left-wing activism, which daily publishes biase negative news about current government.
----

I started to post on this thread, because I'm brazilian and I know that Bolsonaro It's not a Hitler.

He is not Saint, but is surely friend of people. If one still have doubts, please watch this yesterday video:

 

Alejo

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Ok I think I understand what you meant, that because I shared an article where an official was calling for Bolsonaro to be removed from certain functions pertaining the virus in Brazil, that I support the globalist agenda? is that it? because of the link I chose to share here? how does that support the notion of me supporting a globalist agenda? I don't understand.

I don't think anyone here is saying that Bolsonaro is hitler, the very idea of this discussion was to address that very question, and I shared the link to show that there's an effort to oust him from power using the narrative that he's an evil man period. Which is beyond wrong, and then I stated that trying to remove him from power had nothing to do with him being a conservative (i.e. not an ideological victory of left vs. right), it has more to do with him being an inconvenient leader of a decently powerful nation, visible in his stance regarding the virus.

If he was obedient, whether left or right wing, they would leave him alone.

Stating that there's a clear effort to remove him from power, isn't the same as supporting said effort. So I think you're perhaps confusing my describing the situation with my support for it, which isn't the case.

And when I try to clarify this, you answer in evasive ways with subtle accusations that are far removed from what is actually being said. Why?
 
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