Castaneda's concepts

stardust

Jedi Master
These last times, i ask many questions about Castaneda's teaching.
If i have no longger these books, i'd like to understand and make relations with C's concepts.
Laura talked about "the predator" before as STS control from 4th density.

So , it seems to me that :

- large movements of assemblage point allow to perceive others dimensions ( = nagual)
- illuminating all the eagle's emanations within the cocoon at once = the Ascencion
- the inorganics = STS - 4th density ? ( they are searching for awarness, and more the warrior is afraid , more they hold on him...)
when they appeared in our world ,Don Juan said they were only projections - it doesn't remember you something?
- when Don Juan ( or Genaro- i don't recall) came back from Ixtlan , he's afraid by the people he met - they're like ghosts : awarness about the organic portals?
- is there any analogy between the luminous worm which are pumping energy and interaction with O.P. ?
-The Eagle : it's difficult for me to see him like 7th Density because the goal of the warrior is to be free from him, and my impression is more that he represents something like the Matrix
-Sorcerers'clan : before sleeping last night , i red again some pages about megaliths'cult in "The secret history of the world" . When i woke up in the middle of the night , i made this strange connexion :
and if the clan's configuration got a similar function with megaliths?

8 women : 2 for east - 2 for north - 2 for west and 2 for south
they are coupled with 1 dreamer and 1 stalker ( opposed and complementary forces like : +/- , moon/sun etc..)
a model of energy generator ?

4 men : the warriors , like Maruts' dancers?

and 1 nagual woman : the shaman -woman , Goddess'representative , the Navigator


well, those are only suppositions but i'd really like to have your opinions!

(i hope i am understandable, i speak a very bad english..., sorry for that!)
 

Pierre

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stardust said:
These last times, i ask many questions about Castaneda's teaching.
If i have no longger these books, i'd like to understand and make relations with C's concepts.
Laura talked about "the predator" before as STS control from 4th density.



(i hope i am understandable, i speak a very bad english..., sorry for that!)
I found it also very interesting to find relations between Castaneda concepts and the Cs concepts.

Globally, I reached connections that are similar to your.

stardust said:
- the inorganics = STS - 4th density ? ( they are searching for awarness, and more the warrior is afraid , more they hold on him...)
when they appeared in our world ,Don Juan said they were only projections - it doesn't remember you something?
Indeed. In "the art of dreaming" Don Juan tells CC that the inorganic beings give some knowledge but in exchange they take what is the most precious : your energy, your freedom.

stardust said:
The Eagle : it's difficult for me to see him like 7th Density because the goal of the warrior is to be free from him, and my impression is more that he represents something like the Matrix
Maybe that the eagle symbolises the transition from the 7th density (the circle - the all potential) to the 6th density (Yin and Yang symbol- the universe through the STO-STS duality). What Gurdjieff describes as the first shock allowing to jump from do to re along the creation otave.

stardust said:
- when Don Juan ( or Genaro- i don't recall) came back from Ixtlan , he's afraid by the people he met - they're like ghosts : awarness about the organic portals?
This event might be similar to what Neo experiences when he enters the woman in red program or what might experience Plato's caveman when going back to his cave.

Somehow those ghosts can be considered as OPs since in the beginning we all are OPs i.e. slaves of our lower centers.

stardust said:
8 women : 2 for east - 2 for north - 2 for west and 2 for south
they are coupled with 1 dreamer and 1 stalker ( opposed and complementary forces like : +/- , moon/sun etc..)
a model of energy generator ?

4 men : the warriors , like Maruts' dancers?

and 1 nagual woman : the shaman -woman , Goddess'representative , the Navigator
From what I remember Don Juan had 9 apprentices. 5 women (including 1 nagual) and 4 men.

It could be pictured like an I ching hexagram . 1 male nagual and 1 female nagual in the middle. 8 apprentices around composing 4 male-female couples.


I hope it can help you research though these are only personal interpretations.

Welcome on board Stardust.
 

stardust

Jedi Master
I was tallking about the Don Juan 's clan (and not Carlos' one) , with Silvio Manuel , Don Genaro , Don Vicente , i dont 'remember all the women but there were Florinda , Delia etc...

Carlos couldn't have a so large clan because of a particularity of his energy ( 3 sides instead of 4 sides like all the others ancients naguals )
But it is interesting to see his own configuration , too...
 

Pierre

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That's right 9 members in CC clan.

Indeed they had slightly different clans made of 4 men warrior
For Don Juan : Vicente, Genaro, Silvio Manuel, Juan Tuman
For Carlos : Nestor, Pablito, Benigno, Eligio

and 4 women warriors for Don Juan : Hermelinda, Zuleica, Nelida, Delia
but 5 women warriors for Carlos : Lidia, Josefina, Rosa, La Gorda, Dona Soledad

Maybe that Carlos had one more member because he hadn't all the required clan leader capacities (the four compartments).

I guess we can reach different numbers because initially some of the members of the future clan (Carlos for example) are apprentices of the initial nagual (Don Juan), also some other apprentices are not part of the final "team".

In "the gift of the eagle" there is a dedicated descrition of the clans (p.239 and following + p.411 in the French version published by Folio). Did you refer to this source ?

So the geometrical setting I proposed could apply to Don Juan clan (Don Juan in the middle). For Carlos there could be two members in the middle in order to constitue a "full" nagual (instead of one male nagual in Don Juan case).

Edit : number of people in the center.
 

stardust

Jedi Master
I only try to remember because I don't have the books anymore ( note : it's a good exercice of Recapitulation , 8 years ago!!! ); I just find a good summary table of Don Juan's team at www.geocities.com/Athens/Rhodes/5418/people.html

But Caroll Tiggs , even if she is the Woman Nagual of Carlos , she must be integrate with Don Juan's team because she leaves with them.

There is Taïsha Abelar , for the new Carlos' team , who is teaching by Clara (? I believe she was from South but i don't see her in Don Juan's team ) Emilito and Florinda.

Well, I 'm just going to read Mouravieff's Gnosis and after i will review Castaneda...

Just a question , Axel : have you try to practice some exercice of Castaneda's teaching?
I must say that the Art of Dreaming have been a long time my bedside book , and i have made near 6 or 7 lucid dreams , and one where i made the exercice with my hands. But It was very hard , and consuming a lot of energy. A big disruption in my life , and i had renounced to all that.
Today, The C's experiment and Laura's books reconnect me to this past. May i have to do something with... ?
 

Pierre

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stardust said:
have you try to practice some exercice of Castaneda's teaching?
You can find some threads about tensegrity and other technics in the three following threads :
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4224.msg31437#msg31437
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3845.msg25152#msg25152
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=524



stardust said:
I must say that the Art of Dreaming have been a long time my bedside book , and i have made near 6 or 7 lucid dreams , and one where i made the exercice with my hands. But It was very hard , and consuming a lot of energy. A big disruption in my life , and i had renounced to all that.
There are also some threads dealing with the art of dreaming
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=4681
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=1363

stardust said:
Today, The C's experiment and Laura's books reconnect me to this past. May i have to do something with... ?
I guess that there are some strong connections/synergies between Laura's and Castaneda's works
predator mind - slavery to the lower centers
moving assembly point - activating center
allies - 4D sts emanations
...

Maybe that Gnosis, your next reading, will clarify those things.
 

Cyre2067

The Living Force
I think its also important to remember that neither the C's nor Castenda are 100% accurate, nor free from corruption, so layering them ontop of one another in an attempt to draw exact parallels might not work. Its kinda like looking at something from two different angles, you'll see some things from one angle you won't see from another and visa versa.

Whats important is taking what you can from each source and testing it out in the real world to see if it gains you any practical advantages.
 

stardust

Jedi Master
I know i can't draw exact parralels , but it's important to see if there is a possible connexion, no?
At the time, i was shocking about the idea of "predator". I wondered how such a fact ( if it were not a hoax) could exist , without nobody talked about, except Castaneda...
 

Alana

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Actually if you read Trapped in the Mirror by Elan Golomb, her concept of the Negative introject resembles what Castaneda meant with Predator's mind in a down to earth way, of what i understand. She describes it as such:

The negative introject is partly the voice of your attacking and restrictive narcissistic parents [added by i: education system, society, religious institutions, etc, the ponerized environment we grew up into] whose thinking took up residence in your mind. It is not rightly a part of yourself but a hostile foreigner that watches you with a critical eye. Little escapes its quest for control. It criticizes you with such comments as "you are a failure" and "why try?" Your feelings of depression strengthen its force. it makes you discard appreciation and distrust affection. Its punitive demands and paralyzing arguments stop you from trying to change.

We want to please this uninvited judge that sounds so much like our narcissistic parents [added by i: education system, society, religious institutions, etc, the ponerized environment we grew up into]. We succumb to its messages, the thoughts that we hate and almost believe. We want to reject such miserable input but lack the foggiest notion of how to do so. We resentfully accept its presence as a fact of life.
 

alwyn

Padawan Learner
Gonna post this here, so curiosity about Castaneda can be alerted. Don Juan died after Carlos Castaneda's first book. The other books that Carlos wrote were pretty much out of his imagination. HE DID NOT JUMP OFF A CLIFF! Please research the name "Kachora", who was Carlos' teacher after Don Juan. Kachora had to spend some time with one of his other apprentices for awhile, going around to different groups, literally saying "if you jump off of a cliff, you will die." This was an imaginary adventure.

The concept of "predator mind" is related by many indiginous tribes, and did not originate with Castaneda. There are useful things in the books, they are stimulating in much the same way that "The DaVinci Code" is; i.e. it is a thought provoking fictional story built around pieces of truth.

The sufis have a saying: "He who is half a doctor can only kill you." "He who is half an imam (sufi religious director) can endanger your soul."

Buyer beware.
 

Ryan

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FOTCM Member
I don't think anyone here is saying Castaneda did jump off a cliff. However, they aren't saying some person named "Kachora" was Carlos' teacher either. What are your sources for this?
 

stardust

Jedi Master
Ryan said:
I don't think anyone here is saying Castaneda did jump off a cliff. However, they aren't saying some person named "Kachora" was Carlos' teacher either. What are your sources for this?
Ryan, if you want have fun, search for "Kachora" and you find something like that:

on _www.starshiplight.com/starnations/StarTribes.htm


As Ligthworkers and Starfleet ground personnel are encoded ( by the language of light) and the direct links in communications are established, the barrier or the blanket of the collective consiousness will be broken. This is the divine plan for reunification. More breaks there are in the limitations imposed by mass consiousness, the more light can enter the planet.

It mean also that the magnetic lines for the Star People to be guided to gather are more clear to see and to follow. Earth changes are to start very soon now. Speakers in Star Knowledge Conferences in the US like Wallace Black Elk warned that the Thunderbeings are going to enter into action to clean the Earth, and Kachora (the"Don Juan" from Castaneda books) has announced the arrival of asteroids. :lol:

Kachora is surely a very good friend of the Ashtar command and others super-saviours of humanity...
 

j0da

Jedi Council Member
Hmmm...what's up with those Natives??

Report On The Star Knowledge Conference
South Dakota, June 12-16,1996

by Richard Boylan, Ph.D.

For ten days in June, the Yankton Sioux Reservation on the windswept high plains of South Dakota was a gathering place for indigenous tribal leaders from around the globe and hundreds of Native and Euro-American listeners. The occasion was the Star Knowledge Conference and Sun Dance, convoked by Lakota (Sioux) spiritual leader Standing Elk in response to a vision. The vision showed that Native American spiritual knowledge about the Star Nations (extraterrestrials) was to be shared. This Conference also fulfilled ancient Hopi and Lakota prophecies. Spiritual shamans from the Plains tribes (Lakota, Oglala, Dakota, Blackfoot, Nakota) were joined by spokespersons from the Eastern (Iroquois, Obeida,Seneca and Choctaw) and Southwest (Hopi, Yaqui and Mayan) tribes. In addition, the chief Maori shaman from New Zealand came from the southen end of the world, as well as a spokeswoman for the Sammi (Laplander) people from above the Arctic Circle. They came because they had seen signs occurring now which had been predicted by ancient prophecies. These signs signified to them that the time had come to speak openly about their most closely-held oral traditions. These traditions include their origin from the stars, the influence of Star People visitors on the formation of their culture and their spiritual beliefs and ceremonies, and the imminent return of these Star Nations.

Unprecedented as this gathering was, further precedent was set when Standing Elk, in a published announcement with apology to all Elders, declared that this sacred knowledge "is to be shared with our brothers of the four directions", (the entire non-Native World). Additionally, he invited world-famous Euro/American experts on extraterrestrials to also speak at this gathering of elders. Among those speaking were such notables as former NATO intelligence Sgt.-Major Bob Dean, Harvard Professor John Mack, MD, author Whitley Strieber, CSETI assistant director Martin Keller, former Acting Finnish Surgeon-General Rauni Kilde, MD, Professor Leo Sprinkle, Ph.D., ET research psychologist Richard Boylan, Ph.D., Professor Courtney Brown, Ph.D., Italian stigmatic-experiencer Giorgio Bongiovanni, German researcher Michael Hesemann, former CIA patranormal operatives Dea Martin and Darrel Sims, contactees Marilyn Carlson and Randolph Winters, and others.

source:http://www.star-knowledge.net/wagner_report.htm
On another page from "star-knowledge" we find Kachora in most revered company of "STAR KNOWLEDGE SPEAKERS":
_http://www.star-knowledge.net/Speakers.html
 

alwyn

Padawan Learner
Ryan said:
I don't think anyone here is saying Castaneda did jump off a cliff. However, they aren't saying some person named "Kachora" was Carlos' teacher either. What are your sources for this?
Aaah, what fun you have when you forget to subscribe to a topic you've posted to. Sorry for the delay.

My source for this is one of Kachora's students. I am sorry, I do not have permission to publish this person's name, but this person grew up and was trained by the elders out at the Hopi Reservation, and then was sent to work with Kachora. This particular shaman stated that Carlos was, back in the day, known for tooling around from tribe to tribe looking for good drugs and psychedelic experiences. He did, eventually, learn some very good tools and knowledge. He also made up lots of stories to sell books.

I hesitated to post this about Carlos, because he has some rabid followers who are very attached to his work, and they love to attack anyone who paints him in less than a favorable light. But consider this! Carlos made mucho mucho money with his books. (I'm remembering one of Laura's posts in another thread about how hard it is to make a living from publishing the truth, what with the reactions of the PTB, so this might be indicitive of how much truth is contained in Carlos' published works.) And his son (yes, he was married, and had a child,[adopted?] although he did not like to publicize this, because it doesn't really fit in with the warrior image, don't you know!) is in a battle for the estate. {see: http://www.mrcranky.com/movies/fullmonty/108/190.html } This is not the hallmark of an authentic fourth way teacher. They take care of their own, especially their family obligations. It is a duty, eh? Also, the damage that can be done to someone in truly trying to follow this way with the "clues" in these books can be quite costly. There is just enough of the truth to hang the whole thing together, and just enough falsehood to keep someone lost for years. We don't have time for this kind of circus.

Re: this link: on www.starshiplight.com/starnations/StarTribes.htm OMG, what a twinkie site. Sorry, Kachora would be horrifed to find his name associated with this. Just because someone uses his name doesn't mean he is associated with said person. Also, as far as I know, the 'star knowledge' is not readily discussed with outsiders, it is considered dangerous knowledge, maybe for reasons that are apparent in this forum.

So, in the interests of a forum dedicated to objective reality, I offer this little piece. And in the interests of full disclosure, I will say that Carlos' books were some of the first ones I read when I started on my path. And no, I am NOT a student of Kachora's.

I will say, however, that I prefer the Sufi's approach. They profit from their day job, not from their spiritual work nor their followers.
 

alwyn

Padawan Learner
stardust said:
Kachora is surely a very good friend of the Ashtar command and others super-saviours of humanity...
Well, if his student's words were any indication, this would not be true, this would be more of a "gag me with a spoon" type of reaction.

Sometimes an authentic teacher will hang out with complete idiots. It doesn't hurt the teacher, and sometimes helps the idiots. <grin>
 
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