Colorado Theater Shooting

redwraith33

The Force is Strong With This One
Was this incident as a result of a typical MK Ultra style programmed killer with the intent to present the typical PRS (Problem, Reaction, Solution) scenario? This question seems especially relevant in light of the upcoming U.N. treaty vote in a week. Timing seems a little suspicious.
 
'Suspicious' ain't the word for it! And, yes, I'd say there is a strong possibility that there was MK-Ultra/Greenbaum techniques used in the Colorado shooting. As for the UN treaty:

http://www.nagr.org/UN_lp_survey2.aspx

I'd say that there's no point in getting worked up about it. If there is some plan afoot to outlaw guns in the US and guns are outlawed, it will make no difference whatsoever to the future that awaits.
 
Perceval said:
'Suspicious' ain't the word for it! And, yes, I'd say there is a strong possibility that there was MK-Ultra/Greenbaum techniques used in the Colorado shooting.

There is a very good article by Laura dated from 2007 that talks about another massacre. And her analysis is astounding. About mind programming.

http://www.sott.net/articles/show/130669-Beware-The-Ides-of-April-Cho-Seung-hui-and-the-Mosaic-Distinction
 
As it happens, we did ask about it at last night's session. Will be posted as soon as it is transcribed.
 
Perceval said:
'Suspicious' ain't the word for it! And, yes, I'd say there is a strong possibility that there was MK-Ultra/Greenbaum techniques used in the Colorado shooting. As for the UN treaty:

http://www.nagr.org/UN_lp_survey2.aspx

I'd say that there's no point in getting worked up about it. If there is some plan afoot to outlaw guns in the US and guns are outlawed, it will make no difference whatsoever to the future that awaits.

Yeh and it's not that they're sincerely interested in reducing gun ownership. After all, they have been deliberately flooding the US with affordable military-grade firearms for decades. The intention is to rile gun owners into a defensive posture and increase gun sales, not decrease them. They need people to get violent to justify the violence they want to inflict and the clampdown to follow.

Cheap Rifle Imports Flood U.S. Market

Wednesday, September 1, 1993

A SEATTLE MAN last weekend fired all 30 rounds from his MAK-90 on a city street while stopping a robber. These assault rifles cost next to nothing, and the People's Republic of China has plenty of them to sell.

They are lethal, legal and cheap.

And for the price - ranging from $80 to $300 - the Soviet-designed, Chinese-made SKS and MAK-90 assault rifles have become top-sellers in the nation's gun market. "You can't beat the price," said Wade Gaughran, owner of a Bellevue gun shop. "In the gun world, $80 is really close to what you would say is nothing."

In the past year, the SKS and MAK-90 have become gun fanciers' weapon du jour, according to gun dealers and importers all over the country. They are outselling more traditional assault rifles, priced at anywhere from $500 to $8,000.

By all accounts, SKS and MAK-90 are not only bargains, but are also reliable and efficient.

"It would be like buying a brand new car that didn't break down for a thousand dollars," Gaughran said.

Like other military-style weapons, the SKS and MAC-90 are designed to fire a lot of high-powered bullets quickly. Although Gaughran sees them as fine target guns (partly because the ammunition is cheaper than most), Cheryl Brolin, spokeswoman for Handgun Control Inc., in Washington, D.C., says they are nothing but killing machines.

"They are designed for war and for nothing but war," she said. "We are the only industrialized nation that is selling these weapons over the counter."

But no matter what side of the gun debate you're on, the popularity of the SKS and the MAK-90 has raised some intriguing issues. One involves the people who are selling them; the other focuses on the way these guns skirt the U.S. ban on imports of other assault weapons.

When a patriotic American buyer plops down hard cash to buy an SKS or a MAK-90, he is supporting the military-industrial complex of the People's Republic of China. The manufacturer and wholesaler of these guns is a Chinese trading company, Norenco, which has loose ties to the People's Liberation Army. Norenco (China North Industries) sells the ammunition for these guns, too.

Experts like China-watcher Wendy Frieman say the Chinese defense establishment is flooding the United States with cheap guns and bullets to obtain hard currency. The dollars they raise will allow them to buy high-tech equipment on the international market, said Frieman, of Science Application International Corp. in Virginia.

Aging arsenal

Frieman says the Chinese, in essence, are selling their aging arsenal to buy computers and other advanced equipment. With it, they will produce, among other things, better weapons, she says.

Guns are not the only thing they sell. NIC International, a Norenco subsidiary located in the warehouse district of Tukwila, sells everything from truck springs to textiles.

No one from the Chinese companies was willing to talk about the gun trade.

Until 1989, the most popular such weapon in the United States was the Chinese-built AK-47, a high-powered rifle that can be retooled into a rapid-firing machine gun. (A fully automatic version of the AK-47 was the weapon used by the North Vietnamese and the Viet Cong during the Vietnam War.)

Having been visible for decades in news clippings from wars around the globe, the AK-47 developed a fan club among military buffs.

Because of some well-publicized shootings, the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms moved to ban the import of certain assault rifles, including the AK-47, in 1989. The regulation listed dozens of specific weapons and also specified the qualities that make these semi-automatic rifles unique - pistol grips or folding stocks, bayonet mountings, and a flash suppressor at the end of the barrel.

But the SKS, a predecessor of the AK-47, has no pistol grip and the bayonet mounting can be sawed off. For that reason, the ATF ban covers only one version of the SKS, a type that has a detachable magazine. Even the importable version of the SKS can be modified, with kits advertised in magazines, to allow it to be used with a detachable 30-round clip.

The MAK-90 is a modified version of the AK-47 that was specifically designed by the Chinese to skirt the ATF ban. Instead of having the AK-47s banned pistol grip, the MAK-90 has a thumb-hole grip, which is very similar in function. The importers removed the flash suppressor and the bayonet mounting.

Thus, the MAK-90 is an AK-47 in sheep's clothing, although Gaughran and other dealers insist that neither the SKS nor the MAK-90 is an assault weapon. Rather, they are "civilian versions of military weapons." Even in the few states that have banned assault-type weapons - California, New Jersey, Hawaii and Connecticut - many versions of the SKS and all types of the MAK-90 are allowed.

Washington does not ban any assault rifles - though Gov. Mike Lowry said yesterday he intends to seek legislation in the 1994 session that would reduce their availability.

According to an ATF estimate, China is exporting to the U.S. roughly 80,000 of the rifles annually.

The walls of Wade's Eastside Gun Shop in the heart of downtown Bellevue are lined with military-style weapons that far outnumber the traditional rifles and shotguns used for hunting. Gaughran's customers, mostly male, mill around, looking mostly at pistols in glass display cases. The one man who showed interest in an SKS did not want to discuss his reasons.

An honored place on wall

Guns that are banned for import occupy an honored place on the wall, and fetch the highest prices. The SKS and the MAK-90 are priced like items in a going-out-of-business sale.

Gun opponents like Brolin fear the SKS and MAK-90 will become assault-rifle versions of the Saturday Night special - inexpensive weapons with much more firepower than the cheap pistols they would supplant. But crime statistics involving the SKS and MAK-90 are very sketchy. According to one ATF statistic, assault weapons make up less than 3 percent of guns owned by Americans but account for 6 percent to 10 percent of those used in crimes. The statistics don't specify which assault weapons were used.

A demented man killed a college professor and a student and wounded four others with an SKS on a college campus in Massachusetts last year.

Last weekend, a 20-year-old Seattle man used his MAK-90 - purchased for target practice - to retaliate against a robber who had threatened him with a knife. He emptied the 30-round magazine of the gun in the air and in the thief's direction. The shots missed, but the man ended up bludgeoning the robber with the stock of the weapon.

There have been other shootings involving the SKS and the MAK-90 or guns like them around the country, but Frank Lee, a firearms expert at the Washington State Patrol lab in Seattle, says he can remember only one SKS coming to his office for crime analysis. By far the most popular weapon with criminals is a concealed pistol, he said.

But fashions change. Gun dealers report, for instance, that a weapon's popularity soars whenever it is shown in a Hollywood movie.

Another factor that makes guns popular is the threat of a ban, says Gaughran. Rumors have it that the SKS and the MAK-90 are on the federal chopping block, which is causing some buyers to flock to them, he said.

"Whenever anyone talks about banning this or that, it increases sales," he said.
 
Kniall said:
Yeh and it's not that they're sincerely interested in reducing gun ownership. After all, they have been deliberately flooding the US with affordable military-grade firearms for decades. The intention is to rile gun owners into a defensive posture and increase gun sales, not decrease them. They need people to get violent to justify the violence they want to inflict and the clampdown to follow.

Or as is outlined in 'The Controversy of Zion', the ptb want global revolution, so that when it's over they can pick up the pieces and start with some new form of control. People don't realise that the 'security forces' are as expendable as civilians to the ptb.

What these 2nd amendment nuts don't get is that if the government wanted to "take away your guns" they would have done it long ago. As Kniall says, they have deliberately allowed the mass arming of American civilians, and are we to suppose that they did that by accident??
 
Take a look at this picture which appears to have been taken from a helicopter or tall building?

We keep hearing that the shooter had an "AR-15 with a 100 round mag" but in this picture, taken at the back door of the theater, there appears to be a standard, military issue M4 with a 30 round mag and a Trijicon ACOG Sight laying on the ground.

564035_3837551411132_351813447_n.jpg
 
On Monday, July 09, 2012 in Oakland, California there was a shooting that took place at the Jack London cinema complex, just six blocks from the main OPD police station.

i don't believe this got much press perhaps more of a local news event, and obviously quite different then the event's in CO.

But i have to wounder if this pre-shooting, was kept low key, considering that if had generated national news, would it have generated a police presents (pushed by the press that love to sensationalize situations like this) at theaters across the nation.

This have may possibly foiled the plans being perpetrated for the events for CO.


Five people shot outside Oakland movie theater
(Video)
_http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/local/east_bay&id=8729269

OAKLAND, Calif. (KGO) -- Oakland police are still looking for the drive-by shooter who injured five people in front of a busy Oakland movie theatre Sunday night. It happened outside the Regal Cinemas on Washington Street at Second, in the Jack London Square area, a district popular with tourists and families.

All five victims are expected to recover. The shootings happened during a busy summer night and there were a lot of witnesses, but police are still having a hard time piecing together what exactly led up to the shooting, in part, because the victims are not cooperating with investigators.

According to a witness, the shooting started just as young people gathered near the front of the theater for the next showing of the new Spiderman movie. "A bunch of kids out here playing, just waiting to go to the movies, I guess to see Spiderman, and a car pulled and just started shooting," witness Rodric Stanley told ABC7.

Five young people were shot, ages 15 to 23, four males and one female. None has life-threatening injuries. "What we do know at this time is there appears to have been two groups. The groups were involved in some type of altercation. During that altercation, one of the individuals in the group shot five of the other people," said Ofc. Johnna Watson. The shooter is described as a young male with a handgun. It's not certain if he got away on foot or jumped into a car.
The Regal Cinemas is just off Jack London Square, a part of town where there's normally very little violence. "There were people, a lot of young kids running this way up the street. They locked the door to secure the customers inside," recalled Dorcia White, general manager of Everett and Jones, a restaurant that's been near Jack London Square for 14 years. "I'm going to say it's still safe to come down here at night. It's a beautiful place, the waterfront. It's a beautiful location to be in. I don't think families should feel unsafe. I think it was just a one-time incident. "
 
c.a. said:
On Monday, July 09, 2012 in Oakland, California there was a shooting that took place at the Jack London c complex, just six blocks from the main OPD police station.

i don't believe this got much press perhaps more of a local news event, and obviously quite different then the event's in CO.

But i have to wounder if this pre-shooting, was kept low key, considering that if had generated national news, would it have generated a police presents (pushed by the press that love to sensationalize situations like this) at theaters across the nation.

This have may possibly foiled the plans being perpetrated for the events for CO.

I think you're stretching to make any connection there at all. Drive by shootings are very, very common (unfortunately) - especially in Oakland.

Having a gunman actually enter a theatre where people are basically trapped like fish in a barrel is very different.
 
anart said:
c.a. said:
On Monday, July 09, 2012 in Oakland, California there was a shooting that took place at the Jack London c complex, just six blocks from the main OPD police station.

i don't believe this got much press perhaps more of a local news event, and obviously quite different then the event's in CO.

But i have to wounder if this pre-shooting, was kept low key, considering that if had generated national news, would it have generated a police presents (pushed by the press that love to sensationalize situations like this) at theaters across the nation.

This have may possibly foiled the plans being perpetrated for the events for CO.

I think you're stretching to make any connection there at all. Drive by shootings are very, very common (unfortunately) - especially in Oakland.

Having a gunman actually enter a theatre where people are basically trapped like fish in a barrel is very different.

I agree with Anart. Oakland is a very violent area.

_http://www.cityrating.com/crime-statistics/california/oakland.html_
 
anart said:
c.a. said:
On Monday, July 09, 2012 in Oakland, California there was a shooting that took place at the Jack London c complex, just six blocks from the main OPD police station.

i don't believe this got much press perhaps more of a local news event, and obviously quite different then the event's in CO.

But i have to wounder if this pre-shooting, was kept low key, considering that if had generated national news, would it have generated a police presents (pushed by the press that love to sensationalize situations like this) at theaters across the nation.

This have may possibly foiled the plans being perpetrated for the events for CO.

I think you're stretching to make any connection there at all. Drive by shootings are very, very common (unfortunately) - especially in Oakland.

Having a gunman actually enter a theatre where people are basically trapped like fish in a barrel is very different.

Yes i agree, anart, and it is nothing like what happen in Co. But i just wondered as theater operates must pass this information to each other (the chains) to make sure that nothing hurts ticket sales, so hiring security guards is quite common now. And the area of the CO. shootings was in what was stated as a very rough neighborhood, and a gun free zone.

So where were they, or who were they if they did not respond to the situation?
 
c.a. said:
Yes i agree, anart, and it is nothing like what happen in Co. But i just wondered as theater operates must pass this information to each other (the chains) to make sure that nothing hurts ticket sales, so hiring security guards is quite common now.

Every theatre I've ever entered in the states has had security guards, so I think that's normal. The drive by shooting had nothing to do with the theatre, so I doubt the chains had to alert each other - it was a drive-by. Any crowd would have been a target so I don't see why you're focusing so much on it being a theatre other than trying to build a connection where one doesn't exist.

ca said:
And the area of the CO. shootings was in what was stated as a very rough neighborhood, and a gun free zone.

Compared to Oakland, that section of CO is like Disneyland.

ca said:
So where were they, or who were they if they did not respond to the situation?

I don't at all understand your question.
 
Ok i understand. Thanks, much appreciated.

As far as the last question, there was a report that there were security, or police in the lobby when the theater opened.

And Oakland is a kill zone, having been a former resident, (having been employed in the mean streets off and on), of oaktown three quarters my life, nothing has changed, and the continued escalating violence grows dangerously out control daily.

:offtopic:
Popped In Oakland Part 2: The Follow Up- Strong Language, may be offensive
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vv-arP2ZihI&feature=autoplay&list=PL2DF97CD955E04C57&playnext=1

Employment opportunity's, Zero
Food quality choices, ( liquor stores, and fast food) practically non existent.
Racialism in Oakland, prevalent and wide spread.
Solution to the problem, never seems to find resolve.
Access to guns, and drugs, endless.
Access to a equal opportunity for basic education, laughable, compared to others.
Quality of life, like being in Saigon, (my feelings).

The American Drug War is A Huge Failure!
_http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=FPa9K5vO-YI&NR=1
 
c.a. said:
Ok i understand. Thanks.

As far as the last question, there was a report that there were security, or police in the lobby when the theater opened.

The CO theatre? Yes, as I mentioned, that's not at all unusual.
 
Guardian said:
Take a look at this picture which appears to have been taken from a helicopter or tall building?

We keep hearing that the shooter had an "AR-15 with a 100 round mag" but in this picture, taken at the back door of the theater, there appears to be a standard, military issue M4 with a 30 round mag and a Trijicon ACOG Sight laying on the ground.

I believe you are correct about the weapon shown. When I first saw the photo I thought it might be one of the police department's rifles. They have military weapons these days. But this one appears to have an evidence tag on it.

Definitely doesn't fit the MSM story.

Mac
 

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