Confession

Explorer

Jedi
Well, I figure its about time I came out with it.

I'm Timey, the banned guy who racked up 12 pages of replies in the Swamp with no progress, stuck going in circles, feeding off of people's sympathy and support without actually making any real effort to move forward.

I was banned after posting about a fight I got into, which was a final stage in a hard downward spiral I had gotten myself stuck into. Anart, along with some others, told me the score, and I realized that being here as I was was actually harmful to me and probably to others. It was a voluntary ban.

I started to sort myself out a bit, and as I did I realized I couldn't really do it without the material and support offered here.

The problem is that I crystallized on terrible foundations, and was actually getting zapped pretty hard without really realizing. I think I still am.

I was always going to come out with the truth, and since I've started participating more I think now is when I should.

If you guys will have me, I'd like to stay.

I'm sorry for the deception.
 

MakeEmTalk

The Force is Strong With This One
Having been in that predicament, I can tell you that the productive part of life is the storm before the calm, (before another storm ;)).

Good luck to you, & keep 'better' as your goal.
 

irjo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Explorer I think if you are sincere, have good intentions and be open to comments! then its ok to have a second opportunity! also I see that you are recognizing a little bit what is part of the problem you had/have, that's a good start! welcome back! :)
 

ggen

Jedi Master
You agreed to a voluntary ban on January 2nd, 2013, but created your Explorer account just 10 days later? When you mention the 12 page thread where you "went in circles", do you mean the 21 page thread "Disregarding Free Will and Thinking Myself A Profet"?

Your newest Swamp thread is 12 pages long and has striking similarities to your last one.

What if anything have you learned? Do you have any idea of all the time and effort it took for the Forum members to respond to 33 pages of issues that are 'all about you'? I've read them all and they are filled with ideas, encouragement, and compassion. Have you read through them all? Twice? Three times? ALL meaning the 21 pages under your name Timey, and 12 under Explorer.

IMO, I see little to no change. There is however, much complaining and overall attention seeking. Also, bitterness when your "guide" wansn't seen in the way you wished.

How could you have learned or changed anything about yourself in 10 days anyway?

I've watched this Forum allow second chances. Typically it's for those who show themselves to be sincere and WILLing to take a hard look at themselves and then utilize the tools here.

I saw in another thread you had your hands on INSOTM. Anything resonating?
 

Explorer

Jedi
BrightLight11 said:
You agreed to a voluntary ban on January 2nd, 2013, but created your Explorer account just 10 days later? When you mention the 12 page thread where you "went in circles", do you mean the 21 page thread "Disregarding Free Will and Thinking Myself A Profet"?

Your newest Swamp thread is 12 pages long and has striking similarities to your last one.

What if anything have you learned? Do you have any idea of all the time and effort it took for the Forum members to respond to 33 pages of issues that are 'all about you'? I've read them all and they are filled with ideas, encouragement, and compassion. Have you read through them all? Twice? Three times? ALL meaning the 21 pages under your name Timey, and 12 under Explorer.

IMO, I see little to no change. There is however, much complaining and overall attention seeking. Also, bitterness when your "guide" wansn't seen in the way you wished.

How could you have learned or changed anything about yourself in 10 days anyway?

I've watched this Forum allow second chances. Typically it's for those who show themselves to be sincere and WILLing to take a hard look at themselves and then utilize the tools here.

I saw in another thread you had your hands on INSOTM. Anything resonating?
I would disagree. I've gotten a better grasp of why I think and feel the way I do and how this influences my actions. If you read my thread in the swamp you will see this. The reason that thread has so many replies (twelve pages) is because a lot of discussion went on, the topic drifting into the metaphysical nature of human sexuality, and eventually became merged with the guide you mentioned.

I've actually started DOing as opposed to flailing my arms around as I run in circles; I've got an exercise regime, I've decided what I'm going to do in the future (university studying English Literature and Creative Writing), and I was doing EE frequently until I fell off the wagon. Basically, I've got somewhat more direction.

I have a right to complain, and you are right about the attention seeking to a degree - I have traits of narcissism - but I attempt to keep it under control; I don't realize I'm doing it until I look back. I assume your talking about the moan I had about splitting?

When I made this account my original intention was to use it to post progress in the EE thread and the Swamp as well as to ask questions; it was a slow process, and I didn't really become that active until a few months down the road. I thought I could demonstrate my willingness to Work. I didn't really become active until I finished psychoanalysis.


No, I haven't looked through the Timey thread recently. I will.

You're damn straight I was angry when my guide wasn't received the way I expected it to be. I've got a program that mistakes everything as an attack, and I spent a lot of time on it. Plus, I nearly got banned for it when a senior admin had actually given me the go-ahead (they misunderstood what I intended.) They had actually asked me to do it in order to help someone. Wouldn't you be angry?

Why put guide in quotes? You think you could do a better job?
 

Alada

The Living Force
Explorer said:
I would disagree. I've gotten a better grasp of why I think and feel the way I do and how this influences my actions. If you read my thread in the swamp you will see this. The reason that thread has so many replies (twelve pages) is because a lot of discussion went on, the topic drifting into the metaphysical nature of human sexuality, and eventually became merged with the guide you mentioned.

I've actually started DOing as opposed to flailing my arms around as I run in circles; I've got an exercise regime, I've decided what I'm going to do in the future (university studying English Literature and Creative Writing), and I was doing EE frequently until I fell off the wagon. Basically, I've got somewhat more direction.

I have a right to complain, and you are right about the attention seeking to a degree - I have traits of narcissism - but I attempt to keep it under control; I don't realize I'm doing it until I look back. I assume your talking about the moan I had about splitting?

When I made this account my original intention was to use it to post progress in the EE thread and the Swamp as well as to ask questions; it was a slow process, and I didn't really become that active until a few months down the road. I thought I could demonstrate my willingness to Work. I didn't really become active until I finished psychoanalysis.


No, I haven't looked through the Timey thread recently. I will.

You're damn straight I was angry when my guide wasn't received the way I expected it to be. I've got a program that mistakes everything as an attack, and I spent a lot of time on it. Plus, I nearly got banned for it when a senior admin had actually given me the go-ahead (they misunderstood what I intended.) They had actually asked me to do it in order to help someone. Wouldn't you be angry?

Why put guide in quotes? You think you could do a better job?
BrightLight11 has raised some very good points, which you have either ignored or sought to excuse and justify to yourself/others.

Beside the fact that you haven’t answered the questions, the tone of your reply ends in an aggressive, argumentative, childish way.

So even though you “would disagree” with there being ‘little to no change’, your post above would seem to suggest otherwise.

Perhaps you should re-read the questions, take some time to stop think about them properly from every side before responding. Rather than just replying mechanically in order to justify yourself.
 

Nienna

SuperModerator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
Alada said:
BrightLight11 has raised some very good points, which you have either ignored or sought to excuse and justify to yourself/others.

Beside the fact that you haven’t answered the questions, the tone of your reply ends in an aggressive, argumentative, childish way.

So even though you “would disagree” with there being ‘little to no change’, your post above would seem to suggest otherwise.

Perhaps you should re-read the questions, take some time to stop think about them properly from every side before responding. Rather than just replying mechanically in order to justify yourself.
I totally agree with this. You are coming across as rude and aggressive and with a right man syndrome flavor to it. Has that much actually changed, or have you developed a better mask? Have your questioned yourself at all and tried to see if what BrightLight11 has said is actually true?
 

Menna

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
If you have cristalized on the wrong foundation that means your thinking actions are not correct are harmful to you. You cant change the way you think with the way you think is a quote that is used on here. Recognizing this is a great thing and one of many steps forward. It will take alot of work to break old thinking patterns and habbits in a journey and life long one. You say you have crystilized on the wrong foundation recognize this feeling what it is like to crystalize on a wrong foundation so 3-4-5-12 years from now it doesnt happen again because you are now aware of what it feels like. This post to me seems like a first step but many take first steps only to never walk again. Best of luck on your journey.
 

Laura

Administrator
Administrator
Moderator
FOTCM Member
I think ya'll might want to check Gurdjieff's description of what it is to "crystallize on a wrong foundation."
 

Menna

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Per my understanding its the struggle between yes and no and during this struggle settling for a certain way of thinking and this thinking then dictates actions and you live like this until you recognize and do the work to un crystallize...I could very well be wrong or missing a part if so please educate me
 

Zadius Sky

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
Menna said:
Per my understanding its the struggle between yes and no and during this struggle settling for a certain way of thinking and this thinking then dictates actions and you live like this until you recognize and do the work to un crystallize...I could very well be wrong or missing a part if so please educate me
I think you got that right. Here's what G said on the "wrong foundation" (ISOTM, pg. 39, pdf):

But crystallization is possible on a right foundation and it is possible on a wrong foundation. 'Friction,' the struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' can easily take place on a wrong foundation. For instance, a fanatical belief in some or other idea, or the 'fear of sin,' can evoke a terribly intense struggle between 'yes' and 'no,' and a man may crystallize on these foundations. But this would be a wrong, incomplete crystallization. Such a man will not possess the possibility of further development. In order to make further development possible he must be melted down again, and this can be accomplished only through terrible suffering.

"Crystallization is possible on any foundation. Take for example a brigand, a really good, genuine brigand. I knew such brigands in the Caucasus. He will stand with a rifle behind a stone by the roadside for eight hours without stirring. Could you do this? All the time, mind you, a struggle is going on in him. He is thirsty and hot, and flies are biting him; but he stands still. Another is a monk; he is afraid of the devil; all night long he beats his head on the floor and prays. Thus crystallization is achieved. In such ways people can generate in themselves an enormous inner strength; they can endure torture; they can get what they want. This means that there is now in them something solid, something permanent. Such people can become immortal. But what is the good of it? A man of this kind becomes an 'immortal thing,' although a certain amount of consciousness is sometimes preserved in him. But even this, it must be remembered, occurs very rarely."
 

obyvatel

The Living Force
Menna said:
Per my understanding its the struggle between yes and no and during this struggle settling for a certain way of thinking and this thinking then dictates actions and you live like this until you recognize and do the work to un crystallize...I could very well be wrong or missing a part if so please educate me
Crystallization - on right or wrong foundations - is not a common occurrence at least in the sense Gurdjieff used the term. When someone has "crystallized" , he has will and the power to "do" to an extent. He is not at the mercy of external circumstances and a reaction machine like most of humanity. This state is a result of intense efforts and does not just happen. So using this term crystallization on wrong foundation loosely could be related to self-importance and sleep - kind of like sheep dreaming to be magicians in the evil magician tale.

Mouravieff used the term "lumps" being formed in the iron filing analogy of the inner world of man in Gnosis volume 1. This could be due to certain hereditary or cultural factors from what I can recollect. Such small lump formation or very localized crystallization may be closer to what you are referring to rather than large scale crystallization. This is my current understanding fwiw.
 

EmeraldHope

The Living Force
obyvatel said:
Menna said:
Per my understanding its the struggle between yes and no and during this struggle settling for a certain way of thinking and this thinking then dictates actions and you live like this until you recognize and do the work to un crystallize...I could very well be wrong or missing a part if so please educate me
Crystallization - on right or wrong foundations - is not a common occurrence at least in the sense Gurdjieff used the term. When someone has "crystallized" , he has will and the power to "do" to an extent. He is not at the mercy of external circumstances and a reaction machine like most of humanity. This state is a result of intense efforts and does not just happen. So using this term crystallization on wrong foundation loosely could be related to self-importance and sleep - kind of like sheep dreaming to be magicians in the evil magician tale.

Mouravieff used the term "lumps" being formed in the iron filing analogy of the inner world of man in Gnosis volume 1. This could be due to certain hereditary or cultural factors from what I can recollect. Such small lump formation or very localized crystallization may be closer to what you are referring to rather than large scale crystallization. This is my current understanding fwiw.
I have spent a lot of time taking work concepts and translating them into scientific concepts and processes as of late, and this would make sense to me here in this regard, as far as the lumps go.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystallization

The crystallization process consists of two major events, nucleation and crystal growth. Nucleation is the step where the solute molecules dispersed in the solvent start to gather into clusters, on the nanometer scale (elevating solute concentration in a small region), that become stable under the current operating conditions. These stable clusters constitute the nuclei. However, when the clusters are not stable, they redissolve. Therefore, the clusters need to reach a critical size in order to become stable nuclei. Such critical size is dictated by the operating conditions (temperature, supersaturation, etc.). It is at the stage of nucleation that the atoms arrange in a defined and periodic manner that defines the crystal structure — note that "crystal structure" is a special term that refers to the relative arrangement of the atoms, not the macroscopic properties of the crystal (size and shape), although those are a result of the internal crystal structure.

The crystal growth is the subsequent growth of the nuclei that succeed in achieving the critical cluster size. Nucleation and growth continue to occur simultaneously while the supersaturation exists. Supersaturation is the driving force of the crystallization, hence the rate of nucleation and growth is driven by the existing supersaturation in the solution. Depending upon the conditions, either nucleation or growth may be predominant over the other, and as a result, crystals with different sizes and shapes are obtained (control of crystal size and shape constitutes one of the main challenges in industrial manufacturing, such as for pharmaceuticals). Once the supersaturation is exhausted, the solid–liquid system reaches equilibrium and the crystallization is complete, unless the operating conditions are modified from equilibrium so as to supersaturate the solution again.

Many compounds have the ability to crystallize with different crystal structures, a phenomenon called polymorphism. Each polymorph is in fact a different thermodynamic solid state and crystal polymorphs of the same compound exhibit different physical properties, such as dissolution rate, shape (angles between facets and facet growth rates), melting point, etc. For this reason, polymorphism is of major importance in industrial manufacture of crystalline products
It seems to me in my experience, at a major point, ( supersaturation?) it becomes almost impossible to merely respond from a like/dislike or pleasure/pain yes/no perspective. It can happen on a limited subjective foundation or an open objective one, which would be perhaps what is meant by right/wrong in that context. FWIW at the moment.
 

Explorer

Jedi
No, you're all right. Quick Google of right man syndrome seems to fit me nicely.

I'm a narcissist, aren't I?
 
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